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egearbox
11-27-2015, 07:11 PM
I know that LW ran a promotion a while back where they bundled Poser (and I bought it), so I'm not sure if I'm stepping on any toes at LW or Newtek (I hope not). But I have to ask....

is anyone working on a "Bridge" type utility for moving content (objects, textures, etc) between Lightwave and DAZ Studio? The "Poser Fusion" bridge tool was the only thing that made using Poser bearable for me. I just recently tried DAZ and I liked it much better than Poser, right out of the gate. I've taken several runs at Poser over the years, and gotten thoroughly disgusted each time. It just seemed too clunky, and too different from Lightwave. DAZ Studio seems much closer to LW in terms of interface, tools and just the whole approach to 3D. If someone were to write something, chances are that people would pay actual money for it (hint, hint)...

Failing that - is there a preferred way to export/import content (both ways) without losing textures, morphs, UV maps, etcetera? I'm still exploring DAZ and haven't had much luck moving stuff out of it into LW yet. Just thought I'd ask in case there was some incredibly obvious thing I'm missing (like a big "Connect to Lightwave" button - that would be nice...)

Software: DAZ Studio 4.8, Lightwave 2015 Update 3, both on Windows 7.

Kaptive
11-27-2015, 11:15 PM
I got that deal too, and I have to say I've never used Poser once.... though I think I borrowed a couple of hair cuts at one point. I've not really tried Daz, so I don't know how useful it'd be (and I'd have the same reservations as poser to be honest).
But they seem to have Autodesk connectivity, and the surfacing seems to be PBR based too, so maybe there is a chance in the next/subsequent releases(?). I have zero idea how long such a bridge takes to write though, but anything which allows LW to connect to other software is usually a good thing if it offers features that LW cannot/does not.

spherical
11-27-2015, 11:22 PM
but anything which allows LW to connect to other software is usually a good thing if it offers features that LW cannot/does not.

Yeah, that's what I suggested with GoM; a bridge between LightWave and Modo. Embrace and expand, instead of shun and consolidate. Got nothing but negative. Face it, Modo at least saves as LWO. But the other way around? Nope.

Kaptive
11-28-2015, 02:00 AM
Yeah, that's what I suggested with GoM; a bridge between LightWave and Modo. Embrace and expand, instead of shun and consolidate. Got nothing but negative. Face it, Modo at least saves as LWO. But the other way around? Nope.

I'm guessing in the instance of Modo, that it is perhaps a little too close to home and they'd worry about migration... and maybe a bit of bad blood(?). However, I have never used Modo and know little about it beyond what gets discussed in here. But my comment still stands. Some of the biggest road blocks I've often faced is object format conversions.... but I doubt we'll see a 3D Max interchange etc anytime soon (more to access the huge libraries of content that simply isn't open to LW users).
I see LW3DGs (and historiically Newteks) philosophy is more about extending functionality through programs that don't try to compete directly. Zbrush, Unity etc. I get the limitation from a business point of view, but it can be difficult from some users perspectives to be sure!

Shiny_Mike
11-28-2015, 02:26 AM
Dunno if it's the best method, but I've had success exporting from Daz via FBX_2009 ascii format. (with whatever "include textures" type checkbox is there) Not perfect, but it works pretty decent. You'll need to invert the images used for eyelash transparency, etc.. and alter spec/glossiness and whatnot.

prometheus
11-28-2015, 03:16 AM
we should have pipeline forum specific categories..but since that is lacking there are at least threads :)

here´s one started by me quite some time ago..unfortunatly I haven´t been keeping track of latest releases etc..so how it works with newer lw and newer daz..not sure.

PIPELINE DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?125710-PIPELINE-DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE&highlight=daz+pipeline

Daz 4.0 and lw 11.6.3 has been working nicely with fbx export..exporting out bones, textures, morphs and animations..animations should be baked to studiokeys in daz before exporting, but uv maps and textures and morphs comes out correctly ..but that is from genesis base figures..some people have had issues with other items, and I also think some stuff have changed in later daz versions.
shinymike´s tips about changing spec, glossy and inverting transp is quite right.

I will start again maybe and check lw 2015 and daz 4.0 before I upgrade daz versions.

spherical
11-28-2015, 03:27 AM
I'm guessing in the instance of Modo, that it is perhaps a little too close to home and they'd worry about migration... and maybe a bit of bad blood(?). However, I have never used Modo and know little about it beyond what gets discussed in here. But my comment still stands. Some of the biggest road blocks I've often faced is object format conversions.... but I doubt we'll see a 3D Max interchange etc anytime soon (more to access the huge libraries of content that simply isn't open to LW users).
I see LW3DGs (and historiically Newteks) philosophy is more about extending functionality through programs that don't try to compete directly. Zbrush, Unity etc. I get the limitation from a business point of view, but it can be difficult from some users perspectives to be sure!

