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View Full Version : How would YOU model from a single 3/4 view image



fineartist
08-23-2015, 01:18 PM
Hi gang,

Got a stumper... You have a image you have to model from and it's only a 3/4 view. There is no additional images to use as reference, what way would you go? I have been trying different techniques, but they are either VERY slow or just plain don't work. I thought I would throw it your way and see what you would do.

At our work, we constantly get just a single sketch to work from from other companies that have the attitude "it should be easy, we can't waste our time doing turn arounds, you figure it out, etc..."

I will post one of my own creations that I want to model on my own just to give you a idea what I deal with. My Lil Bit character I designed, I could make the sides and back, but I want to treat her just like the other art I get to test out theories.

So, again I ask, how would you approach this?

Thanks

Jim

129429129429129430

ernpchan
08-23-2015, 01:27 PM
I would sketch out the front and profile views. The work you put in there will pay off when you start modeling.

fineartist
08-23-2015, 01:32 PM
Thanks ernpchan,

The problem is, I am the only one that can visualize the other views that we would need, so in essence, I would be the one stuck with having to draw all the other model angles for everyone on top of my own tasks, it really isn't feasible. Hopefully there is a way to at least get a 3d model done to the point that I could finish off what someone else roughed in if need be.

Definitely open to suggestions

ernpchan
08-23-2015, 02:19 PM
At the places I've worked designers have to provide orthograpchic views. That being said, I've worked off of 3/4 only when I knew the production department was swamped. 2d shows would often do a design in 3/4 and then just provide that instead of a full model sheet.

I know there are programs that can build geometry from photos. You could try that. Not sure how they'll do with a character though.

When I only have a 3/4 view I just do what I can and just let the modeling process play out to figure out what the model should look like.

spherical
08-23-2015, 04:50 PM
have the attitude "it should be easy,..."

Says the person not having one clue about how to actually do it. It should also be "easy" for them to give you reference that you can actually work from. In fact, it should be required if they want to save money. They're the ones who know the character most intimately. You're guessing. You are tasked with making 3D virtual characters from one 2D sketch. A LOT of extrapolation will be required in order to fill out those other sides to their satisfaction. That means that it is more time going through trial and error approvals that are essentially unnecessary; if they provide quality information in the first place. Situations like this are ripe for difficulty from the client.

As Ern said, if you can't or are unwilling to get them to do the above, the best would be to do your own sketches. It is feasible when you consider that rough sketches will save you tons of modeling time that gets rejected. Far less work lost to toss a sketch that isn't quite right, than to toss a model that you have far more hours in. Having that 2D baseline of data that looks good from at least three angles, you can then fill in the blanks much more efficiently. They will help you to stay on track as you move into the 3rd dimension.

I came from a 2D world into 3D. I've done similar as you are attempting many times. I developed my own perspective translation system to create accurate architectural illustrations from a single floor plan. I could pick the point of view and choose the "lens" and out would come a point cloud of sorts that I could use to create the objects in the field of view. Took intense concentration and it all had to be done in one sitting; no matter how long that may have been, as it all had to be kept organized in my head. This was before there were 3D applications having cameras that could render a model.

There is no shortcut, aside from the applications mentioned above that construct meshes from photographs.... a LOT of photographs. You have one. It's all up to you to provide the rest or obtain them from someone in the know... and in control of approval.

Not what you wanted to hear, I know. But, clients need to recognize that they help themselves by helping their contractors. Otherwise, they're just lazy; not sowing a respectable amount of seed information from which to reap a quality result.

I know it's difficult sometimes, but artists need to respect themselves first. Be firm on your requirements before accepting a commission. Get what you need, so you can know that you will be able to do a good job, on time, within budget. Anything that gets in the way of those puts you at risk, because they will never own up to having any part of a failure. If you don't respect yourself, few others will; especially clients.

bobakabob
08-24-2015, 11:08 AM
Excellent advice there, Spherical.

spherical
08-24-2015, 02:38 PM
Thanks, Bob. I've been mentoring artists for some time; at least exposing them to the realities of the business world, as it relates to the business of art. Most art schools do not do more than touch on this aspect of being an artist. They train in art and then the student is thrust out into the wolf pack, leads with their face and is gobbled up; not knowing how to negotiate, what their rights are or how ruthless and unfair things can be.

More and more, the clients cry "poor", play the ol' "non-profit" card (as if they don't make any money--it's a tax position, nothing more), offer "exposure" in return for work done for little or nothing ("someone else" will pay big bucks to you down the road--just not us), provide (as in the case of the OP) insufficient data from which to work, demand stupidly short deadlines (because they didn't get things ready in time to hand off), don't provide the materials required in a timely manner to even start the work and then continue making changes, but not push the deadline out one bit. The list goes on...

