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bellmore
10-01-2015, 04:58 PM
Is there an equivalent tool in Lightwave to extract geometry? The video shows what I want to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOpSKmCMSY

parm
10-01-2015, 05:16 PM
Is there an equivalent tool in Lightwave to extract geometry? The video shows what I want to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooOpSKmCMSY


You just have to cut and paste your selected geometry to separate it. Or, copy and paste your selected geometry into a new layer if you want to keep your original object intact.

ernpchan
10-01-2015, 05:17 PM
Cut/Paste into the same layer so the mesh is separated or Cut/Paste into a new layer or object file.

bellmore
10-01-2015, 05:25 PM
Thank you. So simple!!!

Wade
10-01-2015, 05:26 PM
You can also use "unweld" it is under the detail tab then the Points / More - unweld. This would make your ball to half balls... easy either way.

bellmore
10-01-2015, 05:55 PM
Is there a way to extrude geometry like what I do in the video? I have tried Extrude, size, smooth/multishift and have had no luck. The polygons get stretched. They do not extrude uniformly to their normals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6X_1KCbVf8&feature=youtu.be

ernpchan
10-01-2015, 05:57 PM
Your video is private?

bellmore
10-01-2015, 06:00 PM
Video should be working now.

hrgiger
10-01-2015, 06:05 PM
A few different ways. If you smooth shift just slightly then switch to the point normal tool, you can flatten out the extruded polygons, then scale them out. A little convoluted but same result.

http://prntscr.com/8mqist

bellmore
10-01-2015, 06:30 PM
Thank you. Works great!!

djwaterman
10-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Also the Transform tool could do this.

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Once the geometry is selected and the transform tool is centered, hit E to extrude and use the (N) transform tool numeric inputs to scale it out, or do it by eye.

jboudreau
10-01-2015, 07:29 PM
Also the Transform tool could do this.

130094
130095

Once the geometry is selected and the transform tool is centered, hit E to extrude and use the (N) transform tool numeric inputs to scale it out, or do it by eye.

Yeah but the only problem with this is the outside polygons are not flat (which is what bellmore is looking for) so you would still have to then select the middle row of points and use normal move to straighten them.

hrigers solution works

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
10-01-2015, 07:56 PM
Another way you could do it, In case you wanted to extrude out more than just 2 rows (maya's polyface extrue probably allows you to do that) is like this

Select 2, 3, 4 etc polygons like image below (Stacked on top of one another)

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Then use the band glue tool, it's found under construct tab / Reduce / more / bandglue. It will give you this result

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Now press the e on the keyboard (extender plus)

Now use the smooth shift tool

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You can then add as many segments to the outside polygons you want using connect or bandsaw pro

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The reason to do it this way is because the point normal tool won't work as well to flatten the outside edges with more than 2 polygon rows

Thanks,
Jason

djwaterman
10-01-2015, 08:40 PM
Yeah but the only problem with this is the outside polygons are not flat (which is what bellmore is looking for) so you would still have to then select the middle row of points and use normal move to straighten them.

hrigers solution works

Thanks,
Jason

But you could also use the transform tool to flatten down that middle row in the same way. I didn't catch that he was trying to flatten that band of polygons or I would have included that step. You could also select that middle edge loop, dissolve it so that it becomes a flattened bridge, then scale it out and if you still needed a dividing edge loop in there just put one in with (many tools for that) your method of choice.

jboudreau
10-01-2015, 08:51 PM
But you could also use the transform tool to flatten down that middle row in the same way. I didn't catch that he was trying to flatten that band of polygons or I would have included that step. You could also select that middle edge loop, dissolve it so that it becomes a flattened bridge, then scale it out and if you still needed a dividing edge loop in there just put one in with (many tools for that) your method of choice.

Yeah, that's very similar to my technique, just you're dissolving the edges after the transform and I'm band gluing before the smooth shift. This is what I love about lightwave there are so many ways to get to the same result.

