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DrStrik9
11-25-2015, 01:11 PM
Awhile back, when I updated my old Mac OS, the Trees Designer plugin stopped working. I was very disappointed, because it is a fantastic parametric modeler for creating trees that can be animated, because it creates good weight maps, which are virtually impossible to create manually.

Today, I had a hunch, loaded it into 2015.3 running under OS X 10.10.5, and lo and behold, IT WORKS! :thumbsup:

I just thought I'd let you all know. http://www.polas.net/trees/

paulk
11-25-2015, 03:55 PM
When I clicked on the link you provided, McAfee AntiVirus freaked.

Did you load Tree Designer from a backup or previous download, or did you download it recently?

DrStrik9
11-25-2015, 04:12 PM
"When Fear Ruled the World" <movie title>. :+)

I downloaded it quite awhile back, and migrated it to a newer MacPro at the beginning of this year. In fact, if memory serves, I was beta-testing it, and may have gotten it from Pawel via email ...

I have never really trusted McAfee, but am no expert on virus protection. Are you using it on Mac or Widows?

My other thought is that McAfee might be freaking because of site certificate, or something arcane like that. What kind of error or warnings are you getting?

You could ask Pawel Olas (plugin developer) if he has any virus protection on his hosted site, or any problems with that kind of stuff: Pawel Olas <[email protected]>

This is a great plugin, IMO, so entirely worth the effort.

Kaptive
11-25-2015, 05:12 PM
I'd agree completely, it's a great plugin and very intuitive and flexable. It makes this type of organic modelling fun as opposed to an effort. Works fine on PC with 2015.3 also.
Not tried animating with it yet, but I know I'll need to eventually... so that is good to know!

re: Mcafee... no idea.

paulk
11-25-2015, 07:32 PM
131203

This is what McAfee said.

I will email Pawel.

DrStrik9
11-25-2015, 10:08 PM
Hmmm ... That info is 6 years old. Way to stay up to date, McAfee.

I've downloaded other things from there more recently, and never had the slightest problem.

Out of curiosity, try his primary site: www.polas.net

Farhad_azer
11-26-2015, 12:17 AM
I had seen this plugin but don't know so much about it, how is it different than DP-tree?

raw-m
11-26-2015, 01:03 AM
Thanks for posting - very timely! Would like it as there's practically nothing like it for the Mac. The only thing putting me off is that 2006 is the last time it was updated and LW 2016 can't be far off. What do other Mac users use for tree gen?

Kaptive
11-26-2015, 02:07 AM
Worth just watching the video to get the jist of how fast you can create in it and how.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxR79tuiGkw

Don't be fooled by the old look Lightwave, it is exactly the same in 2015.3.


The only thing putting me off is that 2006 is the last time it was updated and LW 2016 can't be far off. What do other Mac users use for tree gen?

I get the feeling that it will work fine with LW2016 (as modeler sounds like it will be more or less the same, but with extra features), but even if it didn't, I'd happily keep a separate LW2015 on my machine if I needed to use this.

Also, Polas updated it for LW 10 and 11, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't do the same for LW2016 if it broke. It is a source of income for him.
http://www.polas.net/download/index.php (There is even a demo you can try here).

Other features include a preset function to save your tree styles, so that you can quickly generate multiple different versions of the same tree type.

S0nny
11-26-2015, 02:23 AM
I had seen this plugin but don't know so much about it, how is it different than DP-tree?

I don't know, seems to me they are pretty similar in the way they works, but I've tried the demo and is limited to the render line mode, so I don't know about geometry and stability.
BTW, maybe it's my installation but DP-Tree doesn't work properly on lw 2015.x (x64). No matter what, it keeps crashing 100% of the times while changing render from line to polygon or subd. The Make Tree command does nothing.
This doesn't apply on DP grass or DP foliage, they work perfectly.

raw-m
11-26-2015, 02:28 AM
Good pointers, thanks Kaptive. Didn't see the v11 update notes, wouldn't want to keep jumping back for $120!

