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lertola2
07-02-2015, 04:21 PM
I am experiencing very slow renders with Lightwave 2015. A test render of my current project takes 1 minute and 18 seconds to render each frame. When this scene is rendered with LWSN it only takes 10.8 seconds per frame. Lightwave 11.6.3 will render this scene at 16 seconds per frame. You can see in the attached screen shots that when lightwave 2015 is rendering system activity takes almost 60 percent of the processing power. That does not happen with LWSN or Lightwave 11.6.3. I also tested on a second computer. That one is also slower with Lightwave 2015 but not as much as my computer. On that computer Lighwave 2015 took 40 seconds per frame. LWSN took 16 seconds and Lightwave 11.6 took 20 seconds with this same scene. Is anyone else having a problem with Lightwave 2015 render speed?

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128796&d=1435874020

128796

spherical
07-03-2015, 03:08 AM
Not enough information, IMO.

GI enabled?
Importance Sampling making a difference?
LWSN on only this one (same) machine? If yes, then use it?

Many things different between 11.x and 2015.x. Just need to determine what is the real issue, as many things can create possible tradeoffs in quality/speed.

lertola2
07-03-2015, 05:52 AM
Not enough information, IMO.

GI enabled?
Importance Sampling making a difference?
LWSN on only this one (same) machine? If yes, then use it?

Many things different between 11.x and 2015.x. Just need to determine what is the real issue, as many things can create possible tradeoffs in quality/speed.

This scene is not using GI so Importance Sampling is not on. The LWSN is rendering on the same machine.

3dworks
07-03-2015, 09:43 AM
could it be a RAM issue? LWSn uses much less RAM overhead compared to layout.

cheers

markus

Sensei
07-03-2015, 11:11 AM
Compare screen-shots. 2015 has 2144.4 MB memory used, while 11.6.x has 12.8 MB memory used (on the right top of status window).

3DGFXStudios
07-03-2015, 12:45 PM
do you have image caching enabled? That can slow down rendering as well.

3dworks
07-03-2015, 02:03 PM
if you can set up a test scene i'm happy to check if this happens as well on my macs...

raw-m
07-04-2015, 03:24 AM
do you have image caching enabled? That can slow down rendering as well.

Hi 3DGFXStudios, where is this setting found? Is it called something else?

PS, Just found it! Prefs/Gen, at the bottom.

ianr
07-04-2015, 04:12 AM
Everthing okay now ?

o whats the ammened proper render time now
against older versions of lightwave?

lertola2
07-07-2015, 08:54 AM
Everthing okay now ?

o whats the ammened proper render time now
against older versions of lightwave?

Apparently the Image Cache is what was causing the problem. Thank you 3DGFXStudios for pointing that out. This file renders 4.5 times faster with that turned off. I never noticed this Image Caching check box before. What is it good for?

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128861&d=1436280524
128861

spherical
07-07-2015, 02:22 PM
Page 1079 in the 2015 manual.

jwiede
07-07-2015, 03:45 PM
How much memory is present in that system overall?

You appear to have had 2984MB assigned to the cache. Given enough images to cache, and if you only have 4GB of RAM (or 8GB but lots of other stuff running) you may have inadvertantly assigned so much to the image cache, you may have forced the system into heavy disk paging because of memory scarcity -- that would explain the huge system time expenditure (representing the exception handling / disk paging).

Diagnosis is difficult without knowing how much RAM was present, what else was running, etc. A screen capture including the "Memory" page of Activity Monitor while 2015 is rendering so slowly would help diagnose (particularly how much memory was "wired" at the time).

Every4thPixel
07-08-2015, 02:07 AM
How much memory is present in that system overall?

You appear to have had 2984MB assigned to the cache. Given enough images to cache, and if you only have 4GB of RAM (or 8GB but lots of other stuff running) you may have inadvertantly assigned so much to the image cache, you may have forced the system into heavy disk paging because of memory scarcity -- that would explain the huge system time expenditure (representing the exception handling / disk paging).

Diagnosis is difficult without knowing how much RAM was present, what else was running, etc. A screen capture including the "Memory" page of Activity Monitor while 2015 is rendering so slowly would help diagnose (particularly how much memory was "wired" at the time).

I'm not sure that that could be the problem. Last week I had a little scene with just a few images and it slowed down lw considerably. I've 64GB memory so that can't be the problem. Render times went down from 2min45 to about 25 sec when I turned it off.

lertola2
07-08-2015, 06:06 AM
I am getting the same results when testing with my home computer:

Image cache set to 2048. Rendering with Lightwave: The scene loads and Lightwave takes 1.5 minutes to render each frame.

Image cache set to 512. Loading scene with Lightwave: The scene never finishes loading. About 20 image cache files are created in the ImageCache folder. Then a 450 gb file is created. Then every minute or so another 450 gb file is created and the previous 450 gb file is erased. I had to force Lightwave to quit to get this to stop.

With image cache turned off. Rendering with Lightwave: Scene renders in 20 seconds per frame.

Image cache set to 2048, 512 or off. Rendering with LWSN: Scene renders in about 15 seconds per frame. The manual says that LWSN uses Lightwave's image cache setting.

