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lightscape
12-05-2015, 03:57 AM
Wonder if all their software is phoning home and sending sensitive info.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1325823

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1151366&page=1&pp=15

Big brother is watching :D

50one
12-05-2015, 04:24 AM
Well, if someone's dumb enough to run a pirated copy that connects to the Internet then I suppose they should pay the fee.
To me it sounds like they're going after people who use their software in commercial environment, rightly so. If you make money with it then just pay the fee and don;t make an *** out of yourself...

Kaptive
12-05-2015, 07:07 AM
Staying legit is actually one of the reasons I like Lightwave. The upgrade cost is very reasonable, and even in a bad year I can still stay licensed. Autodesk are plain greedy. Adobe also are greedy, though I sub to them out of necessity. But when you start playing with big boys toys, then yes, you'd best be careful if you decide to flaunt the rules. Them checking on you is undoubtedly in the EULA agreement, so that guy brought it on himself really.

I do have sympathy for his situation, but they do have educational licenses (though they should really just make them free... though I just noticed they have NUKE Non-commercial... which IS free) if that was his true intention.


Anyway, this will cost me a lot of money. They're talking about my "studio" but I don't even have one and I never made any money from my work, It's only for personal use and I never heard of a student or anything like that having this kind of issue.

When he says the following... it kind of sounds like actually he is trying to make money in that field of work...

But still, I've worked in some studios that were using pirated product whithout having any issue for years (including Foundry products), that were making money with them, so I never thought for one second that it could happen to me.

I must be the most unlucky guy on earth right now =/

If however he is making money from it though, then owning the software is a running cost. You get your tax back on it too. But if the value of the work that you are doing doesn't warrant such powerful software, then you really need to look at keeping it realistic and starting with something more cost effective... like After-Effects etc.

You need to be a decent size studio, or have a lot of guaranteed work to be using the likes of Nuke etc. It certainly isn't the kind of software you choose when you are setting up a business on your own. Big Brother is sadly a part of the modern age and it has to be expected (even if it is a nasty aspect of it). It is only going to get more intrusive, so gone are the days when studios can run on hooky copies of software... and I have seen a lot in the last couple of decades. The bigger the company, the less sympathetic they will be.

The best thing that guy can do is to tell The Foudry that he is broke, and hope that the legal costs of them trying to recover what they are asking for is more costly than just dropping it (because they wont recover it)... not to mention telling them that he has uninstalled all the software and wil no longer be using it.

Markc
12-05-2015, 08:10 AM
This is why when I was looking for a 'Nodal' replacement for Shake, I went for Fusion.
Even though the personal edition of Nuke came out first for the Mac, I was prepared to wait a bit longer for Fusion.
I thought there was no point installing Nuke, because no way would I pay their crazy prices for a license, if I needed to do some commercial work.
Even the Studio version of Fusion is a fantastic price.

erikals
12-05-2015, 08:42 AM
Great, another idiotic company!

AutoDesk
Adobe
Foundry


sticking to LightWave / Houdini

50one
12-05-2015, 08:50 AM
Great, another idiotic company!

AutoDesk
Adobe
Foundry


sticking to LightWave / Houdini

Yup! what an arseholes for trying to prevent people from stealing their software! Bastards!

erikals
12-05-2015, 09:47 AM
it's about how it's done, AutoDesk for example encouraged students to use piracy versions

Foundry with a 20000€ lawsuit however... (!)

50one
12-05-2015, 10:32 AM
it's about how it's done, AutoDesk for example encouraged students to use piracy versions

Foundry with a 20000€ lawsuit however... (!)


Sorry, was just looking at my BS meter as it was flashing red. How exactly is ADSK encouraging students to use pirated software. Please post any links that would prove this.

