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pdrake
08-31-2015, 03:57 PM
any tips on a process to model something very similar to this. it has to spiral down and inside. i don't think clone has the power for that.

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Axis3d
08-31-2015, 05:04 PM
You could model the metal spiral shape that holds the glass hanging bits. Then use instancing to place the single, modeled glass-beaded shapes along points on the curved metal.

pdrake
08-31-2015, 05:06 PM
that would work for that particular lamp, but the one i need (it's an existing piece i need to put in a rendering) has all the hanging crystals starting from the top. the metal doesn't descend like that one.

spherical
08-31-2015, 05:36 PM
So each strand is a different length?
Are the lengths spiraled like the example or in stepped tiers of diminishing diameter and increasing length?

pdrake
08-31-2015, 05:42 PM
here's an actual photo.

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MSherak
08-31-2015, 05:49 PM
any tips on a process to model something very similar to this. it has to spiral down and inside. i don't think clone has the power for that.

129550

Load the model attached and follow along.

1) select layer 2 and bring up the Clone tool. type:

600
0
-20 cm
0
99.8
100
99.8
6
0
0
0
0
0

2) Now go to point mode. Bring up statistics panel and select curve1. Make selection into a curve with the Make Open Curve tool. Select curve2 and repeat the tool.
3) Now select layer 1 and place layer 2 in the background. Select the Rail polygon and run the Rail Extrude tool. type:

Length
Automatic
2
Oriented
(off) scale
(off) align

4) Now select Verts polygon and run Rail Extrude again. Type:

Knots
Uniform
5
2
Oriented
(off) scale
(off) align

5) select the Verts polyons and run the Clone tool. Type

5
0
0
0
100
100
100
60
0
0
0
0
0

Now you have 90% of the model in a couple steps. Study the basic model for the setup. Just thought it would be fun to show how a complex model can be simple to build.

spherical
08-31-2015, 06:43 PM
Load the model attached and follow along.

Except he said that the metal support is not a helix. All of the spiral happens with the individual strands becoming longer from the one common height attachment plane.

jeric_synergy
08-31-2015, 09:00 PM
I'm trying to figure out what secondary rails would make a helix clone the crystals with an ever increasing Y scale:

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++++++++
BTW, this is EXACTLY the situation where I'd like to be able to SELECT EXPAND by points on a Curve, because then I could make a gradated wmap on the spiral and pull it down in a gradated way using Falloff.

pdrake
08-31-2015, 10:04 PM
it's perplexing. i could do the other way in a few minutes. export a spiral out of illustrator with a set number of vertices, import to lw, stretch out points, clone by point.

this seems like a script could be written built around that really useful seashell tool.

jeric_synergy
08-31-2015, 10:13 PM
I gave up on Multiple Rail Clone-- too unpredictable.

If you could tag the end of the crystals, you could just clone on a helix and then pull one end up to the ceiling.

pdrake
08-31-2015, 10:31 PM
i'm going to just do it the dumb way and then cut it off at the top after i pass that point with a few iterations. it'll be a little uneven, but it's due tomorrow.

JoePoe
09-01-2015, 08:17 AM
++++++++
BTW, this is EXACTLY the situation where I'd like to be able to SELECT EXPAND by points on a Curve, because then I could make a gradated wmap on the spiral and pull it down in a gradated way using Falloff.

FAIAP...You CAN do both of these.
1) Step select edge sections instead (I guess technically you will have one extra point).
Or
2) convert to 2pt poly chain and you can step select/create gradated weight m all in one shot...... WeightOutward (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/weight-outward/).

jeric_synergy
09-01-2015, 08:27 AM
FAIAP...You CAN do both of these.
1) Step select edge sections instead (I guess technically you will have one extra point).
CRAP, I musta missed that workaround in the previous thread. Thanks. Good one.

JoePoe
09-01-2015, 09:16 AM
:thumbsup::hey:

.... back to the OP. Yeah, probably too late at this point..... but for future reference.

