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Roque
08-05-2015, 02:27 PM
Hi, its possible make instance of an object with DP Micro Diplacement? maybe using DP instance? that its a volumetric plugin too?
Or any other solution?

thank you,
Roque

dpont
08-05-2015, 03:04 PM
They are volumetric plugins,
both based on geometric reference objects,
but through a different process,
they can't handle their result each other,
sorry, interaction is not possible.

Denis.

Roque
08-05-2015, 03:45 PM
They are volumetric plugins,
both based on geometric reference objects,
but through a different process,
they can't handle their result each other,
sorry, interaction is not possible.

Denis.

Hello Denis, what a shame that this is not possible. I am currently working in a very complicated project that requires both, any suggestions or recommendations? As always thanks you for your support :)

dpont
08-06-2015, 12:06 AM
Hello Denis, what a shame that this is not possible. I am currently working in a very complicated project that requires both, any suggestions or recommendations? As always thanks you for your support :)

Don't know your project so I can't say,
depends what you expect by instancing,
if you are more interest by the distribution of the objects
but not limited in RAM memory,
your could use an instancer with an undisplaced reference object,
then convert intances to clones with a script,
then, MicroDisp can be applied to multi items
in the scene editor,

in case of a large group of object and dense geometry
you should experiment with a few items first,
..not sure about render time..

Denis.

Roque
08-06-2015, 07:26 AM
Don't know your project so I can't say,
depends what you expect by instancing,
if you are more interest by the distribution of the objects
but not limited in RAM memory,
your could use an instancer with an undisplaced reference object,
then convert intances to clones with a script,
then, MicroDisp can be applied to multi items
in the scene editor,

in case of a large group of object and dense geometry
you should experiment with a few items first,
..not sure about render time..

Denis.

Thanks Denis!
I was investigating among your nodes and found one that it's unnoticed and is a small wonder: displace node :)
I guess that does something similar to what did for years the "AVT bump".
While it is not a real effect is sufficient for many applications, it is fast and works with instances :)
I have only one problem, the AA pass is previous and the effect not have AA :(

I remember that in AVT bump the AA works perfect, that's was many years a go, nodes don't exist.
Do you think can be some way to have this effect with AA?
Thank you so much,
Roque

dpont
08-06-2015, 08:32 AM
Thanks Denis!
I was investigating among your nodes and found one that it's unnoticed and is a small wonder: displace node :)
I guess that does something similar to what did for years the "AVT bump".
While it is not a real effect is sufficient for many applications, it is fast and works with instances :)
I have only one problem, the AA pass is previous and the effect not have AA :(

I remember that in AVT bump the AA works perfect, that's was many years a go, nodes don't exist.
Do you think can be some way to have this effect with AA?
Thank you so much,
Roque

Speaking of DP Filter, Displace node is simpler than AVT bump,
just 2D displacement of an input image,

AVT has more stuff linked to an object shader plugin
for displacing in post-process filter along the normal of the object,
needs also to give a priority to displaced pixel closer to point of view,
(i.e with an internal cache) which is not possible with a node setup,
not sure that this process is perfectible,
AA is problematic especially if pixel is overscaled,
a kind of 'pixel blending' is not very good for this situation.

Denis.

gerardstrada
08-06-2015, 10:45 AM
Hola Roque!

Just to add to what Denis has said, you might want to try with the double instance trick Denis shared for this article:

http://lightwiki.com/wiki/Multipass_Rendering_with_Filter_Node_Editors

Denis Pontonnier's Tip: Simply add a second instance of the Pixel Filter Node Editor for building your node tree. It inherits the "Multithread" and "RayTrace" Options of the first instance, but these options are still independent and can be modified and be different. The state of these options are now readable directly in the Processing tab.

Note: In this way, we can preview in Viper our node setups, add presets, and perform the same processings on conventional buffers that we are able to complete in DP_NIF, but with the PFNE advantages. Please take note of this because it will be important for later articles.

So for your case the idea would be to add 2 instances of the Pixel Filter Node Editor and apply the DP Displace node in the second instance. In this way the filter will be applied per AA pass.

http://s16.postimage.org/ybd9ewdx1/displace.png

Since Displace node tend to blur images a bit you might want to split the render of these elements in passes to apply a sharpen filter to keep crispy textures.

http://s12.postimage.org/7x5xkrr71/DP_Displace.gif"]http://s12.postimage.org/7x5xkrr71/DP_Displace.gif

More info here:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?71751-Extra-Buffer-nodes&p=1276469&viewfull=1#post1276469

With this approach the Camera Classic works better and it would be recommendable to add mBLur and DOF in post and probably render the displaced elements in a separate layer. In the latter case we would need to add the DP Displace node to the Alpha of these elements too.