First you put Adsk and foundry in 'idiotic' basket, just to say in next Post that ADSK does the 'licence compliance" op in a better way.

roboman
12-05-2015, 10:39 AM
Autodesk encouraged students to use pirated software? I know they gave away student copies and then went after the students, if they made money with the software. If I was trying to make a living with cg, I would probably be pissed at all the 'studios' where the person lists that they use every piece of software there is, they only list one middle of the road computer and the demo reel includes sample scenes that came with the softwares :) Guess if it pissed me off enough I could have turned them in to the several companies whose softwares they were using..... Guessing that's what most often happens, when people get caught.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-05-2015, 12:01 PM
In school way back when the Autodesk reps tactfully encouraged students to pirate. Newtek had a well established academic program at the time. Purchased an educational seat of Lightwave 5.5 for $750 and upgraded to commercial for the upgrade price after graduation. Awesome value in an era where 3D software was insanely expensive.

shrox
12-05-2015, 12:42 PM
If they are asking for a investigation fee, sounds like a scam.

50one
12-05-2015, 02:46 PM
If they are asking for a investigation fee, sounds like a scam.

How does scammer knows about the no of licenses, MAC address and his email? I've heard similar story from legitimate user with borked nuke lic.

shrox
12-05-2015, 02:51 PM
How does scammer knows about the no of licenses, MAC address and his email? I've heard similar story from legitimate user with borked nuke lic.

I wouldn't pay to have myself investigated.

50one
12-05-2015, 03:10 PM
If there's anyone there being so much dumb that he get caught using illegal software then he should pay lol

Cageman
12-05-2015, 04:19 PM
Sorry, was just looking at my BS meter as it was flashing red. How exactly is ADSK encouraging students to use pirated software. Please post any links that would prove this..

Autodesk didn't do that, but they did brag about that 3DS Max was the most pirated 3DCC app some years ago. Not as an intention to tell people to pirate it, but more of a hint towards the popularity of the software.

No links though, but that is how I remember it...

Cageman
12-05-2015, 04:22 PM
If there's anyone there being so much dumb that he get caught using illegal software then he should pay lol

Wow...

Ok, so, lets say you are a suspect of a crime. You will have to pay for ALL the costs regarding the investigation, wether or not your are guilty or not.

Maybe I missunderstand you here, but that is, essentially what you say.

50one
12-05-2015, 04:29 PM
Wow...

Ok, so, lets say you are a suspect of a crime. You will have to pay for ALL the costs regarding the investigation, wether or not your are guilty or not.

Maybe I missunderstand you here, but that is, essentially what you say.

Dude was caught red handed, admitted to using illegal soft even mentioned past employers doing it - so he thought "no one would care"

He's not a suspect, he's a moron.

Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here.

erikals
12-05-2015, 04:40 PM
Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here

so, according to you, Guilty until proven Innocent.

Good to know where you stand.

Cageman
12-05-2015, 04:57 PM
Dude was caught red handed, admitted to using illegal soft even mentioned past employers doing it - so he thought "no one would care"

He's not a suspect, he's a moron.

Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here.

Read through BOTH threads that were linked before saying anything else. Please... do that, and you will notice that something is off with their system.

- - - Updated - - -


Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here.

Uhm... are you _serious_, or are you just trolling?

Cageman
12-05-2015, 05:01 PM
Dude was caught red handed, admitted to using illegal soft even mentioned past employers doing it - so he thought "no one would care"

He's not a suspect, he's a moron.

Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here.

Let me tell you this then... because we are using Nuke in the studio....

Sometimes we get this popup window telling us that we do not have a license to use it, even though we have.

It's like this...

Working on the project, suddenly, "You do not have a license" pops up, close it... wait for a second, all things sorted... *repeat*

So, are you _absolutely_ 100% sure that their system is working correctly?

c.1
12-05-2015, 08:37 PM
Call me naive or maybe just a moral person but I pay for everything I use. Software, plugins, updates, os....you name it.
I know too may douchebags scamming "the system" to feel like it is a good thing for me to do.
If you have ever been "burned" by someone I think you may agree.

RebelHill
12-05-2015, 08:59 PM
admitted to using illegal soft even mentioned past employers doing it - so he thought "no one would care"... Innocent until proven guilty don't apply here.