Yeah. I know. Been dealing with it for a long time. Doesn't mean they can't take the High Road, overlook/depreciate all of the defection crap and come out/stay on top.

True, 3DS Max will never have an interchange that AD doesn't have a stake in. Period.

prometheus
11-28-2015, 06:43 AM
Just checking the fbx export from daz 4.0 to 2015 now..haven´t tested in 2015 before, seems ok and much the same, some issues though with the transparency eyelash maps not loading at all as the rest of the textures does..if I´m not recalling wrong..it was the same issue with 11.6.3 too.

so You would need to load the transparency map for the eyelelashes, and als one for the eye I think, and not only that..you need to set them up in the transparency channel too..since they are completly empty in the texture channels, so just make sure to select the model uv map and the transparency map in that channel, and check invert.
the eyes cornea needs either the transparency map, or needs transparency to be set by value...otherwise you won´t see the iris of the eye properly.

I also noticed the bone transform may not be the same as in 11.6.3 but need to check that..it may be of no use or need to be parented differently.

Can´t speak for more recent daz versions though...never upgraded to 4.8 or such...partly because they changed installation procedure so it was only doable through internet connection I think..and I think some folks had some issues with 4.8

otherwise textures and bones seem ok, and it comes with the right scale too, and weightmaps already setup and assigned properly in accordance to the bones.

I am loading fbx in Layout.

prometheus
11-28-2015, 06:53 AM
must add, the cornea transparency map when loaded, not to be inverted..I think.

egearbox
11-28-2015, 08:17 AM
we should have pipeline forum specific categories..but since that is lacking there are at least threads :)

here´s one started by me quite some time ago..unfortunatly I haven´t been keeping track of latest releases etc..so how it works with newer lw and newer daz..not sure.

PIPELINE DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?125710-PIPELINE-DAZstudiopro4-LIGHTWAVE&highlight=daz+pipeline

Daz 4.0 and lw 11.6.3 has been working nicely with fbx export..exporting out bones, textures, morphs and animations..animations should be baked to studiokeys in daz before exporting, but uv maps and textures and morphs comes out correctly ..but that is from genesis base figures..some people have had issues with other items, and I also think some stuff have changed in later daz versions.
shinymike´s tips about changing spec, glossy and inverting transp is quite right.

I will start again maybe and check lw 2015 and daz 4.0 before I upgrade daz versions.

Thanks for the link! I'm reading the thread now and will spend some Quality Time with the software later today (after coffee).

I did want to say, I don't know what version of Daz you were using, but I downloaded 4.8 (current) and it's light-years ahead of Poser. Like swimming in water versus swimming in mud, as far as I'm concerned. Five minutes and I was sold - of course, I'm a hobbyist-level user, if I had a studio breathing down my neck I might feel differently. But the figures, the textures, the interface, the tools - massive improvement from Poser. Just my 2 cents. :)

prometheus
11-28-2015, 08:26 AM
Thanks for the link! I'm reading the thread now and will spend some Quality Time with the software later today (after coffee).

I did want to say, I don't know what version of Daz you were using, but I downloaded 4.8 (current) and it's light-years ahead of Poser. Like swimming in water versus swimming in mud, as far as I'm concerned. Five minutes and I was sold - of course, I'm a hobbyist-level user, if I had a studio breathing down my neck I might feel differently. But the figures, the textures, the interface, the tools - massive improvement from Poser. Just my 2 cents. :)


It says clearly in my post just before my last post. daz 4.0, there have been some improvements I reckon in 4.8 but I don´t think so much is different, might install it later.
if you just want the figure with bones ..uncheck animation, if you want to export out animations from daz..you need to bake it to studiokeys first.

checking skin subsurface, that is a bit tedious since you would have to apply skin material through nodes..which means setting up image node, skin node from scratch on to every surface..that would be tedious, especially when tweaking it right.
probably several ways to use one surface and texture only, or use some global nodes if that is possible so you can tweak all surfaces skin node at once, not sure..maybe using senseis global nodes?