Re DP-Tree, there was a post a few weeks back where Denis mentioned Sub-Ds are broken in LW2015, think he said it was a LW issue, not his code.

S0nny
11-26-2015, 04:46 AM
Re DP-Tree, there was a post a few weeks back where Denis mentioned Sub-Ds are broken in LW2015, think he said it was a LW issue, not his code.

Ouch! But does this affect the polygon render even if it's not sub-d also? It's like it doesn't generate even the poly mesh, not only the sub-d. I'll try to find the thread.

edit: found it http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148853-DP-Verdure-crashing-in-2015-3

paulk
11-26-2015, 06:47 AM
Hmmm ... That info is 6 years old. Way to stay up to date, McAfee.

I've downloaded other things from there more recently, and never had the slightest problem.

Out of curiosity, try his primary site: www.polas.net

I did. Same result.

Pawel responded to my email:

no. I will read about it. It may be something to do with how the DNS is configured by the provider. I will check with them too. Thank you for letting me know


Has any other antivirus software flagged this site?

S0nny
11-26-2015, 08:38 AM
Has any other antivirus software flagged this site?

Nope, but ms security essential here, no 3rd party av.

grabiller
11-26-2015, 08:52 AM
The Leaves Generator does not work with Lightwave 2015.3 though, that makes TreeDesigner much less interesting unfortunately, unless you only need trees without leaves.

allabulle
11-26-2015, 10:50 AM
Really? I was about to buy the plugin, but without leaves... I don't know.

grabiller
11-26-2015, 10:56 AM
Same here, actually. Perhaps that will give some motivation to Pawel to update the plugin (and make the OSX version too) ? ; )

Kaptive
11-26-2015, 11:22 AM
The Leaves Generator does not work with Lightwave 2015.3 though, that makes TreeDesigner much less interesting unfortunately, unless you only need trees without leaves.

In what way doesn't work? Are you refering to the extra plugin "leaves generator"? On my tree designer I can add leaves easily in the 3rd panel. So long as you have some leaves textures (easily found online) or make them in 5 minutes in PS, I get great results. I'm not sure what leaves designer could add to the mix. Not saying you are wrong, but you certainly don't need to create trees without leaves! All works fine on my 2015.3

Example below:- These were created in 2015.3 with tree designer, leaves geometry and all. Textures are ones I borrowed from some xfrog or other bought trees I had. They probably look a bit weird because these were used for a fantasy setting, so not your standard look. Oh, and the green plants at the base of the trees were put there by me and aren't a result of the program. I just used them to blend.

131209

You sometimes have to fix a couple of UVs, and occasionally some geometry when you get weird results. But no biggy. Also, if it looks a bit grainy, well, I didn't render it for very long in VPR. But you certainly can create leaf geometry. 1 poly, 2 poly, rhombus, 3 poly, rhombus 2.

131210

EDIT! Are you talking about the Mac version? I'm on PC here, and the results are as above...

grabiller
11-26-2015, 11:43 AM
My bad then, from his website I thought we needed the Leaves Generator in order to generate the leaves.

I must have misunderstood the descriptions, sorry about that.

Markc
11-26-2015, 11:56 AM
Thanks for posting - very timely! Would like it as there's practically nothing like it for the Mac. The only thing putting me off is that 2006 is the last time it was updated and LW 2016 can't be far off. What do other Mac users use for tree gen?

FYI e-on software have a 50% off everything (except network licenses) until the 30th.
They have Plant Factory.

allabulle
11-26-2015, 12:29 PM
Good to know, Kaptive. Thanks for posting.

Kaptive
11-26-2015, 01:19 PM
FYI e-on software have a 50% off everything (except network licenses) until the 30th.
They have Plant Factory.

