PDA

View Full Version : New pricing model...



Pages : [1] 2 3

jwiede
09-25-2015, 07:02 PM
Just read the newly-announced pricing model, per this LW3DG offer (https://www.lightwave3d.com/crossgrade_promo/):


With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be: LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

I have no doubts the zealots will have no problems with any of it, but what about the opinions of the rest?

I give LW3DG thumbs up on handling for charter/post-charter folks short-term, long-term ofc. depends on whether this latest pricing really "persists". At least they're finally being realistic and no longer penalizing charter/post-charter folks, which is a good step, IMO.

ernpchan
09-25-2015, 07:10 PM
I give LW3DG thumbs up on handling for charter/post-charter folks short-term...

Yep, can't say they're not trying. I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.

jwiede
09-25-2015, 07:32 PM
I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.

The email refers to the web posting, apparently referring to the text I quoted in the post I quoted.

Given charter/post-charter are required to stay current, and staying current yields a $295 upgrade price in future release(s) for any current license holders, there effectively isn't any reason for charter/post-charter anymore. The only thing that would meaningfully change that would be if they went back to pricing where upgrades potentially cost >$395/$495 -- not impossible, hence my comment about whether pricing "persists", as lately LW3DG pricing models' longevity has been quite limited.

Short-term, a good step, longer-term, who knows. How they handle LW2016* will tell MUCH more about LW3DG's future than this, though, I suspect.

*: The latest offer did rather clearly imply the next version would release very soon. That, in turn, strongly hints LW3DG is now functioning on an annual release model -- time will tell whether LW3DG can produce enough to justify a $295 annual upgrade cost, I definitely have some doubts there.

Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?

Megalodon2.0
09-25-2015, 08:00 PM
So let me get this straight...

When this begins, Lightwave will no longer have their incredible upgrade system where you can upgrade from any version for the same price?

And the upgrade price will then be close to 70% of the full retail price for anyone more than one version back?

If this is the case - and I hope I'm wrong - then LW3DG keeps going further down the tubes - IMO.

Looks like I'll be selling MOST of my licenses since they would cost me FAR more to upgrade them than they are worth.

robpowers3d
09-25-2015, 08:36 PM
Megalodon,

if you stay current by taking advantage of this current offer of $395 for the upgrade to LightWave 2015 (If you haven't already) then you have a really great future upgrade price of $295 starting with the next version release of the software when our pricing plan changes. I feel strongly that this is an amazing deal and we really do want to reward our customers that support us by staying current with the releases. We especially wanted to reward our charter and post-charter members by making this offer available to them immediately.

robpowers3d
09-25-2015, 09:06 PM
Yep, can't say they're not trying. I'm curious as well if this is a one-time offer or new pricing for charter people.

Hi Ernest,
The plan is that this will be ongoing upgrade price for those of you that stay current starting with the next major release of LightWave and trust me, that is a release that you don't want to miss out on, when I say it will begin a new era for LightWave innovation I am serious about that. More details will be coming in the next few weeks. The decision to take advantage of our current offer is really up to each individual but I personally think that rewarding those that support our development so much through staying current is a great way to say thank you.

Megalodon2.0
09-25-2015, 09:07 PM
Megalodon,

if you stay current by taking advantage of this current offer of $395 for an upgrade then you have a really great future upgrade price of $295 starting with the next version release of the software when our pricing plan changes. I feel strongly that this is an amazing deal and we really do want to reward our customers that support us by staying current with the releases. We especially wanted to reward our charter and post-charter members by making this offer available to them immediately.

Considering how LW is lagging behind the other major 3D apps - and continues to be split with ZERO INDICATION that integration is actually even starting to take place... changing your upgrade policy is not warranted. It was one of THE pluses that I have always touted about Lightwave and mentioned when defending it in other forums.

And offering future upgrades for those not current at nearly 67% of the regular price... sorry Rob, that's just not right. What's next? Subscription Only?

You intentionally refuse to communicate with your customers - though I'm sure several diehard fans will come here and refute that as they always do - and then communicate by hitting us with "Stay Current or PAY the price."

Fine Rob. You just keep pushing customers away. Ultimately it looks like all of my investments in Lightwave - my 11 licenses - as well as over $20k of plugins over the years, will be relegated to the junk software drawer. I find it incredibly sad that the one software app that I LONGED to buy back in the early 90's I now no longer even like. The company I worked for used cracked versions - I vowed that if ever I started my own business I would BUY a legal license. I did - and then bought more than the number of employees that used cracked versions where I used to work. It was my way of supporting Newtek.

During the last few years, the path that the LW3DG has chosen to pursue is not one that is customer-friendly. Previously I supported LW because I believed in the company. Now - and after talking with many current and former 'wavers - I no longer believe that.

I wish you well, but I think that all of the management decisions within the last few years have been bad and ill-advised. Your customers have asked for communication - yet you procrastinate and show everyone that nothing has changed. It's too bad that your one post in here has to be answered with one that is negative.

Good luck LW3DG.

jwiede
09-25-2015, 09:11 PM
So let me get this straight...

When this begins, Lightwave will no longer have their incredible upgrade system where you can upgrade from any version for the same price?

Apparently that is correct, going forward.


And the upgrade price will then be close to 70% of the full retail price for anyone more than one version back?Ouch, good point (I'd overlooked that detail), and yes, apparently correct.


If this is the case - and I hope I'm wrong - then LW3DG keeps going further down the tubes - IMO.As a customer, I can't really say I "like" all their recent decisions (though I DO like some of them), but I do find myself at least better able to understand the current batch of decisions, versus batches in the not-so-past which still don't appear to make any long-term sense at all.

Annual cost? Makes sense, LW3DG clearly has a serious revenue problem, so short of subscription revenue (which they lack the customer base to really capitalize upon) their approach is pretty decent alternative that still leaves them the ability to brag that they are not a subscription vendor.

That said, I think LW3DG already have significant trouble keeping engineering output and quality consistently high enough to satisfy customers release after release, and more frequent version releases will seriously exacerbate that issue. Time will tell. If LW version upgrades become primarily vehicles for bug fixes to prior versions' bugs, LW will quickly fade to black. OTOH, if LW3DG can revitalize and maintain new development while sustaining quality at an acceptable level within version cycles, LW3DG might again be able to garner the more reliable revenue stream they so obviously need.

calilifestyle
09-25-2015, 09:15 PM
The email refers to the web posting, apparently referring to the text I quoted in the post I quoted.

Given charter/post-charter are required to stay current, and staying current yields a $295 upgrade price in future release(s) for any current license holders, there effectively isn't any reason for charter/post-charter anymore. The only thing that would meaningfully change that would be if they went back to pricing where upgrades potentially cost >$395/$495 -- not impossible, hence my comment about whether pricing "persists", as lately LW3DG pricing models' longevity has been quite limited.

Short-term, a good step, longer-term, who knows. How they handle LW2016* will tell MUCH more about LW3DG's future than this, though, I suspect.

*: The latest offer did rather clearly imply the next version would release very soon. That, in turn, strongly hints LW3DG is now functioning on an annual release model -- time will tell whether LW3DG can produce enough to justify a $295 annual upgrade cost, I definitely have some doubts there.

Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?

Modo upgrade price hasn't changed . i have 601 and can still upgrade for the same price to 901.
unless something has been stated.

jwiede
09-25-2015, 09:21 PM
Modo upgrade price hasn't changed . i have 601 and can still upgrade for the same price to 901.
unless something has been stated.

Sorry, I probably needed to be clearer, but didn't want to edit more: They were denigrating how modo's annual upgrade cycle implicitly caused quality issues, and I was wondering how they'd be able to explain LW moving to an annual cycle as a good thing in light of that. I was not suggesting any other pkgs' pricing models had changed.

calilifestyle
09-25-2015, 09:42 PM
I guess it doesn't hurt for wait for lw2016. if upgrade now and then again in the next few weeks that's 690. I know i'll save 100 bucks, but what if lw2016 doen't have what i need/want.
if they would hook me up now with 295 upgrade...then for sure.

GandB
09-25-2015, 09:54 PM
Well, unless the upgrade from V9 to 2016 (is it?) is over $700; then I won't be saving anything by taking this path. Judging from past precedent (and the way the game dev community has been largely ignored here); I don't think I'll be pre-ordering anything. I will, however, keep an eye on the "big" release when it happens.

roboman
09-25-2015, 10:06 PM
The e-mail you sent out seems badly worded:


LightWave 2015 Last Chance Upgrade Promotion
Last Chance $295 Upgrade Now!

A Special Note to Our Charter and Post-Charter Members


We have received a number of requests to simplify the upgrade program from our Charter and Post-Charter members who have found the process somewhat confusing. In the past you received the special upgrade price of $495 or $395 depending on your Charter program status.

We heard your requests and we think we have come up with an easier approach for everyone.

It’s this simple: remain current with LightWave and receive the special upgrade price of $295. As Charter and Post-Charter members we are giving you the opportunity to take advantage of this upgrade price now!

Act now to ensure your special upgrade pricing before promotion ends!
Last Chance $295 Upgrade Now!
Limited time offer! Ends September 30, 2015

Sounds like an offer of an upgrade to 2015 at a price of $295. What ever, I'll be ordering my upgrade to 2015 at $395.

Ernest
09-25-2015, 10:17 PM
We're current so, if the next LW version is good, this would be great for us. However, objectively, having to almost buy the package again if you ever miss 1 upgrade is too harsh.

If this is necessary, and it might well be, there should, at least, be 1 or 2 upgrade cycles for 495 before dropping the full $800 bus on people who had a bad year. Especially those with multiple licenses who are able to upgrade some but can't upgrade all every single year.

Shabazzy
09-25-2015, 11:05 PM
I have to say, I'm really loving this deal. As a post-charter member I held off upgrading to LW2015 and I'm kinda glad I did since now I'm able to get it and all future upgrades for $295.

The only concern I have is whether LW3DUG are going to start releasing new versions of LW annually, because if they are then I'd have to say that's not far off from being an annual subscription system which is not something I agree with. I'd much prefer releases to come every two or so years so I can get my money's worth.

Still, for now I think this is a great deal.

CaptainMarlowe
09-25-2015, 11:20 PM
I like the 295$ upgrade price and that it is available for charter members. I will upgrade today, then. As for the non-curent upgrade price, maybe a bit overpriced, I guess that the former 695$ would have been OK. But I certainly understand the need for a regular cash flow. Let's hope the next version is really the huge stop forward announced by Rob - especially for modeler. I sure could take advantage of better high poly mesh handling in modeler.

BokadCastle
09-25-2015, 11:51 PM
I like the 295$ upgrade price and that it is available for charter members. I will upgrade today, then.
I'm a charter member, CORE that is. So it's $295USD one time or for the rest of my $395USDx4 payments - that would be $295USDx4. HUH?
I'll check this again in the morning.

If you upgrade once for $295USD, do you lose the remaining charter member pricing of $395USD?

madno
09-25-2015, 11:52 PM
295$ to stay current seems fair to me.

But why do they first send the message "buy now or you pay more later", and not "soon there is the great new Lightwave"?
Now everybody is talking (and some complaining) about price, instead of the (hopefully) great new LW that is worth every penny they ask for.
If I understand it right, those ones not on LW 2015 should buy now blindly and hoping for LW2016, because when 2016 is available, they loose the 295$ price and need to pay 795$.

Or do I totally missunderstand this?

probiner
09-25-2015, 11:53 PM
€325.95 (Includes €60.95 VAT (23% on €265.00)) for me with the charter discount http://prntscr.com/8kks7s

I understand you guys need funds, but I need the application to do certain things for me too, which it hasn't. Only thing 2015 has to offer me is some bug fixes. And afterwards it's going to be hard to justify 873.3€ unless things change a lot. So, I don't know...

madno
09-26-2015, 12:10 AM
probiner,

exactly what I was talking about. LW3DG makes an offer that in my opinion creates a negative feeling, because it introduces pressure to pay now, without knowing whether it will be worth it regarding 2016. It's not up to me to judge the marketing, but I would have never communicated it that way.
If LW 2016 has really some cool new, better, whatever, then tell us about it guys, and then ask for the money instead of vice versa.

CaptainMarlowe
09-26-2015, 12:19 AM
Yeah, maybe a bit of a leap of faith... This said, I was hoping to buy LW2015 at some point and had almost spared the cash. With the current 295$ (318€ for me with VAT), I can afford it, so, it's a perfect timing for me, and even if 2016 wasn't the huge step forward announced, there are plenty of 2015 stuff I've been willing to use (bullet constraints, match perspective, per object clip maps, to name a few) for some time, so it wouldn't be wasted money, in my personal case.

spherical
09-26-2015, 12:36 AM
If you upgrade once for $295USD, do you lose the remaining charter member pricing of $395USD?

Roboman seems to have the same idea.

Read Rob's post #5:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445902&viewfull=1#post1445902

Why would you want to keep the $395 price? Charter/Post-Charter are going away; at a $100/$200 drop in price. It is an incentive to keep current; just like Charter/Post-Charter were. The difference, as Shabazzy points out, is that the release cycle has now changed from "When It's Ready" to "Every Frigging Year, Ready Or Not". Subscription by any other name smells just as bad. Still, for less than $25/mo, not an entirely bad deal. But the penalty for missing one upgrade is a bit too steep for those who have an unfortunate year. Potential for lots of disappointment there as well, as pressure to release on a specified annual date will most likely result in a very large Beta team being conscripted... as many have seen elsewhere that shall go unnamed.

MonroePoteet
09-26-2015, 12:47 AM
What are "Charter Members" and "Post-Charter Members", and what is (or will be) the pricing for someone (i.e. me) who apparently isn't either of them?

mTp

erikals
09-26-2015, 01:00 AM
i don't have a lot of cash, but honestly, that's not NewTek's problem
bit short time frame though, September 30, 2015 (4 days)

+23% vat, but that's the new game, not NewTek's fault

i will however skip this one, since 2015 was weak for many of us Modelers, and no sign of integration, speed-ups, + bad FiberFX bugs
i'm willing to lose the charter

however, if 2016 is great, i'll buy it... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


Modeler fixes i asked NewTek to integrate into LightWave 2015
...basically none of these were implemented :/

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139159-Modeler-Fixes-Updates



see, we shall... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/yoda.gif


don't get me wrong though, still Løve LightWave http://findicons.com/files/icons/2015/24x24_free_application/24/heart.png

Wickedpup
09-26-2015, 01:26 AM
What is preventing them from raise the prices on LW 2017 when we get there? So isnīt this just a way of circumventing (or erradicating) the previous "charter 5 versions fixed price" deal? If so Iīm not that sure that I like it.....I already did my charter upgrade, then they announced LW on sale for the same price. And now everyone can get it for $100 less. So I can not say I feel rewarded for staying current.

erikals
09-26-2015, 01:29 AM
- edit, misread -

roboman
09-26-2015, 01:34 AM
MonroePoteet: Lightwave was doing a total rewrite, that they were calling core. They decided to sell the software before they wrote it. If you bought in you got a charter membership, meaning you got access to the program in it's alpha state, as they wrote it and access to a private board dedicated to core. Post charter members are those who bought in later to the core project.Then the project was shut down. There was some back and forth about refunds and apparently some were given. Every one else who bought into core was promised a fixed low price on the next several releases of lightwave.

A posting said: With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be:

LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

robpowers3d (President, the LightWave Group) posted:
if you stay current by taking advantage of this current offer of $395 for the upgrade to LightWave 2015

An e-mail offer I got sounded like they were offering me an upgrade to 2015 for $295, but what robpowers3d (President, the LightWave Group) posted, it seems to be $395. The order page said $395, but the page I actually bought it on said $295. They charged my credit card $295

Best bet is to call or see what pops up on the page where you actually fill in your credit card number to order it from

creacon
09-26-2015, 02:39 AM
If my clients would reply to information I give them in this manner, I would stop communicating too!


creacon


Considering how LW is lagging behind the other major 3D apps - and continues to be split with ZERO INDICATION that integration is actually even starting to take place... changing your upgrade policy is not warranted. It was one of THE pluses that I have always touted about Lightwave and mentioned when defending it in other forums.

And offering future upgrades for those not current at nearly 67% of the regular price... sorry Rob, that's just not right. What's next? Subscription Only?

You intentionally refuse to communicate with your customers - though I'm sure several diehard fans will come here and refute that as they always do - and then communicate by hitting us with "Stay Current or PAY the price."

Fine Rob. You just keep pushing customers away. Ultimately it looks like all of my investments in Lightwave - my 11 licenses - as well as over $20k of plugins over the years, will be relegated to the junk software drawer. I find it incredibly sad that the one software app that I LONGED to buy back in the early 90's I now no longer even like. The company I worked for used cracked versions - I vowed that if ever I started my own business I would BUY a legal license. I did - and then bought more than the number of employees that used cracked versions where I used to work. It was my way of supporting Newtek.

During the last few years, the path that the LW3DG has chosen to pursue is not one that is customer-friendly. Previously I supported LW because I believed in the company. Now - and after talking with many current and former 'wavers - I no longer believe that.

I wish you well, but I think that all of the management decisions within the last few years have been bad and ill-advised. Your customers have asked for communication - yet you procrastinate and show everyone that nothing has changed. It's too bad that your one post in here has to be answered with one that is negative.

Good luck LW3DG.

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 02:42 AM
Where did you folks get the pricing info from? All I got was this:




LightWave 2015 Crossgrade / Upgrade Promotion
Buy Now

Get Current and Take Advantage of the Final 2015 Crossgrade / Upgrade Promotion For a Very Limited Time, and Save Big on Future LightWave Upgrades!


For a limited time the LightWave 3DŪ Group, a division of NewTek, Inc., is offering a special upgrade pricing of $395 (USD) and a Crossgrade price of $695 (USD) for a Full License, to LightWave 2015.