Double Rail Clone will work fine for this.

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jeric_synergy
09-01-2015, 09:21 AM
You tease.

Can we see the two spirals? What was your procedure for getting the vertical one distributed?

I'm still taking credit for thinking of Multiple Rail Clone, even if I don't know how to use it!!!!eleven! ;D:foreheads:bangwall:

++++++++++++
You do have to convert to a polychain to use WeightOutward, right?

pdrake
09-01-2015, 10:10 AM
yeah, tease, double rail clone?

isn't there a helix tool somewhere?

jeric_synergy
09-01-2015, 10:23 AM
yeah, tease, double rail clone?
isn't there a helix tool somewhere?
the "Helix2" tool is actually a cloning tool, it just happens to create and NOT delete, thank Buddha, a useful spiral. It'll be on the next empty layer.

I'm not sure if anybody has a better way to make spirals/helixes (is there a difference???) in LW. --The devs are missing out on a "FREE" tool there if you ask me: the code is already pretty done.

Well, except this:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?147695-Weight-Map-Falloff-Creating-a-spiral

++++++++++
After I gave up above, I went to look at the available videos on the web, and they were all pretty sucky. Some had a lot of "errrrrs" and "ummmmmmmsssssss" in them, which I detest. (Vid makers: Just SHUT UP, don't say "ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm." FFS.)

JoePoe
09-01-2015, 10:45 AM
Shaping up to be a bit of a crazy day...

This for now.... 129557

Yeah, I used WeightOutward (yes toggle to 2pt poly chain).
I guess the only "tricky" part, is that after creating the spiral the points are stretched out along the length. I did a quick rail extrude of a box with Uniform setting to get evenly spaced points. Used an edge loop off of that to create an Open Curve. That's what you see here.
(but I really don't think all that is necessary. Rail clone has "auto" vs. uniform too.... it just wasn't behaving for some reason).

Of course you can use the Helix tool. In that case you would copy it and squash it flat to be the top spiral.

In the end it's the same thing tho..... two rails for a "double" rail clone. (not a different tool.... Rail Clone/Extrude will recognize the two curves and change the interface accordingly.)

Here is the result from using Helix.....

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Gotta run.
If you need more info, ask.... I'll be back later. :thumbsup:

MSherak
09-01-2015, 10:48 AM
here's an actual photo.

129551


Except he said that the metal support is not a helix. All of the spiral happens with the individual strands becoming longer from the one common height attachment plane.

Even easier. Load the model again from my previous post.

1) Repeat step 1 above.
2) Repeat step 2 but only do curve1.
3) Copy the curve to a new layer and past it. Hit the Set Value command and place along Y 0. Paste the curve again.
4) Select the curve spiraling down and place layer 2 in the background. Line up the top of the curve to the bottom of the square tube.
5) Swap foreground and background layers and select the square tube. Run the Rail Clone tool and type:

Length
Uniform
250
2
(off) oriented
(off) scaling
(off) align

Now you have one that looks like the 2nd image show.

jeric_synergy
09-01-2015, 10:51 AM
Yeah, I used WeightOutward (yes toggle to 2pt poly chain).

Of course you can use the Helix tool. In that case you would copy it and squash it flat to be the top spiral.

?? So , you didn't use the Helix tool originally??

JoePoe
09-01-2015, 02:53 PM
Now that I have two seconds to actually think about this. It is much easier, imho, to do the helix first.
That way you don't have to mess with weights at all.

AND Helix tool is nice 'cuz it gives evenly distributed points.

Jeric.... I just made my own helix by rotating a straight line (with a bunch of segments) around origin.
Just like a spring, but with a little tilt to start and using a linear falloff curve.

pdrake
09-01-2015, 04:15 PM
that's what i was going to do with the lathe tool. i kind of just banged it out rough since the client will be here in an hour and it takes forever to render thousands of highly refractive and reflective crystals.