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jeric_synergy
08-07-2015, 12:59 PM
I've been doing my due diligence by reading a couple of pages of 2015 dox every day (nice job, BeeVee), and saw "Segment Scale" in the newish category.

What are some possible uses for Segment Scale??? :confused: Someone obviously put a lot of work into it, but so far I haven't come up with a reason WHY. :stumped:


(The 'newish' is apparently just the rather global 'we now respect layers' additions to 2015.)

Lewis
08-07-2015, 02:20 PM
I have no idea, I tired to play with it in several occasions and i can't find practical use for it in day to day work :(

jeric_synergy
08-07-2015, 02:44 PM
I have no idea, I tired to play with it in several occasions and i can't find practical use for it in day to day work :(
Someone, someday, felt it was worth spending their time on. I wonder what they were thinking??

Lewis
08-07-2015, 02:55 PM
Someone, someday, felt it was worth spending their time on. I wonder what they were thinking??

No idea, maybe somene requested tat tool specificalyl or maybe Ikeda was thinking it's usefull for somethign. Hard to tell :).

spherical
08-07-2015, 04:02 PM
Heh. Well, I read the docs, tried the example given, plus a number of other selection orders, each using all of the options in the two drop-downs in various combinations, and find it to be very useful. Hadn't come across it up to this time, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

jeric_synergy
08-07-2015, 04:06 PM
Unless you've actually done some work with it, it ain't useful yet. :\

spherical
08-07-2015, 04:06 PM
Sigh....

Lewis
08-07-2015, 04:09 PM
.....each using all of the options in the two drop-downs in various combinations, and find it to be very useful.

Any example you can give us where is it that you find it usefull ? I can't seem to wrap my head around situation where I might actually need that comparing to regular Axis scale or Translate tool ?

thx

Snosrap
08-07-2015, 10:45 PM
I have no idea, I tired to play with it in several occasions and i can't find practical use for it in day to day work :(

Right you are Lewis. I wonder if NT has any real users on staff? I don't use half the crap they got in Modeler.

jeric_synergy
08-07-2015, 11:58 PM
Right you are Lewis. I wonder if NT has any real users on staff? I don't use half the crap they got in Modeler.
Me neither, but I will defer to anyone who's managed to FIND a use for some esoteric function.

That's why erikalst's videos are valuable: he has the patience to try all the variations for the ones that might actually make sense. QuadSkinPatcher is a good example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzr8w73_jR0

He kept going until he got something useful. --I sure don't have that kind of patience.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 08:22 AM
create a simply polygon in front view with some divisions..letīs say 4x4
unweld it, then use segment scale and you can get some panel work done, separate them individually, using scale typ sided 1 only... will make it shear

thats one use.

creating a circle then using scale type centered and first second selection order, and you will change the shape of the circle.
using side 1 only and selcetion order first second on a circle, and you can get some interesting star shapes or a saw type shape.

also..when scaling different segments in one object layer, one would think that size and segment scale is the same, but they are not, the relation between each segment scaled is increasing or decreasing dependin on minus or plus valus with segment scale, with the size tool the relation between segments are constant.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 09:16 AM
I have also noticed that the segment scale can be used to create scaling in a twisted way, so you can perform " rose " twist or for some end cushion distortion non uniformly.
And if you undetstand the selection order of first second and scale typ centered, depending on geometry you can create some different star shaped segment scaling.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 09:32 AM
And another one, if you create a road for instance, or create a flat box with some divisions, shape it to a curved road with spline guide, run the segment scale, and you will sort of scale thicken the road or make it thinner, almost a sort of offset scaling it.

point normal or sizing canīt do that.

Edited...if you use the px bezier tool to create belt..for roads or frames, once that is dropped you can use the segment scale to "offset scale" the "thickness" of the road.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-08-2015, 09:43 AM
Dude, you can ADD onto your posts, before a certain time threshold.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 09:45 AM
Dude, you can ADD onto your posts, before a certain time threshold.

Sure can, read them or discard them as you like.

erikals
08-08-2015, 12:34 PM
i prefer what Prometheus just did agctually, as the other 'edit' way won't give me email updates on an edit
it also makes it easy to see the new addition

go Promie!

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

erikals
08-08-2015, 12:38 PM
edit ?... nah... :°


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6ti9hwGRE

prometheus
08-08-2015, 01:10 PM
i prefer what Prometheus just did agctually, as the other 'edit' way won't give me email updates on an edit
it also makes it easy to see the new addition

go Promie!