This will be the last Crossgrade / Upgrade offer for LightWave 2015 prior to the next release of the software which will introduce a new LightWave pricing program. As a special thank you to our loyal customers, LightWave users who own the current version will benefit from preferential upgrade pricing for future releases.

The Special Crossgrade pricing is also available to artists using other 2D and 3D software programs *.

By taking advantage of this Crossgrade / Upgrade offer and getting current with LightWave 2015, users will receive considerable savings on future LightWave upgrades.

No mention of future pricing at all!

Yet again, LW3DG fails on communication, and nebulous promises about how good things are going to be no longer cut it I'm afraid. if you want my money, you need to show me what I'm buying. 2015 wasn't it, and I have my doubts about 2016. I'm just going to hang onto 11.6, and maybe upgrade after 2016 has been out for a few months, I'm sure stuff like the SIGGRAPH offers will still occur.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 03:06 AM
Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?

That depends on if LW3DG does actually release annually and if the releases continue to be as stable as they have been previously. Personally, my crit of Modo releasing annually is that their releases are usually buggy as hell and then you have to wait for a patch or two to get something more stable.

Wickedpup
09-26-2015, 03:10 AM
Where did you folks get the pricing info from?
No mention of future pricing at all!

https://www.lightwave3d.com/crossgrade_promo/

"With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be:

LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195"



Hmm, I also seem to recall a bunch of highly-LW3DG-devoted folks recently denigrating The Foundry over modo's annual upgrade cycle. I wonder how they'll put a positive spin on LW3DG moving to the same cycle?

Some people here use every god-given opportunity to denigrate Modo :devil:

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 03:19 AM
So why wasn't that info in the email?

It's like a kidnap ransom note with no amount. I want "proof of life" before I pay anything. :D

nmh
09-26-2015, 03:26 AM
I don't need LW2015 (no new modeler stuff..), so I have to buy it and HOPE that LW2016 will have some major modeler improvements.
no communication, pay now and hope (or pay a lot of more)
I don't think so..
In monday I will buy MODO (40% discount)

OnlineRender
09-26-2015, 03:26 AM
if they make 2015 free to the educational sector , I honestly dont care about the update price.

OnlineRender
09-26-2015, 03:33 AM
If my clients would reply to information I give them in this manner, I would stop communicating too!


creacon

lol

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 03:39 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, Rob seemed to indicate that the $295 price would be ongoing if you stayed current with LightWave. And if that's the case, then I think it's good. You can't blame them for want to encourage people to upgrade and those complaining about the $795 upgrade will save money in the long run when they only have to pay $295 for future releases. All of this hinges of course on LW3DG putting out releases that will make you want to upgrade. Rob is implying this next release is a more substantial upgrade, let's wait to see what they have to show.

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 03:42 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, Rob seemed to indicate that the $295 price would be ongoing if you stayed current with LightWave. And if that's the case, then I think it's good. You can't blame them for want to encourage people to upgrade and those complaining about the $795 upgrade will save money in the long run when they only have to pay $295 for future releases. All of this hinges of course on LW3DG putting out releases that will make you want to upgrade. Rob is implying this next release is a more substantial upgrade, let's wait to see what they have to show.

Indeed, and that's all fair enough. I would have absolutely no problem with this new upgrade regime, if it had been announced after the launch of 2016.

djwaterman
09-26-2015, 03:58 AM
Four days to decide, nah, I'll wait and see what the next release has, it's only a hundred bucks extra if I get it then. I think 2015 was a pretty good release but it had nothing I desperately needed so I'll wait to see what 2016 has to offer.

Wickedpup
09-26-2015, 04:02 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, Rob seemed to indicate that the $295 price would be ongoing if you stayed current with LightWave. And if that's the case, then I think it's good. You can't blame them for want to encourage people to upgrade and those complaining about the $795 upgrade will save money in the long run when they only have to pay $295 for future releases. All of this hinges of course on LW3DG putting out releases that will make you want to upgrade. Rob is implying this next release is a more substantial upgrade, let's wait to see what they have to show.

Rob implies that it is a substantial upgrade. But that seems to contradict the "ongoing price". If you run a business, you release a product and your sales go up (possibly by a significant number), do you raise your prices? Yes, of course. Wouldnīt that be the logical thing to do to increase revenue?

lino.grandi
09-26-2015, 04:04 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, Rob seemed to indicate that the $295 price would be ongoing if you stayed current with LightWave. And if that's the case, then I think it's good.

Yes, that's exactly the case.

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 04:18 AM
Here is how this reads to me mathematically.

I pay 395 now to get LightWave 2015. Then when 2016 is released I then pay another 295.

That is $690 USD.

If however I take the wait and see approach, then I pay $795 from any previous non current version as I understand it

By acting before then I save $105.

So for me there is Zero incentive to take advantage of any upgrade offer now. That is now I see it as no matter what I do it is going to be 700-800 to get to the current version at any time in the future.

Am I getting this correct?

Anyways, in general good to see things moving and it is going to cost money. I am OK with that.

I just don't see saving anything much with this current offer. Not enough to take any chances anyway. I'd have to see the changes and get my hands on a trial first. And that is worth 100 bucks to me.

erikals
09-26-2015, 04:30 AM
so new 'Charter/Post-Charter' prices are >

LW2015 - $295
LW2016 - $295
LW2017 - $295
LW2018 - $295
LW2019 - regular price

unless you skip one, then the deal is off

can't claim that is a bad deal... might jump on it... might...

Waves of light
09-26-2015, 04:38 AM
so new 'Charter/Post-Charter' prices are >

LW2015 - $295
LW2016 - $295
LW2017 - $295
LW2018 - $295
LW2019 - regular price

unless you skip one, then the deal is off

can't claim that is a bad deal... might jump on it... might...

Yep.. that's pretty much it, also long as you grab 2015 in the next couple of days. So it's $590 for 2015 and 2016... or if you want to skip it's $795 for 2016, so a saving of $205 if you want to look at it that way.

Works for me.

motivalex
09-26-2015, 04:40 AM
The new price for keeping current with Lightwave is Excellent for some users such as myself. However they have shot themselves in the foot by announcing the offer now which expires in just a few days time.

They should keep the offer open until LW2016 is released or release substantial info on LW2016 at least. I need to see evidence that Lightwave is on a new direction in LW2016. Been here before with the promise of Core. I smelled a rat then and didn't go for it and I was right. Don't smell a rat with this one, but I think due to historical issues they should allow the faithful userbase a chance to see what they are buying into, as trust with core and the lacklustre LW2015 (LW11.7 with a little extra) is bothersome still with some longterm LW users.

Marander
09-26-2015, 05:11 AM
Huge disappointment for me today. I bought 11.6 and never got feature upgrades and some known bugs in 11.6.3 will probably never be fixed. I personally have no need for 2015 and the 2016 upgrade for $795 is huge for me as hobbyist (or the combined 4 day offer for $395 and $295 without knowing any detail what's coming).

Too bad, I was looking forward to a reasonable 2016 upgrade maybe with a nice Octane bundle.

Maybe with the offer to switch to the current version pricing model starting now I would change my mind, that would be 11.6.3 to 2015 for $295 and 2015 to 2016 for another $295. I think that would have been an ok offer for 11.6 customers that wanted to skip 2015.

adk
09-26-2015, 05:16 AM
I'm quite intrigued by Rob's words about the new era of LW innovation but guess I'll have to wait a few more weeks to find out more. So for those of us who are tickety boo charter members and on 2015 already there seems to be nothing to do but wait till release then it's $295 from there on? Do I have that right?

erikals
09-26-2015, 05:23 AM
Marander, 2016 upgrade with Octane bundle,
i'm sure we'll see more LW bundles in the future, so NewTek's promotion today is a win-win in my opinion

and all upgrades are risky, no guarantees, just look at Maya/Modo/Max... and xSI

+take Maya for example, 1600 € /year... forced subscription, no thanks!
(there are several lacks in Maya, though much in Maya is super-great also, it's just not for me)
(i welcome the Maya 200 € /month though, good for certain VFX operations, etc)


So for those of us who are tickety boo charter members and on 2015 already there seems to be nothing to do but wait till release then it's $295 from there on? Do I have that right?
it doesn't say, would make sense though...

Marander
09-26-2015, 05:50 AM
Marander, 2016 upgrade with Octane bundle,
i'm sure we'll see more LW bundles in the future, so NewTek's promotion today is a win-win in my opinion

and all upgrades are risky, no guarantees, just look at Maya/Modo/Max... and xSI

+take Maya for example, 1600 € /year... forced subscription, no thanks!
(there are several lacks in Maya, though much in Maya is super-great also, it's just not for me)
(i welcome the Maya 200 € /month though, good for certain VFX operations, etc)


it doesn't say, would make sense though...

Erikalst, yes I agree. I can't stand subscription software, that's no option for me.

I'm happy with LW and for an offer for 11.6 to 2015 for $295 I would instantly jump to the new pricing model. Which I must say is very fair once you're there. Same goes for $495 if you're still on v9.

I think there are many users who only wanted to leave out the 2015 upgrade.

So LW3D Group, can't you offer a $295 upgrade for 11.6.x to 2015 (just make the new pricing model available as of today)?

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 06:10 AM
Erikalst, yes I agree. I can't stand subscription software, that's no option for me.

I'm happy with LW and for an offer for 11.6 to 2015 for $295 I would instantly jump to the new pricing model. Which I must say is very fair once you're there. Same goes for $495 if you're still on v9.

I think there are many users who only wanted to leave out the 2015 upgrade.

So LW3D Group, can't you offer a $295 upgrade for 11.6.x to 2015?

That would be defeating the point. The new pricing model is there to encourage users to keep current with their software, why would they allow users to bypass the very thing they are trying to do?

Marander
09-26-2015, 06:15 AM
That's exactly what I would want, just make the new pricing model available as of today (that would be for 11.6.3 only).

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 06:31 AM
Huge disappointment for me today. I bought 11.6 and never got feature upgrades and some known bugs in 11.6.3 will probably never be fixed. .

Sure you did, you got LW 11, LW 11.5 and then you got 11.6, you just got them all at once because you upgraded late in the 11 series.

Chris S. (Fez)
09-26-2015, 06:38 AM
I already have 2015 but posting a preliminary 2016 list in the charter section as a final courtesy might entice some of the more disenchanted members to upgrade. Glad everyone is getting the same deal. Feels like a fresh start for Lightwave and the community.

Luc_Feri
09-26-2015, 06:39 AM
I'm more than happy with this commitment from LW3D group to keep future upgrades @ $295.

I upgraded only a couple of months ago, at the $395 price so I will probably save $105 bucks when the 2016 version drops but I'm ok with this. The thing is you won't have to rush to buy 2016 and no doubt there will be offers 6-9 months on from release date so we can see how it pans out.

Modo can release all the bells and whistles it wants but if the product is as flaky as it seems I ain't bothering at all with that. There are rumours of a new license sysyem with Modo almost as if the next 40% or 20% flash sale they are having soon will be the instant death of the same flexable upgrade from any previous version. The only crashes I get with LW are mainly repeatable and are easy to work around just to get into a nice flow, Modo can crash at the drop of a fart and is hard to debug.

I bought in at 11 with a free upgrade to 11.5 and had some great free point releases, that deal was amazing and I want to repay LW3DG for that alone. :D

The bullet system as a whole and dynamics constraints released in 2015 IMO is the most simplistic and easiest of anything I ever used for something of that complexity. Amazing work!! :D

Octane will be moving to version 3.0 in the near future, maybe they would offer a LW2016 bundle with the current one but they will have to be quick. ;)

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 07:18 AM
Yep.. that's pretty much it, also long as you grab 2015 in the next couple of days. So it's $590 for 2015 and 2016... or if you want to skip it's $795 for 2016, so a saving of $205 if you want to look at it that way.

Works for me.

It is actually 690 and only a savings of 105. It is that old marketing trick where you get people to look at 3,2 and 7. Rather than 3,4 and 8, which it actually is - less 10 bucks which adds up quite differently. So it is actually about a 13% discount.

Good news though all around as far as LightWave. Will be interesting to see what they have up their sleeve.

Waves of light
09-26-2015, 07:33 AM
It is actually 690 and only a savings of 105. It is that old marketing trick where you get people to look at 3,2 and 7. Rather than 3,4 and 8, which it actually is - less 10 bucks which adds up quite differently. So it is actually about a 13% discount.

Good news though all around as far as LightWave. Will be interesting to see what they have up their sleeve.

Ok, you lost me. How is it 690?

I'm a charter member, on version 11.6. If I go to my Lightwave3d.com account, I can upgrade to 2015 for $295 before 30th Sept. When 2016 comes out, I can again upgrade for $295. 295x2 = 590.

If I don't upgrade now and skip 2015, it's 795.

795 - 590 = 205

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 07:50 AM
Erikalst, yes I agree. I can't stand subscription software, that's no option for me.

I'm happy with LW and for an offer for 11.6 to 2015 for $295 I would instantly jump to the new pricing model. Which I must say is very fair once you're there. Same goes for $495 if you're still on v9.

I think there are many users who only wanted to leave out the 2015 upgrade.

So LW3D Group, can't you offer a $295 upgrade for 11.6.x to 2015 (just make the new pricing model available as of today)?

Marander are you a charter/post charter member? If so then you can upgrade from 11.6 to 2015 before September 30th for $295. Non charter/post charter members pay $395

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 07:53 AM
Ok, you lost me. How is it 690?

I'm a charter member, on version 11.6. If I go to my Lightwave3d.com account, I can upgrade to 2015 for $295 before 30th Sept. When 2016 comes out, I can again upgrade for $295. 295x2 = 590.

If I don't upgrade now and skip 2015, it's 795.

795 - 590 = 205

I think what he means is it's $690 if you are not a charter post charter memeber because it would cost $395 to upgrade now. But in your circumstance since you are a charter post charter member it's $590 because you can upgrade for $295

Thanks,
Jason

Waves of light
09-26-2015, 08:02 AM
I think what he means is it's $690 if you are not a charter post charter memeber because it would cost $395 to upgrade now. But in your circumstance since you are a charter post charter member it's $590 because you can upgrade for $295

Thanks,
Jason

Thank god for that, confirms I'm not going crazy.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:10 AM
Considering how LW is lagging behind the other major 3D apps - and continues to be split with ZERO INDICATION that integration is actually even starting to take place... changing your upgrade policy is not warranted. It was one of THE pluses that I have always touted about Lightwave and mentioned when defending it in other forums.

And offering future upgrades for those not current at nearly 67% of the regular price... sorry Rob, that's just not right. What's next? Subscription Only?

You intentionally refuse to communicate with your customers - though I'm sure several diehard fans will come here and refute that as they always do - and then communicate by hitting us with "Stay Current or PAY the price."

Fine Rob. You just keep pushing customers away. Ultimately it looks like all of my investments in Lightwave - my 11 licenses - as well as over $20k of plugins over the years, will be relegated to the junk software drawer. I find it incredibly sad that the one software app that I LONGED to buy back in the early 90's I now no longer even like. The company I worked for used cracked versions - I vowed that if ever I started my own business I would BUY a legal license. I did - and then bought more than the number of employees that used cracked versions where I used to work. It was my way of supporting Newtek.

During the last few years, the path that the LW3DG has chosen to pursue is not one that is customer-friendly. Previously I supported LW because I believed in the company. Now - and after talking with many current and former 'wavers - I no longer believe that.

I wish you well, but I think that all of the management decisions within the last few years have been bad and ill-advised. Your customers have asked for communication - yet you procrastinate and show everyone that nothing has changed. It's too bad that your one post in here has to be answered with one that is negative.

Good luck LW3DG.

Megalodon,
Considering the approach that you have taken in the past I'm not really very surprised at your current reaction of mostly a negative perception. However, the fact is that we have made significant progress in LightWave in so many areas and we will be sharing a lot more about this in the next few weeks.

As for integration, from the architectural standpoint we have already made such amazing progress that I am so excited to share I can personally hardly wait. Just as a tool for myself I am so looking forward to the upcoming versions of LightWave and to the opportunity of sharing with the LightWave community all of the tremendous hard work that the LightWave development team has done over the past several years to update LightWave at the architectural level.

Our goal has been to create a tool that we actually would want to use and to ensure that LightWave users have a toolset that is innovative, based on industry standards, and that LightWave will have the most modern architecture of any major 3D application driving it under the hood. So, frankly IMHO, move away at your own peril because as you did in the past you will certainly be back when you see what the next release will enable us to do moving forward. I have not been one to talk a lot until I am certain of something.

Some in the community have been frustrated by that but I think you will see that when I am certain of a particular thing and know that it will be amazing for our users I communicate quite a bit. I just am not a fan of a lot of empty talk ;)

lightscape
09-26-2015, 08:21 AM
Annual releases? Bad idea. Just look at modo 901. Its super buggy even die hard modo users are starting to see red.

As for the pricing. Its fair. I just don't like the way its presented as a leap of faith. There should be a window where you show what it is you're selling. Even tiny bits that would make people upgrade. Again look at how they enticed people to upgrade to modo 901. They showed some sneak peaks and had a two month deadline to upgrade.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:23 AM
Just to clear up a few questions here. If you are Charter or Post-Charter you will not lose your status when you take advantage of the current offer. Your upgrade now will be $295 to get you to LightWave 2015 if you have not already upgraded to 2015 yet. If you have upgraded to 2015 or if you take advantage of this current promo to get current with 2015 then you will receive $295 for all future upgrades of LightWave. That is a nice savings to you Charter and Post-Charter supporters right now and in the future and is a way for us to say thank you in a big way.