Artists are doing more and more, with less and less. Pretty soon, they'll be doing everything with nothing. (The OP is pretty close to this)

Yes, it's good business to get the best deal. That goes for the artist, as well. Even more so, as their business budget us usually far smaller and more fragile. One bad hit and you're reeling for months, because there isn't a buffer to absorb the give and take. Sometimes, you can't recover.

All too often, artists give their work away for free in the hopes that they'll cash in one day. In rare instances that pans out for the individual but all that really does is weaken the overall market. Clients have come to expect to pay pennies for what they used to pay hundreds. Their attitude is: "You do art for fun, don't you?" And then devalue the work on that basis, "because it isn't actual work". All the while knowing that they need art in its many forms to further their business. It's a double standard and they're cashing in.

It takes strong conviction to stand up to that and I give high praise to those who do. We are all better for the efforts of each and every one who doesn't knuckle under and accept a bad deal; in whatever form.

It all boils down to:
Patient: "Doc, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor: "Don't do that."

<soapbox mode off>

fineartist
08-24-2015, 08:09 PM
I totally know what you speak spherical, I had a chew fest with who we are doing work with today, it got pretty heated. It comes down to this, I think their group can do a pretty drawing, but don't understand 3d one bit. Their team leader told me she doesn't understand how this can be soooo difficult, they are the ones who have it hard, they have to come up with a drawing from scratch, where we have their drawing to work from.

I swear, if I could post some of the crap they have given as a example, I think everyone would die laughing. Or want to attack idiots like her with a torch and noose.

I do think though, I may have stumbled across a weird technique, at least I haven't seen anyone use it before. I hope to have some time to try it out this week, if it works, I'll let everyone see what I did. But in the meantime, I'm still open to ideas if anyone has one.

ernpchan
08-24-2015, 09:19 PM
I totally know what you speak spherical, I had a chew fest with who we are doing work with today, it got pretty heated. It comes down to this, I think their group can do a pretty drawing, but don't understand 3d one bit. Their team leader told me she doesn't understand how this can be soooo difficult, they are the ones who have it hard, they have to come up with a drawing from scratch, where we have their drawing to work from.


Eeesh. Next they're gonna say, "You're doing what I'm saying but not what I want." I didn't make this one up, it was used on a coworker.

Good luck. Definitely interested in what you came up with.

spherical
08-24-2015, 11:23 PM
I think their group can do a pretty drawing, but don't understand 3d one bit.

Then they should recognize that and listen to the person they are hiring and supply what is needed according to their expertise. Duh. But, nooooooo.


Their team leader told me she doesn't understand how this can be soooo difficult,

Exactly. They have zero clue about what is really involved, yet lord over everyone with "absolute knowledge" covering complete ignorance and then tell you "how things are".


they are the ones who have it hard, they have to come up with a drawing from scratch, where we have their drawing to work from.

Poor babies... Yes, coming up with an original idea is difficult. But, you're coming up with all of the rest of it from scratch.

Great! I'll do a flat poly with your drawing mapped upon it. Maybe do a 2.5D version. Done! Oh, want the other sides and the back? Gee, I have no drawing to work from.... Give me at least YOUR idea of what it should look like. "Should be easy, right?"
OR
PAY ME A LOT TO DO YOUR JOB AND MINE.

Time is money. They don't want to invest any of theirs to get you a good start that has a better chance of being successful; then they had better be prepared to pay the freight for you to fill in all of the blizzard of blanks that they left hanging up to mere conjecture, because it's "too hard".

OTOH, if they are willing to give you creative freedom to take their two-dimensional sketch and run with it--and not nitpick you on every little detail; that is another kettle of fish and could lead to a good thing.

The usual outcome with clients like this is that the artist gets labelled: "Hard to work with". They sluff the blame off on you. Your best avenue; unless you feel that you can bring them around over time, is to do the job and then Find a Better Client. Let someone else take their guff and clueless all-knowing disrespect. They'll run through artists like water until they find one who will do everything for nothing; and they'll get what they pay for.

Only you can determine how valuable the commission is and if it is worth the hassle.

Sorry you're having this trouble. Been there, so I know. We developed an axiom that we remind ourselves of every once in a great while:

"Do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, to get this problem person out of your life."
It'd be great to qualify them before they enter your life, but have yet to find a way.

