PDA

View Full Version : still and animation question



Niko3D
07-06-2015, 04:17 AM
Hi folks,

I have a question...
I 'm making an archviz animation (it's wip)...but I don't understand why the frames, I'm talking about GI, are a bit different between my workstation and my RenderFarm.
I mean...everything works fine...no flickering, very clear ect...but the GI it's a bit different. The render from my workstation is much better for me!
Why???

I've attached one frame...of course...same scene, same setting...ect...
It's only the same one frame rendered with Farm and with my workstation...but why is it different?!

some help?

128852128853

Lewis
07-06-2015, 04:24 AM
1. Is the GI baked and locked?
2. Do you have any changing light intensities during animation ?
3. Are you absolutely sure that GI is being used on renderfarm (i.e. no nede is doing GI rendering but using GI bake properly) ?
4. what are you using as/to control renderfarm ?
5. Is the Configs file used for LW and Network render same ? (sRGB/Linear, plugns...)

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 04:32 AM
1. Is the GI baked and locked?
2. Do you have any changing light intensities during animation ?
3. Are you absolutely sure that GI is being used on renderfarm (i.e. no nede is doing GI rendering but using GI bake properly) ?
4. what are you using as/to control renderfarm ?
5. Is the Configs file used for LW and Network render same ? (sRGB/Linear, plugns...)

mmmm....
1. Yes Gi baked and locked. I used FG.
2. Yes the light changing during the animation...this is just the last frame.
3. Yes.
4. ButterFly NetRender.
5. Yes...same setting...just send the job to the farm.

Probably could be I used FG instead of MC?

Lewis
07-06-2015, 04:41 AM
can you try with LWSN i.e. ScreamerNet II just to rule-out Butterfly.

Is it LW 2015 or ?

BTW you can't change light intensity/movement if you are BAKING, that doesn't work (I've tried that in past and reported but being explained by DEVs that GI can't change light intensities if is baked)

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 04:53 AM
can you try with LWSN i.e. ScreamerNet II just to rule-out Butterfly.

Is it LW 2015 or ?

BTW you can't change light intensity/movement if you are BAKING, that doesn't work (I've tried that in past and reported but being explained by DEVs that GI can't change light intensities if is baked)

Unfortunately I can try with ScreamerNet because I'm working at a company...and I'm fixed with BNR...
Yes I'm using 2015.2...the last release...

But I don't understand...I can't change the light?????????????...This is RIDICULOUS!!!!
I need the to move the sun!..not the light intensity...
So...I can't move the sun???...I can only use MC NO interpolated for to do that?...I need one year to calculate the animation!

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 04:56 AM
...and in any case...why the still image is it different from the workstation and renderfarm?

Lewis
07-06-2015, 05:03 AM
But if you look it logically if you are baking then it's baked, if you change the light then it needs to be calculated again i..e it's different than in baked file. Baking is mostly for flythrough when camera is moving and some objects but lighting change is problematic.

Since it's exterior you could use Montecarlo Bruteforce with Low RPE (2-3 bounces and 10-15 RPE) and AA 1-2 + AS 32-128 depending how much you need to cleanup noise. Try with it just to see how will it stand.

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 05:25 AM
Yes you're right...
But I don't understand...after the bake I don't change the light movement...why the GI don't bake the light?
If I watch now the animation is good...I mean...the light change...but it's a bit different from my workstation...
I'll try with MC no interpolated...

You want to say the opposite maybe...AA 32-128 + AS 0.01?Right?

Lewis
07-06-2015, 05:37 AM
Yes you're right...
But I don't understand...after the bake I don't change the light movement...why the GI don't bake the light?


What I wanted to say that you can't Bake it properly if lighting is changed (and it is since position of light source is changing) not that you can't change or can after baking. Process of Baking should have same lighting. What was the framestep while you were baking ? Every frame or every Nth frame ? I had some success at baking lighting (sun direction/position) as every 10th frame but nothign beside camera was moving since it was interior shoots. I occasionaly got flickering so i re-rendered 4 times whole animation and singled out frames which were flickering (it was not flickered on same frames) and combined them. Since it was interior it was still faster than bruteforce but for exteriors I was using bruteforce MC all the time with low RPE. That always works and looks perfect IF you have enough power/time to wait for it ;).



If I watch now the animation is good...I mean...the light change...but it's a bit different from my workstation...
I'll try with MC no interpolated...

You want to say the opposite maybe...AA 32-128 + AS 0.01?Right?

To be precise you give it 1-2 Minimum AA and then turn on Adaptive and put high value for MAX passes so try with 32 and go up if needed, Threshold of 0.01 is OK.
AS checkmark is activating MAX value so that's why i said put AS somethign between 32 and 128 'coz effectively if you put threshold at 0 then you will get exactly that much of Adaptive sampling passes. With threshold 0.01 it'll get ignored after 1 % so you might get less than MAXimum if is cleaned faster i.e. before 1% noise/aliasing.

Try it on small scale resolution and see what are render times, you could be pleasantly surprised with shadow quality and speed since its outdoor scene. For interiors it's impossible/slow with any kind of machine ;).

