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KillMe
12-05-2003, 06:56 PM
i got a newsletter from newtek europe today saying "PREORDER" lightwave 8 before december 31st and get blah blah balh

that would seem to suggest it wont be shipping byt the 32st - maybe thats jsut in europe though =(

Librarian
12-05-2003, 08:07 PM
Maybe that doesn`t refer to the electronic download, just means that the cds will not ship before 2004 ?

Beamtracer
12-05-2003, 08:29 PM
Newtek will want to release LW8 as soon as they can. The commercial and competitive pressures on them must be enormous.

If, for whatever reason they need a bit more time to make sure everything is working properly, then we should accept that gracefully.

It's a good company that would wait to make sure everything is of a high standard, rather than to release too early and not care what the product is like.

siproductions
12-05-2003, 09:44 PM
I agree Beamtracer.

jr_sunshine
12-05-2003, 10:07 PM
I've posted this before, but if they are still in the "getting it right" phase at this late point in the year.... we better prepare ourselves for a March or April 2004 release. At this point, they should just be putting the window dressing on the download and figuring out how to accomodate the network traffic.

I for one will be a bit upset if it slips until 2004. I purchased my upgrade in June. I realize those of us who got in early received DFX+, but NewTek has had our $$$ since the middle of 2003.

Anyway, I want them to get it right too... but they have said on numerous occasions it will be 2003. I for one would rather they just come out and say it will not be this year if indeed they are still "getting it right".

Oh well.... sigh. :confused:

badllarma
12-05-2003, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Newtek will want to release LW8 as soon as they can. The commercial and competitive pressures on them must be enormous.

If, for whatever reason they need a bit more time to make sure everything is working properly, then we should accept that gracefully.

It's a good company that would wait to make sure everything is of a high standard, rather than to release too early and not care what the product is like.

Well said that man :)

Wade
12-05-2003, 11:53 PM
I look forward to Eight yet 7.5c is working well for me. I will sit tight if you work to get it right so then I can work with all the might of 8 when it comes into view from being out just out of site.



:eek: sorry

private
12-05-2003, 11:59 PM
If the development continues past December 31st, I would expect them to come out and say, "We're sorry, and it's almost done. It will be out on XXX" etc. However, I think it's going to be done by the end of December. They have stated in the past it's going to be in Q4, and it now represents a new start for Lightwave.

If it does ship this December, it better not be another 7.5b fiasco though. If it is, there are going to be a lot of unhappy people and their credibility will take a huge blow. Heck, neither 7.5b or 7.5c are positive. I really think there should have been a 7.5d to fix the fixes.

Librarian
12-06-2003, 12:52 AM
They should better release an adequate version before 2004. Many users are tired of delaying tactics and half-assed releases and switch. That`s competition.
It`s not my perception, I can wait. Nevertheless Newtek, take care of it ;)

Phil
12-06-2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by private
Heck, neither 7.5b or 7.5c are positive. I really think there should have been a 7.5d to fix the fixes.

I can only agree with this sentiment. There are a bunch of issues still in 7.5c in relation to multithreading and the core features of Layout. This is not plugin related, but we've seen a large number of scenes where multithreading in conjunction with volumetrics, fog and lens flares have rendered every rendered frame unusable as flares are fractured between thread segments.

In addition, we've seen problems with PFX where deleting objects from the scene editor has meant that FX_Link has lots its reference to the particle object and started looking at a completely unrelated object.

The LScript debacle needs urgent attention as well so that wholesale breakages between point-updates of LW don't happen. The scripts have version numbers in them - they should actually be used for more than just throwing an error - run them in legacy mode for at least one point revision.

All of these have been reported to NT with supporting files; whilst we have heard back from Deuce about them, I am currently under the impression that they will only be resolved in 8.0 - hardly good news midway through a project. I'm also reluctant to pick up any .0 release for production work these days for fear of the problems that might ensue.