We have many great clients and they are Gold. I'll do far more work than necessary for them because they have a clue, listen, show deep respect and offer a fair price. THAT is good business in a nutshell, but try to teach that to a manager who thinks they have a "better idea", can "get it for less" and anyone who does otherwise is a chump.

fineartist
08-29-2015, 12:46 AM
Well, I took care of the situation... I quit!

Told them to bite me when they did a pout face and said, "poor baby, life is so hard you have to have someone else do your work to make your life easier". Laughed my arse off when they came running out to the parking lot and begged me not to quit. I gunned the gas and I guess you could say they got a face full of dirt as I sped away. Best part, turned on the radio when 2 of the team leaders got to my window , and Twisted Sisters "we're not gonna take it" was playing. I cranked it.

Life is too short to deal with idiots, I'm going on my own.

JonW
08-29-2015, 02:31 AM
Quite often get this from architects who say can you use this chair and supply one 3/4 low res image.

I project the image on to a box trying to get the distance and angle correct (sometimes I get too fussy).

Then render front and side views to use in the background in Modeler to then build actual chair, plus a bit of guessing so it looks ok.

129527
129528

spherical
08-29-2015, 10:23 AM
Well, I took care of the situation... I quit!

Told them to bite me when they did a pout face and said, "poor baby, life is so hard you have to have someone else do your work to make your life easier".

Rude doesn't even scratch the surface. Little did they realize, however, they were talking about themselves.


Laughed my arse off when they came running out to the parking lot and begged me not to quit. I gunned the gas and I guess you could say they got a face full of dirt as I sped away. Best part, turned on the radio when 2 of the team leaders got to my window , and Twisted Sisters "we're not gonna take it" was playing. I cranked it.

Life is too short to deal with idiots, I'm going on my own.

Changed their tune pretty quickly when they learned you weren't bluffing. Good for you! I bet things feel a tad different today; in a good way that you haven't experienced for a while. There'll be tough days but the Good Ones are well worth it. You made MY day. :)

jeric_synergy
08-29-2015, 12:37 PM
Well, I took care of the situation... I quit!

Told them to bite me when they did a pout face and said, "poor baby, life is so hard you have to have someone else do your work to make your life easier". Laughed my arse off when they came running out to the parking lot and begged me not to quit. I gunned the gas and I guess you could say they got a face full of dirt as I sped away. Best part, turned on the radio when 2 of the team leaders got to my window , and Twisted Sisters "we're not gonna take it" was playing. I cranked it.

Life is too short to deal with idiots, I'm going on my own.

Best possible outcome. The Twisted Sister was just a cherry on top. :thumbsup:

Were you exaggerating that they MOCKED you to your face when you told them what you need to do your job? F*!k that noise. Was this a paying gig???

fineartist
09-07-2015, 12:22 PM
Not exaggerating at all. It was a paying gig, but not the only job I have. I wanted to make additional income to help pay my daughters college education off, so this was my side job, not the main one. Got 2 calls from them after I left, first one was how I would never get my job back from them for responding to them that way (wtf), then got a call just the other day saying if I would come in to talk, we could resolve things. I knew they would be desperate because I am the only one that knows the stuff they need done. They shot themselves in the foot. I am now enjoying working on my own stuff again. May just go onto Itunes and get me the Twisted Sister cd to listen to while I work LOL

fineartist
09-07-2015, 12:27 PM
Here is my quick thing I figured out that kind of works, not perfect but it gets pretty close.... I took the side photo of my Lilbit to test on in corel (you could use illustrator too) I had her digitized but 1) have the image digitized cleanly. 2) mirror a copy of each piece as a group (so it looks like a mirrored image 3) do a shape blend of 1 iteration to each corresponding piece. 4) start modeling... Like I said, it won't be perfect, but surprize surprize, it does kind of work! Let me know if you try it and if it works for you

Thanks for the moral support friends, love my Lightwavers!

jeric_synergy
09-07-2015, 12:41 PM
Stay strong. Unless you can bid them up to a seriously KAH-RAYZY rate, with you holding the whip hand. (Wish I had a scary font for that.)

R U in a region with limited vendors? (Although, frankly, that sounds like the kinda B.S. Microsofties pull.)

fineartist
09-07-2015, 03:56 PM
Nah, don't even want to talk to them anymore. They treated other people badly before, seen a couple of incidents that weren't too pretty, but they are adults, they could handle it. I'll just say it's in the Michigan region. There are a couple good people there too that are afraid to say anything because it's their only job, so I don't want to say anything specific that could destroy the company. They are doing a good job of that on their own.