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View Full Version : New Mac User with some serious issues - help - from South Afrca!



3dSquirrel
12-08-2003, 06:20 AM
Guys, Guys, Guys - the newest member to this forum has arrived, yours truly 3dSquirrel. I have a couple of queries with Lightwave and Mac - The first one being: will Lightwave 8 have all of these bugs and problems sorted out? The second issue i need an opinion on is: - Is there a way of using Graph Editor without layout crashing? Have some serious work that needs to be done, and without graph editor i'm stuffed. Please could someone inform me on what to do. On the whole I feel very let down by Apple as i have just converted from PC (Big Mistake). Thanks for the help and look forward to recieving my first bit of help about these frustraing issues to do with MacOSX. Cheers from Durban, South Africa.

mlinde
12-08-2003, 09:12 AM
Hi there 3dSquirrel.
First of all, Newtek has said a number of times that they are working to minimize the bugs in LW 8. That being said, of course, no software ships bug-free, so don't expect a miracle, just a solid product.

Second, you must be running 10.3.x, or some 10.3 variant. Unfortunately the only workaround for the Graph Editor bug is to install an older 10.2.x version of Mac OS X.

Welcome, sorry it's a rocky start.

drclare
12-08-2003, 07:34 PM
Don't be upset with Apple though. The problem with the graph editor lies withing Lightwave.

mlinde
12-08-2003, 09:21 PM
Right.
I mean, Apple did go and change the OpenGL routines, which brought out the issue, but it was OGL code in the GE that allowed the issue to come up at all. So make sure and blame Newtek, because two or three years ago they wrote code that is incompatible with changes Apple made two months ago.

Oh, was that sarcasm?

Soooo sorry.

3dSquirrel
12-08-2003, 11:43 PM
Great stuff - my first reply, feeling good but still a bit lost. Mlinde thanx for getting back to me, really appreciate it. Ill have to make a plan and do the necessary changes, bit of a mission, but here in South Africa : it's all or nothing. I was wandering? ~Does anyone know where i can download a tutorial on creating the liquid Mercury, the stuff fromTerminator 2 (The Movie). Not all that great with Lightwave as I'm still learning, and for that reason have no idea where to start. Thanks again for the replies, and just know that i'll definately keep in contact with you guys. Cheers.

drclare
12-09-2003, 12:07 AM
Well, whatever, i didn'y know about that. But my point is that Apple comes out with updates to their OS regularly. So does Newtek. But Apple is only concerned with making their computer run well. Apple can't be expected to call every third party software company and say "hey will your software work okay with this?" It is third party companies' responsibility to comply with the operating system.

3dSquirrel
12-09-2003, 12:40 AM
drclare - I see you feel very strongly about this whole issue. It's good to know that you are definately keen to let people know how you feel - point taken, just don't take these problems too too seriously - When is lightwave 8 coming out - need to know when i can upgrade. Cheers.

Beamtracer
12-09-2003, 12:50 AM
3Dsquirrel: Lightwave 7.5 runs pretty well on Mac OS 10.2.4, 10.2.7 and 10.2.8.

It's only 10.3 Panther that has all this trouble. Downgrading your OS for the time being will save you a lot of heartache. Put in a 10.2 disk, and select "archive and install" when installing it. Then move up to 10.2.4, which is available on Apple's website.

Well, we don't know how Lightwave 8 will be until it's released. Some of Newtek's recent comments make me hopeful that it will be very stable.

After Lightwave 8 is released, you'll see people posting their experiences here, so you'll know pretty quickly how it is.

3dSquirrel
12-09-2003, 01:08 AM
The best reply yet - thanks beamtracer, so you say I can download 10.2.4 from the Apple Web page? Also do you know when Lightwave 8 is coming out on the market? Thanks again, and keep in touch.

Beamtracer
12-09-2003, 04:00 AM
Hi Squirrel, Mac OS X 10.2.4 is still available on Apple's website. It upgrades earlier versions of OS X 10.2.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=70168

I've previously used 10.2.4 with LW7.5 on a G4 and it worked fine. I'd suggest this is the one to use.

Some other people on this forum have been using the newer 10.2.8 and said it's good. Newer may or may not be better, though. It's available on Apple's support pages.

bloontz
12-09-2003, 06:34 AM
If you don't own a full install of OS 10.2, I don't think that you can use the downloadable updates for 10.2 to go from 10.3.x to 10.2.x. The downloads for 10.2.x are updaters and not full installs.

fxgeek
12-09-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
Right.
I mean, Apple did go and change the OpenGL routines, which brought out the issue, but it was OGL code in the GE that allowed the issue to come up at all. So make sure and blame Newtek, because two or three years ago they wrote code that is incompatible with changes Apple made two months ago.

Oh, was that sarcasm?

Soooo sorry.