Dillon
12-06-2003, 11:34 AM
I'm willing to bet that if 8 isn't officially released before year end, that it will be released in BetaForce form - anyone who wants to help beta test it, can order it.

It's a major upgrade, many new additions, and many new bugs to squash.

Cheers


Dillon

papou
12-06-2003, 11:36 AM
and i'm still waiting a real features list and corrected bugs list of 7.5x...

blabberlicious
12-06-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by papou
and i'm still waiting a real features list and corrected bugs list of 7.5x...


Well said my man

I don't know where to being on the serious bugs that linger in my favourite app:

HUB (don't get me started), VIPER - totally Flakey (why do you have to pay Ģ500 for Worley to make it work properly?).

Handling and updating of images?

I'm a Mac user, and I've watched the months go by as serious flaws in 7.5c are posted with little official response, apart from people posting workarounds and the ususal 'live with it' mantras.

When you've toiled away on projects as long and complex as we have this year, that lack of response really undermined our confidence in the App in general.


Many aspects of woring with complex rigs & scenes in LW can be nerve-wracking enough without having to contend with LW's numerous unexplained lock ups and bombing out.

Having one undo in Layout feels like undeserved pusnishment!

The way NT whipped up the masses with the pre-release hype, and then appear(ed) to be backing out of their commitment seems strange (to put it kindly).

My biggest concern is that they'll not address so much of what was buggy about 7.5.

Sorry if this has all been said before.

Compare this to Maxon, from whom I recently purchased Bodypaint 2 to use with LW


When I encountered a serious bug in the Lightwave/Bodypaint intergration, they were back to me in a shot.

I got immediate feedback, and apology (gasp!), and a free PC license to get me through the project I was on.

I just got the patch emailed to me to direct- and now I'm flying!

Way to go!

i will say that one thing LW has got going for it are huge and varied community of dedicated (and patient) users.

Newtek:
DONT GIVE US AN ADVENT CALENDER, AND THEN ASK US TO GLUE THE WINDOWS BACK SHUT!

That's just plain cruel!

Joy Ho HO & Joy to the world

p.s I'm hope I'm forced to eat my words -prefereably no later that next friday :)

archiea
12-06-2003, 03:04 PM
well put steve....

My fear has always been the resource issue as Nt is a small company....

Zach
12-06-2003, 03:08 PM
I can wait for 8 now that I broke down and got ACS4.
It looks like ACS4 is bundled in 8 now though. If you look at the screenshots, many of the rigs and naming conventions look identical. Not saying that Proton isn't using ACS4 for creating his character rigs still, but it seems like he would be taking advantage of the right-click ik/fk rigging system supposedly in the new LW.

Nonetheless. I've been waiting for 8 just for the character rigging, and now, i just want to get a good return on ACS4 before 8 is released.

8's going to be a rockin app, and I can't wait for its release, bugs or not. If you've used other apps, you know you'll have to find work arounds. That is the nature of software and users pushing its limits. Sure it'd be nice to have a bug free release, but you're on crack if you think that is going to happen.

Photoshop 7: don't press esc to get out of the type tool more than a couple times within the session, or it will freeze and you'll have to restart.

Maya: Will unexpectedly quit any ole time.
Max: Same as Maya
Premiere: Same thing
Final Cut, Dreamweaver, Flash, LIGHTWAVE!

It's just something we deal with (not without a lot of swearing.)

riki
12-06-2003, 08:39 PM
mmmm no hurry I can wait, I know it will be here soon enough.

hrgiger
12-06-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Zach
I can wait for 8 now that I broke down and got ACS4.
It looks like ACS4 is bundled in 8 now though.

I don't believe that ACS4 is bundled with Lightwave 8.

dark_lotus
12-06-2003, 10:20 PM
I just hope they hurry up and release an update to make it work with Panther.

It is incredibly frustrating having to switch between the 2.