As I understand it, poser only worked before as a host..and you were not able to adjust the bones or animation directly in lightwave, though I am not sure it later was enhanced so you could do that too?
with daz you can edit the bones quite easy with FK setting up IK another story..then you could skip that process and just rig it with genoma, but that would mean setting up weightmaps again.

egearbox
11-28-2015, 10:35 AM
It says clearly in my post just before my last post. daz 4.0

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Must have skipped over that line. I thought you were talking about checking before upgrading TO 4.0, not upgrading FROM 4.0. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

prometheus
11-28-2015, 12:33 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Must have skipped over that line. I thought you were talking about checking before upgrading TO 4.0, not upgrading FROM 4.0. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Oh..that´s okey, I´m no angel..that´s why I am pointing fingers:D

prometheus
11-29-2015, 09:46 AM
A simple setup to test daz fbx export animation and use with bullet dynamics..might be.

1. In daz studio, with genesis basic male loaded, go to pose animate..on the right side select content library and my library/aniblocks.
2. at the bottom click on animate 2, expand the end of animation block in the animate timeline, drag the punch block to the animate timeline, then right mouse click on the end block (it will show autoadjust) just click that and it adjust to the end of the animated punch block.
3. right mouse click on the animate dar menu bar..not on any icon..just the empty bar and you will get the menu to bake to studiokeyframes..(this is awkward to hide it like that)
4. just export with fbx and check animation.

5.load fbx with lightwave joints and motion plugin.
6. add a null and parent it to the right hand bone, maybe use scematics view and target the null in the window..so when dragging the null you can follow it when comes close to the hand, then ctrl click and parent to the hand.
7. make the null a kinematic object, rezise it a bit.
8 make a cube object..replace it so it is placed to fit where the hand punch is meeting the cube..then fracture it...make it a parts bodie and set to convex pieces
9.make a ground object as static.

10. Run the simulation

If done right you have a daz figure punching and breaking the cube, motion all done in daz..that´s the simplest fastest way, though not ideal for a tweakable workflow with other items if you need to change in lightwave, then it might be better to use a genoma rig and animate the body motion within lightwave.

magiclight
11-30-2015, 02:11 AM
Notice that the FBX export is always the base resolution no matter what you change in DS, and Genesis 2 HD characters will not work (the HD part is lost).

The imported joints are set to "use only weight maps", no problem, just be aware of it.

Weights maps on Genesis 1 cloth is sometimes a little messed up, shoes seem to be the most common problem area, but it can be fixed in modeler.

There are MDD and Alembic exporters available for DS as another alternative to export to Lightwave (they do work with HD characters), an OBJ can be imported, have surfaces fixed and saved as a surface library and next time you load the same character with an MDD animation you can restore the surfaces with "Load library by name", it works with LWO files of course also but sometimes the point order get messed up so importing the OBJ with the MDD often works better, just remember that the OBJ file must have the same name every time as the name is used for naming UV maps, otherwise "Load library by name" will fail.

Any form of real interchange tools are not easy to do, DAZ have their own weight mapping, ok, Genesis 3 use dual quaternion weight mapping which I guess is a little bit more "open", and now they use UDIM instead ov UV maps with Genesis 3 also.

egearbox
11-30-2015, 06:09 AM
Notice that the FBX export is always the base resolution no matter what you change in DS, and Genesis 2 HD characters will not work (the HD part is lost).

The imported joints are set to "use only weight maps", no problem, just be aware of it.

Weights maps on Genesis 1 cloth is sometimes a little messed up, shoes seem to be the most common problem area, but it can be fixed in modeler.

There are MDD and Alembic exporters available for DS as another alternative to export to Lightwave (they do work with HD characters), an OBJ can be imported, have surfaces fixed and saved as a surface library and next time you load the same character with an MDD animation you can restore the surfaces with "Load library by name", it works with LWO files of course also but sometimes the point order get messed up so importing the OBJ with the MDD often works better, just remember that the OBJ file must have the same name every time as the name is used for naming UV maps, otherwise "Load library by name" will fail.

Any form of real interchange tools are not easy to do, DAZ have their own weight mapping, ok, Genesis 3 use dual quaternion weight mapping which I guess is a little bit more "open", and now they use UDIM instead ov UV maps with Genesis 3 also.

Wow, you've obviously dug into this quite a bit - where did you get this information, or was it just from experiment and inspection? I noticed that the FBX documentation on the DAZ site is a bit outdated, not sure if that makes a difference but I've found that sometimes outdated docs are worse than none at all. :)

magiclight
12-02-2015, 01:01 AM
Yes, they (DAZ) are not keen on documentation ;)
The documentation for FBX is from the stone age and explains options that does not exists any more and don't say anything about options that do exist.

So yes, most of it is found by trail and error.

Also some care is needed with the morphs when you export FBX, you usually have a gazillion of morphs and in LW they are all loaded no matter if they are used or not so could eat a lot of your memory, just export the morphs you actually need.