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unstable
07-26-2015, 08:59 AM
I'm trying to make something similar to the 'goal' picture. But as you can see, I can't seem to do this without distorting the circular shape. I've included the LW object as well if that helps. Looking for some guidance on how to connect these two and retain the shape in subd. BTW, I'm using 11.6

prometheus
07-26-2015, 09:50 AM
I'm trying to make something similar to the 'goal' picture. But as you can see, I can't seem to do this without distorting the circular shape. I've included the LW object as well if that helps. Looking for some guidance on how to connect these two and retain the shape in subd. BTW, I'm using 11.6

Im no expert in subdiv modeling, but I can see that you have triangles in the circle part where it connects with the other part, try keep only quads as you have on the rest of the main circular shape, I tested to select those edges and dissolve them, then selected the parts that consequently became ngons, and then hit shift-t to triple those part, then merge trigons..that gave a better result retaining the shape, but with some pinching at the area where it joins with the other part, you could probably manually fix it but I havenīt had the time to try.

hereīs my fix..not perfect, and it is only made on half the part, so you can mirror it or try fixing the pinching.

A typical modeling task better suited for cad tools, with no nead to figure out how edges or polys are flowing.

image showing which edges I used dissolve on...but you have to reconstruct the connection within the flat area that is directly connected to the other part...
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129046&d=1437926814

unstable
07-26-2015, 10:17 AM
Thanks, you got me back on track. I should have realized breaking the perimeter of the circle would alter its shape. As you said, I still have to work on some pinching and a bulge here there but at least I'll be moving forward. Thanks again.

prometheus
07-26-2015, 10:24 AM
and if you can get away with using catmull clark subdiv, you only have to dissolve those edges and then subdiv.

hrgiger
07-26-2015, 02:22 PM
One thing you have to be conscious of when subdivision modeling is sometimes you have to have the right level of detail to get the shapes you want. You can't expect to connect something to a curved shape that has a set number of divisions and then add an edge without it affecting the shape. In this case, you would need a higher division so that you can join those two shapes together and not have it affect the roundness of the original part. I mean, you can always add edges in and then adjust the shape but its difficult to not get a noticeable break in the surface when you have an uneven number of divisions in something like a circle. I subdivided the model once and then had enough resolution to join the two parts together without having to add in the edges where you have the triangles. There are still some creases that need addressed but this might be closer to what you want.

129047

And here is the model (just note that I sized this down some as I adjusted for the subdivide but I am just providing this as an example to look at).

129048

Waves of light
07-26-2015, 03:00 PM
Whenever my brain gets fried on sub-d poly loops, cuts, order and edges, I take a look at these sites (they don't use Lightwave, but you get the idea):

http://imgur.com/a/dEWXP
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014&page=2

unstable
07-26-2015, 08:18 PM
Very good point Hrgiger, thanks. Thanks for the resource on that stuff Waves of light. I appreciate it. I remember there used to be a reference image that showed how to take a row of 6 polys down to 2 or 3 polys, but I forgot where it is. It really didn't apply here but I was also trying to determine the best way to have a hex shape inside a circle (8 sided), like an allen wrench screw. I did it, but I don't know if it is the best way. At any rate, thanks for the feedback and links.

jeric_synergy
07-26-2015, 08:25 PM
EDIT: on re-reading this thread I see the OP has already found the probiner links, so..... never mind? Leaving for les education pour les autres:


http://probiner.xyz/2013/03/18/topology-keys-interactive-shift-samplers/

http://lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling

http://probiner.xyz/2010/03/03/elbows-interactive-sampler/

I was looking for, probably probiner's, polygon stepdown images reference, but I couldn't quite locate them.

EDIT: here's a reference on a blog of a guy who happens to be A) a world leading Mograph artists that B) will be speaking at August's AE user group meeting in Seattle:

http://helloluxx.com/tutorials/cinema4d-2/cinema4d-modeling/reference-tables-for-sub-d-modeling/

His links to the 'forum' are busted/extinct, but ....

I'm pretty sure these are probiner's, but, buddy, can't find 'em on your site.

AND, inside one of the above links, here's a particularly clear post: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?98754-Polygon-Table-Help-Building-One&p=884048&viewfull=1#post884048

meshpig
07-27-2015, 12:53 AM
... the cut tool will follow the edge.


129052


129053

Waves of light
07-27-2015, 01:21 AM
And there is also this (which can help get the basic shape merges done quickly):

Meta Mesh v1.10 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctESAMUQYv8

jeric_synergy
07-27-2015, 01:50 AM
Yeah, seriously. I think we can retire all such threads and just say "Buy this."

meshpig
07-27-2015, 02:15 AM
... unfortunately it's a PPC .p plugin only for mac. Pretty awesome.

Andy Webb
07-27-2015, 06:33 AM
It says Windows or Mac on their website

JoePoe
07-27-2015, 10:24 AM
It says Windows or Mac on their website

.p is old for us. We use .plugin now

Also.... to the OP.... regarding the interior octagon shape.
You don't really need to worry yourself with a poly step-down here (although it's still a good technique to know).
Just start with a 24 sided disc. Rotate points (in two groups) on the inside to give you control loops defining the "corners" of the octagon shape.