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 05:58 AM
My scene is very simple...just camera path.
The only things that change are...of course the camera (eheheh) and the sun (hours)...becuase I have to show the building in a different hours of the day during the animation.
So the animation starts with the sun at 10 am until 2000frames...from here the sun will start to change from 10 am to 20 pm. That's all.
I've just baked the all scene like this and stop.

Lewis in any case I don't understand why the single frame is different between workstation and farm...do you know why?I mean the GI (wrong or right doesn't matter) should be the same!Why?

Lewis
07-06-2015, 06:07 AM
Lewis in any case I don't understand why the single frame is different between workstation and farm...do you know why?I mean the GI (wrong or right doesn't matter) should be the same!Why?

That's why asked what are you using for network rendering. I suspect renderfarm (BNR) didn't use GI cache/bake so it rendered new light conditions. I see stuff under windows like it's light leaking and it's overall more bright. Can't say for sure without scene to examine so if you can send me scene (on PM) i'll examine it further.

cheers

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 06:35 AM
You see the lights under the windows because the are some light inside!ahahah...Because the camera path is from outside to inside and again outside...the camera goes through the building. It's not light leaking...infact I don't have flickering or something else...the light is fix...it seems just a different GI.
The scene is very heavy and it is composed of more files. Context, building, garden ect...and a lot of instances...I can try to give you just the building and context/garden files...ok?

Lewis
07-06-2015, 06:39 AM
You see the lights under the windows because the are some light inside!ahahah...Because the camera path is from outside to inside and again outside...the camera goes through the building. It's not light leaking...infact I don't have flickering or something else...the light is fix...it seems just a different GI.
The scene is very heavy and it is composed of more files. Context, building, garden ect...and a lot of instances...I can try to give you just the building and context/garden files...ok?

Try to strip the scene just to those buildings in fist plan and then check does it make same issue in your local and render farm. Then you can use PackageScene to make it all 1 file/folder and send it to me or even NT if it proves to be bug maybe. There is always chance you encountered/found some BUG possibly.

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 06:51 AM
One time I found a weird behaviors with the light and sun movements.
I tried to move in manual the sun (Dpont SunSky) from -5 degrees (like 4am) to +45 (about more or less 16pm)...then from completely night to daylight...but the GI doesn't work in ALL mode...FG, MC interpolated and not...
I asked to the LW3DG and they forwarded this problem to the DEVs...because maybe was a bug...

After one month I received this:

(Case LWB-1539) Sunsky and GI not working together‏
You have to enable the animated GI cache to animate a light source. The reason it bakes as black is that the first frame you render of a non-animated cache set the illumination of all the visible samples since the camera is not moving. If you enable the animated GI cache however you can bake out ever 10 frames and then the GI will interpolate the inbetween frames.

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 06:54 AM
It's weird I rendered in this way but doesn't work...so in the end I gave up...

Lewis
07-06-2015, 06:56 AM
yes that's every 10th frame idea what i've been using in past, it works but not in all cases so it's mostly testing/tweaking to see would it work in your scene. Sometime s you can get shadow trails/smudges if there is some faster movements in scene since it interpolates/blends shadows between 1st and 11th frame.

try it just to see 40-50 frames to check would it work in your scene.

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 07:02 AM
I'll see about that...now my main challenge is the previous question!ahahahah...

souzou
07-06-2015, 07:05 AM
Are you using dpont sunsky for the environment lighting? The lighting looks completely different in both, like the sun is in a different position/different time of day (rather than a GI issue).

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 07:22 AM
Yes I'm using dpont sunsky...I said I don't have any flickering ect...and if I don't move the sun the light is perfect. So the farm reads the cache ect.
But if I move the sun the general light is different between my workstation and farm...and I don't understand why.

In any case thanks guys for help me!

lightscape
07-06-2015, 07:59 AM
I can try to render it in the farm as well. Pm me a stripped down version.
I suspect its bnr or a colorspace issue.

If you're animating a light source you have to use animated cache which takes a looooonng time to bake compared to a static cache.
Honestly for this kind of scene I would use backdrop radiosity with interpolation off. Or use kray :D

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 08:07 AM
In the next days I'll make some test...and I'll let you know!

I wait K3...eheheheheh...;)...It looks awesome!

souzou
07-06-2015, 08:39 AM
Final Gather doesn't have animated radiosity cache, that might be your issue. Like Lewis said try a test with MC.

Niko3D
07-06-2015, 08:42 AM
Final Gather doesn't have animated radiosity cache, that might be your issue. Like Lewis said try a test with MC.

Yes!Next move will be to use MC with animated ON.

souzou
07-06-2015, 01:52 PM
Looks like FG cache is the culprit:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Igw6bzAQc

It's a bit washed out on youtube but you can see the yellower light and the reflections around the base of the cube that remain.

Niko3D
07-07-2015, 04:18 AM
Looks like FG cache is the culprit:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Igw6bzAQc

It's a bit washed out on youtube but you can see the yellower light and the reflections around the base of the cube that remain.

Thank you!It's a nice test...So I think could be that I used FG instead MC...:(...