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Philbert
09-09-2015, 11:16 AM
I just saw this sale posted.
http://static.lightwave3d.com/marketing/mailers/09082015/lw_upgrades/index.html

Just yesterday I upgraded for $495 Do you think they'd honor the sale or am I out of luck?

Oedo 808
09-09-2015, 11:50 AM
I guess all you can do is contact customer services and see what they say, going by what others have said, it seems some have had some success with them in the past, if I'm remembering rightly.

Though should they agree and if you are a post charter I would say you are not going to be allowed to remain as such. The 12th of October, that's quite a window.

Philbert
09-09-2015, 12:00 PM
Is there still a phone number? I just see an email form.

Oedo 808
09-09-2015, 01:06 PM
There is a sales number on the NewTek site here (http://www.newtek.com/contact-us.html), maybe you can give that a try and see if anyone can help, they might just direct you to email the LightWave Group, but it's worth a shot I guess.

Philbert
09-09-2015, 01:10 PM
Thank you, I got Deuce over email and he said I could get a refund and then buy it at the sale price but I would indeed lose my charter status. But now the question is what exactly would I be losing? The original deal was that if we got the LW 10 preorder we would get the next 5 updates at a discount, $495. But then recently didn't they reduce the upgrade price for everyone to $495? So what would I lose?

Oedo 808
09-09-2015, 01:43 PM
Please, no, don't do it! :D

Oh man, I don't know if you saw it but there was a lot of talk about this recently, I really don't want it all to kick off again because that means lots of replies that I don't want to have to type out.

It's a crappy situation I know, not only have you missed out on the past deals but now you're missing out on the reduced price one and you don't even know if your post charter deal will be worth anything, you'll just have to gamble because as far as Rob Powers, and some users to be fair, are concerned, this is an ok situation.

Are you sure you need the features in 2015? I mean if you skip this version you'll have to give up your post charter membership, but you save the $395 you were going to spend and if the next four releases go up to $595, well the near $400 you've saved this time around will cover that difference from the $495 post charter price, but.. for those future releases you'll be free to take up any software offers that you've been locked out of (Poser, 3rd Powers etc) or discount like this, and if the price doesn't go up you can join Rob Powers in laughing at all the other suckers still on the post charter membership.

Just something to mull over. If you do think you'll really benefit from 2015, then I guess you'll just have to gamble on whether the post charter membership will be worth anything. Of course upgrades could spiral up even more which means it really will have been something worth keeping, well if you keep it in some ways I hope it does because to have to pass up on these only to find you've saved nothing would be a real kick in the pants.

souzou
09-09-2015, 01:55 PM
LOL I have a feeling this one is going to run and run until we've used up all the charter discounts.

Totally agree with Oedo though.

mav3rick
09-09-2015, 02:54 PM
they should put permanent 395 price tag.. this just looks way too desperate :)

spherical
09-09-2015, 04:29 PM
Heh, now that you mention it, they're looking like Xfrog. Never a time when a 50% - 70% sale isn't running; even though they put deadlines on them. They just start another immediately after the current one times out. Get emails about them constantly.

Nicolas Jordan
09-09-2015, 04:42 PM
I would suspect we will probably see Lightwave 2016 shortly after that promo ends.

hrgiger
09-09-2015, 08:34 PM
Here's my thoughts on the matter, take it for what its worth which is really very little since its just my own personal logic.

LightWave 2015 was very light on the deliverables. I think they reduced the price down to $495 to keep the complaining to a minimum. I think they also took what was to be a free update (11.7) and made it LightWave 2015 to buy more time for a larger update which they needed more time to finish (what will probably be LW2016). If that's the case, its likely they may well raise the price back up to $695 or something in that range. Then I will be glad to still have my $395 pricing.

Personally, I wouldn't put much faith that they will give you a rebate because you just paid $100 more. Its a promo and its to draw more people in who haven't bought already. Someone is always going to be missing the promo by a day or week or month even and feel like they should also benefit. That's just the way it is. And I just noticed that you did get a reply and that you would lose charter status which I also figured might happen in that event they did issue a refund. I wouldn't do it, you might end up paying much more for future upgrades, it just depends on how much you really need that $100 right now I suppose.

Nicolas Jordan
09-09-2015, 09:11 PM
LightWave 2015 was very light on the deliverables. I think they reduced the price down to $495 to keep the complaining to a minimum. I think they also took what was to be a free update (11.7) and made it LightWave 2015 to buy more time for a larger update which they needed more time to finish (what will probably be LW2016). If that's the case, its likely they may well raise the price back up to $695 or something in that range. Then I will be glad to still have my $395 pricing.

.

I agree. There were some nice things in 2015 but it isn't as feature rich as the 11.x series. I also have a feeling a larger more feature rich release could be on the way soon.