Thanks for the tip, You can never have enough tricks :)

Thanks,
Jason

Surrealist.
10-01-2015, 11:27 PM
Great tips. But I think you guys are giving a lot more credit to the Maya extrude tool. :)

It is the same thing as Multishift, just out of the box with controls for inset and shift. Same thing. It is not actually doing anything else in that video from what I see. I use it everyday so I know what it does.;) Or at least I think I do... lol wouldn't be the first time I learned something completely new... but I am pretty sure there is nothing special going on there.

Multishift has more options for the normals. But with the sphere as an example you don't really get to see the subtleties that Multishift offers for more complex extrusions. And for that, LightWave is far better at modeling than most other apps maybe except Modo.

I have never found anything like Multishift anywhere. But I don't use Max so I don't know.

jboudreau
10-01-2015, 11:42 PM
Great tips. But I think you guys are giving a lot more credit to the Maya extrude tool. :)

The thing with the Maya extrude tool is you can select all the polygons in the row and extrude out wards keeping the outside polygons flat. With the multi-shift tool you have the same issue the polygons on the outside of the ring are not flat. So you have to band glue them, or delete the middle row of vertices, or delete the middle row of edges etc to give you the flat edge on the outside of the extrude. With the Maya tool it's just one step, where in lightwave there are extra steps to take to give the same result.

Hope this makes sense

Update:

Actually it's hard to tell from the video if the outer polygons are flat or not. Without seeing a side profile it's hard to tell. So if they aren't flat then you could use all kinds of tools for this.

Transform, Multi-Shift etc.

Thanks,
Jason

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 12:14 AM
Well lets just put it this way. Just as with any extrude tool of this nature. The extruded polygons will remain in whatever state they are before you extrude - with the exception of the inset amount which will scale them in or out.

In this particular video it looks fairly clear that it is just a default sphere extruded with two rows of polygons.

And it is nothing different than what you'd get in LightWave.

There are no other features in the Maya tool. Trust me. I model in Maya every day for a living.

All that was asked for was an extrude solution.

lol... I am not knocking the great tips. I am just trying to clarify that there is nothing special going on here for the sake of the guy coming over to LightWave from Maya.

Hope that is clear. :)

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 01:07 AM
It may help the OP, in the 'saturn' case, to examine what exactly the Extend command does: duplicates Selected polys in place.


Make a cube. Select a poly. Hit "e" (not "E"). Hit "T" for Move (historically, from Translate, but don't confuse it w/the newish Translate Tool).

Move the selected poly a bit. WITHOUT dropping the Move Tool, hit "e" again, and move a bit again. Do this several times.

Then hit TAB to change them all to subds.

EXERCISE 2:

Make a BALL, and use the Left/Right arrow keys to give it a 'waist' at the equator.

Select the 'waist' polys (this is easiest in wireframe, or select a couple and then use LOOP to select the entire waist)

Hit "e" to duplicate these polys in place.

Make sure your Action Center is "Selection" (versus Mouse, or Pivot, or Origin) and use SIZE to expand the waist outwards.

Hit "e" and repeate a couple times to get the feel. Hit TAB to change it all to subds.


Note: the official name of EXTEND seems to be "Extender Plus" found in the Multiply Tab of Modeler.

jwiede
10-02-2015, 01:20 AM
You just have to cut and paste your selected geometry to separate it. Or, copy and paste your selected geometry into a new layer if you want to keep your original object intact.

Well, yes and no. The difference is that Maya's "extract" converts the selection into a new, separate mesh. When you just cut & paste the geometry to a separate layer, it can be a separate "part", but it's all still within the same mesh/model (iow, LWO), which isn't quite the same result. For an equivalent in Modeler, cutting & pasting the geometry to a separate layer, and then saving that layer as a separate object/LWO would be about the closest.