It certainly does apply... the particular though is that his guilt is clearly established by his own confession.

lightscape
12-05-2015, 09:26 PM
Issues with the way its handled.

Your email is included with a bunch of other peoples email in the address to. What if you were wrongfully accused?
Phoning home from you computer with data that you have no idea what is in there
Paying to be investigated. Lol

shrox
12-05-2015, 09:43 PM
Issues with the way its handled.

Your email is included with a bunch of other peoples email in the address to. What if you were wrongfully accused?
Phoning home from you computer with data that you have no idea what is in there
Paying to be investigated. Lol

Yes, it's phishy.

c.1
12-05-2015, 09:50 PM
To me it screams " scam-a-lam-a-ding-dong " unless it came from a Nigerian prince then it's totally legit

lightscape
12-06-2015, 03:30 AM
To me it screams " scam-a-lam-a-ding-dong " unless it came from a Nigerian prince then it's totally legit

But its not a scam. Read the cgtalk 2nd thread.

c.1
12-06-2015, 05:34 AM
I read the 2nd thread and still say "scam-balaya".
It shows all of the signs:
-multiple addresses on the email
-pay now and we will reduce the cost
-poor english
-negative options, if you phone The Foundry directly (which is the only way to ensure that the email is valid) then you are admitting to running pirated software and making yourself liable

I would just request an itemized bill be sent (an actual hard copy) to my address ( they should have it if they are requesting a large payment ) with the return address to which payment should be sent. All very old school but it works.

50one
12-06-2015, 06:41 AM
The word is out, Foundry is watching you masturbate.

Kaptive
12-06-2015, 07:47 AM
The word is out, Foundry is watching you masturbate.

If they aren't careful, they'll all go blind! :P

c.1
12-06-2015, 08:36 AM
The word is out, Foundry is watching you masturbate.

And I thought is was only my cat, now I just feel dirty.

Luc_Feri
12-06-2015, 09:37 AM
Wel maybe that's why Foundry use 'Bonjour'. Hello what have we got here now. :D

I wish the foundry would put more effort into trying to retain customers and give us a proper means to update our maintenance securely rather the current .pdf email tripe or over the phone. I've been out of maintenance for the last two years with my Mari license due to this. They told me two years ago, we're working on it, soon, telling everyone else on the forums plenty of times, we're working on it.

50one
12-06-2015, 12:31 PM
^yup, it's funny that a small company Lux had a normal payment gateway on their website, while with Foundry is sending scans with my credit card details over the network, it's like it's 1999 again lol.

lightscape
12-06-2015, 05:46 PM
I read the 2nd thread and still say "scam-balaya".


There were atleast 2 users there that had their company audited and had similar ways of getting a warning from the Foundry.

The first thread even mentioned the person involved.

Beth Castle
Licence Compliance Investigator
The Foundry
5 Golden Square
London
W1F 9HT
Direct Tel: +44 (0) 2074794359
UK Office Tel: +44(0) 2074794350
Web: www.thefoundry.co.uk
The Foundry Visionmongers Ltd.
Registered in England and Wales No: 4642027


And the Foundry has neither confirmed nor denied they are sending scam like email.
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=4&t=117919

Wouldn't they want to tell users its a scam if its a scam to protect them from the scam? :D
But they don't because they are doing it themselves.

shrox
12-06-2015, 06:36 PM
There were atleast 2 users there that had their company audited and had similar ways of getting a warning from the Foundry.

The first thread even mentioned the person involved.

Beth Castle
Licence Compliance Investigator
The Foundry
5 Golden Square
London
W1F 9HT
Direct Tel: +44 (0) 2074794359
UK Office Tel: +44(0) 2074794350
Web: www.thefoundry.co.uk
The Foundry Visionmongers Ltd.
Registered in England and Wales No: 4642027


And the Foundry has neither confirmed nor denied they are sending scam like email.
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=4&t=117919

Wouldn't they want to tell users its a scam if its a scam to protect them from the scam? :D
But they don't because they are doing it themselves.