129057 129056

jeric_synergy
07-27-2015, 10:37 AM
JoePoe, why 24 specifically? (I sometimes find that techniques are very dependent on specific numbers that get glossed over.)

FWIW and tangentially related, I created a bunch of patches with varying numbers of perimeter points, and used iain_r's CREATE.LS to generate a number of "primitives" (one-button generation) , and when I need to patch a hole I can just hit one button and get a proper patch for a number of situations.

jeric_synergy
07-27-2015, 10:56 AM
JoePoe, why 24 specifically? (I sometimes find that techniques are very dependent on specific numbers that get glossed over.)

FWIW and tangentially related, I created a bunch of patches with varying numbers of perimeter points, and used iain_r's CREATE.LS to generate a number of "primitives" (one-button generation) , and when I need to patch a hole I can just hit one button and get a proper patch for a number of situations.

JoePoe
07-27-2015, 11:03 AM
JoePoe, why 24 specifically? (I sometimes find that techniques are very dependent on specific numbers that get glossed over.)

It's all about what you want to end up with. Here he wanted an 8 sided interior shape. A control edge is needed on either side, so 3 edges per corner = 24.
It could also be done with a 16 sided disc. It just won't have the central edge in each bend... which I like to have. Personal preference.

129059

unstable
07-27-2015, 12:29 PM
Thanks so much for all the extra info and links. I sort through this information and do some practicing. Again, its all appreciated. I must get better in case Speed Modeling challenges return.:D

jwiede
07-27-2015, 01:17 PM
... unfortunately it's a PPC .p plugin only for mac. Pretty awesome.

All the 3rdPowers plugins I have for Mac are UB/64-compatible -- though I don't have MetaMesh, I see no reason to think it is different from the others in that regard. What makes you think it is PPC .p only?

(edit) Just checked, and MetaMesh is also a modern Mac LW UB-compatible .plugin, as I thought.

jeric_synergy
07-27-2015, 01:30 PM
It's all about what you want to end up with. Here he wanted an 8 sided interior shape.
Oh. Hmmm, I was just conceptualizing that as a round hole, but I guess your image is polys not subd.

JoePoe
07-27-2015, 01:42 PM
Oh. Hmmm, I was just conceptualizing that as a round hole, but I guess your image is polys not subd.

Nope. All my images are SubD :thumbsup:.

----

edit: Oh, and thanks for the .plugin heads up John! (have to admit, I haven't looked myself)

DCjr
07-27-2015, 04:20 PM
Oh that is nice,
Im ordering this!

meshpig
07-27-2015, 10:33 PM
All the 3rdPowers plugins I have for Mac are UB/64-compatible -- though I don't have MetaMesh, I see no reason to think it is different from the others in that regard. What makes you think it is PPC .p only?

(edit) Just checked, and MetaMesh is also a modern Mac LW UB-compatible .plugin, as I thought.

You're right. Thanks! Not sure why I thought that... well, you know.

unstable
08-01-2015, 02:46 PM
Hi all,
For those of you who gave me some guidance on getting things right, I wanted to post my progress. I also thought I'd show where I was before your help and the result of your help. Then I thought I would include the end result (at least for the modeling). Now I want to move forward and try to learn how to properly texture this thing so it has some wear and tear, grease, etc. But for now, its brand spanking new. :D I just wanted to let you know that I appreciated you taking a few minutes from you day to offer me some guidance which resulted in something that has increased my skills a little bit. THANKS!!

spherical
08-01-2015, 03:26 PM
Nice presentation! Great results. This is a good example of this community and what it can achieve. A wonderful thing to wake up to today. Thanks for taking the time to put that all together. As a direct result of this, I'm going to go through the steps offered in this thread and see what I can learn, because, as it says in my Bio: Every Day That I Learn Something New Is A Good Day.

prometheus
08-01-2015, 03:32 PM
a suggestion, maybe try to add a bit of reflection blur on the metal, depends on how much chrome/silver glossy look you want, but I think most of such nut screws arenīt that high glossy..you could add just a tiny tiny bit if you still want it very high glossy.
also take a look at conductor material for metals, you will only find energy conserving materials like the conductor material in the node editing of the surfaces, for adjusting reflection blur with the conductor node, in the advanced tab of the conductor node, turn on reflection blur, how much is controlled in the other basic tab using roughness values.

Michael

jeric_synergy
08-01-2015, 05:00 PM
I appreciate the presentation also. Nicely done.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AXIS ROTATE:
Playing with this, can't seem to get AXIS ROTATE to do what I want.

129111
What I'd like to do is rotate the indicated poly around its normal, but I can't seem to find the proper order of steps with AXIS ROTATE. The dox seem to indicate that SHIFT+LMB should do it, but that's not what I'm experienceing. Tips?

djwaterman
08-01-2015, 06:35 PM
You probably need to add a fresnel to the reflection, at the moment it seems reflective all over. And certainly blur the reflection some. Nice modeling result.