I have 14 gb of memory on my home computer. When rendering Lightwave is consistently using about 2 gb on this scene so I don't think this is a low memory problem. If I can find time I will do a test on a PC to see if this is just a Mac problem.

jeric_synergy
07-08-2015, 09:55 AM
!!! Those are some serious numbers, on the bad side. WTF?

raw-m
07-08-2015, 09:59 AM
'eck!! Please report it.

lertola2
07-08-2015, 10:56 AM
Yea. I checked it out on a PC and it seems to be a general problem. I get very similar results. With the cache turned on the pc takes 50 seconds to render the scene. With the cache turend off both Lightwave and LWSN render the scene in 22 seconds. Unfortunately I can't share this scene. When I get time I will try to construct another scene that exhibits this problem so I can put in a bug report.

jwiede
07-08-2015, 12:14 PM
I am getting the same results when testing with my home computer:

Image cache set to 2048. Rendering with Lightwave: The scene loads and Lightwave takes 1.5 minutes to render each frame.

Image cache set to 512. Loading scene with Lightwave: The scene never finishes loading. About 20 image cache files are created in the ImageCache folder. Then a 450 gb file is created. Then every minute or so another 450 gb file is created and the previous 450 gb file is erased. I had to force Lightwave to quit to get this to stop.

With image cache turned off. Rendering with Lightwave: Scene renders in 20 seconds per frame.

Image cache set to 2048, 512 or off. Rendering with LWSN: Scene renders in about 15 seconds per frame. The manual says that LWSN uses Lightwave's image cache setting.

I have 14 gb of memory on my home computer. When rendering Lightwave is consistently using about 2 gb on this scene so I don't think this is a low memory problem. If I can find time I will do a test on a PC to see if this is just a Mac problem.

Agreed, that sounds more like there is some kind of bug internal to the image caching mechanism. Also, if you've set the cache to 512 (MB) and it is generating 450GB files, that sounds like additional (possibly related) pathological behavior. Interesting that LWSN appears to avoid the problem even when caching is supposedly active, that too sounds like a (different) bug, though it works out convenient in this particular case.

Worth filing, ofc.

jeric_synergy
07-08-2015, 12:35 PM
"Worth filing"= serious, almost British, understatement. --If it's repeatable, of course.

magiclight
07-10-2015, 01:12 AM
If you have more images then will fit in the cache it will render slower of course, but even if all fits it will still run slower with the cache on, and you cannot use the size given in the image editor, you have to crank it up a bit higher above that, I tried it in 2015 (win 64) but when I noticed the slowdown I gave up on that, not sure if they changed anything in there compared to older versions, but I did not see any huge files created in the cache directory.

I would guess LSWN is not using the image cache, that could be the bug...

spherical
07-10-2015, 04:07 AM
If you have more images then will fit in the cache it will render slower of course, but even if all fits it will still run slower with the cache on,

Seems like a no-win situation to me.


I would guess LSWN is not using the image cache, that could be the bug...

And that would be the "feature".

magiclight
07-10-2015, 05:43 AM
But it's strange that it works ok with older versions of LW, should be slow there also.

3dworks
07-17-2015, 02:19 PM
OMG i found out now that i reported this bug to NT in february 2013... indeed it is listed as 'OPEN'.


From: [email protected]
Date: Feb. 6, 2013, 10:14 a.m.

render speed does dramatically decrease if the option 'enable image caching' is set to ON with default settings.

reproduce the issue as following:

start layout. set the option 'enable image caching' to ON. load the scene 'benchmarbles.lws'from the new Content folder 'LightWave_11-5_Content', subfolder 'Rendering' on a multicore, multi CPU mac. now render with F9. you will see a dramatic decrease of render speed performance. see a screenshot on a 2 x 6 core macpro (2010) here with the option checked:

http://www.3dworks.com/skitch/Screen_Shot_2013-02-06_at_11.17.55-20130206-113113.png

without the option checked render performance is almost 100% on all cores.

see here

http://www.3dworks.com/skitch/Screen_Shot_2013-02-06_at_09.41.38-20130206-113206.png

see also the thread discussing this issue here: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?133355-Extreme-render-perf-issue-here-w-Mac(64)-LW-vs-Win-LW64-!

what is noteworthy is that if you switch the option to ON when a scene is already loaded, there will be no performance impact, at least in my tests.

my specs: apple mac pro v5,1 (mid 2010), 2x6 cores @2.66 ghz, radeon hd 5870, 40 gbyte ram, osx 10.8.2 mountain lion.



Staff Response
From: Deuce Bennett
Date: Feb. 18, 2013, 11:30 p.m.

I'll get this to our developers.
Thanks for the official report.

cheers and hope they are not lost in a black hole... :D

markus

shenhua
09-09-2015, 12:42 AM
@Sensei
"Compare screen-shots. 2015 has 2144.4 MB memory used, while 11.6.x has 12.8 MB memory used (on the right top of status window). "

I always thought that this Mem used part has been borked like for ages and only in 2015 they fixed it? So I wouldn't really compare the values between 2015 with older LWs. I might be wrong tho.
This observation is based on checking up some of my projects at friends place who has both 11.6 and 2015 and first thing I noticed was that he got different readouts on that mem value for same scene (And task manager and res managers all gave exactly same readings which led me to the aforementioned conclusion).