Philbert
09-09-2015, 10:02 PM
Well I already bought it and installed so I'm not going to drop it. I like some of the new features too. I guess I'll lose the $100 this time and keep the charter going.

Oedo 808
09-09-2015, 10:45 PM
Here's my thoughts on the matter, take it for what its worth which is really very little since its just my own personal logic.

I know we haven't always agreed on Core, but in this I think you may well be right.

As I've said before Rob Powers might be quite happy with the way things are because he knows how things are going to pan out, but getting users to make decisions while still in the dark makes him look like a bit of a prick, now he might not mind that, the 'larger update' you speak of may be on it's way in which case he will be thinking "**** the existing customer base, I'm aiming for much bigger fish".

I remember reading about promising businesses that came crashing down while pursuing a larger market share at the expense of the existing customer base, I wish I could find the article now... depending on how it's handled, even a wonderful, unified LightWave may still prove to be more of a curse that a blessing if the cost goes up too steeply and the superior attitude persists.


Well I already bought it and installed so I'm not going to drop it. I like some of the new features too. I guess I'll lose the $100 this time and keep the charter going.

Aww, you didn't give up your membership, poor Rob Powers, he's been foiled again. Well, enjoy 2015.

lightscape
09-09-2015, 10:57 PM
they should put permanent 395 price tag.. this just looks way too desperate :)

I agree they should keep the price tag permanent to a fixed number but not because they look desperate.
Its been working for other companies. A sale no matter how little attracts people because the subconscious thinks that you can save some money. Its a marketting technique that's very effective.

probiner
09-10-2015, 03:17 AM
Is it an Australian version? :D

50one
09-10-2015, 04:55 AM
Heh, now that you mention it, they're looking like Xfrog. Never a time when a 50% - 70% sale isn't running; even though they put deadlines on them. They just start another immediately after the current one times out. Get emails about them constantly.

Magix is the same...for the past two years I'm getting emails with "this is your last chance to upgrade with 50% off" or "due to high demand we'e decided to extend the deadline for this deal" :)

Lito
09-10-2015, 07:45 AM
I agree they should keep the price tag permanent to a fixed number but not because they look desperate.
Its been working for other companies. A sale no matter how little attracts people because the subconscious thinks that you can save some money. Its a marketting technique that's very effective.
I think for current customer base, it looks a bit desperate. It might not be the case, but it gives me the impression that there haven't been many people buying the upgrade to LW2015 as they would have liked and really want/need more upgraders. I am kind of expecting NT to go to upgrade tiers like Adobe use to have, if you buy 2015 then you get the lowest price on the 2016 upgrade or you will be penalized by paying a higher price and after so many missed upgrades you have to buy a new license.

souzou
09-10-2015, 08:42 AM
I think it just reflects the reality that once you move to a (perceived) annual release, sales must surely dry up the last 4/5 months of that year. Unless you entice people with a sale (or penalise them with a higher cost to upgrade from 2/3/4/etc versions back), why would people that haven't felt the need to upgrade now not just wait a few months for the next release?

Different industry/product but similar thing happens in the months before a new iphone is due for release.

lightscape
09-10-2015, 08:57 AM
I think for current customer base, it looks a bit desperate. It might not be the case, but it gives me the impression that there haven't been many people buying the upgrade to LW2015 as they would have liked and really want/need more upgraders. I am kind of expecting NT to go to upgrade tiers like Adobe use to have, if you buy 2015 then you get the lowest price on the 2016 upgrade or you will be penalized by paying a higher price and after so many missed upgrades you have to buy a new license.

Or they could be announcing lightwave 2016 soon.

If I was newtek marketting I would offer these promos as low cost solution , model, animate, render for Indie productions
Flexible licensing
Unlimited rendernodes
No limitations

Wade
09-10-2015, 02:05 PM
For 15+ years I have just upgraded as upgrades were released. To date this has worked well as I get all the new features from day one and the free point releases.

spherical
09-10-2015, 04:12 PM
OTOH, some seem to be complaining about the low prices. Be careful what you wish for.

I mean, there are admonitions in many threads that LightWave doesn't have market penetration. Unknown in the industry. "Is that still around?"

What better way to increase the number of seats than to keep the product affordable, in whatever ways possible? It's difficult running a business. Figuring out the marketplace, positioning, perception, awareness, image, pricing, development, production, keeping the lights on. No matter what you do, someone will find something to complain about.

c.1
09-10-2015, 08:49 PM
"No matter what you do, someone will find something to complain about."


Soooo true!

spherical
09-10-2015, 09:30 PM
Yep, even me...

Ernest
09-10-2015, 09:32 PM
I think for current customer base, it looks a bit desperate.