Additionally (or instead) you'd want to try by applying AA later in post with something like OLMSmoother as suggested by Erikals here:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?71751-Extra-Buffer-nodes&p=1272044&viewfull=1#post1272044

Saludos,



Gerardo

Roque
08-06-2015, 02:08 PM
Speaking of DP Filter, Displace node is simpler than AVT bump,
just 2D displacement of an input image,

AVT has more stuff linked to an object shader plugin
for displacing in post-process filter along the normal of the object,
needs also to give a priority to displaced pixel closer to point of view,
(i.e with an internal cache) which is not possible with a node setup,
not sure that this process is perfectible,
AA is problematic especially if pixel is overscaled,
a kind of 'pixel blending' is not very good for this situation.

Denis.

AVT Bump always seemed great, almost magical :P
I thought it would have more chances with nodes now.
Thanks Denis,
Roque

Roque
08-06-2015, 02:18 PM
Hola Gerardo, tanto tiempo! :)
Yes, I knew that trick, but it does not work for me. I could not get working the displace node in PFNE, but work in IFNE :(
I do not know what I'm doing wrong and if duplicare PFNE and hit F9 my LW crash :P
Abrazo,
Roque

dpont
08-06-2015, 02:50 PM
About the 'double PFNE' trick,
don't duplicate the node editor,
first add an empty PFNE,
then add a second PFNE and build your setup in this one.

Denis.

Roque
08-06-2015, 04:48 PM
Sorry, but I canīt have AA after displacement, here my scene, maybe you can see that I'm doing wrong :(

129166

gerardstrada
08-06-2015, 05:11 PM
I'll check your scene, but in the meantime, one won't want to copy the node setup from IFNE but build it from scratch in PFNE instead.

If you ask me, the simpler technique that offers pretty good results is Erikals suggestion. IRender a separate layer of your displaced objects and apply a node setup like this one in IFNE:

http://s10.postimg.org/hv9lp1m2f/disp_setup.png

Notice the effect will affect the alpha too. You can save the output as OpenEXR.

Then add OLM Smoother in Ae or Nuke, you can improve AA by applying the filter, nesting or precomposing and applying the filter again multiple times. In this quick sample I used the filter (by default settings) 5 times:

http://s10.postimg.org/5kgn4z01l/DPdisp.gif

on the top of that you could add a sharpen filter to get more crispy textures.



Gerardo

gerardstrada
08-06-2015, 05:40 PM
Sorry, but I canīt have AA after displacement, here my scene, maybe you can see that I'm doing wrong :(

129166

Attaching a version that works here. As commented previously, one needs to build the node setup from scratch. Copying what it's in IFNE won't work, but you'll get quicker results by applying the displace in IFNE and additional AA in post with OLM Smoother.

Hope it helps,



Gerardo

Roque
08-06-2015, 06:35 PM
Well... that was exactly what I was doing, copied from IF and pasted in PF. Thanks Gerardo :)

gerardstrada
08-06-2015, 06:44 PM
Glad it helped!

By the way, if you want to get more "rounded" 2D displacements, you could convert the bumps to normals with DP BumpNormal node and plug that in Store ExtraBuffer. It's not really correct but could give you other displacement "look".



Gerardo

Roque
08-07-2015, 02:12 PM
Hi Gerardo, you made me cheat! jajaja :P
To make the AA, you use the MBLUR passes. As much as he tried, he would not have results with a classical AA.
Or maybe is possible have a classical AA with AdaptivSampling?

Thanks for bumps to normal trick :)

Abrazo,
Roque

gerardstrada
08-07-2015, 07:33 PM
Hola Roque,

Nope, LW freezes here after the second pass. Have you given a try to the IFNE+OLMSmooth approach? it's free (http://www.olm.co.jp/opentools/olmlogin.php?lang=en), btw and the technique is faster.



Gerardo

dpont
08-08-2015, 02:14 AM
Hola Roque,

Nope, LW freezes here after the second pass. Have you given a try to the IFNE+OLMSmooth approach? it's free (http://www.olm.co.jp/opentools/olmlogin.php?lang=en), btw and the technique is faster.



Gerardo

I investigate around this issue,
Get Extra Buffer node doesn't work correcty in the second PFNE,
with Multithread.AA option,
seems to be an internal multithreading issue in Layout,
no way at this state for identifying the working thread.

anyway I got partial resuls with Displace node
and this setup is useless,
must be smoothed in a post effect like you said.

Denis.

gerardstrada
08-08-2015, 04:27 PM
anyway I got partial resuls with Displace node
and this setup is useless,
must be smoothed in a post effect like you said.

Denis.

Hello Denis,

The setup is not useless if we can render with classic AA passes.
Applying DP Displace in IFNE and smoothing things out in post is a faster alternative:

http://s12.postimg.org/q76bglgzh/DPDisp.gif

Maybe rendering the objects mask in a Global Buffer with DP Mask Objects could help to skip a separate layer render http://forums.newtek.com/images/icons/icon7.png



Gerardo