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

for I while I thought I had something useful to tell with the actual lightwave tool, only to find that I did something good with my frenetic posting:D



edit ?... nah... :°


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-6ti9hwGRE

Uhmm, strange that the neurons canīt connect to all memory data in my brains, I knew this William Vaughan tutorial about the segment scale was out there..but the neurons didnīt make the connection, until you mentioned it, I need a rain man brain, seems you already got one:D

erikals
08-08-2015, 01:34 PM
yes, i=smart, and with enormous power comes enormous responsibility... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1xjUb84XY

a look the difference,

but also check WedgeSlide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzr7uUHC0xs), faster (!) http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
08-08-2015, 01:51 PM
yes, i=smart, and with enormous power comes enormous responsibility... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1xjUb84XY

a look the difference,

but also check WedgeSlide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzr7uUHC0xs), faster (!) http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

LOL...thereīs Ipod, Iphone..and if you skip the equal sign, then thereīs Ismart.

will have to take a look at the other tip another day, need to refuel the neurons.

erikals
08-08-2015, 02:01 PM
yes, iSmart... my new profile name http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gifhttp://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

jeric_synergy
08-08-2015, 03:05 PM
I watched the William Vaughn video ( Proton=indispensable ) before asking the question. I just don't see how this would come up very often, BUT I'm interested in seeing examples where it's The Tool for doing [XXXXX]. And if Lewis, who's forgotten more about modeling than I'll ever know, doesn't see much use for it, I'm satisfied that whatever function it meets is pretty esoteric.

Newtek's (at the time) penchant for piss-poor naming is exemplified in this tool, and a couple others, where somehow somebody decided "Segment" was a viable word to describe Edges. (It doesn't just HAPPEN, some individual MAKES these rubbish decisions.)

--I guess this tool WOULD kill for modeling pumpkins.

Lewis
08-08-2015, 04:36 PM
To me complete naming is wrong so i dont' find it particularly useful (maybe used it 3 time sin last several years just to see woudl it work on my desired object).

Try this:

1. Make 5/5/5m BOX wiht 5/5/5 segemnt son each axis
2. Select 2 polygons on single side of that box
3. Now try the tool in ANY mode/compbination.

It either moves 2 polys in undesired manner or Stretches/moves single edge of both polygons which are perfect square. To me that's TRETCH and not SCALE. Scale would be if i could scale any number of individual polygons around object in 2 or 3 axis(like local mode in layout which we don't have in modeler) THAT woudl be useful. This way as segment scale (wrong name ?) works is not reall tool i'd need on 99.9999999% of models :(.

If anyone knows "polygon islands" 3rd party plugin (free) that is actually what i expected to get with 2 polys seleced in my above example.

spherical
08-08-2015, 05:26 PM
Dude, you can ADD onto your posts, before a certain time threshold.

He's trying to get to YOUR post count. :)

erikals
08-08-2015, 05:28 PM
it might not be an obsolete tool, but it's certainly not a number 1, or 2, or 3...

+ i use other plugins instead...

i'd put it under the "more" pull-down...

----------

as for Modeler, who knows, maybe we'll see something new in 3 days... > maybe.

spherical
08-08-2015, 05:35 PM
2. Select 2 polygons on single side of that box
<SNIP>
If anyone knows "polygon islands" 3rd party plugin (free) that is actually what i expected to get with 2 polys seleced in my above example.

I know I'm treading on thin ice, here, but according to the docs:


Segment Scale (Modify > Transform > Segment Scale) allows you to select a group of points (in order)
and scale them as one segment. This is a real time interactive tool that allows direct manipulation
in any Modeler viewport.

So, I wouldn't expect that satisfactory results would be obtained with it in poly manipulation either.

Agreed, Polygon Islands is indispensable for that type of manipulation.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 07:50 PM
He's trying to get to YOUR post count. :)

Happy to see someone figuring that out:D

and yes..the segment scale tool, rarely used here either, that doesnīt mean itīs useless.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-08-2015, 08:15 PM
And yet, no one has come up with a use for it. 0_o That's kind of the definition of useless.

prometheus
08-08-2015, 08:25 PM
And yet, no one has come up with a use for it. 0_o That's kind of the definition of useless.

you obviously havenīt read my descriptions on where to use it.

try make a road with the px bezier tool as I mentioned ..drop it..and go back and scale the width of the road, using the segment scale helps...but I already mentioned that, but it doesnīt matter, I keep on hunting you on the post count, so I just had to answer.

spherical
08-09-2015, 12:38 AM
And yet, no one has come up with a use for it. 0_o That's kind of the definition of useless.

What Prometheus said. I mean, all ya gotta do is look at the examples in the Docs and the uses that Prometheus has outlined and think a bit and you've got to see some benefit.

And, now that I've had the opportunity to try out a new tool and see how it works (plus the examples given in this thread) when a situation comes along in a modeling task and it gets me where I need to go in less time than earlier required, I'll be sure that you're the first to know.

jeric_synergy
08-09-2015, 08:47 AM
I await with bated breath.

JoePoe
08-09-2015, 12:36 PM
Thanks for this post!

I use Wedge Slide ALL THE TIME and this is an interactive real time version of that..... going to come in very handy, for me.
WedgeSlide now requires an initial guess and a numeric input. If it's not right, you have to undo and try again. Very useful but a PITA!!

Also..... what's missing from Edit Edges now!? You can either slide a whole edge or only ONE segment at a time. Segment Scale lets you move any length of edge you want... along individual (defined by pairs) vectors, which can't be done in one shot with Transform Gizmo (a la Erikals' second vid).

Only problem is that it's pretty finicky on selection order. But I think this will come in pretty handy.

spherical
08-09-2015, 04:04 PM
Exactly, JoePoe. Yes, selection order can do some interesting things that one just wouldn't expect. This can be a good or bad thing. :D Experiment!