If you're just recombining the various parts / meshes back together or such, and still only want a single mesh result, then cut & paste to a separate layer is sufficiently equivalent. The distinction would only really matter if you then wanted to use the separate mesh elements with animation, dynamics, or other systems where the Layout equivalent functionality requires separate objects/meshes as operands.

erikals
10-02-2015, 02:11 AM
Thank you. So simple!!!

yep, always wondered why Maya had to make it so darn hard... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/question.gif

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/lwicon.png

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 03:26 AM
I think in Maya it is completely simple. But you have the option to make it a separate Object or just separate the components. It is set to create a new Object container by default.

In LightWave there is a simpler system to work between object containers which is useful. So making a new object out of it is simply a matter of pasting into another layer.

In LightWave these layers are in effect Object Containers - as in Maya or most other apps. And when you send the object to Layout they kind of get converted to Object Containers.

I think there are some tools that do not work as well on objects that are layers, but I can't remember what they are off hand. But for the most part, they can be treated like Objects in Layout and most of the operations you perform on them in Layout will work equally well.

Pivot point can be changed in Layout or in Modeler. (without getting into the details of why how and the drawbacks of either method at this point)

Hope that helps the OP understand it better.

Farhad_azer
10-02-2015, 04:12 AM
Why is it that Multishift did not satisfy you? if u check group polygons and set shift to point normal then it will be perfectly ok.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 05:10 AM
Why is it that Multishift did not satisfy you? if u check group polygons and set shift to point normal then it will be perfectly ok.

This would be the right time to quote... lol

But I think if you are referring to the OP he sorted it already. And there was some confusion related to the images on the video which led some people to assume there was something else going on when there wasn't. In short. You are right. MS is he same thing as extrude tool in Maya (at least the new one). With the exception that MS has way more cool options :)

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 08:43 AM
This seems a tad confusing to me, used to LW's workflow: because Maya is unified, I guess a PASTE operation does NOT create a new 'Object', and hence the need for 'Extract'???? It just creates a disconnected section of the same 'Object'?

JoePoe
10-02-2015, 09:45 AM
You can also use "unweld" it is under the detail tab then the Points / More - unweld. This would make your ball to half balls... easy either way.

Please be careful with Unweld. The above is not correct (sorry). You will end up with the bottom half being made up of completely separate polys AND the bottom edge of the top half will all be double points.
Sure, a weld afterwards will recombine the elements of the meshes, but that's an extra step .... and probably one of the things people forget to do the most (that and merge after Boolean ;)).

bellmore
10-02-2015, 10:06 AM
Thank you everyone for all the replies and tips to get the things done. I am certainly going to use them. I am going to start using LightWave more than I do (every couple of months I might open Modeler and give up). I am glad that I finally asked some questions. I like LightWave's UI and hope that I can accomplish the task in LightWave. Thank you again.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 10:21 AM
This seems a tad confusing to me, used to LW's workflow: because Maya is unified, I guess a PASTE operation does NOT create a new 'Object', and hence the need for 'Extract'???? It just creates a disconnected section of the same 'Object'?


Well actually no. If you select an Object in Maya and use the copy and paste commands you will make a duplicate of that object on the object level similar to Clone in Layout or the Duplicate command in Maya. Cut is redundant in a way in this case with Delete, but it works. So on the object level in Maya you can cut copy and paste at the object level to your hearts desire. It will create an extra transform node for it. But that is another story.

On the component level it is somewhat unique. What are we doing actually in Modeler?

1) Separating parts of the mesh (detaching or extracting)
2) Duplicating the components
3) Moving them around on Layers.

The commands Cut and Paste in the instance of separation in one layer are redundant for one command. Extract (or separate)

In Maya there is one command for this. Simply Extract -with options to keep the mesh in one Object Container (not layer) or to Make a new object out of the extraction by placing it within a separate Object Container. So in this case again Cut and Paste is two actions where only one is required.