Zach
12-06-2003, 11:28 PM
I don't believe that ACS4 is bundled with Lightwave 8.

I know, I know.
I'm just saying that there are odd similarities, and it would seem like Proton would be using the LW character stuff to show a screen shot of 8 instead of ACS4.

I mean look at the naming conventions between the two screenshots here, as well as the rigging style and color of the custom objects.
ACS4 in LightWave 7.5c:
http://www.zachtv.com/GFL/SCOOTERBOY.gif

Proton's ScreenShot of 8:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=104882

At least we know ACS4 works in 8!

DaveW
12-06-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
I've posted this before, but if they are still in the "getting it right" phase at this late point in the year.... we better prepare ourselves for a March or April 2004 release. At this point, they should just be putting the window dressing on the download and figuring out how to accomodate the network traffic.


Yes, because making an installer and putting it on an ftp server is an arduous process that takes weeks :rolleyes:

Seriously, what the hell is "window dressing" for the installer? What does NewTek need to do to their servers that they haven't needed to do in the past? If the deadline is Dec. 31, they still have plenty of time to squash bugs and do testing. They don't need to stop all coding 3 weeks before release just to make an installer.

hrgiger
12-07-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Zach
I know, I know.
I'm just saying that there are odd similarities, and it would seem like Proton would be using the LW character stuff to show a screen shot of 8 instead of ACS4.




Well, we all know that Proton loves ACS4.

Zach
12-07-2003, 02:15 AM
It's a pretty killer plug. Way better than the days it took me to figure out how to rig a character for sure.

jr_sunshine
12-07-2003, 03:36 PM
Seriously, what the hell is "window dressing" for the installer? What does NewTek need to do to their servers that they haven't needed to do in the past? If the deadline is Dec. 31, they still have plenty of time to squash bugs and do testing. They don't need to stop all coding 3 weeks before release just to make an installer.

I disagree completely. They should have stopped coding before we even hit December. I don't know about you but I DO NOT want software with new features that have been tested just 3 weeks prior to release. Recipe for disaster.

Zach
12-07-2003, 04:45 PM
I don't doubt that they will be nailing it up till the last minute.
I'm sure they've already shut the door on adding new features. They are probably just fixing what is already set in stone, and I bet they'll release a free 8.0x update(not upgrade) with the stuff they wanted to put in but just couldn't do it in time.

well, whatever. LightWave rocks the balls off of three dee

sketchyjay
12-07-2003, 07:17 PM
Have any of us worked in an office where they said "hey we finished 4 hours early lets knock off for a beer?" I've worked on presentations with 3d flash and video FX and be burning the DVD as clients are walking in the door. I've had to pull a whole 3D segment out my ear on a friday to render over the weekend before showing it on a monday. I'm sure these guys will be running full speed until it's out the door then go get a cold one before gearing up for the next release.

I hope it is this year but if not I'll wait. As long as I don't have to pay again until they are ready for version 9 then they can take a few months longer to get it right.

Jay

DaveW
12-07-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by jr_sunshine
I disagree completely. They should have stopped coding before we even hit December. I don't know about you but I DO NOT want software with new features that have been tested just 3 weeks prior to release. Recipe for disaster.

Coding doesn't mean adding new features. I have worked on software development in the past, and on almost every single project we worked to the very last minute with the testing and bug fixing. That requires coding to fix the bugs. Then you test the new version to make sure you didn't break something else when you fixed the bugs. If they had completely stopped all coding, then it should be released already. Making an installer is a piece of cake.

private
12-07-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by DaveW
Coding doesn't mean adding new features. I have worked on software development in the past, and on almost every single project we worked to the very last minute with the testing and bug fixing. That requires coding to fix the bugs. Then you test the new version to make sure you didn't break something else when you fixed the bugs. If they had completely stopped all coding, then it should be released already. Making an installer is a piece of cake.