Right now all other customers can upgrade during this promo for $395 for a limited time however, those that do not take this opportunity to get current will not receive the same low upgrade prices in the future. This is a way to give a very clear benefit to our customers that support our development efforts. After all, if you support us it's only fair that we support you in return and giving this incredible discount for future upgrades to our most passionate supporters is one way that we are doing that.

I would also add that Charter and Post-Charter members will continue to receive exclusive special offers in the future specific to them. This is another way that we intend to give you added value for your support over the years.

The development team and myself deeply appreciate your support and I want all LightWave users to know that you have a team in place that really LOVES LightWave and we have been working as hard as humanly possible to amaze you and provide you with a creative tool that not only gives you a creative edge, allows you to just "get it done", but also that is fun to use. While others pay thousands more and have to deal with added complexity to achieve their creative goals LightWave users will have a tool that gets them from idea to reality at the speed of Light!

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 08:29 AM
Thank god for that, confirms I'm not going crazy.

Lol yeah. Completely my bad there. I was not even looking at the charter thing. Sorry for that. :)

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 08:30 AM
Annual releases? Bad idea. Just look at modo 901. Its super buggy even die hard modo users are starting to see red.

As for the pricing. Its fair. I just don't like the way its presented as a leap of faith. There should be a window where you show what it is you're selling. Even tiny bits that would make people upgrade. Again look at how they enticed people to upgrade to modo 901. They showed some sneak peaks and had a two month deadline to upgrade.


Where are people getting that from now on lightwave is going to be an Annual release? All I got from what's on the website and from what rob has said is you have to keep up to date with new versions to keep the $295 upgrade price.
So for example if you have lightwave 2016 and the next lightwave comes out 2 years later (may not be called lightwave 2017) then you have to buy the new lightwave 2017 at the $295 price or if you skip it will cost $795

Am I missing something here? Where did it state that lightwave was going to be coming out with a new version every 12 months?

Thanks,
Jason

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:44 AM
You are not missing anything. I have said nothing about yearly releases. We determine our releases based on our goals as they relate to our phased product development plan. Because we are an independent company we have the option to do yearly releases or any other release schedule that we feel is best for the product. Nothing is forced because we do not answer to shareholders in some large organization who know nothing of 3D and really could care less about it.

Our goal is to offer the best solutions to our users, to create a 3D toolset that we want to use, continue to innovate (a recent example is our ChronoSculpt "Sculpt Over Time" product that has won multiple industry awards and which certainly others have copied... CS also innovated with a very powerful new geometry engine that amazed many:D), and to have a successful LightWave business that supports our continued development in a robust way.

We are lucky to be owned by one very innovative and visionary man, Tim Jenison, who supports LightWave users and who also uses LightWave himself for his own creative projects.

Overall our goal is to give our users an extremely fair value with each release and I am certain that we will continue to do that with our future releases.

Waves of light
09-26-2015, 08:46 AM
Lol yeah. Completely my bad there. I was not even looking at the charter thing. Sorry for that. :)

Hehe... I was like, look I know I suck at English, but my math... no way! Didn't stop me from checking it twice on a calculator, just in case.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 08:47 AM
Am I missing something here? Where did it state that lightwave was going to be coming out with a new version every 12 months?

Thanks,
Jason

Not concrete but the arrows point in that direction. I hope its not so. There's no venture capitalists to please so why would lightwave need to do this.



Just to clear up a few questions here. If you are Charter or Post-Charter you will not lose your status when you take advantage of the current offer. Your upgrade now will be $295 to get you to LightWave 2015 if you have not already upgraded to 2015 yet.

This should be posted clearly on the announcement page. I think its not just me who thought that its 495 or 395 to upgrade to 2015. And then the 295 takes effect after that.

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 08:50 AM
You are not missing anything. I have said nothing about yearly releases. We determine our releases based on our goals as they relate to our phased product development plan. Because we are an independent company we have the option to do yearly releases or any other release schedule that we feel is best for the product. Nothing is forced because we do not answer to shareholders in some large organization who know nothing of 3D and really could care less about it.

Our goal is to offer the best solutions to our users, to create a 3D toolset that we want to use, continue to innovate (a recent example is our ChronoSculpt "Sculpt Over Time" product that has won multiple industry awards and which certainly others have copied... CS also innovated with a very powerful new geometry engine that amazed many:D), and to have a successful LightWave business that supports our continued development in a robust way.

We are lucky to be owned by one very innovative and visionary man, Tim Jenison, who supports LightWave users and who also uses LightWave himself for his own creative projects.

Overall our goal is to give our users an extremely fair value with each release and I am certain that we will continue to do that with our future releases.

Thanks Rob, That's what I thought, I think people are assuming yearly releases based on the name. Lightwave 2016, 2017 etc.

Thanks for clarifying this. I for one think the new pricing is great!! I mean really what other 3D software can you upgrade for $24/month I mean this is less than a monthly subscription that most software companies are using.

Can't wait to see what you have to share in regards to the new lightwave 2016 release. Really looking forward to it

Thanks,
Jason

djwaterman
09-26-2015, 09:04 AM
Right now all other customers can upgrade during this promo for $395 for a limited time however, those that do not take this opportunity to get current will not receive the same low upgrade prices in the future.

Oh, this is different to what I thought. So the future low upgrade price only applies to people who upgrade now to 2015, specifically in the next few days?
I thought that if 2016 came out and I decided to upgrade at the higher price, therefore achieving current version status, that my next upgrades would be at the lower price, but it only applies to if I upgrade now correct? And if I don't, any future upgrade would be at the higher price. Then that changes things a bit.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 09:08 AM
Its also confusing that if I try to upgrade a lw 10 license it doesn't direct me to upgrade to lw 2015. It directs me to lw 11 for $495.
So are all older version of lw eligible to be upgraded to lw 2015 for $295?

A lw 11 license upgraded to lw 2015 does show $295.
So is this offer only for lw 11 licenses? I think that's a shame there are a lot of old lw licenses that could be upgraded to current.

Nicolas Jordan
09-26-2015, 09:10 AM
I've enjoyed the new features in 2015 and look forward to seeing what's in the next Lightwave release! Taking into consideration the poor exchange rate my CDN dollar currently has with the US dollar and the fact that I haven't missed an upgrade since LW 7 this new pricing works out well for me.

Julez4001
09-26-2015, 09:17 AM
The industry have gotten really segmented so as long as people understand that there has to be some type of revenue for development.

I really hope volumetric smoke and har/fur has been answered in some type of way.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 09:19 AM
Its also confusing that if I try to upgrade a lw 10 license it doesn't direct me to upgrade to lw 2015. It directs me to lw 11 for $495.
So are all older version of lw eligible to be upgraded to lw 2015 for $295?

A lw 11 license upgraded to lw 2015 does show $295.
So is this offer only for lw 11 licenses? I think that's a shame there are a lot of old lw licenses that could be upgraded to current.


You can contact customer service as well to check your account if you see anything that might be misleading. Might be something that was messed up in your account.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 09:24 AM
Sounds great Rob, looking forward to see the new developments.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 09:25 AM
edit edit

djwaterman
09-26-2015, 09:26 AM
Yeah, the exchange rate makes this $395 offer quite expensive also for Australians, so I really have to think about it now. Also, did we get a mail out? I would have missed this news if I hadn't come here. And I would've just waited for 2016 to show up before considering whether to get it or not if Rob hadn't provided that little bit of new information a few posts back.

ernpchan
09-26-2015, 09:28 AM
Hi Ernest,
The plan is that this will be ongoing upgrade price for those of you that stay current starting with the next major release of LightWave and trust me, that is a release that you don't want to miss out on, when I say it will begin a new era for LightWave innovation I am serious about that. More details will be coming in the next few weeks. The decision to take advantage of our current offer is really up to each individual but I personally think that rewarding those that support our development so much through staying current is a great way to say thank you.

Thanks for the clarification Rob. I'm looking forward to what's on the, hopefully near, horizon.

My one criticism is that this special is very spur of the moment and not very long. This would make it challenging for some to pull the trigger on what is really a spur of the moment purchase. If it lasted a week or two it would at least let one more paycheck cycle help out.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 09:30 AM
You can contact customer service as well to check your account if you see anything that might be misleading. Might be something that was messed up in your account.

Ok. But is it for all previous lw licenses? There's no information about that here or the announcement page.
Maybe you or Rob can clarify in this thread if the $295(sept 30 deal) applies to any previous lw license. I have to email some studios that don't go to forums.

RobertGraham
09-26-2015, 09:31 AM
The problem is and no offense here Rob, hype with no show?

Your saying that 2016 or what ever lightwave 'next' is going to be called (lets just call it lightwave 13) will be a game changer but over the past few months we've seen nothing Lino drops hints that something great is coming but can't say anything concrete your in this thread oh but wait until the next version it'll be grand... If it was so grand why wasn't anything shown at Siggi this year? Why haven't we seen hints of what to expect that is why people are saying the communication is just.. bleh of late man.

I used to be rivited to newtek's stuff looking forwards to the updates, now I get a newsletter that offers me crossgrade and upgrade to a product I already have, no new information, no 'hey look at what is being done with our product'... no 'hey look at what to expect'.. etc, I get that when Core fell on its *** it hurt Newtek and Lightwave Group hard you'd hyped and in the end it rolled into something other than what was hyped.. I get that people are upset over 2015 being released as a full version rather than what many respectfully believe it should have been 11.6/.7/.8 but your meant to be selling us a product as well here. Give people a reason to want to upgrade, start giving some meat... because as others are pointing out for a lot of people there is scratching of the head as to why there is ANY benefit in upgrading from 11 - 2015 let alone doing so for a version that no information has been released on at all.

Add to that Lightwave's user base is one of the most varied you have your big names using it and then you have little fish like me who used it for business and now use it for personal use who are on pensions etc we have to justify to the boss (the wife) why we are going to need to fork out 350+ dollars (Yeah 1 AUD != 1 USD) for something and that means actually being able to basically do what you should be doing to us.. Showing and hyping to get us excited.

It's all great if your excited but if we can't see it, then hey it's all talk and hype and no show.

edit: and yeah shock this ones enough to finally get me to actually post on the newtek forums and not only over at lw wiki ;) lol.

ernpchan
09-26-2015, 09:31 AM
YAlso, did we get a mail out?

I learned of this via the newsletter.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 09:33 AM
clarify in this thread if the $295(sept 30 deal) applies to any previous lw license. I have to email some studios that don't go to forums.

only existing Charter/Post Charter members can get $295 pricing currently. So since there wasn't a "Charter LightWave 9" - then that license couldn't possibly get it.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 09:36 AM
only existing Charter/Post Charter members can get $295 pricing currently. So since there wasn't a "Charter LightWave 9" - then that license couldn't possibly get it.

Thanks for clarifying.
But there are those that bought lw 10 or 11, I assume who are not charter members. I guess they are not included with this $295 deal.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 09:48 AM
But there are those that bought lw 10 or 11, I assume who are not charter members. I guess they are not included with this $295 deal.

If they are Charter or Post Charter - then yes, they get the $295 deal. If they are not Charter or Post Charter then no, they get the $395 deal - but WILL get the $295 deal for 2016, as they will then be considered "current" - does that make sense?

erikals
09-26-2015, 09:52 AM
if i skip this $295 offer, but use the $395 Charter/Post Charter offer by the end of the year, upgrade prices will be >

LW2016 - $295
LW2017 - $295
LW2018 - $295

...or will they be...

LW2016 - $395
LW2017 - $395
LW2018 - $395

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 09:57 AM
they will be $295. Once you are only upgrading from current to new - it's $295.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 10:08 AM
If they are Charter or Post Charter - then yes, they get the $295 deal. If they are not Charter or Post Charter then no, they get the $395 deal - but WILL get the $295 deal for 2016, as they will then be considered "current" - does that make sense?

Getting warmer. So if they are not charter or post charter then that makes it any other lw licenses. These licenses can be upgraded to 395. So a lw 7 license can be upgraded to lw 2015 for 395 up to sept 30.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 10:11 AM
Getting warmer. So if they are not charter or post charter then that makes it any other lw licenses. These licenses can be upgraded to 395. So a lw 7 license can be upgraded to lw 2015 for 395 up to sept 30.

Yes.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 10:11 AM
Getting warmer. So if they are not charter or post charter then that makes it any other lw licenses. These licenses can be upgraded to 395. So a lw 7 license can be upgraded to lw 2015 for 395 up to sept 30.

Yes

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 10:12 AM
if i skip this $295 offer, but use the $395 Charter/Post Charter offer by the end of the year, upgrade prices will be >

LW2016 - $295
LW2017 - $295
LW2018 - $295

...or will they be...

LW2016 - $395
LW2017 - $395
LW2018 - $395

I think from how I understand it, It goes like this:

Charter/Post Charter members can pay $295 right now to upgrade to 2015 befeore Septemeber 30th
Non Charter Post Charter members can pay $395 right now to upgrade to 2015 (from what ever lightwave version they have (6,7,8,9 etc) Before Septemeber 30th

This has to be done before Septemeber 30th because once Lightwave 2016 comes out then those users that are still not on lightwave 2015 by Septemeber 30th the upgrade price will now be $795


LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)

Now once you are on lightwave 2015 any future upgrade to 2016 - 2017 etc will be $295 as long as you stay current

So right now they are giving the users the opportunity to upgrade to the current (LW 2015) before the new pricing takes effect so then lightwave 2016 will be $295 instead of $795 since you will now be current if you upgrade

Please let me know if I'm wrong regarding this but I think if in your situation if you skip the upgrade then you will be paying $795 to upgrade a non current version of lightwave to the newest version of lightwave unless this is different for charter/post charter memebers

Thanks,
Jason

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 10:26 AM
Right now all other customers can upgrade during this promo for $395 for a limited time however, those that do not take this opportunity to get current will not receive the same low upgrade prices in the future. This is a way to give a very clear benefit to our customers that support our development efforts. After all, if you support us it's only fair that we support you in return and giving this incredible discount for future upgrades to our most passionate supporters is one way that we are doing that.

So, as a LW user since V4 on the Amiga, and a small business owner, you're telling me that because I don't have the cashflow to upgrade to 2015 in the next four days, I will forever be penalized with higher upgrade charges.

What a wonderful way to support the small studio/freelancer. Way to go Rob.

Megalodon2.0
09-26-2015, 10:27 AM
Megalodon,
Considering the approach that you have taken in the past I'm not really very surprised at your current reaction of mostly a negative perception. However, the fact is that we have made significant progress in LightWave in so many areas and we will be sharing a lot more about this in the next few weeks.

Really? You said MANY months ago that you would be "working on communication." No one has seen this. REGULAR communication is what was asked - not sporadic posts. And certainly not posts stating that you "pay a little now or allot more later." THAT Rob... is not "communicating." Had you come in here and made a nice post talking about the architecture and a COUPLE of the new features and bug fixes for LW2016... you would definitely have NOT had the same reaction. You would have probably had more questions, but MOST of the comments (from myself included) would have been positive. But that was NOT what you posted. Did you really expect a great deal of positive feedback from people "like me?"


As for integration, from the architectural standpoint we have already made such amazing progress that I am so excited to share I can personally hardly wait. Just as a tool for myself I am so looking forward to the upcoming versions of LightWave and to the opportunity of sharing with the LightWave community all of the tremendous hard work that the LightWave development team has done over the past several years to update LightWave at the architectural level.

But you have NOT communicated this. You seem to think that many of us here should KNOW what is going on and this post that I am replying to here is a case in point. You say "from the architectural standpoint we have already made such amazing progress" and yet we SEE nothing AND when asked about this LW3DG NEVER replies with ANY helpful info OR simply doesn't reply. This is YOUR problem with the lack of communication that many here have been stating for YEARS.


Our goal has been to create a tool that we actually would want to use and to ensure that LightWave users have a toolset that is innovative, based on industry standards, and that LightWave will have the most modern architecture of any major 3D application driving it under the hood. So, frankly IMHO, move away at your own peril because as you did in the past you will certainly be back when you see what the next release will enable us to do moving forward. I have not been one to talk a lot until I am certain of something.

I NEVER left. I NEVER stopped using LW. I have loved using LW since '96. And up until the last few years Newtek was a company that I pulled for AND supported. Your COMPLETE lack of communication and unwillingness to answer SIMPLE questions on a regular basis has hurt you. How many posts in this forum have been asked about the underlying architecture and have been ENTIRELY ignored? Had you actually been communicating with your customers I would not be stating this fact. Contrary to what you may think, I WANT LW to succeed, but you are making it extremely difficult when you (ie the company) does not talk to its customers.


Some in the community have been frustrated by that but I think you will see that when I am certain of a particular thing and know that it will be amazing for our users I communicate quite a bit. I just am not a fan of a lot of empty talk ;)

I'm sorry Rob... but talking on Skype or posting on FB or personal one-on-ones is NOT communication to your userbase. These forums have been used for YEARS and it is not that difficult to post here. The FACT is... there is no regular communication between you and the userbase.

You're not a fan of "empty talk"? So you consider the questions asked here like - 1. Is integration still moving forward? or 2. Has any progress been made with the underlying architecture? - as "empty talk?" The fanboys here accept it (as did I many years ago) that there is "plenty" of communication. Many of us do not. In fact the survey conducted here showed that the VAST majority wanted more communication. You have not improved in this area AT ALL.

And really.... by Sept. 30th?

erikals
09-26-2015, 10:32 AM
So, as a LW user since V4 on the Amiga, and a small business owner, you're telling me that because I don't have the cashflow to upgrade to 2015 in the next four days, I will forever be penalized with higher upgrade charges.
nope, wrong.

use the $395 Charter/Post Charter offer by the end of the year, and your upgrade prices will be >

LW2015 - $395
LW2016 - $295
LW2017 - $295
LW2018 - $295

Chris S. (Fez)
09-26-2015, 10:36 AM
a very powerful new geometry engine that amazed many:D).