If it's legit, the multiple emails is a sloppy and unprofessional manner to do that in.

Megalodon2.0
12-06-2015, 08:27 PM
If it's legit, the multiple emails is a sloppy and unprofessional manner to do that in.

Spot on. VERY unprofessional.

50one
12-07-2015, 02:56 AM
Spot on. VERY unprofessional.

Yup, they should send very polite letter using traditional means of a tuxedo wearing messenger and politely ask the pirate to stop using the software of face the consequences.

Beth Castle do work in Foundry as compliance investigator and since they're not denying it...

Y'all can believe this is scam but somehow they're contacting people with no licensees or borked ones( as in the license server stopped/got corrupted for some reason) and since they know the license details and few other things that only Foundry could know it's hard to believe that some random dude is sending email to random people knowing exaclty what software they use and how many licenses are installed on their machine. Still could be a prank tho:D and a good one tho

Few seconds with google will give you few dodgy websites who actually explains what information the Foundry libraries running on your PC are sending back to the Foundry.

Good luck to anyone thinking they're anonymous these days - especially if you do post your work online lol

S

SBowie
12-07-2015, 07:16 AM
Yup, they should send very polite letter using traditional means of a tuxedo wearing messenger and politely ask the pirate to stop using the software of face the consequences.I'm no fan of piracy, despite never-ending excuses put forward by pirates - but bulk posts exposing individual email addresses to everyone is unprofessional, just plain sloppy. It probably constitutes a breach of the privacy policy of the company. This is what bcc is for.

Megalodon2.0
12-07-2015, 10:15 AM
I'm no fan of piracy, despite never-ending excuses put forward by pirates - but bulk posts exposing individual email addresses to everyone is unprofessional, just plain sloppy. It probably constitutes a breach of the privacy policy of the company. This is what bcc is for.

This is PRECISELY what I meant. Thank you Steve - saved me from getting... nasty. ;)

Cageman
12-07-2015, 08:30 PM
I'm no fan of piracy, despite never-ending excuses put forward by pirates - but bulk posts exposing individual email addresses to everyone is unprofessional, just plain sloppy. It probably constitutes a breach of the privacy policy of the company. This is what bcc is for.

Spot on!

EDIT: I started using pirated versions of LW on Amiga and PC. But it also led me to where I am now, where I...

1) Pay for it, and also a bunch of third party tools for it.
2) Had 13 lics of LW 11.x + some third party tools bought for the studio I work at.

Piracy is not allways evil.

shrox
12-07-2015, 08:34 PM
Yup, they should send very polite letter using traditional means of a tuxedo wearing messenger and politely ask the pirate to stop using the software of face the consequences.

Beth Castle do work in Foundry as compliance investigator and since they're not denying it...

Y'all can believe this is scam but somehow they're contacting people with no licensees or borked ones( as in the license server stopped/got corrupted for some reason) and since they know the license details and few other things that only Foundry could know it's hard to believe that some random dude is sending email to random people knowing exaclty what software they use and how many licenses are installed on their machine. Still could be a prank tho:D and a good one tho

Few seconds with google will give you few dodgy websites who actually explains what information the Foundry libraries running on your PC are sending back to the Foundry.

Good luck to anyone thinking they're anonymous these days - especially if you do post your work online lol

S

It's the multiple email addresses that's sloppy and unprofessional, enough so this just might be a zero-sum event for them, where the minor screw-up outweighs the major gain.

spherical
12-07-2015, 11:14 PM
EDIT: I started using pirated versions of LW on Amiga and PC. But it also led me to where I am now, where I...

1) Pay for it, and also a bunch of third party tools for it.
2) Had 13 lics of LW 11.x + some third party tools bought for the studio I work at.

Piracy is not allways evil.

