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View Full Version : Do you have 3rd Powers Meta Mesh?. Question/test?



cove
10-18-2015, 03:48 PM
Im thinking of buying Meta Mesh to add to 2 other 3rd Powers plugins that i have.
Im given to understand by 3rd Powers that the movement and joining of objects cannot be animated as Meta Mesh is strictly a modeler tool.
I imagine i would get the same answer with regard to the Heat Sink plugin, which i have.
But i tried the Endomorph feature in modeler with Heat Sink
[One flat oblong falls /wraps around tube] and found that it worked.
I created 4 stages of the oblong falling/wrapping around tube object.
Not so easy in layout to set the key frames correctly via Morph Mixer
But proved that the process of Heat Sink in modeler can be animated.
My main question is to those who already have Metamesh is----
Is it posible to use the Endomorph feature/Morph Mixer with Metamesh objects.
Providing the Endomorph feature is not disabled when Metamesh is active then i imagine that 2 objects moving towards each other can be recorded via Endomorphs.
What im particularly interested in, if Endomorphs can be used, is what
happens when 2 objects start to join up or are seperating.
Is this aspect recordable and how does this aspect look when animated in Layout.
Would be fantastic to find out that objects seen to move together and joining up etc in modeler can be animated in Layout. Opens a whole new world of posibilities.
Much appreciate it if anyone could do a test to see if Endomorphs can be applied to Metamesh. If you can animate the effect with little or no issues then id buy Metamesh as soon as.
Thanks if you can. KEN.

bobakabob
10-18-2015, 04:16 PM
Interesting idea but I can't see it working as meta mesh creates extra geometry and this is problematic for endomorphs. What you could do for animation though is object substitution in Layout. If I've got time tomorrow I'll test it just to see how quickly it borks.
As a modelling tool it's worth price of admission alone. Definitely my favourite modelling tool in LW.

ernpchan
10-18-2015, 04:16 PM
You probably have to do it as an object sequence. Morphs only work when point count and order don't change.

vonpietro
10-18-2015, 06:19 PM
its probably possible to add all your extra geometry - somehow shrink it or mush it into the pre attached state, and then
create some morph states to key frame. This way you can grow whatever you like.

just keep a copy of the original un joined model in the background and mush the joined pieces using the bg as a reference.

jwiede
10-18-2015, 07:15 PM
its probably possible to add all your extra geometry - somehow shrink it or mush it into the pre attached state, and then
create some morph states to key frame. This way you can grow whatever you like.

just keep a copy of the original un joined model in the background and mush the joined pieces using the bg as a reference.

I'm not sure I see how that solves the endomorph geometry count/order issue, though. MetaMesh's re-meshed output geometry count/order won't match that of either input (or both together), so how can the output be saved as a morph of the input(s)?

I agree with bobakabob and empchan, object substitution seems like the best bet for animating MetaMesh output from input(s).

jeric_synergy
10-18-2015, 07:20 PM
An intriguing idea: put this one in the "Team Unify!" quiver.

Meanwhile, if you want animated Booleans I think you're limited to the DPKit Boolean node.

vonpietro
10-18-2015, 10:23 PM
jwiede - what i described is a hack
work backwords - since you can't have an endo morph from two joined objects -
you can create an endo morph once they are joined, and simply grow each side, render it out and join in a 2d comp program. So not really a geometry solution - a image solution if you want the effect
probably better to use object replacement - i agree


real flow version one used object replacement in the geometry tab of properties to access its created water fluids object sequence, maybe still does - but it worked quite well for what i was working on for dan dare when metaballs were quite useless.

cove
10-19-2015, 04:34 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.
Obviously im dissapointed that Metamesh can,t be animated via Endomorphs
but now understand better why.
Never the less im still left a bit puzzled!
When you watch the demo videos of Metamesh being used in modeler and see the meshes of 2 objects joining and seperating then something is going on in lightwave that allows this joining/seperating to be created without issues albiet in modeler.
Im still wondering why lightaves Layout can,t tranlslate the effect.
So to my mind lightwave does apparently have the codeing in its softare to do this but just can,t make it happen in layout.
Still there is some hope that the new Lightwave 2016 may have a feature that will be able to join up the dots, as it were, and allow the creation of new geometry when 2 differing objects collide.
I say this in view of the statement made by Mr Powers in the new blogg.
It goes something like this-------
"We are deveoping a new Lightwave to take advantage of new technoligies
which will allow us to develop new/better/different features".