A possible hint here. Maybe LW Group finally hooked Hydra into Lightwave...

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 10:37 AM
I upgraded to 10 long after all the Core stuff, so I doubt I am either Charter/Post Charter.

erikals
09-26-2015, 10:37 AM
...by Sept. 30th?
NT might fix that, as many users won't receive this message until Monday morning

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 10:39 AM
I upgraded to 10 long after all the Core stuff, so I doubt I am either Charter/Post Charter.

Then you're upgrade is $395 as per this promotion.

hdace
09-26-2015, 10:45 AM
Considering how LW is lagging behind the other major 3D apps - and continues to be split with ZERO INDICATION that integration is actually even starting to take place... changing your upgrade policy is not warranted. It was one of THE pluses that I have always touted about Lightwave and mentioned when defending it in other forums.

And offering future upgrades for those not current at nearly 67% of the regular price... sorry Rob, that's just not right. What's next? Subscription Only?

You intentionally refuse to communicate with your customers - though I'm sure several diehard fans will come here and refute that as they always do - and then communicate by hitting us with "Stay Current or PAY the price."

Fine Rob. You just keep pushing customers away. Ultimately it looks like all of my investments in Lightwave - my 11 licenses - as well as over $20k of plugins over the years, will be relegated to the junk software drawer. I find it incredibly sad that the one software app that I LONGED to buy back in the early 90's I now no longer even like. The company I worked for used cracked versions - I vowed that if ever I started my own business I would BUY a legal license. I did - and then bought more than the number of employees that used cracked versions where I used to work. It was my way of supporting Newtek.

During the last few years, the path that the LW3DG has chosen to pursue is not one that is customer-friendly. Previously I supported LW because I believed in the company. Now - and after talking with many current and former 'wavers - I no longer believe that.

I wish you well, but I think that all of the management decisions within the last few years have been bad and ill-advised. Your customers have asked for communication - yet you procrastinate and show everyone that nothing has changed. It's too bad that your one post in here has to be answered with one that is negative.

Good luck LW3DG.

Jeez Louise. Do we really have to put up with this guff?

I don't agree that LW is lagging behind. It's superior in many ways. Not going to list them for your benefit, and industry perception of LW is simply flawed. Too bad you buy into others' opinions so easily.

Powers' communication is finely balanced between our needs and commercial needs. I find users' criticisms narcissistic.

Personally I'm prepared to give Powers the benefit of the doubt that new features are going to attract new users, as LW 10 clearly did, and the new pricing structure is obviously suited to that "educated hope".

Your self-righteous indignation stems from your belief that somehow Newtek owes you something in return for all your altruistic actions of the past. They don't owe anything to anyone but themselves. And what they owe themselves is supper at night and a roof over their heads. In other words, if they're going to stay in business they have to deliver the goods. We have no real reason to think they won't deliver the goods. It's in their own self-interest.

From my own point of view I should be annoyed because I payed a lot more for the 2015 upgrade (on two licenses) when if first came out, but since things are looking positive (notwithstanding your baffling reaction) I'm prepared to be patient and wait for 2016 and see how it looks. If it's terrific, I'll forget that I paid more than others for 2015.

I'm a little baffled too that the new naming convention does not necessarily mean that we get annual upgrades. Why have one without the other? I think he's splitting hairs when Powers says this isn't the case. I believe they'll release upgrades roughly annually anyway.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 10:52 AM
But more communication is always better. Not necessarily a specific list of features.
A hint or two.
I also like the recent effort by Lino posting youtube videos. They may be basic but it lets people know that newtek is very much interested to develop lightwave.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 10:55 AM
I upgraded to 10 long after all the Core stuff, so I doubt I am either Charter/Post Charter.

I think you can tell if your charter or post by checking your registration page. Either way , if you stay current, you would only have to pay the higher upgrade fee once(assuming you dont buy during the promotion), and then after that you would only pay 295 per upgrade. Which would save you money vs todays uprade pricing.

As far as annual releases, I dont see it happening. And as Rob said, he never said it, nor did anyone else at lw3dg, people just assumedit because they named the last release 2015.

Megalodon2.0
09-26-2015, 10:57 AM
Jeez Louise. Do we really have to put up with this guff?

Actually no. You don't HAVE to read anything by Megalodon2.0.


I don't agree that LW is lagging behind. It's superior in many ways. Not going to list them for your benefit, and industry perception of LW is simply flawed. Too bad you buy into others' opinions so easily.

Yeah... I just look at others' opinions and respond. It's not like I USE the software.... :screwy:


Powers' communication is finely balanced between our needs and commercial needs. I find users' criticisms narcissistic.

Bullcrap.



Your self-righteous indignation stems from your belief that somehow Newtek owes you something in return for all your altruistic actions of the past. They don't owe anything to anyone but themselves. And what they owe themselves is supper at night and a roof over their heads. In other words, if they're going to stay in business they have to deliver the goods. We have no real reason to think they won't deliver the goods. It's in their own self-interest.

Looks like you haven't been paying attention. Too bad.


From my own point of view I should be annoyed because I payed a lot more for the 2015 upgrade (on two licenses) when if first came out, but since things are looking positive (notwithstanding your baffling reaction) I'm prepared to be patient and wait for 2016 and see how it looks. If it's terrific, I'll forget that I paid more than others for 2015.

Hey... YOU are the one with the "fanboy" attitude. I USED to be like you. Then I realized that it comes down to the software.

But again... you don't like my posts? Don't read them. KMA

magiclight
09-26-2015, 11:03 AM
It's all great if your excited but if we can't see it, then hey it's all talk and hype and no show.

But you can see it once they release it, it's not like you have to pay up now before you know if you want it...

It's pretty understandable from a commercial point of view, people buy one version and keep it for long time, when keeping a low next version price they "force" people to keep buying a new version every year or so, and that gives a steady flow of money,
and there is no other software you can buy with the same features anyway for that kind of money, a C4D with same features will cost US$3500 or so, Autodesk... well no idea to talk money there and soon you cannot even buy it anymore, you have to rent it.

zogthedoomed
09-26-2015, 11:10 AM
Hmm .. 4 days to be convinced.

I jumped from 3DS4 to LW 4 back in the day as Lightwave seemed so much better value for money (it had lensflares!!). I was probably spoiled in working for a number of games/VFX studios that were Lightwave centric but they eventually moved to Maya/Max/Modo as Lightwave proved less and less useful. I've managed to cling onto it but with Robs preference for film I suppose its natural that Newtek concentrates on that market. Do they actually have any game artists on staff?

Every upgrade scares me because I find I'm reliant on 3rd party or free user made modelling plugins that are no longer updated. It's crazy that I often have to resort to earlier versions of LW to get things done. I didn't upgrade to 2015 from 11 because as a game modeller there was no incentive and I became more disheartened with the obvious strength of the competition.

Newtek has somewhat of a checkered past, Rob, so I can empathise with some of the negativity. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me - as your president almost said.

Saying that, I may be foolish and go for this upgrade .. simply because LW is an old friend and I really want to be part of it doing well. But if 2016 doesn't prove a worthwhile investment for me - if there's nothing in there that justifies the upgrade price to me as a game artist - then .. oh I don't know. It's easy to get all melodramatic and scream that I'm going to ditch LW and move to Max or more insulting, Modo .. but I don't know. I'll have a hard job justifying spending money on a tool you appear to have no interest in improving (modeller)?. And you start off by wanting me to pay Ģ313 for something I don't want?

Hmm .. 4 days Rob. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you as a business, but for me .. I need more convincing.

erikals
09-26-2015, 11:18 AM
i'm a Charter/Post Charter member, and i want to upgrade to LW2015 by Sept. 30
your upgrade price is then > LW2015 $295  LW2016 $295  LW2017 $295  LW2018-$295


i'm a Charter/Post Charter member, and i want skip the upgrade by Sept. 30, but upgrade by the end of the year
your upgrade price is then > LW2015 $395  LW2016 $295  LW2017 $295  LW2018 $295


i'm not a Charter/Post Charter member, i own a previous version (7,8,9,10,11) of LightWave
upgrade by Sept. 30, and get LW2015 for $395. LW2016 upgrade will then be $295
alternatively, upgrade to LW2015 by the end of the year for $395. LW2016 upgrade will then be $295


i want to skip the LW2015 upgrade
LW2016 will then be $795


...correct ?

Waves of light
09-26-2015, 11:21 AM
Upgraded my charter from 11.6 to 2015. Thanks LW3DG.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 11:26 AM
They really have to extend this offer.
A lot of people will miss this who don't go to the forums or check the lightwave website.

Not to mention if you contact support for some questions
--- Support times are Mon-Fri 9am-6pm Central time ---

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 11:30 AM
Not to mention if you contact support for some questions
--- Support times are Mon-Fri 9am-6pm Central time ---

I'm here and monitoring. I've been helping folks all day.

djwaterman
09-26-2015, 11:30 AM
I'd really like some clarification, without reference to charter, post charter, cos a lot of us don't belong to that club. If a new user next year decides to buy a full copy of 2016, do they get the future low upgrade pricing if they keep current, or does this only apply to us who take advantage of this 4 day offer now? Wouldn't that mean that the new pricing structure for everyone else who do not take advantage of the deal right now will actually be something other than $295, even if they are current at that time?

erikals
09-26-2015, 11:43 AM
from what i understand

non-charter/post charter members will pay $395 for LW2015 if they take this (Sept 30) offer,
and $295 for LW2016 (no guaranteed locked price for LW2017, LW2018)

charter/post charter members will pay will pay $295 for LW2015 if they take this (Sept 30) offer,
and $295 for LW2016 (guaranteed locked price at $295 for LW2017, LW2018)

skipping a yearly upgrade will make the new price $795


? maybe...

Marander
09-26-2015, 11:50 AM
Since there is no information about what LW 2016 will bring I can for example assume it requires online activation. And I don't support software that requires that.

Or 2016 has still no PBR / sbar support. Or non-destructive modeling. Or Unification. Or Hypervoxel improvements. Or a modern UI.

Of course LW3D Group can't unveil some secret new technology nobody else offers today . But all others are standards in most other 3d applications. And if it 2016 doesn't offer that then (besides of the licensing and price) they still lack behind others. And I'm not going to pay $700-800 for that.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 11:53 AM
(no guaranteed locked price for LW2017, LW2018)


so long as a user maintains current with LightWave version, meaning they are using the current shipping version, once 2016 ships - their upgrade will be $295 with the current pricing model shown.

Just like Charter/Post Charter MUST stay current to maintain what you're calling "guaranteed locked price."

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 12:00 PM
from what i understand

non-charter/post charter members will pay $395 for LW2015 if they take this (Sept 30) offer,
and $295 for LW2016 (no guaranteed locked price for LW2017, LW2018)

charter/post charter members will pay will pay $295 for LW2015 if they take this (Sept 30) offer,
and $295 for LW2016 (guaranteed locked price at $295 for LW2017, LW2018)

skipping a yearly upgrade will make the new price $795


? maybe...

I don't think so. The wording is pretty clear. The only advantage the charter members get is the 100 off this upgrade.
As of 2016 that the new pricing goes into effect for everyone, from there into the future 2017 etc.

Like this:



As a special thank you to our loyal customers, LightWave users who own the current version
will benefit from preferential upgrade pricing for future releases.

With our next release the new pricing program for LightWave will be:

LightWave Special Upgrade Price from a Current Version - $295 (USD)
LightWave Regular Upgrade Price from a Non-Current Version - $795 (USD)
LightWave Full License Price - $1195

erikals
09-26-2015, 12:03 PM
...As of 2016 that the new pricing goes into effect for everyone, from there into the future 2017 etc.
yes, but charter/post charter members will have a 'guaranteed locked price' at $295 for LW2017/LW2018 if annual updates are always bought
for non-charter/post charter members however, the cost of LW2017 might rise slightly...

yes/no ?


we need a chart... i know it's sheep, i'm just confused... http://erikalstad.com/emoti/sheep.gif

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 12:16 PM
Then you're upgrade is $395 as per this promotion.

Yup, fair enough.

But could you clarify;

Right now all other customers can upgrade during this promo for $395 for a limited time however, those that do not take this opportunity to get current will not receive the same low upgrade prices in the future.

So I skip 2015, (likely, as this wasn't budgeted for and the spare cash currently isn't in the business account), and upgrade to 2016, paying $795 to do so. Do I then get all future upgrades at $295, or as Rob seems to state above, do I pay more for each one?

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 12:16 PM
yes, but charter/post charter members will have a 'guaranteed locked price' at $295 for LW2017/LW2018 if annual updates are always bought
for non-charter/post charter members however, the cost of LW2017 might rise slightly.

What do you base this assumption on ?

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 12:17 PM
Where was that stated?

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification Rob. I'm looking forward to what's on the, hopefully near, horizon.

My one criticism is that this special is very spur of the moment and not very long. This would make it challenging for some to pull the trigger on what is really a spur of the moment purchase. If it lasted a week or two it would at least let one more paycheck cycle help out.

Thanks for letting us know your thoughts on the promo length.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 12:18 PM
So I skip 2015, (likely, as this wasn't budgeted for and the spare cash currently isn't in the business account), and upgrade to 2016, paying $795 to do so. Do I then get all future upgrades at $295, or as Rob seems to state above, do I pay more for each one?

Stay current, and it's $295. EVEN IF you had slipped at one point. So say, you had to, for one reason or another, pay $795 to get current ... you are now current - so the next upgrade would be offered to you at $295.

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 12:21 PM
Thanks Deuce

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:22 PM
Yup, fair enough.

But could you clarify;


So I skip 2015, (likely, as this wasn't budgeted for and the spare cash currently isn't in the business account), and upgrade to 2016, paying $795 to do so. Do I then get all future upgrades at $295, or as Rob seems to state above, do I pay more for each one?

When you get current then from that point forward you would get upgrades for $295 and that would continue as long as you remain current.

pinkmouse
09-26-2015, 12:22 PM
And Rob! :D

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:23 PM
I don't think so. The wording is pretty clear. The only advantage the charter members get is the 100 off this upgrade.
As of 2016 that the new pricing goes into effect for everyone, from there into the future 2017 etc.

Like this:

Not exactly, as I stated before we will have special promos moving forward that only are for Charter and Post-Charter members.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:24 PM
Upgraded my charter from 11.6 to 2015. Thanks LW3DG.
Great to hear! We appreciate your support!

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:25 PM
But more communication is always better. Not necessarily a specific list of features.
A hint or two.
I also like the recent effort by Lino posting youtube videos. They may be basic but it lets people know that newtek is very much interested to develop lightwave.

As I mentioned more info will be coming very soon. So stay tuned over the next few weeks because we have some exciting things coming!

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 12:26 PM
yes, but charter/post charter members will have a 'guaranteed locked price' at $295 for LW2017/LW2018 if annual updates are always bought
for non-charter/post charter members however, the cost of LW2017 might rise slightly...

yes/no ?


we need a chart... i know it's sheep, i'm just confused... http://erikalstad.com/emoti/sheep.gif

no

from what I understand once you are current the price will be $295 for everyone (post or not post charter) for all future releases as long as you stay current

Thanks,
Jason

erikals
09-26-2015, 12:28 PM
i was just thinking the $295 had to change sooner or later, sorry to confuse.

anyway, looking forward to LW2016

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 12:29 PM
yes, but charter/post charter members will have a 'guaranteed locked price' at $295 for LW2017/LW2018 if annual updates are always bought
for non-charter/post charter members however, the cost of LW2017 might rise slightly...

yes/no ?


we need a chart... i know it's sheep, i'm just confused... http://erikalstad.com/emoti/sheep.gif

no

from what I understand once you are current the price will be $295 for everyone (post or not post charter) for all future releases as long as you stay current and like rob stated
charter/post charter members will still get special promotions.

Thanks,
Jason

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 12:29 PM
It seems clear enough. Once you are using the current version (however you get there) future upgrades will be $295. Doesn't matter if your charter, post charter, non charter or allergic to cats, current users will get the $295 price. If you're on a previous version, you have to upgrade to 2015 otherwise, the next upgrade will cost you $795. It's just up to you if you will upgrade to 2015 or not and whether you want to save some money with this promo or not or take your chance and wait to see if 2016 or whatever it will be called is worth it.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:32 PM
The problem is and no offense here Rob, hype with no show?

Your saying that 2016 or what ever lightwave 'next' is going to be called (lets just call it lightwave 13) will be a game changer but over the past few months we've seen nothing Lino drops hints that something great is coming but can't say anything concrete your in this thread oh but wait until the next version it'll be grand... If it was so grand why wasn't anything shown at Siggi this year? Why haven't we seen hints of what to expect that is why people are saying the communication is just.. bleh of late man.

I used to be rivited to newtek's stuff looking forwards to the updates, now I get a newsletter that offers me crossgrade and upgrade to a product I already have, no new information, no 'hey look at what is being done with our product'... no 'hey look at what to expect'.. etc, I get that when Core fell on its *** it hurt Newtek and Lightwave Group hard you'd hyped and in the end it rolled into something other than what was hyped.. I get that people are upset over 2015 being released as a full version rather than what many respectfully believe it should have been 11.6/.7/.8 but your meant to be selling us a product as well here. Give people a reason to want to upgrade, start giving some meat... because as others are pointing out for a lot of people there is scratching of the head as to why there is ANY benefit in upgrading from 11 - 2015 let alone doing so for a version that no information has been released on at all.