Yeah, that looks great, with lwo export too. At that price, depending on your needs, it might be worth the extra $130! Certainly gives you more flexability and control.
Tree designer works in a unique way (and gives very fast results) direct in LW without having to jump through any hoops, which is why I like it in my tool box. But Plant Factory looks like something much more in depth. $500 down to $250 is actually a big bargain. Wish I had the extra cash floating about!! Cheers for the info :)

Kaptive
11-26-2015, 01:33 PM
Good to know, Kaptive. Thanks for posting.

A pleasure!

prometheus
11-26-2015, 01:55 PM
donīt have tree designer, but dponts verdure works pretty much the same as far as I have seen, probably some features it doesnīt have compared to tree designer, but would be good to know what tree designer specificly has or does better..for a justification on buying it compared to the free plugin.
I know tree designer comes with a lot of textures for bark and leafs, that is something dpontīs verdure plugin donīt provide...but what else?

Michael

DrStrik9
11-26-2015, 02:31 PM
The Leaves Generator does not work with Lightwave 2015.3 though, that makes TreeDesigner much less interesting unfortunately, unless you only need trees without leaves.

Well, that's not true. TreesDesigner does generate leaves. I generate leaves with TreesDesigner all the time. They appear when you chose to include "twigs."

EDIT: Oops. I didn't see Kaptive's earlier post on this. Didn't mean to beat you up. :+)

So have you actually tried to USE leaves generator? In what way does it not work?

DrStrik9
11-26-2015, 02:43 PM
donīt have tree designer, but dponts verdure works pretty much the same as far as I have seen, probably some features it doesnīt have compared to tree designer, but would be good to know what tree designer specificly has or does better..for a justification on buying it compared to the free plugin.
I know tree designer comes with a lot of textures for bark and leafs, that is something dpontīs verdure plugin donīt provide...but what else?

Michael

The only issue with Dpont's Verdure is that it's Windows only. TreesDesigner is also available for Mac.

DrStrik9
11-26-2015, 02:51 PM
FYI e-on software have a 50% off everything (except network licenses) until the 30th.
They have Plant Factory.

Trouble is that Plant Factory Designer is 5 times more expensive than Trees Designer ($50) and Plant Factory Studio is 10x more expensive, and those numbers are when Plant Factory is half off.

prometheus
11-26-2015, 03:01 PM
The only issue with Dpont's Verdure is that it's Windows only. TreesDesigner is also available for Mac.

Then no issue for me, I decided long time ago to avoid macs for lack of support in the 3d world, plugins etc..and if I would choose..I prefer dp verdure for free instead of paying for treedesigner and also having to buy a mac :)
and for that I also avoid all other missing plugins only made for pc.

well..someday perhaps within some years when all tools are released for macīs too perhaps.
But I am not sure..is this really the only difference? along with the textures that follows with tree designer?

Kryslin
11-26-2015, 06:42 PM
Has any other antivirus software flagged this site?

Avast 2015 here, no problems.

DrStrik9
11-26-2015, 07:13 PM
It is true that Macs are expensive: absurdly so on the upper end. I will probably not buy another one in the future. Apple has unfortunately become beyond arrogant. But it has been difficult to change platforms because of decades of developed assets, which is becoming far less of an issue. Recently I'm seriously considering running Bootcamp, or some other version of the system-level way to run Windows on the Mac, particularly for Lightwave (and all those gorgeous plugins not available for Mac), but not so much for other apps. I literally hate (dislike intensely) the current trashcan MacPro form factor, almost as much as I hate Microsaur. :+)

But we're getting WAY off topic ... The only app that does better trees than Pawel's TreesDesigner (that I have used) was an older app called Onyx, which produced species-accurate models, but did NOT create weight maps for animation (a tragedy), and is now ONLY aimed at Max. :-(

Here's one of their species-accurate models, from years ago: 131226131227

prometheus
11-26-2015, 08:53 PM
It is true that Macs are expensive: absurdly so on the upper end. I will probably not buy another one in the future. Apple has unfortunately become beyond arrogant. But it has been difficult to change platforms because of decades of developed assets, which is becoming far less of an issue. Recently I'm seriously considering running Bootcamp, or some other version of the system-level way to run Windows on the Mac, particularly for Lightwave (and all those gorgeous plugins not available for Mac), but not so much for other apps. I literally hate (dislike intensely) the current trashcan MacPro form factor, almost as much as I hate Microsaur. :+)