Interestingy Mr Powers also states/advises in one reply to a post that we should not miss out on the first release of the new LW 20126.
Implying that there are new features etc.
If there new render engine and new Volumetrics feature is anything to go by
then heaven knows what is in developement for the future releases.
Maybe joined up geometry in a kind of metaballs way is some were in the pipeline.
Enough said i think!
looking forward to any other comments you care to make.

bobakabob
10-19-2015, 09:55 AM
Those films showing Metamesh are effectively animated screen grabs in Modeler which you could emulate in Layout using object replacement, though it would obviously take more time. Hopefully the new developments in LW's handling of geometry will really advance Layout and enable animateable Booleans. They already can be achieved in some big league apps but I've never found them stable, not even in Maya, and nothing quite on the level of Metamesh. The 3rd Powers LWBrush sculpting and boolean tools are really like having a mini ZBrush in Modeler.
You might want to experiment with hypervoxels as they do have animateable blending capabilities, but until the forthcoming LW (2016? :-)) you're limited regarding adding sharply defined shape and form to them. However, do a search for Prometheus on the forum as he has explored this avenue with some success.
There are some Dpont nodal plugins which give some control over meshes and HVs with some experimentation so do check them out). http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/Additionnal_Nodes_2.html
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/images/Boolean.gif

Also see these latest postings on the LW blog about the new volumetrics - they look very impressive - as they do appear to enable the creation of non polygonal voxel forms.
https://blog.lightwave3d.com/
All cgi is smoke and mirrors in the end.

ernpchan
10-19-2015, 11:00 PM
When you watch the demo videos of Metamesh being used in modeler and see the meshes of 2 objects joining and seperating then something is going on in lightwave that allows this joining/seperating to be created without issues albiet in modeler.
Im still wondering why lightaves Layout can,t tranlslate the effect.
So to my mind lightwave does apparently have the codeing in its softare to do this but just can,t make it happen in layout.


2015's Modeler and Layout have different mesh engines.

2016 supposedly addresses this though it's still too early to tell what we'll be getting in the first release of 2016.

bazsa73
10-20-2015, 12:43 AM
... not even in Maya, and nothing quite on the level of Metamesh. The 3rd Powers LWBrush sculpting and boolean tools are really like having a mini ZBrush in Modeler.
On the youtube channel of 3rd powers maya users are literally begging for a port.

spherical
10-20-2015, 01:04 AM
Not being selfish or anything (yes I am) I hope that 3rd Powers doesn't take the bait.

cove
10-20-2015, 05:13 AM
Thanks for all your comments.

ernpchan,s comment---
------------------------------------------------------------
"2015's Modeler and Layout have different mesh engines.
2016 supposedly addresses this though it's still too early to tell what we'll be getting in the first release of 2016".
------------------------------------------------------------
suggests that i may not be to far wronge in the posibility of a new feature in LW2016 that overcomes the mesh joining issue. Hope we do not have to wait to long to find out.

bobakabob
10-20-2015, 11:48 AM
Not being selfish or anything (yes I am) I hope that 3rd Powers doesn't take the bait.

Lol, Yes, 3rd Powers have helped make LW truly innovative again in the modelling dept. For character modelling especially, Modeller has become a very special app. All a bit reminiscent of the LW 5 glory days... and it looks like AD Maya are keeping an eye on the underdog as some new sculpting tools in 2016 look remarkably similar to the basic LWBrush features. Nothing to rival Metamesh yet though.

jeric_synergy
10-20-2015, 11:52 AM
I'll jump on the 'selfish' train. To heck with those AD guys: HECK, I say!