Add to that Lightwave's user base is one of the most varied you have your big names using it and then you have little fish like me who used it for business and now use it for personal use who are on pensions etc we have to justify to the boss (the wife) why we are going to need to fork out 350+ dollars (Yeah 1 AUD != 1 USD) for something and that means actually being able to basically do what you should be doing to us.. Showing and hyping to get us excited.

It's all great if your excited but if we can't see it, then hey it's all talk and hype and no show.

edit: and yeah shock this ones enough to finally get me to actually post on the newtek forums and not only over at lw wiki ;) lol.

As I said we will be sharing much more detail over the next few weeks and I am serious about that. You will understand what we have been working on over the last several years and why it is so important for LightWave moving forward.

jeric_synergy
09-26-2015, 12:34 PM
That would be defeating the point. The new pricing model is there to encourage users to keep current with their software, why would they allow users to bypass the very thing they are trying to do?
Exactly. Thank you.

Hmm .. 4 days Rob. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you as a business, but for me .. I need more convincing.
Errr... you realize you've had months to read the 2015 page and figure out if the new tools make sense for you, right?

I was definitely upgrading at $395-- at $295 I almost feel guilty.

AND now users, like LW3dG itself, will know what to BUDGET for upgrades for years to come.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:35 PM
1. Is integration still moving forward? or 2. Has any progress been made with the underlying architecture?

1. Yes most definitely 2. Yes in a big way

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 12:49 PM
Based on the information I figured both 1 and 2 where in the works. This is real good news. And you know, this is something that a lot of people have been waiting to hear. For the longest time I have been saying this was a long range goal. And my way of filling in the blanks is that it will take a few releases for this to come to full fruition. So I am thinking 2017 and beyond to see this really take hold across all features.

As for me, as much as I'd like to support the effort I have been watching my money lately and experience has also made me very very careful about jumping into software. So I would not likely take any action until seeing and working with a trial version.

But in general this is good news and good to see it finally coming around.

Congrats on that!

Surrealist.
09-26-2015, 12:55 PM
Not exactly, as I stated before we will have special promos moving forward that only are for Charter and Post-Charter members.

OK fair enough but that is outside of the current pricing which was in question. None of those deals are/were on the table. I don't mean to be presumptuous into any future deals. And also yeah, a good thing to keep deals for them going. :) So thanks for the clarification.

hdace
09-26-2015, 12:58 PM
1. Yes most definitely 2. Yes in a big way

I have consistently stated on this forum that I do not want integration. However, because versions 10, 11, & 2015 were very thoughtful improvements over their previous versions, I'm willing to try it when it comes. My hope is that it won't be like Core when old timers like me were completely gobsmacked by the awful UI, and Powers & Co are going to make it as painless as possible. I really really like the interface the way it is. But I do always at least try to understand these newfangled ideas and see if there are genuine improvements in efficiency whilst working.

Previously Megalodon2.0 called me a fanboy. I would like to correct that insult. I'm a fanoldman. Thank you.

jeric_synergy
09-26-2015, 12:58 PM
Upgraded.

Be advised the confirmation page TEXT says "Lightwave 2015 Upgrade 2 Windows 64 bit", although the file downloaded is 2015.3.


Seriously, is there nothing I can't find an error in???

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 12:59 PM
OK fair enough but that is outside of the current pricing which was in question. None of those deals are/were on the table. I don't mean to be presumptuous into any future deals. And also yeah, a good thing to keep deals for them going. :) So thanks for the clarification.

Sure thing.

motivalex
09-26-2015, 01:04 PM
When you get current then from that point forward you would get upgrades for $295 and that would continue as long as you remain current.

Thanks for the clarification. I won't be upgrading to LW2015, but if LW2016 delivers and I decide to get it, then it's good to know that subsequent upgrades are $295 as long as I remain current.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 01:12 PM
Be advised the confirmation page TEXT says "Lightwave 2015 Upgrade 2 Windows 64 bit", although the file downloaded is 2015.3.


Thanks - we're fixing that even as I type.

erikals
09-26-2015, 01:19 PM
I have consistently stated on this forum that I do not want integration.
remember, integration is not unification, necessarily...

jeric_synergy
09-26-2015, 01:19 PM
Thanks - we're fixing that even as I type.
No worries... I just wish I could turn my bug-finding circuitry off.....

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 01:28 PM
No worries... I just wish I could turn my bug-finding circuitry off.....

haha me too

Megalodon2.0
09-26-2015, 01:31 PM
1. Yes most definitely 2. Yes in a big way

See how easy that was? A post EVERY NOW AND THEN in a specified forum - as MANY of us have been asking for YEARS now - would go a long way. And then you could have avoided my negative posts. How simple it would be if there were only communication for the ENTIRE userbase.

Thank you for the clarification and certainty.

erikals
09-26-2015, 01:42 PM
he couldn't, as he didn't know if 'Hydra' would work fine inside LightWave or make it go bananas...

Chris S. (Fez)
09-26-2015, 01:47 PM
See how easy that was? A post EVERY NOW AND THEN in a specified forum - as MANY of us have been asking for YEARS now - would go a long way.

Given the inherent uncertainty of bleeding edge development and the inherited legacy of the Core debacle, I suspect the good Lightwave doctors could not confidently reassure us until they knew for sure the "patient" was not D.O.A...

- - - Updated - - -



he couldn't, as he didn't know if 'Hydra' would work fine inside LightWave or make it go bananas...

Yeah.

Greenlaw
09-26-2015, 01:48 PM
...the next major release of LightWave...is a release that you don't want to miss out on, when I say it will begin a new era for LightWave innovation I am serious about that. More details will be coming in the next few weeks.

Can't tell from reading this thread but is anybody else besides me excited about this statement? Bring it on, I says. :D

But in the meantime, no speculation please. Those threads always end up ugly (not nice and civil like this one.) Let's just quietly wait and see.

G.

hdace
09-26-2015, 01:53 PM
Ah Greenlaw... you fanboy!

tburbage
09-26-2015, 01:53 PM
Hi Ernest,
The plan is that this will be ongoing upgrade price for those of you that stay current starting with the next major release of LightWave and trust me, that is a release that you don't want to miss out on, when I say it will begin a new era for LightWave innovation I am serious about that. More details will be coming in the next few weeks. The decision to take advantage of our current offer is really up to each individual but I personally think that rewarding those that support our development so much through staying current is a great way to say thank you.

Rob, here are my thoughts. I purchased LW for the first time at [6], and upgraded to each version through 11. I hated the v10/Core experience, and it made me so wary I was a late updater to 11, and as primarily a game modeler/texture artist, did not find the updates in 2015 to be compelling. What I've been looking for, and I think many other present and recent past users have been looking for, is clear, unambiguous information regarding the development direction of the product at a fundamental level. IMO, both Layout and Modeler are really showing their age both in terms of UI as well as underlying architecture, and people would like to see that in both applications, a fundamental modernization program is under way. For me and quite a few others, for Modeler and modeling/texturing foundation.

I know I don't see evidence in 11.6.3 of the kinds of architectural and product design evolution some of us would like to see, and I haven't heard anything about LW 2015 that would lead me to believe things are significantly different there.

Now, you've used the expression "trust me", but it isn't a matter of trust. People make informed investment decisions based on real, concrete information: what they see, and what they've been told will soon come to pass. Couldn't you be more forthcoming before asking people to make their investment decisions? I don't mean marketing hyperbole -- I mean specific information which users can assess to decide whether the priorities you've set for development match up with their own usage of the software? I know it has not been you're practice to open up to the users, but I can tell you the Maya team has been presenting some really informative hour long sessions where the team leader for product areas, e.g. modeling, animation, etc. speaks at length and very specifically and frankly about where the software is now, and where they intend to focus their efforts based on their own assessment and user feedback. I have found these discussions to be a total breath of fresh air, and they make me feel both more connected into the product as well as give me confidence that they are taking the product in a direction I have no problem supporting via an annual investment. Note there is nothing said in these videos which is speculative, no specific promises are being made. They haven't given away any "secrets". Kind of a surprise coming from big, bad AD. But a good one.

I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at the positive reaction of the customer base. You might even see some people come back who had appeared to have been gone forever. The marketplace, especially in terms of licensing practices is really changing, and some may not like where the other vendors are pushing them. There is an opportunity here. But information first, THEN ask the users for their on-going support.

<edit>
You did say -- more details coming in the coming weeks. Looking forward to it!

rcallicotte
09-26-2015, 02:25 PM
This is good news! I have planned to upgrade by October, but I'll do this one by September 30th instead. Woohoo! I'm so glad I saw this thread.

rcallicotte
09-26-2015, 02:44 PM
I'd rather see this, really - action with feebler revelation. I've seen the opposite and it's OLD.

I can't speak to your situation, but I'm thrilled to see this, especially now. Words of promise get old in light of inaction (from other vendors).



Really? You said MANY months ago that you would be "working on communication." No one has seen this. REGULAR communication is what was asked - not sporadic posts.

Nicolas Jordan
09-26-2015, 03:03 PM
As I said we will be sharing much more detail over the next few weeks and I am serious about that. You will understand what we have been working on over the last several years and why it is so important for LightWave moving forward. It's great to hear there have been developments efforts over the past few years that we have yet to see!

I'm thinking we will get a nice makeover and new look to the UI with this new version of Lightwave as well.

jeric_synergy
09-26-2015, 03:20 PM
Plus, cookies.

motivalex
09-26-2015, 03:49 PM
Anyway. Overall it looks positive. The negative is only giving people a fews days to decide. You are going to reveal some information in the next few weeks. Why not let the deal run until people have had a chance to get some info to help make a decision?

R Haseltine
09-26-2015, 03:50 PM
I'm confused - the September LW Newsletter had an offer to upgrade for $395 good until the 12th October, now we have this offer to upgrade for $395 good until the 30th September. Does that mean that if I hold off until I have some dollars in my PayPal account early next month I will be able to get the $395 upgrade to LW 2015 (over which I'm still dithering), but not the $295 upgrade from that to the next version of LW, or has the offer running to the twelfth simply been cancelled? Or will the $395/$295 offer be extended to 12/10 (or 10/12, according to taste)?

souzou
09-26-2015, 03:51 PM
As I mentioned more info will be coming very soon. So stay tuned over the next few weeks because we have some exciting things coming!

Great to see you posting Rob, always love the positivity. :thumbsup:

So I'm still wearing my "In Rob We Trust" t-shirt - we've upgraded our two charter seats, hoping for good things from 2016.

BokadCastle
09-26-2015, 03:58 PM
Roboman seems to have the same idea.

Read Rob's post #5:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?148219-New-pricing-model&p=1445902&viewfull=1#post1445902

Why would you want to keep the $395 price?

I didn't express it well but my concern is what comes after being lured to the $295 upgrade. Would my upgrades be then $795 or similar from then on.
Anyway thanks for replying.

Besides I've already upgraded to 2015.3 and am current and intend to remain current.
So as a charter member, I think my best option is to stay on my $395 guaranteed for the next 4 upgrades.

I'd be interested to hear how other charter members are interrupting this offer.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 03:59 PM
I'm confused - the September LW Newsletter had an offer to upgrade for $395 good until the 12th October, now we have this offer to upgrade for $395 good until the 30th September. Does that mean that if I hold off until I have some dollars in my PayPal account early next month I will be able to get the $395 upgrade to LW 2015 (over which I'm still dithering), but not the $295 upgrade from that to the next version of LW, or has the offer running to the twelfth simply been cancelled? Or will the $395/$295 offer be extended to 12/10 (or 10/12, according to taste)?

Okay - going to try to help here. I checked your account- and you don't have any Charter/Post charter licenses. So only the $395 pricing applies. If you do upgrade, this will get you your 2015 license. This will then get you current, so that when the next version of LightWave that we have all been referring to as 2016, you will then have the $295 upgrade cost.

If you wait, and do not upgrade to 2015 during either the current promotion, or when the promotion is over, and 2016 releases - you will not be current, and your upgrade then from LightWave 9 to 2016 will be $795.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 04:00 PM
Besides I've already upgraded to 2015.3 and am current and intend to remain current.
So as a charter member, I think my best option is to stay on my $395 guaranteed for the next 4 upgrades.

Since you are current - that means that your upgrade price to 2016 when it releases will be $295.

BokadCastle
09-26-2015, 04:16 PM
... So for those of us who are tickety boo charter members and on 2015 already there seems to be nothing to do but wait till release then it's $295 from there on? Do I have that right?

I don't know either but I'm reading the entire thread again, to see if I've missed something.
I haven't seen anything so far that absolutely ties down this $295x4 pricing.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 04:17 PM
I didn't express it well but my concern is what comes after being lured to the $295 upgrade. Would my upgrades be then $795 or similar from then on.
Anyway thanks for replying.

Besides I've already upgraded to 2015.3 and am current and intend to remain current.
So as a charter member, I think my best option is to stay on my $395 guaranteed for the next 4 upgrades.

I'd be interested to hear how other charter members are interrupting this offer.

I don't think you've understood this properly mate.

There will be a new pricing scheme for everyone as of the next release. Upgrades will be $295 for the forseeable future for everyone who has the most recent version of LW.

That means when LW3DG release the next version of LW, you (and I mean you) will then pay $295 for it. You won't have the option of buying it for $395 because that pricing structure will have been scrapped by then. And as long as you stay up to date, you'll keep on paying $295 per upgrade just like everyone else.

According to Rob the benefits of being a HardCORE member will manifest through deals created specifically for us to differentiate us from everyone else.

BokadCastle
09-26-2015, 04:21 PM
Since you are current - that means that your upgrade price to 2016 when it releases will be $295.

Ah!...Customer Service.
That sounds definite to me. I'm now clearer as to the future, thanks.

Deuce - as in Deuce Bennett, who I've see on many tutorials?

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 04:22 PM
Current owners of ANY LightWave Version - promotion upgrade to 2015 - $395
Current Charter/Post charter - promotion upgrade to 2015 - $295

this gets everyone up to 2015. From this point forward, upgrades are $295. Fall behind, and it's $795

Current pricing of LightWave 2015 new license is $995. Current promotion of a cross-grade makes that $695

Once this promotion has gone away. Upgrades go back to standard $495 for regular and Post Charter users, and $395 for Charter. Full license is $995, no cross-grade promotion.

Once 2016 is available - Full License is $1195. Stay current - and your upgrade is $295. Fall behind and it's $795.

Charter/Post Charter benefit is not going away - the benefit will manifest through special deals just for those members past 2016.

DigitalDeuce
09-26-2015, 04:22 PM
Deuce - as in Deuce Bennett, who I've see on many tutorials?

Yes sir !

BokadCastle
09-26-2015, 04:23 PM
I don't think you've understood this properly mate.

There will be a new pricing scheme for everyone as of the next release. Upgrades will be $295 for the forseeable future for everyone who has the most recent version of LW.

That means when LW3DG release the next version of LW, you (and I mean you) will then pay $295 for it. You won't have the option of buying it for $395 because that pricing structure will have been scrapped by then. And as long as you stay up to date, you'll keep on paying $295 per upgrade just like everyone else.

According to Rob the benefits of being a HardCORE member will manifest through deals created specifically for us to differentiate us from everyone else.

OK, thanks for that further clarification.
Sounding better all the time.

JamesCurtis
09-26-2015, 04:53 PM
I have 2 licenses of LW 2015. One of them I had upgraded about 4 months back. At least I'll benefit from the new lower upgrade pricing from now on!! I don't mind saving $100 bucks on each license.

jwiede
09-26-2015, 04:53 PM
Where did you folks get the pricing info from? All I got was this: (snip)

No mention of future pricing at all!

See the link in my original post, it's at the www.lightwave3d.com site where a link in the $295 Charter/Post-Charter deal sends you for more info.

Rayek
09-26-2015, 05:00 PM
This is a tough one for me. I have worked with Lightwave since the Amiga versions, left LW for a while for C4d, then returned when version 7 was released, and stopped upgrading after version 9.6. Nowadays, I predominantly work in Blender, and I even sponsor the Blender Foundation every month. I still use LW 9.6 to render things once in a fortnight.

I have been burned twice before by "great new features on the way, pay now, or miss out and pay much more!" kinda deals, and I swore NEVER to fall for that one again. "Trust me! I can't tell you any specifics, but it's gonna be great!" I very much dislike this approach. I realize this sales technique is used by other companies (Maxon, anyone?), and it just does not jive with me. At least show me one or two excellent new features.

The four day deadline feels like an extra shove in the back, and I recognize this deal for what it is: an application of human psychology in persuasion. And my first inclination is avoidance.

Erikals mentioned earlier in this thread that upgrading any 3d software is going to be painful (I assume he meant in terms of financial investment) - of course, this is untrue in the case of Blender.

I am now at a point where I feel I am at a cross roads: to keep Lightwave in my "3d life", or not. To be honest, I have switched over to Blender almost completely in these last ~five years, and I have been checking out new versions of Lightwave (and Modo).

Thing is, I really LOVE Blender's completely open road map. I know what to expect. Same with 3D Coat: the company/developer is also very open as to new features. Photoline: same thing - the beta is available for testing, and the devs are very open in their communication.

If anything, in these last couple of years I have come to really appreciate this type of openness from companies. Even AutoDesk's communication is starting to improve in this regard. And the communities, on a whole, respond in a very positive manner.

Then there is Newtek and Maxon: not very open at all, nor very communicative. Well, Maxon is actually much worse than Newtek. I suppose Newtek was taken aback by the Core negativity, and decided to run deep and silent for the most part.

A secondary concern is the lack of modeler improvement, and the lack of modeler<->layout integration. That never agreed with me, although I learned to live with it. It is now 2015 going on 2016, and after 25 years of development, Lightwave still is a fragmented application.