I agree with this, however, the testing and bug fixing should be done with quite a few people. If Newtek keeps the testing in house, then they would require more time, than if they sent it out to beta testers etc. Who knows what they've done. However, going from what was shown with 7.5b and 7.5c, their methods for squashing bugs and noticing broken scripts etc. should be changed. Whatever they did last time, I hope they learned from their mistakes.

As with everyone, for a solid, bug free release not people posting within the first week how many errors/bugs etc. they've found.

WizCraker
12-07-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by private
As with everyone, for a solid, bug free release not people posting within the first week how many errors/bugs etc. they've found.

Software can not be 100% bug free, when it is released and thousands of people start using it of course bugs will show up that the developers did not spot as that would be impossible.

If you believe the above to be wrong you are living in a dream world.

private
12-08-2003, 02:14 AM
Yes, but many of the reported bugs stayed bugs from 7.5 to 7.5b to 7.5c. That shouldn't be tolerated, should it?

I'm looking forward to LW8 as much as the rest, but I'm cautious, that's all.

jr_sunshine
12-08-2003, 06:22 AM
Coding doesn't mean adding new features. I have worked on software development in the past, and on almost every single project we worked to the very last minute with the testing and bug fixing. That requires coding to fix the bugs. Then you test the new version to make sure you didn't break something else when you fixed the bugs. If they had completely stopped all coding, then it should be released already. Making an installer is a piece of cake.

DaveW,

I agree with you completely. My comments were in response to people saying they should "Get it right". I bet if you ask those people to define what that means, they would tell you it means getting the all the features in LW they want. I was just pointing out they should be in the test, bug fix, and build for production phase and not implementing new features for the sake of what some people call getting it right.

Cheers.

spikey
12-08-2003, 06:59 AM
I got the same offer by email and there's also this tidbit..


Version [8] is expected to ship early 2004.

sketchyjay
12-08-2003, 07:44 AM
It can't ship that late, can it? They have LW 8 senimars already scheduled in the US for january. Lee and Larry have been telling people about these and signing people up.

Will have to wait till the end of this month to see what develops.

Jay

jr_sunshine
12-08-2003, 08:02 AM
Proton has consistently said 2003.

Hey proton.....


Still 2003?


:D

KillMe
12-08-2003, 05:43 PM
ah yes so it does hadn't noticed that little bit of info =) didn't read that far down before

jr_sunshine
12-08-2003, 08:04 PM
If true... NewTek probably feels like they have egg on their face. First time in a long time they actually give us details and even say when [8] would hit our grubby hands. The problem with "Early 2004" is it is every bit as vague as Q4 2003.

I wish they would just tell us its 2004 and be done with it so we can start breathing and enjoy the holidays.


:(

MrWyatt
12-09-2003, 01:27 AM
I wouldnīt mind if LW8 was released in february or even march . as long it is rock solid and gets my booty shakin. Keep calm though. no need for rumors. if somebody has to cry, he or she schould at least wait till 1. of january , because itīs only then that newtek would have technically missed the release date. i can understand the tension very well though. we all love LW and could tear our hairs out untill we get our hands on it.

:rolleyes:

edit:
this is from a mail i got from newtek. i guess you got it too. itīs on the near bottom of the mail:

"Better yet, you can pick up any of these great deals without leaving your seat - Right Now! Just surf on over to http://www.newtek.com/buynow and make your purchase on-line using our secure server. Santa will show up at your door early in 1-2 weeks!"

1-2 weeks, hmm and the mail was from 12.04. it shouldnīt be too long then if I understand it right. but on the other hand it could only mean santa will bring you DFX+ in 1-2 weeks and LW still could be released later.

in any case. patience is a gift. are we the gifted? i for one am.

cheers.

hrgiger
12-09-2003, 09:36 AM
I'm getting a little money for christmas so I hope LW 8 isn't released until after then. Maybe I still have a chance yet of getting the DFX deal. Just one way to be positive about LW8 coming out later rather then sooner.