I don't think so. This impression only happens because NT sells directly. I can't remember ever seeing an AD product that was not on sale at Novedge or Motionmedia. But since AD does not sell their own products, they seem to keep the same msrp all year on their site.

shrox
09-10-2015, 09:52 PM
Is it happy happy joy joy stable?

motivalex
09-11-2015, 04:09 AM
Looking at LW release history I would imagine some sort of annoucement is possible by January 2016 and will probably be a bigger update than LW2015.

Lito
09-11-2015, 07:36 AM
OTOH, some seem to be complaining about the low prices. Be careful what you wish for.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the low prices. ;)

IIRC I don't remember ever seeing NT lower the upgrade price in the past. They did bundle stuff with plugins or extras for the same upgrade price though, but usually the upgrade price was fixed once they announced it. I guess that's why it gave me the impression of maybe something is wrong and not many people upgraded to this version. They could just be trying something new, but it was just surprising to see an upgrade price lowered even during a promo.

spherical
09-11-2015, 09:37 AM
Just something to consider how it might look to the individuals in charge, when there's griping about promotions in various configurations. There are a few threads about this and they're generally disgruntled in nature. To cite William Vaughan, whom we all respect, stop griping and get to work creating something with the wonderful tools that have been created for you. And at least a few wonder why no one from NewTek comes in here to talk. :\ I'm here to learn and to share what little knowledge and experience I have that may help others. Reading yet another rant/speculation/umbrage that I didn't see coming gets old. We get it.

The upgrade price has been temporarily lowered without a bundle in the past. That is a Good Thing. Not long ago, we took advantage of one and one before that.

lightscape
09-11-2015, 09:26 PM
THe people who are griping about promotions are the same group of people in the other threads.
They feel entitled and want to get more than the people(non-charter) who are getting the discounted price now for 395.

spherical
09-11-2015, 10:36 PM
I know.

Wickedpup
09-12-2015, 01:14 AM
THe people who are griping about promotions are the same group of people in the other threads.
They feel entitled and want to get more than the people(non-charter) who are getting the discounted price now for 395.

Are you saying charter members should not feel entitled to anything?

Oedo 808
09-12-2015, 02:55 AM
Just something to consider how it might look to the individuals in charge, when there's griping about promotions in various configurations. There are a few threads about this and they're generally disgruntled in nature.

Yes, I can agree to that and am surprised at the rest of your post as it would seem completely at odds with someone who realizes this. What are you suggesting exactly?


To cite William Vaughan, whom we all respect, stop griping and get to work creating something with the wonderful tools that have been created for you.

I didn't make any comment at the time, I guess it's a bit ironic your mentioning it has managed to elicit a response, but I thought his comments were more suited to an epitaph for LightWave, genuinely it seemed like the acceptance phase of someone who has been given the news, "Lightwave is dead and it's not coming back." Not a view I have I might add. Can't help but think... create something wonderful with the tools that have been created for us, by The Foundry.


And at least a few wonder why no one from NewTek comes in here to talk. :\

They do indeed, that is something to ponder, the consequence for going dark at a time when big questions loom large however should be no surprise and are a reason to join in and nothing close to approaching an excuse to stay away. Really don't feel the need to get this off my chest but I can't read silliness about the reasons for them not engaging as some might want.


I'm here to learn and to share what little knowledge and experience I have that may help others. Reading yet another rant/speculation/umbrage that I didn't see coming gets old. We get it.

Yeah I agree, I could do without people posting unfair views or with bizarre hypocrisy. The most recent instance was not out of the blue or continuation but because someone experienced exactly the issue that exists and one that could be solved with a simple policy change. It's a shame someone had to encounter just the quandary that was talked about to spoil your feel-good forum browsing, but I'm glad that you're all right, Jack. In fact in case anyone missed it, I'm all right too.


The upgrade price has been temporarily lowered without a bundle in the past. That is a Good Thing. Not long ago, we took advantage of one and one before that.

I got some mushy peas and chips last night, the chips are great value, a good size and generous portions, though last time they forgot the mushy peas and I wasn't happy despite the good value they provide, you know why? It's because one thing has nothing to do with the other.

I have to say I've had enough of the topic and would only broach it when someone invites a response, either by someone newly encountering an issue or by someone wishing to exercise their right to comment on it. I was going to let it pass but you managed to get someone else posting their usual brand of drivel, for someone who is tired of the issue, you're doing well in letting it rest.



Are you saying charter members should not feel entitled to anything?

Given what it was billed as you'd think even that wouldn't be an unreasonable ask, but even now no one has asked for what the issue is being misrepresented as. The idiots comment in the other thread was seriously miss-aimed because we really do have some special people around here. A user wasn't looking to debate but they weren't even sure if their membership would work against them, a situation that shouldn't exist and could be easily remedied, but like I said, if people can make things worse for others it makes them feel better about themselves, there's a lot of nasty people about in the world, it's no surprise there are a few here.

lightscape
09-12-2015, 09:37 PM
Are you saying charter members should not feel entitled to anything?