Wow.

erikals
12-07-2015, 11:41 PM
Cageman, yep, same here, then bought LightWave followed by 15+ plugins

c.1
12-07-2015, 11:51 PM
I still say scam-buca, if the Foundry is behind it and not admitting to it, then they are complicant if they are not behind it and reaping the benifits of guilty people bucking up well I guess good for them.
Sorry but thieves are theives, if you get caught then don't ***** about bucking up.
If the Foundry doesn't admit to but reaps the benifit of people being outed for ripping them off then more power to them.(they have not much to lose by this) abd if some scammmer gets a few c/c numbers in the process then he/she wins to.

lightscape
12-08-2015, 12:21 AM
Well it could be both a scam and be legit. :D

People have come forward who already told the story how their studio was audited by the Foundry and the procedure started with an email. Still they were shocked how the Foundry found out. That's legit.

Then there's the genius spammer who takes time to get to know a studio, filling out forms to find details, and then sends them email.
That's one patient scammer.

c.1
12-08-2015, 12:28 AM
Yup, when money is at stake, patience can be a virtue. Douchebags have nothing but time (they don't f'n work, they are full- time douchebags)

SBowie
12-08-2015, 06:49 AM
Piracy is not allways evil.Who is to say, though, that your career (and that of those with similar anecdotes) would not have turned out just as well or even better had you lusted after a legal copy of LW for the Amiga so much that you found creative ways to come up with $$, then scrimped and saved to pay for it?

My personal copy of LW for the Amiga set me back $2500. I have updated (legally) to pretty much every version ever released. At the time of my initial purchase, I was sole bread-winner for a family of five, squeaking along on a small salary. I certainly couldn't afford it. And truth be told, I didn't really need it ... I just really wanted it. Part of the money I used to pay for it came from taking the initiative to approach the editor of a computer mag with what turned into a series of articles, which led to many, many other things.

Doing the honest thing is never evil.

MarcusM
12-08-2015, 07:52 AM
Spot on!

EDIT: I started using pirated versions of LW on Amiga and PC. But it also led me to where I am now, where I...

1) Pay for it, and also a bunch of third party tools for it.
2) Had 13 lics of LW 11.x + some third party tools bought for the studio I work at.

Piracy is not allways evil.

Is LightWave considered as a "industry standard" in Ubisoft cinematic department? :)

Danner
12-08-2015, 08:47 AM
When you are starting out and just learning, it's not usually a matter of finding "creative ways" to find the money to go with a legal copy, for most people there are basically three alternatives: Free, cheap or pirated software. Demos are fine for a test drive, but not for learning the software. I agree that Autodesk are too greedy but the "personal learning edition" seems to me like a great way to start while remaining honest. I actually started with videotoaster on the amiga with LW version 1, then a pirated copy on PC when it came out, and then later bought two, then two more from my boss. I'm not saying it's ok or that I'm proud of it. It is what it is.

SBowie
12-08-2015, 08:57 AM
When you are starting out and just learning, it's not usually a matter of finding "creative ways" to find the money to go with a legal copy ...Why not? And - if not, there are lots of things in life I can't afford, even now. So be it. I don't have an inherent right to something just because I want it. I'll find a way that does not require theft, or I'll do without and move on.

On related points you raise, if developers provide an attractive path for students and other non-commercial use, hooray. If they don't, let competitive forces whip them into shape (the academic version of LW has always been pretty reasonable, I think).

prometheus
12-08-2015, 09:08 AM
Why not? And - if not, there are lots of things in life I can't afford, even now. So be it. I don't have an inherent right to something just because I want it. I'll find a way that does not require theft, or I'll do without and move on.

On related points you raise, if developers provide an attractive path for students and other non-commercial use, hooray. If they don't, let competitive forces whip them into shape (the academic version of LW has always been pretty reasonable, I think).

I agree with you on all that, but as a sidenote and a reflection, autodesk made their versions free for any student or school, how can a smaller less used software in many branches compete with autodesk in schools.

I think I would recommend anyone starting educations courses and schools to use autodesks products if they have such offers for free, there´s no reason not to and also with respect to what is mainly used over here for commercials, archviz, games and other areas.....would lightwave have hade a stirred up pond of (I exist) and also free for students and shools, I would look at it on another perspective..so there is two main elements, the first being lightwave would cost students and schools, and second..autodesk products are so well established and industry standard for what most companies are looking for in skillset.