Then how come no other 3d software broke in this way? Apple can change it's GL code till the cows come home, if software is fully (text book) GL complient it won't break. The Graph editor has always been flakey in my experience. But your probably right, that's probably Apple's fault too for not re writing their code to suit NewTek.

mlinde
12-09-2003, 10:04 AM
Maybe no other 3D software utilizes so many OpenGL features on the Mac? I don't know.

This is a quote from Scott Thompson, the Newtek Macintosh specialist:

It turns out it seems to be something in 'smoothing polylines' in an OpenGL call list in our Graph Editor. (And, as a matter of fact... the G.E. *is* done in OpenGL! :-) ) That smoothing is not so necessary... nor using saved call lists... so we now redraw it when needed - voila no more crashing.
I'm interpreting this to mean that Newtek used an OGL call that is either
(a) no longer supported or
(b) was broken somehow in 10.3

Since I also get the Mac-OGL developers digest, I can tell you that there are bugs in OGL in 10.3. Whether this specific issue is a bug or a pre-determined change I don't know, but it was a change on Apple's part. And sure, Apple can change it's stuff til the cows come home. But if they make changes, they have as good a chance as anyone else to introduce bugs they didn't mean to, or to reveal previously hidden bugs.

I'm not saying Apple should write their software to support Newtek (that's pretty asinine). I'm saying that blaming Newtek for a change in Apple's OpenGL system is foolish. I've also said plenty of times that Newtek needs to address it. But you can't go blaming Newtek because Apple changed their code, and now things don't work. What you can do is ask that Newtek cope with Apple's changes.

All this crap about blaming someone is a great American pastime. Yes, there is a problem. Yes, everyone has acknowledged it. But no, there is no-one to blame for the problem, unless you blame EVERYONE involved.

drclare
12-09-2003, 12:05 PM
My whole point was that i didn't want 3dsquirrel to get down on macs because of this problem and think that it was a bad choice to switch from PC to Mac, except maybe in the LW department.

3dSquirrel
12-09-2003, 11:50 PM
Nice one drclare - it's not that I'm down on Macs, I mean at the moment the Mac that i'm using is a G5 Dual Processor, however, it only has 512 MB Ram, but a further 2.5 GIGS of Ram is on the way - Awesome. The rendering time on this computer will be something animators dream of. No more rendering in Low Antialiasing. Question: is it true that apple allowed Pixar to use the G5 Dual Processor as a test on their capabillities, in rendering 'Finding Nemo'? So to rephrase my previous statement - I feel let down with Newteks short sightedness, in not being able to see the future developments that Apple, or any comp. company for that matter, could or will make. Surely you make a programme that will be suitable for future upgrades on PC's, and Macs? I don't know, just a thought. Maybe a lack of communication between Newtek and Apple?

Beamtracer
12-10-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by 3dSquirrel
the Mac that i'm using is a G5 Dual Processor In that case ignore the link I posted to OS10.2.4. That's just for G4 machines. You'll have to upgrade to 10.2.7 or 10.2.8 which you'll find on Apple's website.



Originally posted by 3dSquirrel
I feel let down with Newteks short sightedness, in not being able to see the future developments that Apple, or any comp. company for that matter, could or will make.
Software breaks all the time when the OS is updated. All the time!!! This is nothing new. It's not unique to Newtek.

The issue is when and how the fix will happen. If you read the Mac press you'll see software companies all over the place releasing "OS X compliant" upgrades. Even some of Apple's own apps needed updates. Did Apple also have a communication problem with Apple?

I don't think it'll be too long before Newtek has a fix in some form or another. We should reassess the situation then.

3dSquirrel
12-10-2003, 12:29 AM
Thanx again beamtracer - could you give me some form of direction though: Do you know where i could grab a lightwave liquid tutorial? It's just that i have a job that needs doing and it requires me to re-create the Liquid Mercury. To be done within the next week - so it is quite urgent. If you could give me some form of advice i'd greatly appreciate it. And to further your point: I agree - maybe there is not enough communication between software companies and Comp. OS companies. (Apple and Microsoft). Unfortunately time is not on my side, so you can understand the dilemma I, and many other LightWave/Apple users, are faced with. Something needs to happen and it needs to happen faster than it is at the moment. Thanks again.

drclare
12-10-2003, 01:48 AM
As far as the liquid metal, i don't remember seeing any tutorials dealing with this, but i would suggest learning about hypervoxels. There are some tutorials dealing with this, search the newtek site. Basically with surface hypervoxels you can blend them together to get that melting effect. You can also attach them to particle generators. It might be a painstaking way to get what you after, but i think it would work. Of course you would need a good metal texture. Good luck.

bloontz
12-10-2003, 08:36 AM
You could also try metaballs for the mercury. Give them a reflective chrome surface.