But we're getting WAY off topic ... The only app that does better trees than Pawel's TreesDesigner (that I have used) was an older app called Onyx, which produced species-accurate models, but did NOT create weight maps for animation (a tragedy), and is now ONLY aimed at Max. :-(

Here's one of their species-accurate models, from years ago: 131226131227


yes..but you mentioned the only difference with verdure was no mac plugin, so. basicly you may imply there is no difference in quality?

the sample images ..well, you can push out such trees from verdure easy anyway, I know about onyx and have tried it, what it did good was the pine tree module.

meshpig
11-27-2015, 01:22 AM
Trees designer works fine on OS 11.1 which is cool, forgot I had it :)

raw-m
11-27-2015, 02:02 AM
Bit confused. On the LW Plugins page it's says its 50 (in which case I'd get it!), on the order page $120. Anyone know?

DrStrik9
11-27-2015, 06:15 AM
Bit confused. On the LW Plugins page it's says its 50 (in which case I'd get it!), on the order page $120. Anyone know?

That's weird. Maybe shoot Pawel an email.

raw-m
11-27-2015, 06:51 AM
Yes, that's my next move. Ta.

allabulle
11-27-2015, 06:56 AM
Yes, that's my next move. Ta.

Could you clarify the issue with us here later to avoid sending the same request by others, please?

raw-m
11-27-2015, 07:07 AM
No problem. Will email later tonight.

Email sent, hopefully hear soon.

allabulle
11-27-2015, 07:12 AM
Thanks.

raw-m
11-28-2015, 05:00 AM
Had a reply from Pawel, it's $120, website has been updated. He also said...


I do test the plugins in all major releases of LW and update them whenever necessary. As far as I know there were no issues with them in any recen LW versions.

So good to hear its still supported.

allabulle
11-28-2015, 07:50 AM
Thanks raw-m.

Greenlaw
11-29-2015, 01:22 PM
My bad then, from his website I thought we needed the Leaves Generator in order to generate the leaves.

I must have misunderstood the descriptions, sorry about that.
Leaves Generator was required for an older version of Tree Designer. The features were eventually integrated with a later version of the Tree Designer plugin a few years back. Leaves Generator is probably still offered for users who never upgraded their old TD license. I believe Grass Generator is still a separate plugin. (Sorry, I haven't visited the Polas site in a couple of years. I know Pawel still supports his plugins for LightWave but I believe he got out of new plugin development quite some time ago.)

I haven't used Tree Designer in a while but I used rely on it heavily because I was often in charge of environment design back when I was with the Box at Rhythm & Hues. TD is a super fast way to make decent looking trees, and I also used it to make ivy and other plants. It's a great tool if you need to produces a bunch of unique trees and bushes very quickly, and you're not too concerned about the exact species.

(For exact species, I still use the Onyx suite. Onyx has a shockingly dated 1990's UI but it still works great. The last time I used it was about three years ago, and that was for creating 'alien' trees and plants for Star Wars Kinect cinematics. XFrog and Plant Factory are more modern tools that are also meant for creating exact species.)

One bug that surfaced with the last version of Tree Designer was that the the trunk may come out, well, truncated. I asked Pawel about it. He was aware of the bug but he didn't feel it was serious enough to fix since all you need to do to fix it is select the points above where the trunk had been shortened, and pull it upwards until it looked right. I would have preferred that he fixed the bug but he's right, it's not a big deal to correct manually. Apart from that, the plugin always worked well for me and the weight maps it generates are perfect wind and other physical effects.

Anyway, I know TD worked fine in 11.6.3, and I'm almost certain I used it in LW 2015 nearly a year ago when I was still freelancing for feature film productions.

G.

prometheus
11-29-2015, 09:15 PM
I still donīt get a feedback on what the main differences are between trees designer and dpontīs verdure trees?