I wish it was different though...becuase I have more love for Lightwave than the others.

Wickedpup
12-08-2015, 09:10 AM
Piracy is not allways evil.
It is what it is. Piss poor excuses to justify you bending or breaking the law only tells us something about your character ;-P

And one thing I would never do is b1tch and whine on CGTalk if I got caught red-handed......

prometheus
12-08-2015, 09:15 AM
Autodesk didn't do that, but they did brag about that 3DS Max was the most pirated 3DCC app some years ago. Not as an intention to tell people to pirate it, but more of a hint towards the popularity of the software.

No links though, but that is how I remember it...

No need of piracy if your a poor student or running a school, they are free now for student and schools as I understand it.

50one
12-08-2015, 09:23 AM
No need of piracy if your a poor student or running a school, they are free now for student and schools as I understand it.

Bingo, you can even go their sites and just register as a "student" - (yes, that's still breaching the law) - I just don't understand why people want a pirated copy nowadays - maybe for the excitement lol.

SBowie
12-08-2015, 09:27 AM
I agree with you on all that, but as a sidenote and a reflection, autodesk made their versions free for any student or school, how can a smaller less used software in many branches compete with autodesk in schools.David against Goliath is always going to be an uphill battle. Many companies have found it practical to offer very attractive entry level options, though you're right, it's hard to compete with free (even when you can match it). But now we're talking about marketing and business strategies, not ethics.

50one
12-08-2015, 09:32 AM
no such thing as ethics/integrity for 99% of society these days, most people demand everything for free or peanuts and the culture of apps for 0.02 is not helping either.

but maybe that's the way to go, adding more revenue and lowering prices...imagine you;re modeling and every 30 minutes there's few ads for 5 minutes lol you could use that time to stretch/exercise....

lightscape
12-08-2015, 10:00 AM
Spot on!

EDIT: I started using pirated versions of LW on Amiga and PC. But it also led me to where I am now, where I...

1) Pay for it, and also a bunch of third party tools for it.
2) Had 13 lics of LW 11.x + some third party tools bought for the studio I work at.

Piracy is not allways evil.


Doesn't that promote
The end justifies the means

Anyway my only complaint is how The Foundry is handling this.
Its illegal, unprofessional, sloppy the way its handled.

Oh well..for them the end justifies the means. :D

Davewriter
12-08-2015, 08:45 PM
Can hardly wait for them to go after China.
I'm sure that the copies of software you can buy on just about any street corner for the equivalent
of $2.00 are all the real thing.

kopperdrake
12-09-2015, 07:05 AM
David against Goliath is always going to be an uphill battle. Many companies have found it practical to offer very attractive entry level options, though you're right, it's hard to compete with free (even when you can match it). But now we're talking about marketing and business strategies, not ethics.

I've heard the new undo feature in LW2016 comes with a built-in 10 undos every 24 hours, but you can power up in batches of 20 for $5 a pop.

gerry_g
12-09-2015, 07:27 AM
wouldn't work, LW always undoes the wrong thing when you use it anyway so there'd be no point

lightscape
12-09-2015, 09:54 PM
Can hardly wait for them to go after China.
I'm sure that the copies of software you can buy on just about any street corner for the equivalent
of $2.00 are all the real thing.

China is not easy to go after being so far away. Besides there are many using cracks in the states as well. Not just companies but freelance "generalists".

Luc_Feri
12-11-2015, 07:15 AM
^yup, it's funny that a small company Lux had a normal payment gateway on their website, while with Foundry is sending scans with my credit card details over the network, it's like it's 1999 again lol.

Amen. Dark ages stuff. I might as well sit and wait for an image to take 3 mins to load and go back in time.

I've paid for every piece of software owned and the only time I've copied stuff was back on D90's for Spectrum 48k. :D