They're entitled to the original deal which was 5 fixed upgrade pricing.
To cry over recent promotions and saying they should get more because now everybody is paying the same upgrade price and a bonus plugin, is just low eq stuff. They didn't go through the marshmallow test? :D

Wickedpup
09-13-2015, 12:07 AM
They're entitled to the original deal which was 5 fixed upgrade pricing.
To cry over recent promotions and saying they should get more because now everybody is paying the same upgrade price and a bonus plugin, is just low eq stuff. They didn't go through the marshmallow test? :D
Well, I have already upgraded so it does not affect me much. But the upgrade pricing was a consequence of NT f###ing up and then having to own up to it. Happens in most parts of life. However I can think of company or two that would offer compensation in a similar situation where they had to lower prices. NT not doing do it just adds to my perception of how they treat loyal customers. Makes me wonder if this just isn`t some ploy to get more people to drop the charter pricing
And I see nothing wrong with people asking for a better deal, they always do. That you don't agree probably have more to do with you not receiving the short end of the stick. :hey:

spherical
09-13-2015, 01:43 AM
---

Hehhehhehheh. You know, I've liked some of your stuff. Not biting, however. :D

lightscape
09-13-2015, 05:57 AM
Well, However I can think of company or two that would offer compensation in a similar situation where they had to lower prices. NT not doing do it just adds to my perception of how they treat loyal customers.

Compensation? Even given the 5 fixed upgrade, need to be compensated after it happened years already? Lol.
Which companies? AD, Adobe, no way. Maxon, goodluck! Luxology, nope. Every modo release is a bugfest and it took them so long and its not even there yet. Compensate me. :D
Every company has f'd up.
pooch go fetch you know what, that came from you know where. :D

Wickedpup
09-13-2015, 10:15 AM
The fixed price can only be considered a benefit as long as the upgrade price is higher. In this case it isnīt. I thought that much was obvious, but you clearly have to be spoonfed.....

bbuxton
09-13-2015, 11:00 AM
Irritating and antagonising a loyal customer base is never a good move but this is precisely what LW3D have done. For a long time I have used LW and C4D side by side but I think for now I hold off on further LW upgrades and break my post charter pricing. If LW3D can't handle a simple thing like this, my confidence in their handling of Lightwave's future development is in crisis.

lightscape
09-13-2015, 07:47 PM
The fixed price can only be considered a benefit as long as the upgrade price is higher. In this case it isnīt. I thought that much was obvious, but you clearly have to be spoonfed.....

I think the only dogs who needs spoonfeeding are the overly greedy ones.
Holding a company/person accountable, after a deal has been made, and after how many years passed already, is such a loser mentallity.

Oedo 808
09-13-2015, 08:47 PM
Hehhehhehheh. You know, I've liked some of your stuff. Not biting, however. :D

Ha, don't even try and blame this one on me, you lit the touch paper. ;D

The only other time I do this much talking is about Core and those posts I can't imagine would have been too unwelcome by the powers that be (:D), because it was generally to express the feeling that things had to go roughly the way they are going anyway. Not that it's any guarantee but even if I might think 2015 was lacklustre it doesn't phase me, in some ways it could do quite the opposite.

It might not be immediately apparent but some of my wise cracks about Modeller are three things, a parting shot at the tenure which saw precious little tool development despite third parties showing that there was plenty that could be achieved, a shot at people who seem to think that this was a good approach and then just generally making some noise because people seem to think that LightWave should focus on Layout because that's were it's strength lies and if anyone knows LightWave, that's what people know it for, which means that Modeler's dereliction would become a self-fulfilling prophecy.


I think the only dogs who needs spoonfeeding are the overly greedy ones.
Holding a company/person accountable, after a deal has been made, and after how many years passed already, is such a loser mentallity.

Take a good look, Rob, because if this is what constitutes the reasoning behind the way things are and is fair argument for it, it may as well have come straight from your lips. (Just to avoid confusion, it is a quote from lightscape not Rob Powers, though it may well be his thoughts on the matter)

lightscape
09-13-2015, 10:53 PM
That wasn't directed at you but at the dog avatar but if the shoe fits...

Too greedy or begging for scraps. Both meh....
Get over it, get over core, get over your exes. :D

Wickedpup
09-14-2015, 05:14 AM
Get over it, get over core, get over your exes. :D
Only if you get over yourself.... :dance:

lightscape
09-14-2015, 06:30 PM
Only if you get over yourself.... :dance:

Not until you stop feeling overly entitled.
Please beg and grovel some more.
Lets not pay for upgrades and get everything free. :D