This may not be a concern to some here, but I LIKE an integrated 3d application. Sure, I will switch to 3dCoat for sculpting or texturing, but I want my primary 3d app to be a "whole". I still regard Lightwave's fragmentation into two apps to be its Achilles's heel. Although some here regard it as a "strength". I feel an isolation mode in a 3d app work much better. Anyway, water under the bridge. Just a personal opinion, albeit a strongly felt one.

The reality is, we will not see the unification happen in the upcoming version, and perhaps only two more versions down the road (30 year anniversary, perhaps? :hey:.

Thirdly, Blender keeps growing stronger, and stronger. I do character animation, and the latest version includes OpenSubDiv - a quick test yesterday left me stunned: a 2.5 million subd'd tris character's animation FPS went up from 1.5fps to 20fps in the viewport - even on my seven year old machine! And each update comes with a slew of great improvements, including modeling ones every single update. Bugs are often squashed overnight. The amount of help, resources, free assets, and the plugin ecosystem is tremendous. The Cycles renderer is strong. Very strong.

My main concern (viewport performance) is being addressed now as well. OpenSubDiv is already a great boost, and other improvements have been made.

It would be nice if Rob could share with us whether the new version will support OpenSubDiv in the newest version?

My fourth concern is the fact that I live in Vancouver, and the currency conversion turns out to be pretty bad: 530 dollars! Plus $400 for the upgrade to 2016. I mean, not too bad seeing I would be upgrading from v9.6.
In truth, money is the least of my concerns at this point.


In a nutshell:
1) I like openness in a company/institute and a public roadmap.
2) I like my 3d apps to be integrated.
3) I like good updates, and great new features. More importantly, good character animation tools, and good modeling tools.

I suppose I already made my decision... :(

I'll think it over some more the upcoming day. If I do decide to completely leave Lightwave, perhaps I can give away my LW 9.6 license to someone who wishes to take advantage of the upgrade (although I am unsure the four days will be time enough - perhaps someone living here in Vancouver?).

Sorry for my ramblings.

ernpchan
09-26-2015, 05:10 PM
I suppose I already made my decision... :(



If 9.6 serves your purpose then there really isn't a need to upgrade. Don't spend your money on something you don't need.

I do agree with a previous post that showcasing what 2016 will be would help those that are undecided. This boils down to a simple business transaction. If you don't have what I want to buy, why should I give you my money?

lwanmtr
09-26-2015, 05:20 PM
While I'm not opposed to the new pricing and want to upgrade....

It seems that you gave an extremely short notice on the deadline to lock it in...specailly doing it over a weekend, when many may not see the email or be able to wrangle the money before the 4 days are up.

There is also an email I have dated Sept-8 that shows the upgrade price option available til Oct-12...not Sept-30...Why the change?

jwiede
09-26-2015, 05:21 PM
I'm here and monitoring. I've been helping folks all day.

Unfortunately, given the posted support hours, whether you're also available outside of them is kind of moot because folks reading the posted hours have no way of knowing that.

jeric_synergy
09-26-2015, 05:30 PM
Sorry for my ramblings.
No worries, but I think your mind is made up.

Just take the money and purchase something you've REALLY craved, rather than something that duplicates the functionality you're already happily getting from Blender. In the future if LW comes out with a gottahavit feature, well, you rolled the dice, no?

Peace of mind is definitely worth something too. :lwicon:

digefxgrp
09-26-2015, 05:31 PM
What's a rough ETA on the 2016 release?
Sadly I'm not going to be able to do this current promotion, but will consider upgrading at $495 depending on what the new feature list includes. Currently the combination of my "World's most baddass configuration of LW9.6 Modeler", along with Modo 901, is doing a hero job getting everything I need accomplished. However lately I've been thinking it'd be nice to once again get current with LW as I haven't done a version upgrade since 9.6.

We're also just a couple months away from the typical slew of the many deep-discount Flash-Sales that everyone does around Cyber-Monday, so that too will factor in on where I'll spend my limited monies.

Hopefully you'll take a page from 'The Foundry's' playbook and do a nice series of pre-release-sneak-peaks to show us "undecided's" why we need to come back home to Newtek :thumbsup:

zogthedoomed
09-26-2015, 05:33 PM
Exactly. Thank you.

Errr... you realize you've had months to read the 2015 page and figure out if the new tools make sense for you, right?


erm .. yes .. as I said a few lines before that .. I didn't upgrade to 2015 because there was no benefit to me. The convincing I need is whether I should now do just that for the tidy sum of Ģ313, despite the fact I don't want it and likely won't download it, on the off chance that 2016 is all that is being implied, for which I'll have to pay an additional Ģ313. Newtek haven't exactly got a good record when it comes to living upto promises so yes, I need convincing that the initial outlay of Ģ313 won't be a waste. Being told I've got to pay up in the next 3 days or face an effective surcharge doesn't sit well.

Don't get me wrong .. I think it makes perfect sense to Newtek and I'm sure to most customers. Even to me if I was solely reliant on it to make a living but in my present circumstances, no. Pay up and make your sacrifice now in return for a promise of glory in the future. Lol .. no, I've heard that before. Call me a doubting Thomas but I want proof. Its a financial decision .. show me the goods, I'll show you the money. I'm starting to feel like Newtek have made the decision for me.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 05:38 PM
While I'm not opposed to the new pricing and want to upgrade....

It seems that you gave an extremely short notice on the deadline to lock it in...specailly doing it over a weekend, when many may not see the email or be able to wrangle the money before the 4 days are up.

I think there's some confusion about the deal for HardCORE members running out on the 30th Sept.

There's no 'lock in' as such, it's just LW3DG's way of saying thanks for your support HardCORE members.

If you take advantage of it, you're not locking yourself into anything. Your just getting a great deal.

The new pricing structure is going to be there for everyone whether they take advantage of the deal or not. It's just that before the new structure kicks in, LW3DG want to say 'Hey guys. You've been awesome in your support of us over the years and we'd like you to take advantage of the new pricing structure now starting from LW2015 instead of waiting until the next release. You have until 30th Sept to take it up and upgrade to LW2015 for $295, otherwise you'll have to pay your regular post/charter price to upgrade to LW2015'.

And that's it. No lock in to anything.

Once the next release is out, the new pricing structure will kick in for everyone equally.

zogthedoomed
09-26-2015, 05:52 PM
I think there's some confusion about the deal for HardCORE members running out on the 30th Sept.

There's no 'lock in' as such, it's just LW3DG's way of saying thanks for your support HardCORE members.



Hang about .. are you saying that this 4 day deadline is ONLY for the Hardcore/Charter people to get a $100 discount? That the rest of us aren't being forced into paying for a 2015 upgrade until we see whats in 2016? Because if thats the case I take everything back and have no beef what so ever.

jwiede
09-26-2015, 06:13 PM
I think the real problem here is that LW3DG tried to do/announce too many things at once, and that's causing a lot of confusion.

The new pricing model (from 2016 onwards) should have been handled/announced entirely independent of anything else, and a week or so given over to answering questions, etc. on it. Then, subsequently the $295 Charter/Post-Charter deal could be put forth (self-contained) as a "Charter/Post-Charter Flash Sale!" -- I believe that would have led to much less overall confusion.

By trying to mix the two together, and even referring the "flash sale" folks to the "new pricing model" announcement for "more info", it just needlessly muddled the situation. The situation wound up diluting some of the "impact" of the "flash sale", because there was so much confusion over the new pricing model terms themselves. The whole point of "flash sales" is to encourage impulse purchase, but potential customers still trying to sort out the new pricing will be suspicious of impulse purchase terms unless and until they already fully grasp the "normal" pricing model.

I consider both the new pricing model and the flash sale as generally positive actions by LW3DG, they just suffered a bit from timing, and less than clear terms. I just see the way the situation played out as strong evidence LW3DG needs more experienced marketing leadership, and that's an issue customers have been raising for a LONG time. Still, they are doing a reasonable job of answering questions around the pricing model, and I tend to believe they will similarly handle any issues around the term/notification problems w.r.t. the flash sale.

I will also say I'm quite happy to see any sort of dialogue between LW3DG and customers, as in this thread, and hope it continues as a regular thing. I believe LW3DG's total lack of communication with customers did very significant damage to Lightwave's market perception and reputation. LW3DG had no legitimate justification for withholding customer communication, IMO, regardless of the past events.

I upgraded my LW11 to 2015 for the Post-Charter flash sale price, in support of them trying to do better for Charter/Post-Charter members, and move forwards. I certainly won't blindly buy into LW2016, but LW3DG's recent actions and communication at least lead me to believe there is still some hope for Lightwave's recovery. Time will tell.

lwanmtr
09-26-2015, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I agree...too many emails in too short a time. Clarifying it for charter/post charter would have been good. I was a lil late for that.

Looking at the site, the $395 price does say til Oct-12, which is good for my situation..hehe.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 06:26 PM
Yeah, I agree...too many emails in too short a time. Clarifying it for charter/post charter would have been good. I was a lil late for that.

Looking at the site, the $395 price does say til Oct-12, which is good for my situation..hehe.

Which site? I see September 30th?

lwanmtr
09-26-2015, 06:31 PM
The store on lightwave site. Maybe it shows different if you're a charter/post charter member?
I see $395 til oct-12

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 06:35 PM
Hi guys,

I think this explains it perfectly

Digital Deuce says:

Current owners of ANY LightWave Version - promotion upgrade to 2015 - $395
Current Charter/Post charter - promotion upgrade to 2015 - $295

this gets everyone up to 2015. From this point forward, upgrades are $295. Fall behind, and it's $795

Current pricing of LightWave 2015 new license is $995. Current promotion of a cross-grade makes that $695

Once this promotion has gone away. Upgrades go back to standard $495 for regular and Post Charter users, and $395 for Charter. Full license is $995, no cross-grade promotion.

Once 2016 is available - Full License is $1195. Stay current - and your upgrade is $295. Fall behind and it's $795.

Charter/Post Charter benefit is not going away - the benefit will manifest through special deals just for those members past 2016.

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 06:35 PM
Oh yes, I see where you're talking about although the main site says September 30th.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 06:47 PM
Hang about .. are you saying that this 4 day deadline is ONLY for the Hardcore/Charter people to get a $100 discount? That the rest of us aren't being forced into paying for a 2015 upgrade until we see whats in 2016? Because if thats the case I take everything back and have no beef what so ever.

I'm not sure how far back your knowledge surrounding this deal goes, but for the benefit of those who are not that familiar with the whole thing here's a recap.

Earlier this year (June I think) LW3DG began a campaign to actively encourage new/existing users to upgrade or cross over from another software package to LW2015 for $395. This caused a bit of a s##t storm among HardCORE members because they didn't qualify for this deal but nonetheless it was what it was. Now remember, at this time there was absolutely no indication that there was to be a new pricing structure.

Fast forward to today LW3DG are still promoting the same deal (or similar) deals for non HardCORE members to upgrade to LW2015 for $395 but have now announced that there is to be a new pricing structure that will apply to everyone starting from the next release of LW. Out with the old in with the new. But what they're doing now is offering the new pricing structure to HardCORE members right now by giving them the opportunity to upgrade to LW2015 for $295 instead of their regular upgrade price. But this is only available (at the moment) until 30th September (although this may be extended).

Non HardCORE members can still take advantage of the current $395 deal to LW2015 up until 12 October 2015.

After these deals have expired (and assuming LW3DG don't come up with another promotion), prices will revert to the current pricing structure for non HardCORE members and regular discount prices for HardCORE members and will stay that way until the new release of LW when the new pricing structure that applies to everyone kicks in.

And yes no one is being force to buy into LW2015 by 30th September whatsoever. You just need to be aware that if you don't have LW2015 in time for the next release of LW you'll have to pay $795 for that release instead of the $295 that users of LW2015 will get because they are up to date.

Hope that helps.

lwanmtr
09-26-2015, 06:47 PM
Thanks jboudreau, that does a better explain things.

Yeah, I had to check on the store to be sure

HarverdGrad
09-26-2015, 06:47 PM
This is a tough one for me. I have worked with Lightwave since the Amiga versions, left LW for a while for C4d, then returned when version 7 was released, and stopped upgrading after version 9.6. Nowadays, I predominantly work in Blender, and I even sponsor the Blender Foundation every month. I still use LW 9.6 to render things once in a fortnight.

I have been burned twice before by "great new features on the way, pay now, or miss out and pay much more!" kinda deals, and I swore NEVER to fall for that one again. "Trust me! I can't tell you any specifics, but it's gonna be great!" I very much dislike this approach. I realize this sales technique is used by other companies (Maxon, anyone?), and it just does not jive with me. At least show me one or two excellent new features.

The four day deadline feels like an extra shove in the back, and I recognize this deal for what it is: an application of human psychology in persuasion. And my first inclination is avoidance.

Erikals mentioned earlier in this thread that upgrading any 3d software is going to be painful (I assume he meant in terms of financial investment) - of course, this is untrue in the case of Blender.

I am now at a point where I feel I am at a cross roads: to keep Lightwave in my "3d life", or not. To be honest, I have switched over to Blender almost completely in these last ~five years, and I have been checking out new versions of Lightwave (and Modo).

Thing is, I really LOVE Blender's completely open road map. I know what to expect. Same with 3D Coat: the company/developer is also very open as to new features. Photoline: same thing - the beta is available for testing, and the devs are very open in their communication.

If anything, in these last couple of years I have come to really appreciate this type of openness from companies. Even AutoDesk's communication is starting to improve in this regard. And the communities, on a whole, respond in a very positive manner.

Then there is Newtek and Maxon: not very open at all, nor very communicative. Well, Maxon is actually much worse than Newtek. I suppose Newtek was taken aback by the Core negativity, and decided to run deep and silent for the most part.

A secondary concern is the lack of modeler improvement, and the lack of modeler<->layout integration. That never agreed with me, although I learned to live with it. It is now 2015 going on 2016, and after 25 years of development, Lightwave still is a fragmented application.

This may not be a concern to some here, but I LIKE an integrated 3d application. Sure, I will switch to 3dCoat for sculpting or texturing, but I want my primary 3d app to be a "whole". I still regard Lightwave's fragmentation into two apps to be its Achilles's heel. Although some here regard it as a "strength". I feel an isolation mode in a 3d app work much better. Anyway, water under the bridge. Just a personal opinion, albeit a strongly felt one.

The reality is, we will not see the unification happen in the upcoming version, and perhaps only two more versions down the road (30 year anniversary, perhaps? :hey:.

Thirdly, Blender keeps growing stronger, and stronger. I do character animation, and the latest version includes OpenSubDiv - a quick test yesterday left me stunned: a 2.5 million subd'd tris character's animation FPS went up from 1.5fps to 20fps in the viewport - even on my seven year old machine! And each update comes with a slew of great improvements, including modeling ones every single update. Bugs are often squashed overnight. The amount of help, resources, free assets, and the plugin ecosystem is tremendous. The Cycles renderer is strong. Very strong.

My main concern (viewport performance) is being addressed now as well. OpenSubDiv is already a great boost, and other improvements have been made.

It would be nice if Rob could share with us whether the new version will support OpenSubDiv in the newest version?

My fourth concern is the fact that I live in Vancouver, and the currency conversion turns out to be pretty bad: 530 dollars! Plus $400 for the upgrade to 2016. I mean, not too bad seeing I would be upgrading from v9.6.
In truth, money is the least of my concerns at this point.


In a nutshell:
1) I like openness in a company/institute and a public roadmap.
2) I like my 3d apps to be integrated.
3) I like good updates, and great new features. More importantly, good character animation tools, and good modeling tools.

I suppose I already made my decision... :(

I'll think it over some more the upcoming day. If I do decide to completely leave Lightwave, perhaps I can give away my LW 9.6 license to someone who wishes to take advantage of the upgrade (although I am unsure the four days will be time enough - perhaps someone living here in Vancouver?).

Sorry for my ramblings.

I feel the same way & that's not a bad thing.
Blender is exciting software :thumbsup:

prometheus
09-26-2015, 07:12 PM
mine seem to be 295 usd.. not exactly specified in dollars but translated to swedish crowns...first I had to check some currency exchanges sites, and got different results...but after checking, it seems to be correct, and to that adding the vat of 25&

Very tempting offer...and now it doesnīt seem that confusing as the earlier offer, and It is in fact a better offer...this might do it for me...regardless of that I havenīt really tested the demo fully yet.
so the offer they have now is way better it seems.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:29 PM
I think there's some confusion about the deal for HardCORE members running out on the 30th Sept.

There's no 'lock in' as such, it's just LW3DG's way of saying thanks for your support HardCORE members.

If you take advantage of it, you're not locking yourself into anything. Your just getting a great deal.

The new pricing structure is going to be there for everyone whether they take advantage of the deal or not. It's just that before the new structure kicks in, LW3DG want to say 'Hey guys. You've been awesome in your support of us over the years and we'd like you to take advantage of the new pricing structure now starting from LW2015 instead of waiting until the next release. You have until 30th Sept to take it up and upgrade to LW2015 for $295, otherwise you'll have to pay your regular post/charter price to upgrade to LW2015'.

And that's it. No lock in to anything.

Once the next release is out, the new pricing structure will kick in for everyone equally.

Exactly! Thanks for your comments.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:33 PM
Rob, here are my thoughts. I purchased LW for the first time at [6], and upgraded to each version through 11. I hated the v10/Core experience, and it made me so wary I was a late updater to 11, and as primarily a game modeler/texture artist, did not find the updates in 2015 to be compelling. What I've been looking for, and I think many other present and recent past users have been looking for, is clear, unambiguous information regarding the development direction of the product at a fundamental level. IMO, both Layout and Modeler are really showing their age both in terms of UI as well as underlying architecture, and people would like to see that in both applications, a fundamental modernization program is under way. For me and quite a few others, for Modeler and modeling/texturing foundation.