Duplicating is using Copy and Paste. Again one action Duplicate which takes two commands Copy Paste. This works in Maya at the object level if you want to do it that way. Or there is one command for Duplicate. And this applies to the component level as well. You use one command to duplicate faces. And it also has an option to just make a copy or also to make it a separate Object.

Another command you have in Maya is combine. This would be to take two mesh containers and join them as one.

In Modeler this would be the same as cut and paste two layers - or more - into one. Whereas again this is two actions when only one is required. Combine.

Further confusing the issue is the fact that there is no consistency between the Layers in Modeler and what happens when sent to Layout.

When sent to Layout, these layers that once had all kinds of interesting functionality with different tools, now become Object Containers. And there are no Layers in Layout. Only Object Containers.

In Maya you have Object Containers and "proper" Layers that can contain many object containers.

Does this help at all?

Wade
10-02-2015, 10:23 AM
Please be careful with Unweld. The above is not correct (sorry). You will end up with the bottom half being made up of completely separate polys AND the bottom edge of the top half will all be double points.
Sure, a weld afterwards will recombine the elements of the meshes, but that's an extra step .... and probably one of the things people forget to do the most (that and merge after Boolean ;)).

You are correct - you would need to then weld the points that had been un-welded. Thanks for catching that.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 10:27 AM
Thank you everyone for all the replies and tips to get the things done. I am certainly going to use them. I am going to start using LightWave more than I do (every couple of months I might open Modeler and give up). I am glad that I finally asked some questions. I like LightWave's UI and hope that I can accomplish the task in LightWave. Thank you again.

Just remember that it has always been the case that there are people using LightWave along side other apps. Don't be afraid to ask Maya transition questions. There will be people here who use both to help you get familiar and ease the transition.

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 10:29 AM
Surrealist, thanks for the explication. And yes, the confusion about the definition of "object" between Layout and Modeler continues to be a thorn in our sides.

Like the shape of Stewie's head in 3d, they "really didn't think that one thru".

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 10:57 AM
Yes that is true. We say things like having two or more objects in one Layer in Modeler. We should be saying we have two contiguous meshes in one Layer in Modeler.

The other confusing concept perhaps is Object Containers and Object. In most systems you just say Object. I say Object Container because I want to be specific as to what it actually is. It is a container that holds mesh data.

In Modeler you are also forced into a bad habit of Modeling. This comes into play when your are actually are forced to move a mesh around from object center. This makes extra work later and can complicate things in Layout. So this means you are always moving things on the mesh level even in cases when it is better and faster in the long run to position them at the Object level. In a lot of situations you want to keep the object at 0,0,0.

It is one thing if you are making a bunch of disconnected things like furniture or props that could be separate objects anyway. But when building something that has reference to itself such as machinery or a robot or something, it just makes more work potentially. And so now you may find you need to adjust pivots and so on.

There are workaround for this of course. Center pivot etc.

And I am not saying this to rag on the Modeler way, or anything. I am just trying to further illustrate what is actually happening between Layout and Modeler.

It is best to think of Modeler as a Component Edit Mode for the Object (container) in Layout.

This is the best way that it translates to people who use other packages I think.

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 11:18 AM
At one point, NewTek made a point of calling LWOs "multimesh objects", but they never built an architecture in Layout that really, imo, reflected this fundamental change in how geometry was represented. They continued to call them Objects, but the line between Object and Layer was smudged.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 12:30 PM
When was that? I must have missed it.

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 12:44 PM
VERY early on. I don't clearly recall, but I think all Layers got presented as a single mesh--- but really, I forget how it worked.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 12:51 PM
Very early you mean pre-toaster? Or somewhere between versions 1-3?

Because I don't remember it from say 3.5 to 4.0. I was out of touch from say 5-8.

Just curious.

jeric_synergy
10-02-2015, 01:14 PM
Might have been as early as 1.0. Toaster-era. It was a big deal at the time.

Surrealist.
10-02-2015, 02:47 PM
Interesting. Yeah that first release was something alright. OK, clears that up. Thanks.