DrStrik9
11-29-2015, 09:25 PM
(Redundant post deleted.)

DrStrik9
11-29-2015, 10:10 PM
I still donīt get a feedback on what the main differences are between trees designer and dpontīs verdure trees?

You asked this before, but I can't tell you because I can't run DP Verdure on Mac, but hopefully a PC user who has both plugins can describe differences. I'm currently investigating installing Windows to run LW and then many plugins for PC not currently available for Mac. Maybe after that I can list the differences for you. :+)

The two do look similar on their respective websites (except for cost).

A few questions: Does DP Verdure create weight maps: (1a) based on Root/Trunk/Branch/Twig thickness, and (1b) based on tree Height, including Leaf? If so, can you adjust the "hardness" (slope/transition rate) of the weight maps? (2) Does DP Verdure allow you to create shapes (spheres, cubes, etc.) in a background layer relative to 0,0,0, for creating trees of various shapes? (3) Does DP Verdure create skeleton, polygonal, and sub-D models? (4) Does DP Verdure control the proportion of branches/twigs/leaves to each background shape, based on the number of polys in each shape?

I find that those things are important when modeling trees for specific applications, and for animating them in the breeze, etc. -- If both plugins have all these capabilities, then they may be very similar.

Here are some screen shots of the TreesDesigner interface:

131277 131276 131278 131279 131280

prometheus
11-30-2015, 08:57 AM
Y
A few questions: Does DP Verdure create weight maps: (1a) based on Root/Trunk/Branch/Twig thickness, and (1b) based on tree Height, including Leaf? If so, can you adjust the "hardness" (slope/transition rate) of the weight maps? (2) Does DP Verdure allow you to create shapes (spheres, cubes, etc.) in a background layer relative to 0,0,0, for creating trees of various shapes? (3) Does DP Verdure create skeleton, polygonal, and sub-D models? (4) Does DP Verdure control the proportion of branches/twigs/leaves to each background shape, based on the number of polys in each shape?

I find that those things are important when modeling trees for specific applications, and for animating them in the breeze, etc. -- If both plugins have all these capabilities, then they may be very similar.

Here are some screen shots of the TreesDesigner interface:

131277 131276 131278 131279 131280

verdure works the same when it comes to creatin spheres, cubes or other shapes as tree designer, I have tested demos of tree designer..and itīs very much the same, but donīt recall differences.
skeleton, polygonal or subd the same..and it works in live interactive mode as well.
the weightmaps I am not sure of..except it creates different weightmaps, you also got the growth plugin to deal with when animating the growth, it got leaf generator which can be controlled in different ways too..not sure of the difference between them two though.
thereīs also a grass generator.

you can check all these search results in youtube..some guys have done coverage of it...


https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dp+verdure

And....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i1j0y_wnQQ

Note..thereīs another recent thread about dp verdure..it crashed on 2015.3 when activating the live mode...dpont is aware of it though...so one would probably need to use older versions for the time being..or use the workaround..

"The crash is happening, if you check the "Trunk Connection" option (checked by default),
I'm trying to find a workaround for 2015.3 but not obvious,
the other option is to use the plugin in a previous version of Modeler.

Denis. "

Greenlaw
11-30-2015, 10:30 AM
I'm not sure what the technical differences are nowadays. It's been many years since I last used Verdure and I know it's gone through a lot of changes since then. When I last used Verdure, it was a commercial product but poorly supported by the distributor at the time (Kurv Studios, no Denis Pontonnier.) Back then, Verdure was similar but had a lot of issues compared to Tree Designer.

When Denis later regained full ownership of Verdure, he resumed his own support and development, and I know he's made a lot of improvements to it. Denis has very high standards for his tools so I'm sure Verdure is a much better tool now.

I haven't gotten around to using the newer release of Verdure because I'd gotten so used to relying on Tree Designer, but I guess I should check it out. I'll let you know if I see any significant differences.

G.