I know I don't see evidence in 11.6.3 of the kinds of architectural and product design evolution some of us would like to see, and I haven't heard anything about LW 2015 that would lead me to believe things are significantly different there.

Now, you've used the expression "trust me", but it isn't a matter of trust. People make informed investment decisions based on real, concrete information: what they see, and what they've been told will soon come to pass. Couldn't you be more forthcoming before asking people to make their investment decisions? I don't mean marketing hyperbole -- I mean specific information which users can assess to decide whether the priorities you've set for development match up with their own usage of the software? I know it has not been you're practice to open up to the users, but I can tell you the Maya team has been presenting some really informative hour long sessions where the team leader for product areas, e.g. modeling, animation, etc. speaks at length and very specifically and frankly about where the software is now, and where they intend to focus their efforts based on their own assessment and user feedback. I have found these discussions to be a total breath of fresh air, and they make me feel both more connected into the product as well as give me confidence that they are taking the product in a direction I have no problem supporting via an annual investment. Note there is nothing said in these videos which is speculative, no specific promises are being made. They haven't given away any "secrets". Kind of a surprise coming from big, bad AD. But a good one.

I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at the positive reaction of the customer base. You might even see some people come back who had appeared to have been gone forever. The marketplace, especially in terms of licensing practices is really changing, and some may not like where the other vendors are pushing them. There is an opportunity here. But information first, THEN ask the users for their on-going support.

<edit>
You did say -- more details coming in the coming weeks. Looking forward to it!

Great comments here...we really appreciate your feedback on this and will certainly be discussing your comments amongst the team and seeing how we can best share the upcoming information.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:34 PM
Great to see you posting Rob, always love the positivity. :thumbsup:

So I'm still wearing my "In Rob We Trust" t-shirt - we've upgraded our two charter seats, hoping for good things from 2016.

Very cool! Thanks for your support but really please also recognize the amazing work of the development team.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:39 PM
It seems clear enough. Once you are using the current version (however you get there) future upgrades will be $295. Doesn't matter if your charter, post charter, non charter or allergic to cats, current users will get the $295 price. If you're on a previous version, you have to upgrade to 2015 otherwise, the next upgrade will cost you $795. It's just up to you if you will upgrade to 2015 or not and whether you want to save some money with this promo or not or take your chance and wait to see if 2016 or whatever it will be called is worth it.

You got it! Exactly. But for right now no one except Charter and Post Charter folks get the $295 upgrade price to LightWave 2015 others would have to wait until the version after 2015 to get the upgrade for $295.

prometheus
09-26-2015, 07:40 PM
I have to ask...Just tell me one thing.. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Then Iīm in for the deal :)
ehh..whacko :)

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:42 PM
I have consistently stated on this forum that I do not want integration. However, because versions 10, 11, & 2015 were very thoughtful improvements over their previous versions, I'm willing to try it when it comes. My hope is that it won't be like Core when old timers like me were completely gobsmacked by the awful UI, and Powers & Co are going to make it as painless as possible. I really really like the interface the way it is. But I do always at least try to understand these newfangled ideas and see if there are genuine improvements in efficiency whilst working.

Previously Megalodon2.0 called me a fanboy. I would like to correct that insult. I'm a fanoldman. Thank you.

What we are doing is really nothing like CORE in the way that you mean. Our goal for integration is to do it in a LightWave manner and with an awareness of the strengths of the current workflow.

prometheus
09-26-2015, 07:49 PM
For me I have liked the direction it took after core, except 2015 wasnīt for me at that time and those features it delivered, but this offer seems so great that it canīt be refused..then I have to have faith and hope more of my
hopes getīs some attention the next time...sure canīt please them all.

modeler tools still needs a boost, some vertices, point manipulation in layout..weight paint in layout, and I still prefer the UI interface almost as it is, some minor color or fine touching in those UI elements, but the xpanels and window panel rezizing and docking is really needed in my opinion.
and of course..something needs to be done with volumetric handling hvīs or introduce a new system or improved system for skytracer volumetrics..it needs to match up against ogo taiki and ozone a bit more.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:55 PM
See how easy that was? A post EVERY NOW AND THEN in a specified forum - as MANY of us have been asking for YEARS now - would go a long way. And then you could have avoided my negative posts. How simple it would be if there were only communication for the ENTIRE userbase.

Thank you for the clarification and certainty.

No worries, it’s actually a pleasure to begin discussing this stuff with you…and my delay was based on the fact that we were not close enough to something actually real previously. I only prefer to speak about things when I feel they are far enough along to be comfortably certain of success. This has been my approach throughout my career and it has always seemed to work well.

It has honestly been frustrating in many ways for me to remain silent because the team and I are very excited about what we have been working on. It is real... and it has taken a lot of thought and focus to achieve the goal of significantly changing LightWave's base architecture in very fundamental ways that were lagging or which were creating barriers for our development while maintaining the "soul" and positive aspects of the program that we all know and love. Essentially setting up LightWave for the next 25 years and thinking long and hard about the ground level systems needed to get us where we want to go and allow us to innovate for our users.

As I mentioned previously ChronoSculpt was just a little peak at that and it was recognized as an innovative tool by many in the industry and press for sure.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 07:56 PM
I have to ask...Just tell me one thing.. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.

We better head back. They mostly come out at night. Mostly.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 07:56 PM
he couldn't, as he didn't know if 'Hydra' would work fine inside LightWave or make it go bananas...

Just realized that "Hydra" was a code name for a very early version of what we are working with now and it was only really one aspect of it which has evolved far beyond the early prototype.

prometheus
09-26-2015, 07:59 PM
We better head back. They mostly come out at night. Mostly.

I say we take off.. and do an upgrade, itīs the only way to be sure :)

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:00 PM
Given the inherent uncertainty of bleeding edge development and the inherited legacy of the Core debacle, I suspect the good Lightwave doctors could not confidently reassure us until they knew for sure the "patient" was not D.O.A...

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah.
Not worried about the "patient" being D.O.A. really because even on a bad day LightWave rocks, but more like waiting until the technology was significantly advanced before doing a lot of talk.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 08:02 PM
I say we take off.. and do an upgrade, itīs the only way to sure :)

I just need to know one thing man.

Where they are.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:04 PM
Can't tell from reading this thread but is anybody else besides me excited about this statement? Bring it on, I says. :D

But in the meantime, no speculation please. Those threads always end up ugly (not nice and civil like this one.) Let's just quietly wait and see.

G.

The team and I are excited as well on a very personal level. Not just because of new upcoming features but really because of what the coming future releases represent for the overall potential of LightWave and LightWave workflows.

Now, understand that what we are doing will be an ongoing process and we have very intentionally planned it in phases but the most important things in the current focus are ARCHITECTURAL in nature and are really meant to "blow the doors off" of past limitations that frustrated users and which frustrated us.

robpowers3d
09-26-2015, 08:11 PM
i have to ask...just tell me one thing.. You're going out there to destroy them, right? Not to study. Not to bring back. But to wipe them out.
Then iīm in for the deal :)
ehh..whacko :)

LOL! :thumbsup:

prometheus
09-26-2015, 08:15 PM
I just need to know one thing man.

Where they are.

In your lightwave account....not sure if the alien character content is there in the content though, could be somewhere else...keep it tight everybody.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 08:16 PM
I don't know about anyone else but architectural changes are what have concerned me most since CORE or the lack thereof. I was patient through LW 11 and even LW2015 when there was no real indication that any deep changes were being made but simply new featues added on top of a system that wouldn't scale well overall. I figured that overhauling architecture in a existing application like LightWave would take considerable time. I can't think of a single feature that I would want more then an overhaul of LW's architecture so I'm certainly looking forward to seeing what has been done to improve the Lightwave experience.

Megalodon2.0
09-26-2015, 08:23 PM
I will also say I'm quite happy to see any sort of dialogue between LW3DG and customers, as in this thread, and hope it continues as a regular thing. I believe LW3DG's total lack of communication with customers did very significant damage to Lightwave's market perception and reputation. LW3DG had no legitimate justification for withholding customer communication, IMO, regardless of the past events.

Completely agree.

And as we've said countless times previously, the discussion does not have to be a total reveal.

Example... Question: Is integration of Modeler with Layout still on the menu and is it being worked on? Answer: Yes. Integration is still our goal and we have been rewriting the underlying architecture to just that end.

You see? Nothing precise was divulged yet now we know that the goal has not changed from what we were told. And this very question has been asked MANY times on the forum only to be completely ignored by LW3DG.

It really isn't that difficult. And as certain MINOR milestones are met and working, they too can be divulged here and there showing COMMUNICATION between LW3DG and its customers. It really is not asking a great deal and - aside from those who are satisfied with the current amount of communication - it will go a LONG WAY to showing those of us who require more communication that LW3DG is indeed listening AND communicating.

The truth is... LW3DG wants and NEEDS its userbase to be behind them - and NOT showing negativity. But they must give in order to receive.

RobertGraham
09-26-2015, 08:28 PM
Rob, thanks for the clarifications you've got me interested in what 'next' is gonna bring. Next few weeks might be interesting it seems.

hrgiger
09-26-2015, 08:31 PM
In your lightwave account....not sure if the alien character content is there in the content though, could be somewhere else...keep it tight everybody.

Stay Frosty. And yes, hrgiger is making an Aliens Reference.

jboudreau
09-26-2015, 08:35 PM
Rob, thanks for the clarifications you've got me interested in what 'next' is gonna bring. Next few weeks might be interesting it seems.

+1 :)

prometheus
09-26-2015, 08:41 PM
In your lightwave account....not sure if the alien character content is there in the content though, could be somewhere else...keep it tight everybody.

sorry for spinning off topic here..one thing leads to another in the internet world, so talking about alien and content, not exactly The alien..but a nice rig..and since kurt smith got nominated though not a win for the emmys, he created the rig I think, maybe lino updated it?
not sure if it is packed in some content in the accounts page.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?112090-FREE-RIG-Alien-Emissary/page3

and by the way..about structure changes, sure I am also keen on seeing when it sort of starts to show even more..there are things in the workflow that would be welcome, and maybe that requires deep structure change before that happens, such as much improved undo system in layout, the general workflow of working with presets and getting rid of those requesters everytime when applying surfaces instead of drag and drop surface materials would be most welcome for a smooth workflow experience, as well as implementing object presets to drag and drop directly in to the instance panel, so you can very fast both acess And see an overview of rock types, trees and pick and drag to the instanceFx tab, set percentage of them and off you go.

such things empowers you with the ability to be creative without the tech being annoying obstacle in your road to that goal.

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 08:50 PM
In your lightwave account....not sure if the alien character content is there in the content though, could be somewhere else...keep it tight everybody.

Found it, just bought it, now upgraded to it. Game over man. GAME OVER!

Megalodon2.0
09-26-2015, 08:53 PM
No worries, it’s actually a pleasure to begin discussing this stuff with you…and my delay was based on the fact that we were not close enough to something actually real previously. I only prefer to speak about things when I feel they are far enough along to be comfortably certain of success. This has been my approach throughout my career and it has always seemed to work well.

While I agree it's GREAT to hear this information, selling to customers does not do well with less information. Your approach may have worked well with your career, but as you can see with sales it creates a great amount of discord and negativity. I do understand the reasons behind it, but a COMPLETE lack of communication - as we have witnessed here - is not helpful to EITHER party. I hope that you come to see this. The forum - THIS forum - is where most users get their LW information. A simple OFFICIAL post in a specific area once a week - or once every two weeks - would do wonders for people such as myself.


It has honestly been frustrating in many ways for me to remain silent because the team and I are very excited about what we have been working on. It is real... and it has taken a lot of thought and focus to achieve the goal of significantly changing LightWave's base architecture in very fundamental ways that were lagging or which were creating barriers for our development while maintaining the "soul" and positive aspects of the program that we all know and love. Essentially setting up LightWave for the next 25 years and thinking long and hard about the ground level systems needed to get us where we want to go and allow us to innovate for our users.

In regards to myself, you have no idea how good it is to hear this. You have seen a great amount of negativity in my posts - in recent years primarily DUE to the lack of communication - but I want Lightwave to move forward AND succeed. The short paragraph you wrote above can EASILY change a persons perception from negative to positive - and for me you have done that. You see... I WANT TO BELIEVE. :) But unlike religion, we need to SEE the fruits and not just be told about them. I hope that LW2016 will show those fruits.

And quite sincerely, I truly hope you knock it out of the park.

Snosrap
09-26-2015, 08:55 PM
This seems like a really good and fair opportunity for users to get current. But I have a question. As a current charter member and 11.6.3 user, I have held out of 2015 as I felt it was fairly weak on features etc. plus money has been tight, but if I take advantage of this offer and get up to date with 2015 will I have the same $295 upgrade cost if I lag behind and not upgrade to 2016 until the last minute before 2017 released? Essentially staying current but a year behind. :) I can probably talk the boss (the wife) into this now, but no way in another month or two talk her into it again. With the kids college bills and what not, I've got to save up small chunks of money and about a year from now I could probably do this again but not in a month or so especially with Christmas coming. :)

Verlon
09-26-2015, 09:11 PM
All I know is that every time I give up and upgrade Modo, Newtek does something REALLY tempting a few days later. I swear they are watching my account or something.

So, if you are looking for something amazing in LW2017, just wait and hope Modo 1001 (they really need a new naming policy at that point. How about Modo 911 in honor of a fine automobile?) is enough to lure me in. Alternatively, you could take up a collection and pay me to do it even if it is complete rubbish. :)

lightscape
09-26-2015, 09:14 PM
Not exactly, as I stated before we will have special promos moving forward that only are for Charter and Post-Charter members.

I should screencap this post :D

Shabazzy
09-26-2015, 09:16 PM
Snostrap, it won't matter when you get the latest version, so long as you get it before it's obsolete. I.e. get 2015 before 2016 is released and makes it obsolete, same for 2016 to 2017 and so on. That way you only pay $295 per upgrade.

prometheus
09-26-2015, 09:29 PM
All I know is that every time I give up and upgrade Modo, Newtek does something REALLY tempting a few days later. I swear they are watching my account or something.

So, if you are looking for something amazing in LW2017, just wait and hope Modo 1001 (they really need a new naming policy at that point. How about Modo 911 in honor of a fine automobile?) is enough to lure me in. Alternatively, you could take up a collection and pay me to do it even if it is complete rubbish. :)

he..naming policy, before lightwave went from 11.6.3 to lw 2015, I had a question put forward about that..if it was a good Idea to change the naming policy since so many others are doing that, and it will be easy to backtrack versions in discussion etc...then the lightwave group did just that..not sure if my small ego had something to do with it :) Itīs probably been on the lightwave group minds as well.

Snosrap
09-26-2015, 09:36 PM
Snostrap, it won't matter when you get the latest version, so long as you get it before it's obsolete. I.e. get 2015 before 2016 is released and makes it obsolete, same for 2016 to 2017 and so on. That way you only pay $295 per upgrade.

I hope that's the case.:) I don't mind getting stuff late (Playstations, Xboxes and iPhones come to mind) as long I get it!

prometheus
09-26-2015, 09:37 PM
Found it, just bought it, now upgraded to it. Game over man. GAME OVER!

How far can we take this :)
Maybe we can build a fire, sing a couple of songs, why donīt we try that? but only before it is game over at september 30th
I need to go to sleep now, or else the whole script from my favourite movie will be posted here :)

hdace
09-26-2015, 09:39 PM
What we are doing is really nothing like CORE in the way that you mean. Our goal for integration is to do it in a LightWave manner and with an awareness of the strengths of the current workflow.

I'm scared. Will you send someone to hold my hand the first time I use it?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Thanks for the reassurance. Very excited!

wesleycorgi
09-26-2015, 09:39 PM
With 2015, I decided to lapse on my Core membership. Then there was the LW Brush/2015 upgrade. So I decided to upgrade an old LW 8 license. As a vote of confidence, I think I may now upgrade my LW 11 license, especially since I've decided to give up on Modo (I stayed current up until 801).

BTW, LW Brush rocks! I hope 2016 doesn't break too many of my third party toys.

GandB
09-26-2015, 10:17 PM
Alright; so everyone's put in their bit about the 4-day "flash sale" being way too short, so there's that.

Now I'm reading that no matter if you upgrade to current LW now, or down the road; as long as you stay current, it's only $295. So that's good to hear, as it'll give us upgrade-slackers more time to see in the coming weeks/months if we want to upgrade. One of my concerns (and I know this has been somewhat addressed by others) is that LW IS going into a yearly cycle of upgrades. If that isn't the case, then what in the world was the point of giving it the naming convention starting with LW2015? I truly don't see any other reason for it, other than to do an annual release. IF that is the case; then the $295 upgrade cycle is basically a subscription (although an inexpensive one, compared to many others). The difference being, that you can continue to use the last version you upgraded to without an expiration of services.

@ Rob: Will you, for once, answer those of us who have been asking for a LONG time now. Is the LW3DG making inroads into the game development field; or are you sticking with what you know (film and arch)? Because if not, many of us are wasting our time here. Even (free forever) Blender is making great strides in that arena. I'm not asking you to commit to anything at all, I just want an actual answer. So far, we've been largely ignored.

lightscape
09-26-2015, 11:11 PM
GandB - which version of lw or modo are you in? You post the same thing on both forums over and over again.

GandB
09-26-2015, 11:34 PM
As I've also posted; I'm still in 9.6 as I haven't seen too much in the way of Game Dev in years.

Greenlaw
09-26-2015, 11:37 PM
Ah Greenlaw... you fanboy!

Why yes, I am. LightWave is fun to play with and it pays the bills too, so why not? :p

G.

Tim21
09-26-2015, 11:38 PM
Rob, thanks for the clarifications you've got me interested in what 'next' is gonna bring. Next few weeks might be interesting it seems.

Same here :)

jeric_synergy
09-27-2015, 12:27 AM
On the difficulty of coming up with $$$: assuming it's a least a year between upgrades, if you sock away $295/52= $5.70 A WEEK as soon as you upgrade, you should be golden until 2019.

So, y'know, skip a venté latte ONCE A WEEK, and there's your next upgrade.

erikals
09-27-2015, 01:09 AM
@ Rob: Will you, for once, answer those of us who have been asking for a LONG time now. Is the LW3DG making inroads into the game development field; or are you sticking with what you know (film and arch)? Because if not, many of us are wasting our time here. Even (free forever) Blender is making great strides in that arena. I'm not asking you to commit to anything at all, I just want an actual answer. So far, we've been largely ignored.

hi,
i'm not a game artist, so wonder, what improvements did you have in mind ?

DCjr
09-27-2015, 02:08 AM
Yeah , it was tough for me, but I use Maya LT and 2015 subs, just for game work. Ive been considering getting into Arnold for Lightwave and Maya. But thats outside of game work. I wish lightwave was more game friendly.

lardbros
09-27-2015, 02:49 AM
Tell us more Rob... Tell us more! :)
I've only just caught up on all of this, I never got the email about pricing (guessing as I'd already upgraded my licenses, both home and work's).
Sounds like a very fair deal to me... Thanks for honouring us Hardcore/Charter members!

OnlineRender
09-27-2015, 02:59 AM
If 9.6 serves your purpose then there really isn't a need to upgrade. Don't spend your money on something you don't need.



honestly though can interject , VPR is worth any update price , yeah it was implemented in 10 but 2015.3 its pretty solid and the ability to shift click on a surface is worth the investment alone.

this thread needs more cowbell

sami
09-27-2015, 03:42 AM
Great comments here...we really appreciate your feedback on this and will certainly be discussing your comments amongst the team and seeing how we can best share the upcoming information.

Hi Rob - hopefully I' haven't missed your appearance in this thread and you can answer my questions too. Like many here I too, am a long time LW professional since LW v4 on Win3.1.1, and never missed an upgrade except v10 which I wasn't convinced of - but I did jump to v11.x from 9.x which was awesome! Though I have not yet jutified my need for v2015 features yet. I also picked up Nevronmotion but it's sadly gathering dust now as the original kinect depth camera is pretty outdated and I'm guessing that software is abandoned and not set up to use newer better depth cameras?


I am also not on FB (nor will I ever) so all my LW news is from twitter, emails or here (which I try to avoid as the forums sometimes don't seem so productive in here). So I'm not sure what the best channels are for timely LW info if you hate FB.

My questions / feedback are: I'd appreciate if you could please answer them.

1) I intentionally bypassed the whole Core thing back in the day as it seemed muddled and everyone's hot button - is this what everyone is referring to about Charter/Post-Charter members?? I have no idea what this Charter business is - is there a link discussing it, or is this some grandfathered programme thing and not applicable/moot to me?

2) I was relieved to hear that the "new pricing model" was not subscription based. A longer discussion is probably for another thread, but I truly do not believe in subscription models as they make software usage a utility like a gas bill as an ongoing cost and not a one off justifiable capital expense. Can you confirm that LW will always continue to provide perpetual licenses?

3) I'm very excited about your comments on what is coming and the integration etc but I need to convey that despite business uncertainty about projected income from upgrades, this new pricing model smacks slightly of a "defacto subscription". Being "version current" is an addiction which a company might parlay, but ultimately keeping a pricing model that is based on features and NOT on arbitrary time/yearly cycles (like an annual subscription) actually provides the company with the motivation to noticeably improve upon their product. This uncertainty of take-up from your users means that you have to be constantly providing significant value adds to motivate customers to purchase beyond a good-faith version cycle or two (which I'd indicate is brand loyalty). Note Adobe who has no impetus since CS6 to really radically improve Photoshop etc now that theyve gone full subscription. So they are leading their users as opposed to catering to their users' needs by keeping them captive with their business model. Me skipping LW10 worked for me, and loyalty and significant changes pushed me to purchase 11.x - This purchasing power dynamic to me ensures that apart from my LWDG/Newtek "good-faith" bank (which is usually in credit ;-) ) - I am assured you guys will be motivated to improve LW should a majority of your customers good-faith banks get overdrawn. I'm concerned that you guys may go the Adobe route and change this dynamic. Can you please comment on this?

Either way as long as you don't go subscription-only, and you keep making great software and really push yourselves to innovate new features and improve underlying architecture and usability / UX enhancements, then I'll be able to justify every upgrade's price (assuming it's not a crazy price) and happily give you my $ in exchange for great software that lets me do cool stuff quickly!

TL: DR My point is- I like that if you drop the ball for a version, that winning me(i.e. users) back means the next version will be even better. Obviously, the more successful versions there are and less dropped balls, the bigger the balance in my good-faith bank will be and the more likely I'll pay higher prices or grab an upgrade earlier. In general over the years (and despite some BIG technology gaps in some features - which I've filled with apps like 3DCoat and Unity) LW has really hit the mark and made me a very happy customer who is happy with the purchases I've made - so thanks to you and the team and keep up the good work and please dont drop the ball!


Thanks for taking the time to communicate and let us know LW is alive and kicking butt! :-)

lightscape
09-27-2015, 03:58 AM
As I've also posted; I'm still in 9.6 as I haven't seen too much in the way of Game Dev in years.

And your modo version?

jeremydk
09-27-2015, 04:40 AM
I think LW is going to bite their *** on this one. On the upgrade as a non US citizen i have to pay 100$ in VAT and i don't want to. I will wait for their next desperate attempt to raise money and jump in then. They will make another attempt to get money from the 11.6.3 users that did not jump on the wagon this time.

lightscape
09-27-2015, 04:45 AM
pay 100$ in VAT and i don't want to.

You know what they say. Nothing is certain except for death and taxes. :D

zogthedoomed
09-27-2015, 05:35 AM
I'm not sure how far back your knowledge surrounding this deal goes, but for the benefit of those who are not that familiar with the whole thing here's a recap.

Earlier this year (June I think) LW3DG began a campaign to actively encourage new/existing users to upgrade or cross over from another software package to LW2015 for $395. This caused a bit of a s##t storm among HardCORE members because they didn't qualify for this deal but nonetheless it was what it was. Now remember, at this time there was absolutely no indication that there was to be a new pricing structure.

.......

And yes no one is being force to buy into LW2015 by 30th September whatsoever. You just need to be aware that if you don't have LW2015 in time for the next release of LW you'll have to pay $795 for that release instead of the $295 that users of LW2015 will get because they are up to date.

Hope that helps.



Perfect. Thank you.

Luc_Feri
09-27-2015, 07:01 AM
Such an exciting thread!! I can't wait, I'm still pumped using 2015.3 at the moment as there are some great updates with this version.

Maybe this thread has been confusing but I think the water can hopefully settle! I do think we can all finally unite going forward with a clear and rewarding upgrade path. I think the old upgrade option from ANY release was impossible to sustain financially even though it was a tremendous gesture.

It is only fair to the development team that we support them financially by staying current, but I guess some feel pressured into a quick purchase with the short deadline. I say that's just life and get on with it, as others have said this is a business and loyalty whilst nice can put your business down the drain hole if that loyalty is abused by the customer base too. If people didn't buy into 2015 because they thought it was weak why should they get LW2016 cheap as chips, it works both ways.

No one forces us to purchase software and we are free to disappear to Modo or 3dsMax/Maya at any time so we are all free to choose. It is only really right then that this new stay current for $295 onwards is the aim, the old upgrade cost from any version could not be sustained surely.

Hobbyists might feel the squeeze, I honestly feel for them but surely anyone that does this stuff professionally as a solo artist or small studio and earns a living doing this, you telling me you can't save aside a few hundred quid a year for an upgrade, seriously??? My upgrade to 2016 will cost around Ģ225. I can spend Ģ100 in manchester city on one night out with meals, taxis and drinks, my car insurance costs more than LW upgrade!!! :D

erikals
09-27-2015, 07:17 AM
You know what they say. Nothing is certain except for death and taxes. :D

hehe!!http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/biggrin.gif first time i hear that one... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

too true (!) :)

-------------------------

Luc, as far as i recall at least 30% of LightWavers are hobbyist...
edit: yep > http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?101561-how-do-you-use-LW

hrgiger
09-27-2015, 07:23 AM
What we are doing is really nothing like CORE in the way that you mean. Our goal for integration is to do it in a LightWave manner and with an awareness of the strengths of the current workflow.

This is the part that is interesting or curious at least. I know you said this same thing a few years back in your trip to Japan and that you said you would be coming out with new workflows that would address some of the limitations of having a seperate modeling and animation workspace and I'm assuming that at least some of those new workflows will be revealed in the next few weeks. I will wait to see what you people have been working on but personally I am concerned about how this will be handled as I assumed that same destination (words from when CORE was discontinued) meant that eventually we would have a unified workspace. In any event, I hope for better days ahead with LightWave.

prometheus
09-27-2015, 07:27 AM
I think LW is going to bite their *** on this one. On the upgrade as a non US citizen i have to pay 100$ in VAT and i don't want to. I will wait for their next desperate attempt to raise money and jump in then. They will make another attempt to get money from the 11.6.3 users that did not jump on the wagon this time.

I think you might be the one biting your own tail if you assume that, seems to me this latest offer will get quite a lot more folks jumping in on it..including a hardnecked not so big fan of the 2015 release like me:D
and that is despite I also have to pay 25% vat, and despite I am a hobbyist..and despite I am currently looking for jobs.
Hard decision to make economicly, but the offer is really good...and it may help in in the long run later on, itīs an investment and I feel I donīt want to be left behind lagging in the newest 2015 tech... with itīs bullet dynamics, bone dynamics, constaints., motors, hingest etc foremost..when the release first came..it was so buggy that I just gave up testing it..but seems to have been worked on for better stability now.

I had a meeting with an product designer and showcased lightwave and some stuff it may help him with, with the demo version I should some things with the new bone dynamics that was interesting even but itīs a long way to say if I will be working with him later or not.

The lw group has been putting forth a lot of offerings now in a short time, they canīt continue with that all the time though...at least not for a couple of months or a year or so..thatīs what I think.
I still think they need to adress demo versions or student versions in another way to meet autodesk free student versions and free versions for all school, thatīs a no brainer for the educators and market and what tool they would choose, Itīs a tough nut to crack though.

When I said I wasnīt a big fan of the 2015 release..It doesnīt necessarally mean that the lw team hasnīt been working hard, itīs hard for us non coders to understand the work they do and how much they actually are changing for future upcoming stuff.. that might not be so obvious in the release, so that I respect.

erikals
09-27-2015, 07:29 AM
might also be of interest, a poll posted 5 years ago...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?105641-what-area-do-you-use-LW-for


http://erikalstad.com/cgtemp/lwpoll.png

SaleVonGeist
09-27-2015, 07:59 AM
The team and I are excited as well on a very personal level. Not just because of new upcoming features but really because of what the coming future releases represent for the overall potential of LightWave and LightWave workflows.

Now, understand that what we are doing will be an ongoing process and we have very intentionally planned it in phases but the most important things in the current focus are ARCHITECTURAL in nature and are really meant to "blow the doors off" of past limitations that frustrated users and which frustrated us.

This indeed sounds very exciting!
I really hope that this means the days of things like "IFF file writing failed. An IFF file chunk exceeded..." (when having too much nodes in surface editor) will be behind us. Better communication between different Lightwave parts, ability to reference stuff "form here to there"...just thinking out loud here of course, but these kind of things come first to my mind when I read Rob's post.

I am looking forward to any info you can share in the upcoming weeks.

Cheers,
Sasa

HarverdGrad
09-27-2015, 08:17 AM
I'm curious about the statement that all future upgrades will be $295, if you don't let a subscription lapse.
Is this true?

OR, is Newtek going to go the route of Cinema 4D and offer a couple of tiers.. Base, Mid, Advanced etc.
And, the $295 will be for the base package only.

Would Rob, or Newtek Ghost Marketing like to chime in?

DigitalDeuce
09-27-2015, 08:22 AM
I'm curious about the statement that all future upgrades will be $295, if you don't let a subscription lapse.
Is this true?

OR, is Newtek going to go the route of Cinema 4D and offer a couple of tiers.. Base, Mid, Advanced etc.
And, the $295 will be for the base package only.

Would Rob, or Newtek Ghost Marketing like to chime in?

No tiers - and it's not a subscription.

Keep up-to-date - and your upgrade cost is $295
if you're behind a version or two - it's $795

this is shown here: https://www.lightwave3d.com/crossgrade_promo/

jeremydk
09-27-2015, 08:26 AM
my problem is that i don't need to update. I use LW for gamedev and 11.6.3 is more than enough. At some point i HAVE to update... New OS, 128bit computing or whatever. And at that point i have to pay the same for an upgrade as for a new licens because i was not a faithfull customer (been here since Amiga).
This year 795$ Next year 1095$, 2020 2095$ for the upgrade but 1195$ for a full license ;)
It might be better econimocally to wait. If i can use 11.6 for five more years i will be allright.
I am quite happy with the CC monthly payment. Hope NT will do that. Always newest version, no extra bills or bull.'

the current "offer" with taxes will set me back 500$
I supported HardCore....maybe that is why iīm a bit.....pessimistic about this "new era".

Snosrap
09-27-2015, 08:29 AM
I'm curious about the statement that all future upgrades will be $295, if you don't let a subscription lapse.
Is this true?

OR, is Newtek going to go the route of Cinema 4D and offer a couple of tiers.. Base, Mid, Advanced etc.
And, the $295 will be for the base package only.

Yes - it sounds true - all future upgrades will be $295. I don't see tiers at all unless it was to sell Layout separately. (Not sure many would jump on Modeler separately. :))

ernpchan
09-27-2015, 08:32 AM
Hm I think the cost to upgrade is the same if you're one version or 5 versions behind...$795. It's not $795 for every version your behind to just get current.

HarverdGrad
09-27-2015, 08:37 AM
Yes - it sounds true - all future upgrades will be $295. I don't see tiers at all unless it was to sell Layout separately. (Not sure many would jump on Modeler separately. :))

Well, if they can run the business at this price- then I might jump on board for at least one cycle and see what happens.
If it's more scripting like Genoma, or announcements of PMG or LWCad integration- that's not "visionary", and moving the product forward. It's keeping the same framework & adding plugins.

jeremydk
09-27-2015, 08:53 AM
Hm I think the cost to upgrade is the same if you're one version or 5 versions behind...$795. It's not $795 for every version your behind to just get current.

i am afraid i have seen this with other software companies. The more behind on versions the more expensive. For examples i have met recently, Vue would not upgrade my v7. I had to pay full license. Steinberg Cubase that i use for sound editing also punishes users if they are not 100% loyal. The more versions behind the more an upgrade will cost. I haven't shook Rob's hand on this deal and i think it is pretty much up to NT to decide what to do depending on customer trends. 795$ or 295$ is not the law....Dredd is ;)
So...anyway..i have to pay 400$ now (upgrade) and 300$ soon (maintenance)....thats close to 795$. I can wait and see if another offer might not turn up in a year or two.

Waves of light
09-27-2015, 09:00 AM
One more time... if you are using the current version the next realise will always be $295. Got it, ok.

jeric_synergy
09-27-2015, 09:08 AM
One more time... if you are using the current version the next realise will always be $295. Got it, ok.
Too tired to go look, but literally "always"? I thought it was to 2019.

DigitalDeuce
09-27-2015, 09:12 AM
Too tired to go look, but literally "always"? I thought it was to 2019.

No date of ending has ever been stated. Granted, prices may change - take for example the new structure that has been brought forth now - but for all intent and purpose - it is "always" -- there is no end date. Stay current, upgrades are $295.

Waves of light
09-27-2015, 09:15 AM
No date of ending has ever been stated. Granted, prices may change - take for example the new structure that has been brought forth now - but for all intent and purpose - it is "always" -- there is no end date. Stay current, upgrades are $295.

I thank you.

Marander
09-27-2015, 09:30 AM
Essentially setting up LightWave for the next 25 years and thinking long and hard about the ground level systems needed to get us where we want to go and allow us to innovate for our users.

OK convinced! Upgraded and Current :-)

Happily looking forward to 2016!

devin
09-27-2015, 10:43 AM
So if you were a Charter member and didn't upgrade to 11 or 2015 from v10, you lost your Charter membership and are ineligible for the $295 upgrade, correct? $395 is your upgrade price point instead?

I lost faith with version 10 for my personal license though we continued to upgrade at work. Sorry if this was addressed in the previous 17 pages of posts and I missed it but I want to confirm my that my assessment on pricing is correct. My upgrade option says $395 so I sadly assume so.

Thanks.

jboudreau
09-27-2015, 10:53 AM
So if you were a Charter member and didn't upgrade to 11 or 2015 from v10, you lost your Charter membership and are ineligible for the $295 upgrade, correct? $395 is your upgrade price point instead?

I lost faith with version 10 for my personal license though we continued to upgrade at work. Sorry if this was addressed in the previous 17 pages of posts and I missed it but I want to confirm my that my assessment on pricing is correct. My upgrade option says $395 so I sadly assume so.

Thanks.

Not sure you could find out from newtek if you are still a charter memeber or you can look in your account and see if it says charter membership. If you look in your account where you download lightwave 10.1 it would say if you are a charter member or not. I know I am a charter member and it says it in my account above version 10.1 Charter Membership, above version 11 Upgrade Charter and above 2015 Upgrade Charter.

So If you are still a charter memeber then you can upgrade for $295, If not they you pay $395 to upgrade

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason