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lightscape
06-22-2015, 11:27 PM
https://www.lightwave3d.com/crossgrade_promo/?utm_source=mailer_06222015&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crossgrade_promotion

As a special thanks to the 3D community for nominating LightWave 2015 in the 3D World 2015 CG Awards, we are offering a limited time crossgrade price of $695 for all 2D and 3D software programs. Existing LightWave artists can upgrade to LightWave 2015 for the special price of $395. These special prices end July 31, 2015.

Simply submit your information below and a customer service representative will contact you with more details.

libneon
06-23-2015, 08:15 AM
https://www.lightwave3d.com/crossgrade_promo/?utm_source=mailer_06222015&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crossgrade_promotion

As a special thanks to the 3D community for nominating LightWave 2015 in the 3D World 2015 CG Awards, we are offering a limited time crossgrade price of $695 for all 2D and 3D software programs. Existing LightWave artists can upgrade to LightWave 2015 for the special price of $395. These special prices end July 31, 2015.

Simply submit your information below and a customer service representative will contact you with more details.

This is a ridiculously good deal, especially when you look at the pricing of other packages out there.

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 08:26 AM
My question is whether this also applies to charter members on the $495 upgrade deal.

Chris S. (Fez)
06-23-2015, 08:52 AM
My question is whether this also applies to charter members on the $495 upgrade deal.

Yes, the promo applies.

hrgiger
06-23-2015, 09:06 AM
My question is whether this also applies to charter members on the $495 upgrade deal.

Its pretty much across the board a discount for all upgrades. The charter member price is just a guarantee that you'll never pay more then that amount. Doesn't affect if the price goes lower.

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 09:09 AM
Yes, the promo applies.

Solid!

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 09:18 AM
Its pretty much across the board a discount for all upgrades. The charter member price is just a guarantee that you'll never pay more then that amount. Doesn't affect if the price goes lower.

That's not how I remember the terms. As I remember it (and I could be wrong) the deal was that as a charter member you'd pay the agreed rate over 5 upgrades, but once locked into that rate you'd always pay that price regardless of whether subsequent upgrade prices were higher or lower than your charter price.

This deal seems to be very special in that NT have for gone the agreement in these circumstances. I suspect to circumvent the obvious fallout that would manifest if they stuck to the original charter (as I remember it but am not 100% sure about) agreement.

hrgiger
06-23-2015, 09:28 AM
That's not how I remember the terms. As I remember it (and I could be wrong) the deal was that as a charter member you'd pay the agreed rate over 5 upgrades, but once locked into that rate you'd always pay that price regardless of whether subsequent upgrade prices were higher or lower than your charter price.

This deal seems to be very special in that NT have for gone the agreement in these circumstances. I suspect to circumvent the obvious fallout that would manifest if they stuck to the original charter (as I remember it but am not 100% sure about) agreement.

Rob clarified it when they reduced the regular upgrade price down to $495. But originally, it was just stated that yes you were locked into that price but they didn't specify what would happen if the price dropped below that(and nobody asked).

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 11:54 AM
Rob clarified it when they reduced the regular upgrade price down to $495. But originally, it was just stated that yes you were locked into that price but they didn't specify what would happen if the price dropped below that(and nobody asked).

AAhh, yes. Now I think about it, I think I remember that.

God I hate getting old.

Markc
06-23-2015, 12:00 PM
This is a nice deal, but for those of us who stay up to date, or don't need a second license, we can never benefit from these offers.
A deal on the other software products (Nevronmotion, Chronosculpt) would be nice :hey:

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 12:11 PM
I was just thinking, how glad I am that I waited to upgrade.:dance:

prometheus
06-23-2015, 12:26 PM
Tempting.... a very nice deal indeed, have to give them that..and cheers for that.

Not sure if I should jump on that, some other stuff seems more interesting...even if that might be more expensive.
And they should expand the offer until the final results of the best software update is finished, so we can choose the winner ..right :D
and that with some "just kidding" thoughts behind it.

This deal might push me to try out the discovery edition a bit more and also check out the other stuff I was interesting in a bit more, got some research work to do until july 31.

Michael

Signal to Noise
06-23-2015, 12:38 PM
When I got the email yesterday about this discount offer I thought "Yay! Maybe I'll finally upgrade from 11!". But being in Canada the converted price shows $560. Even at today's exchange rate $395 US converts to roughly $485. I submitted a query in to CS to see what they have to say. If it really is over $500 CDN I'm sadly going to have to wait yet more time.

Ideally I'd love to see another discount/bundle offer of LW upgrade + Chronosculpt and/or Octane come my way. (hint, hint!)

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 12:43 PM
But being in Canada the converted price shows $560. Even at today's exchange rate $395 US converts to roughly $485. I submitted a query in to CS to see what they have to say. If it really is over $500 CDN I'm sadly going to have to wait yet more time.

Is there a sales tax of some kind included in that $560 CAD?

QB White
06-23-2015, 12:55 PM
Just bought my upgrade. Will install it soon along with the latest version of Butterfly Net Render. LightWave 11.6.3 and BNR 5.15 for a little longer while on a few projects. Thank you.

Signal to Noise
06-23-2015, 03:26 PM
Is there a sales tax of some kind included in that $560 CAD?

Don't think so, nor should there be. That price shows up as default. I missed the part about "contacting" CS with pertinent information (including a software screen capture???) for the offer. Perhaps the discount is applied once CS receives that info. I'll provide the info and will see.

Shabazzy
06-23-2015, 03:35 PM
Don't think so, nor should there be. That price shows up as default. I missed the part about "contacting" CS with pertinent information for the offer. Perhaps the discount is applied once CS receives that info. I've filled in the info and will see.

Strange. I did the maths and it seems that there's around a 15% increase on top of the $485. I wonder where that came from?

Oldcode
06-24-2015, 12:24 PM
Hey everybody,

I'm thinking about upgrading myself, this is a good deal but money is tight. Just bought Substance Painter and that kind of killed my toy fund for a while. I usually like to wait on the upgrades unless they have something that I just have to have. So far, I've not heard much that's made me want to slap down my C-Card. I've had Lightwave since V7.5, got 8, then 9, but skipped 10. Most of the reviews at the time said that if you had 8, it was a good upgrade, but if you have 9, don't bother because there was not very much that was new.

So, my question is, what are the big differences between 11.6.3 and 2015?

I've had Lightwave for many years and done a lot of fiddling, but I'm not a professional and am, truthfully, not very good at Lightwave. I'd consider myself an advanced beginner user, if that makes any sense.

Any insight from people who've used it would be really helpful. I only bought 11 because of the Instancer, VPR, Spline Control, and somewhat for Bullet but have not had much luck with it honestly.

Thanks in advance,

hrgiger
06-24-2015, 01:34 PM
Oldcode, if you use dynamics at all, the new constraints in 2015 are a nice addition. Being able to render subpatch wireframes directly in LW have been nice for me since most of my work is modeling (used to have to bother with a plugin to do this). If you do animation at all, the new dynamic parenter is much more intuitive and the Genoma rigging system has been updated as well. A decent list of workflow improvements were also added. And then a new match perspective tool was added that helps compositing items against background plates. Overall, 2015 is not a large feature update, it just depends on if you have any need any of the improvements or not. You just have to decide if saving $100 now is worth it or if the next upgrade might be more appealing to you and paying possibly more for it.

jwiede
06-24-2015, 01:54 PM
Any insight from people who've used it would be really helpful. I only bought 11 because of the Instancer, VPR, Spline Control, and somewhat for Bullet but have not had much luck with it honestly.

Having a full set of constraints in Bullet makes complex dynamics situations viable which weren't even practical before, so it is possible the new constraints might solve the problems you were having in past with Bullet. If you can better describe what you were trying to do with Bullet in v11, and what problems you were encountering, folks here can tell whether or not the new constraints would help with your needs/issues.

Realistically, the best way for you to judge whether LW2015 offers enough useful benefits to merit upgrading would be for you to install the trial and see for yourself. That's the only real way to see whether the new features and workflow improvements really benefit you or not. Whether you get the answers here you seek or not, you should definitely run the trial through its paces as well.

Oldcode
06-25-2015, 11:25 AM
Thanks guys. I'm looking at the promos, some You Tube stuff, and I just downloaded the demo. Not sure how much time I'll have to play with it, but some of the new features do seem cool. The Bone Dynamics looks very interesting. That shot in the promo with the octopus looks like it uses the kind of technique that might help with something I'm trying to do. I tried doing it with Bullet, but it did not work.

I've got a shot of a person walking through a jungle. What I'd really like is to use a vine model I have and have vines hanging down. As the person walks through, they need to use their arms to push the vines out of the way, and have the vines swing naturally as the person passes.

Ryan Royel (is that right) did a tutorial about using something already in 11.6.3 that should have worked to do something like that, but the vines kept on passing through the person's body and I could never figure out way.

Anyway, there's a few things in the promo that they listed that I have no idea what they do. When I get home, I'll list them here and see if anybody knows what they are.

Thanks again,

Cheers!

Oldcode
06-25-2015, 05:51 PM
Okay guys...

At the risk of showing off just incredibly ignorant I am after fiddling with Lightwave since V7.5, here's a list things in the 2015 promo that I'm not sure of. I'd tried to google them, but have not really gotten a straight answer.

What is Fall Off?

Morph Mode Hud?

Improved Slider Drawing?

Intersecting Edges? Video is unclear.

Patch Boarders Edges? Same here..

Thanks in advance,

hrgiger
06-25-2015, 07:50 PM
Okay guys...

At the risk of showing off just incredibly ignorant I am after fiddling with Lightwave since V7.5, here's a list things in the 2015 promo that I'm not sure of. I'd tried to google them, but have not really gotten a straight answer.

What is Fall Off?

Morph Mode Hud?

Improved Slider Drawing?

Intersecting Edges? Video is unclear.

Patch Boarders Edges? Same here..

Thanks in advance,

Fall off is an area of effect that a tool in modeler has to act upon components like points, edges, or polygons. They are user defined.

Morph Mode HUD is a new display that lets users know when they are in morph mode and when they are in base mode so they don't make unintentional changes in either.

Not sure about the improved slider drawing, haven't used those yet in 2015.

Intersecting edges means it will draw a cell shaded edge(line) where two objects are intersecting.

Patch borders means that you can render wireframes on subpatched objects. Previously, this could only be done with the help of a plugin.

Signal to Noise
06-25-2015, 11:18 PM
After some email exchanges with Newtek CS... That upgrade price of $560 CDN I see is because of my Post-Charter membership. If I am willing to give up post-charter I can get this upgrade deal for $395 US ($???? CDN) but I'm not sure what to do in this case. Kind of strange way of offering deals I suppose.

spherical
06-25-2015, 11:50 PM
According to Google's currency converter, the current market is $487.47 CDN.

lightscape
06-26-2015, 12:59 AM
After some email exchanges with Newtek CS... That upgrade price of $560 CDN I see is because of my Post-Charter membership. If I am willing to give up post-charter I can get this upgrade deal for $395 US ($???? CDN) but I'm not sure what to do in this case. Kind of strange way of offering deals I suppose.

I had a similar issue. I have multiple seats. I wanted to upgrade one of my licenses to that octane lightwave bundle they had because one octane license is not enough.
Turns out that seat was a charter seat which guarantees the upgrade price to stay the same for 5 upgrades from lw 10. It has to be 5 upgrades without skipping a version btw.
And they explicitly said that they don't combine promo so if I get the octane lightwave, I lose the charter deal.
Well since lw 2015 is out there's only 2 or 3 more guaranteed pricing for charter members. Not sure if lw 10 counts actually.

Do the math which one is better for you.

Oldcode
06-26-2015, 07:15 AM
Thanks Giger,

That helps. What I'm going to do is wait a bit. We've got until the end of July, so there's a little time. I may be getting a promotion at my job soon so if I get it before the deadline, it's time to celebrate!!! :D

If not, I may just bite the bullet on the 31st anyway. I really want the bond dynamics. :)


Fall off is an area of effect that a tool in modeler has to act upon components like points, edges, or polygons. They are user defined.

Morph Mode HUD is a new display that lets users know when they are in morph mode and when they are in base mode so they don't make unintentional changes in either.

Not sure about the improved slider drawing, haven't used those yet in 2015.

Intersecting edges means it will draw a cell shaded edge(line) where two objects are intersecting.

Patch borders means that you can render wireframes on subpatched objects. Previously, this could only be done with the help of a plugin.

prometheus
06-26-2015, 08:08 AM
Thanks Giger,

That helps. What I'm going to do is wait a bit. We've got until the end of July, so there's a little time. I may be getting a promotion at my job soon so if I get it before the deadline, it's time to celebrate!!! :D

If not, I may just bite the bullet on the 31st anyway. I really want the bond dynamics. :)

You do have bone dynamics with ikbooster in lightwave previous versions, though it might be more harder to use or limited to old hard dynamics.
The bullet dynamics though...might be much easier to get realistic results and working with all the new bullet stuff as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_oKesgLM4

prometheus
06-26-2015, 08:10 AM
[QUOTE=prometheus;1435500]You do have bone dynamics with ikbooster in lightwave previous versions, though it might be more harder to use or limited to old hard dynamics.
The bullet dynamics though...might be much easier to get realistic results and working with all the new bullet stuff as well.

and this one...with the multicam feature that is also new in 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhOTDxoylII

roboman
06-26-2015, 09:04 AM
After some email exchanges with Newtek CS... That upgrade price of $560 CDN I see is because of my Post-Charter membership. If I am willing to give up post-charter I can get this upgrade deal for $395 US ($???? CDN) but I'm not sure what to do in this case. Kind of strange way of offering deals I suppose.

Wow. I had just gotten over being annoyed at Newtek, saw that ad and was going to buy my self a birthday present in July. So Newtek killed sold me core and then killed it before letting me download it. Instead of giving me my money back they "give" me a discount price on the next several ver of lightwave. So then they lower the price for every one to the price I was 'given' instead of getting the product I paid for. Now, just as I get done being annoyed about that I find out if I buy their product for the price they are selling it to every one else they will screw me out of any future discount I was given because of a product I paid for but they never delivered to me.

I like the software, but it feels like going into the finance office of a used car dealer every time the money side of things comes up. So the discount I was given in exchange for a product I paid for never being delivered is going to cost me more or I have to give up any CHANCE of getting that discount if the price goes up. Every time I get ready to pay it just seems like a screwing gets thrown in. It's not even the price, it's a deal either way. It's just the feeling of getting screwed for an extra nickle you would have paid in the first place.

lightscape
06-26-2015, 09:19 AM
Wow. I had just gotten over being annoyed at Newtek, saw that ad and was going to buy my self a birthday present in July. So Newtek killed sold me core and then killed it before letting me download it. Instead of giving me my money back they "give" me a discount price on the next several ver of lightwave. So then they lower the price for every one to the price I was 'given' instead of getting the product I paid for. Now, just as I get done being annoyed about that I find out if I buy their product for the price they are selling it to every one else they will screw me out of any future discount I was given because of a product I paid for but they never delivered to me.

I like the software, but it feels like going into the finance office of a used car dealer every time the money side of things comes up. So the discount I was given in exchange for a product I paid for never being delivered is going to cost me more or I have to give up any CHANCE of getting that discount if the price goes up. Every time I get ready to pay it just seems like a screwing gets thrown in. It's not even the price, it's a deal either way. It's just the feeling of getting screwed for an extra nickle you would have paid in the first place.

You're welcome to buy into autodesk rental or cinema4d's higher prices or modo 901s new price $1800 that adds the cost of meshfusion whether you HAVE IT or NOT.

Be realistic. No other company has given a guaranteed fixed price for the next 5 releases of their software in this kind of economy.
If you're not a charter member then skip a few upgrades wait if your work doesn't require the new tools.
You're also not penalized for skipping unlike other companies.

erikals
06-26-2015, 10:41 AM
there's no better paid 3D deal than LightWave on the market...

(modeling / animating / rendering)

i'll keep being vocal about things i miss in LightWave, but hell if i will complain about the cost (!)

Tranimatronic
06-26-2015, 11:02 AM
They got me slightly interested with the promo price, but the whole "give up your charter to upgrade" makes me think "give up on lightwave"
To me, this is a laclustre upgrade. Advertising 'slider improvements' on a QT based app doesnt make any sense to me. Chronosculpt and Nevron seem dead in the water.
Gonna keep my money until I see something that is of value (to me)

Newtek, if you are listening and want customer feedback, I for one am not interested in Lightwave2015's features and would rather lose my charter membership and spend my money on something else.
I would rather have fixed hypervoxels and improved deformers. I would like animateable weight maps. Animation layers. A cache node that can access the last frame's values. A node editor for every stage in the deformation pipeline (before bones, after bones etc etc). I would like to be able to apply 'lazy points' to something that already has a deformer attached to it. That kind of stuff

bobakabob
06-26-2015, 11:05 AM
there's no better paid 3D deal than LightWave on the market...

(modeling / animating / rendering)

i'll keep being vocal about things i miss in LightWave, but hell if i will complain about the cost (!)

Well said!

Oldcode
06-26-2015, 11:39 AM
Hey Prometheus,

Thanks for the info. I have actually tried the IKBooster. Ryan Royal made a good tutorial on You Tube for IK Booster and it can do some amazing things, but the character model I was trying to use with it does not seem to want to work. My IKBoosted object interacts with my character, but only partly so. I think its because the character model is very high poly and polygons are too small. I'll keep trying.





You do have bone dynamics with ikbooster in lightwave previous versions, though it might be more harder to use or limited to old hard dynamics.
The bullet dynamics though...might be much easier to get realistic results and working with all the new bullet stuff as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap_oKesgLM4

bazsa73
06-26-2015, 12:18 PM
Let's get grudged!

spherical
06-26-2015, 03:39 PM
After some email exchanges with Newtek CS... That upgrade price of $560 CDN I see is because of my Post-Charter membership. If I am willing to give up post-charter I can get this upgrade deal for $395 US ($???? CDN) but I'm not sure what to do in this case. Kind of strange way of offering deals I suppose.

Just read a response to this down the page. Read this yesterday but was preoccupied, so didn't grok the whole concept. Uhhhh, what am I missing, here? I understood that the Charter/Post-charter deal meant that those qualified would never pay more than their respective tier price. If deals came along that lowered the price to or below a particular tier, which happened recently, and a user took advantage of it, it didn't invalidate their Charter. Now it does? Or is this yet another wrinkle in the original deal that no one knew about?

If the above is true, I would suggest that NewTek be forthright and magnanimous about this and just allow Charter/Post-charter users to take advantage of the special without penalty. Surely, there can't be all THAT many in this situation that it would break the bank. The upside is Good PR/CS.

Shabazzy
06-26-2015, 04:11 PM
Well, I said earlier in this thread that I wondered if this deal extended to Charter/Post Charter members and now I have my answer.

I too sent an email to NT regarding our eligibility for this offer and I too received the response that basically said "if you want this deal, you'll have to lose the membership discount dealio because this current offer cannot be an added discount to your existing discount".

So, it's just as I thought originally. Being a charter/post charter member means being locked into a fixed price over 5 upgrades as stated in the original agreement.

So as I see it, even though this current offer is a fantastic one, what's the likelihood that it'll be repeated over the next two upgrades? Or even during the lifetime of LW2015 once this deal ends?

At least I know that as a post charter member I'm guaranteed not to pay the normal upgrade price for the next to upgrades and that's something I can live with.

As I see it, NT are just sticking to the terms of the original deal and you can't blame them for doing that.

Which do you want? Long term discounts? Or a great, once in a blue moon one?

You decide.

prometheus
06-26-2015, 04:55 PM
My final price would be 493.75$ that is because of the vat at 25% of the 395$ offer.

I did buy in to lw 9.6 and upgraded through to 10 and the core membership, and 11.6.3 but stopped there because of the long time neglectance of hypervoxels..(at that time I made it clear to myself, If I wouldn see any changes in voxels, no more upgrades for a while) and
because of too many bugs and the 2015 release did not have that much that I wanted..well what it has is good sure, but it was a bit thin for what I had expected in my opinion.

Will have to take a serious look at it though, need some time with the update demos and see how it works now with bugs etc, would be nice to get some insight on what the lw group is working on as well for the next releases.

Also some questions around the forum on goz compability, turbulenceFD compability etc to clear out.

Chris S. (Fez)
06-26-2015, 06:07 PM
Yeah. I thought I was up to date...but did apparently lose my Core upgrade early-bird special somewhere along the way so the $395 was not for everyone.

Apologies for the misinformation.

In any case, I am enjoying 2015 and highly recommend upgrading. VPR is super speedy and not a single crash in 2 days of hard use.

roboman
06-26-2015, 09:39 PM
You're welcome to buy into autodesk rental or cinema4d's higher prices or modo 901s new price $1800 that adds the cost of meshfusion whether you HAVE IT or NOT.

Be realistic. No other company has given a guaranteed fixed price for the next 5 releases of their software in this kind of economy.
If you're not a charter member then skip a few upgrades wait if your work doesn't require the new tools.
You're also not penalized for skipping unlike other companies.

Well I've got an older ver of Max, Blender and a few Cad and Cam programs.

"Given a guaranteed fixed price for the next 5 releases" Wow, I forgot, that they just out of the blue, they gave that to me. Wait they didn't. I got that because I paid to be part of the Core beta/alpha/pre-release/pre-order thing. I NEVER GOT THE SOFTWARE. I'm not talking the finished Core software, I never got any of the Core software ever. I never got an offer to get my money back. All I got was a promise of this fixed price that was so much lower then the normal price. So I wasn't GIVEN the discount, I PAID for it, but not by choice.

So ya, skip an up grade, loose what I paid for. Do the upgrade, pay extra for it. Take the discount and just live with Newtek not delivering what I bought and giving me something of little or no worth in exchange.
So your points:
1)a guaranteed fixed price isn't a big deal when it's higher then the price of the product
2)IF you are not a charter member, but if you are, and yes I am a post-charter member.....
3)but I do get penalized, I loose my fixed price guarantee that I paid for. Although that does seem to be worth less then zero, since it will actually cost me more money.

So yes to your other point. I can pay more, use old software, use free software or just live with the way Newtek does business

erikals
06-27-2015, 02:06 AM
So yes to your other point. I can pay more, use old software, use free software or just live with the way Newtek does business

complaining about LightWave cost is just strange i think, when comparing LightWave to other paid 3D software.

erikals
06-27-2015, 02:13 AM
My final price would be 493.75$ that is because of the vat at 25% of the 395$ offer.

would Liberty3D fix this?
i read some time back they cut the Vat... ...not sure if they still do...

spherical
06-27-2015, 03:13 AM
complaining about LightWave cost is just strange i think, when comparing LightWave to other paid 3D software.

Perhaps. But I think you're missing the point.

roboman
06-27-2015, 03:37 AM
.

Wickedpup
06-27-2015, 05:08 AM
complaining about LightWave cost is just strange i think, when comparing LightWave to other paid 3D software.
I don't think he is complaining about cost....I think he is complaining about being rear-ended whichever way he bends. That is at least the gist of it, I believe..... 8~

erikals
06-27-2015, 05:14 AM
i know, but in the end it's all about cost, no?

after all, any software company's marketing / direction is always going to be "surprising"

(adobe / autodesk / newtek / modo / messiah)

Shabazzy
06-27-2015, 07:05 AM
Well I've got an older ver of Max, Blender and a few Cad and Cam programs.

"Given a guaranteed fixed price for the next 5 releases" Wow, I forgot, that they just out of the blue, they gave that to me. Wait they didn't. I got that because I paid to be part of the Core beta/alpha/pre-release/pre-order thing. I NEVER GOT THE SOFTWARE. I'm not talking the finished Core software, I never got any of the Core software ever. I never got an offer to get my money back. All I got was a promise of this fixed price that was so much lower then the normal price. So I wasn't GIVEN the discount, I PAID for it, but not by choice.

So ya, skip an up grade, loose what I paid for. Do the upgrade, pay extra for it. Take the discount and just live with Newtek not delivering what I bought and giving me something of little or no worth in exchange.
So your points:
1)a guaranteed fixed price isn't a big deal when it's higher then the price of the product
2)IF you are not a charter member, but if you are, and yes I am a post-charter member.....
3)but I do get penalized, I loose my fixed price guarantee that I paid for. Although that does seem to be worth less then zero, since it will actually cost me more money.

So yes to your other point. I can pay more, use old software, use free software or just live with the way Newtek does business

And there, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of history being re-written.

The facts of what actually happened regarding the whole deal are these:

Feburary 4, 2009, NewTek announces the HardCore program, promising a unified 3D app with a brand new architecture, more flexible, bulletproof and performance-driven, Python scripting, instancing, Collada, brush modifier, lattice deformation, parametric modeling, VPR, Bullet Dynamics and more.
NewTek invites users to get in on the ground floor by offering an annually subscribed HardCore membership and to receive LightWave Core on it's release in Q4 2009.
Up until 31 March 2009, LightWave 9 users can buy in to the HardCore program as a charter member for $395 p/a.
From 1 April 2009 LightWave 9 users can buy in to the HardCore program as a post charter member for $495 p/a.
Users of LightWave 3D prior to LightWave 9 can upgrade to LightWave 9 at $495 and receive the HardCore membership as part of their purchase.
New purchases of LightWave 9 priced at $895 will receive the HardCore membership as part of their purchase.
Up until 31st March 2009, users of other 3D apps can buy in to the HardCore program as a 'Companion Upgrade' for $595 p/a.
2010, NewTek cancels the LightWave Core unified app and announces a return to LightWave's dual app system.
NewTek states that LightWave Core as a unified app is 'no longer being pursued, but the Core technologies will be integrated into LW's dual app system with the intent of producing a unified app in the future'.
NT continue to offer HardCore membership but alter membership benefits by dropping the annual fee and allowing users to receive (among other things) 5 future upgrades of LW as part of their membership. To renew the HardCore membership you no longer have to pay annually, simply buy the next 5 new releases at the rate you originally paid when you joined the HardCore program.
Much discontent from users who wanted Core as a unified app and felt they didn't get what was advertised by NewTek.
30th Dec 2010, NewTek release LightWave 10 (incorporting some Core technologies) for free to HardCore members.
Some members not impressed and demand refund of membership.
23rd June 2011, NewTek officially cancels the HardCore program.
29th July 2011, NewTek release LightWave 10.1.
NewTek resists refunds but eventually agrees to refund memberships to any HardCore member who request one before the release of LW11.
20th Feb 2012, LW 11 gets released incorporating yet more Core technologies.
LW 2015 gets released incorporating more Core technologies.


This is what happened and the fact that you feel the way you do about your dealing with NT is very unfortunate, but although NT have made a lot of mistakes along the way, I think it's unfair to imply that they have ripped you off.

They came up with a deal, people paid their money, the deal didn't pan out, people were offered a new deal, some took it, some didn't. But I feel NT made every effort to comply with the wishes of it's users without sacrificing too much of their own interests and I don't think they should be persecuted for that. They are a business afterall.

So yes, you were given a fixed price guarantee for 5 releases as part of your membership.

Yes, you have received Core technologies in subsequent LightWave releases as of version 10.

Yes, NT did concede on refunding users and the fact you didn't take it up isn't their fault.

And yes, you always have a choice.

Cageman
06-27-2015, 07:22 AM
Perhaps. But I think you're missing the point.

What point is that?

I am a charter member; I payed $395 to join the CORE thing. It is true that I never got CORE, but I did get LW10.x (lackluster, yes). But, since I am a charater member, I payed $395 for LW11.x and $395 for LW2015. Before that, I payed $495 for LW8.x (student lic) and another $395 for going from "student to pro" for LW9.x.

So, to me, what erikals say is very true.

hrgiger
06-27-2015, 07:30 AM
Shabazz is correct. But if you don't want to read all the details it can be summed up like this.

people bought CORE. They cancelled core and delivered lw 10 instead. For those not satisfied, you got a refund, for those that kept their license you got a price lock for the next 5 upgrades of LW starting with LW 11. I have a lot of crits of how NT has handled Lightwave Development but price and value is not one of them.

prometheus
06-27-2015, 08:26 AM
would Liberty3D fix this?
i read some time back they cut the Vat... ...not sure if they still do...

nothing there yet, if they decide to do it, it may probably take a couple of days to get that deal and marketing going, would be nice...you get this price of 395, and that is what you think of...then you wake up to another reality :) and the offer donīt sound that nice as it first did.

itīs like getting served a nice soup, and your drewling, then suddenly theres a flie in the soup.

erikals
06-27-2015, 08:39 AM
http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/biggrin.gif well, i think the fly story is pushing it...
http://orig14.deviantart.net/537f/f/2006/326/a/3/fly_swatter_by_death_on_wings.gif

but i see what you mean... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

roboman
06-27-2015, 08:48 AM
And there, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of history being re-written.
......
This is what happened and the fact that you feel the way you do about your dealing with NT is very unfortunate, but although NT have made a lot of mistakes along the way, I think it's unfair to imply that they have ripped you off.

They came up with a deal, people paid their money, the deal didn't pan out, people were offered a new deal, some took it, some didn't. But I feel NT made every effort to comply with the wishes of it's users without sacrificing too much of their own interests and I don't think they should be persecuted for that. They are a business afterall.

So yes, you were given a fixed price guarantee for 5 releases as part of your membership.

Yes, you have received Core technologies in subsequent LightWave releases as of version 10.

Yes, NT did concede on refunding users and the fact you didn't take it up isn't their fault.

And yes, you always have a choice.

There was a point where you could upgrade to 9, get the free upgrade to the soon to be released 10 and pay extra to get into core. It was at the end of 9's life cycle. There were problems on Newteks side and I didn't push very hard. It took several months to get my account straightened out so I could download 9 and get the dongle code to work. I contacted them a couple times about core and was finely told it was dead and I could no longer download it. I ask about a refund, was told there is none, was told about the discount and the free ver 10, that wasn't such a deal since it was already part of the deal for buying 9 just before the release of 10. Then some time later I see an ad for 11, I come to the forums and see the offer for a refund. I check and am informed the offer has expired.

Yes, I understand the whole core thing was a not finished product that stood a chance of never happening and that the money I spent was a gamble. I knew I was paying for what was an alpha or early beta of something that might never happen. But I never even got that. Yes I got the discount on 11 and was going to get a discount on 4 more upgrades, so I wasn't happy but wasn't to upset and understand Newtek needs to make money, core didn't work out, they lost lots of time and money, developers and customers had left. I understand they took a hit on a failed gamble. At this point I'm not even very unhappy that my next 4 fixed prices are probably worth nothing, since the price of Lightwave isn't that likely to go up a lot any time soon. The insistence that I need to give them $100 over their selling price to keep something they gave me to make up for their not delivering, that just pisses me off. Yes, Lightwave is a good price, Yes, the fixed price thing is very likely of no monetary value for the next releases. It's just the fact that it was given out to placate people because they failed to deliver and now they want an extra $100 from their customers to keep it, even though it's very likely worthless. Seems petty on my part and dumb on theirs :)

prometheus
06-27-2015, 08:49 AM
http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/biggrin.gif well, i think the fly story is pushing it...
http://orig14.deviantart.net/537f/f/2006/326/a/3/fly_swatter_by_death_on_wings.gif

but i see what you mean... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

of course...one should of course Always be aware of the vat, thatīs how it is and thatīs not for the lightwave group to handle.
it would look better perhaps if companies made the offer with the vat included directly in the offer, but that is under dynamic changes and not really possible(unless you are liberty3d) and it is after all calculated for when checking the account.

Shabazzy
06-27-2015, 09:25 AM
At this point I'm not even very unhappy that my next 4 fixed prices are probably worth nothing, since the price of Lightwave isn't that likely to go up a lot any time soon. The insistence that I need to give them $100 over their selling price to keep something they gave me to make up for their not delivering, that just pisses me off. Yes, Lightwave is a good price, Yes, the fixed price thing is very likely of no monetary value for the next releases. It's just the fact that it was given out to placate people because they failed to deliver and now they want an extra $100 from their customers to keep it, even though it's very likely worthless. Seems petty on my part and dumb on theirs :)

You do realise that you're not being forced to stay as a HardCORE member don't you? If you want out all you need to do at this point is just contact NT customer services and tell them you want out. Job done. No penalties whatsoever.

If you feel that the HardCORE membership discount isn't worth anything, then you won't mind paying the full upgrade prices when future releases arrive. This would be especially advantageous to you as you believe they will be permanently priced lower than a post-charter member's price.

The current offer of $395 isn't likely to be repeated any time too soon after the expiry date has been met, but if you believe this is the new price of all future upgrades, then do yourself a favour and opt out of the HardCORE membership and take advantage of their new pricing structure that you believe they have. They'll be very happy to oblige.

But if you do opt out and you're wrong about the upgrade price being $395 for new releases, then I think you'll have learned the hard way the real value of the HardCORE membership. But then again, you probably won't.

It's fair to say that post charter members will feel cheated by this current offer, but the reality is that businesses do this all the time. Mobile/Cellphone companies are always creating new deals to entice new customers. Cable tv companies also do this, ISP's, the list goes on, all of them come up with new deals that mean once you're signed up to them as a customer and they've provided the deal they offered you, will not mean you are automatically entitled to any future better deals.

NewTek are no different to any other business that want to do business.

Snosrap
06-27-2015, 01:33 PM
This is a good offer. I suppose some will always feel slighted in some way. BTW, where are we at as far as how many $395 Hardcore upgrades we have left?

Shabazzy
06-27-2015, 02:14 PM
BTW, where are we at as far as how many $395 Hardcore upgrades we have left?

Since LW10 wasn't included as part of the amended terms (and given free anyway), paid upgrades for Charter/Post Charter members began with LW11. So LW2015 will make the second paid upgrade to be released from LW3DG, therefore if you have already purchased LW2015 you would have three upgrades remaining.

For your consideration:

Jim Plant's LightWave 10/HardCORE pricing forum post (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?110783-LightWave-10-HardCORE-pricing&p=1039483&viewfull=1#post1039483)

Snosrap
06-27-2015, 06:10 PM
Since LW10 wasn't included as part of the amended terms (and given free anyway), paid upgrades for Charter/Post Charter members began with LW11. So LW2015 will make the second paid upgrade to be released from LW3DG, therefore if you have already purchased LW2015 you would have three upgrades remaining.

For your consideration:

Jim Plant's LightWave 10/HardCORE pricing forum post (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?110783-LightWave-10-HardCORE-pricing&p=1039483&viewfull=1#post1039483)

Thanks. I better upgrade to 2015 then as this would only be the second one of the 5 - right?

erikals
06-28-2015, 03:13 AM
for those that kept their license you got a price lock for the next 5 upgrades of LW starting with LW 11. I have a lot of crits of how NT has handled Lightwave Development but price and value is not one of them.

so i got 4 more... nice... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

hrgiger
06-28-2015, 07:04 AM
so i got 4 more... nice... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

Well only if you don't skip 2015. In which case you will only have 3 more.

Shabazzy
06-28-2015, 04:23 PM
Thanks. I better upgrade to 2015 then as this would only be the second one of the 5 - right?

Absolutely correct.

Shabazzy
06-28-2015, 04:27 PM
Well only if you don't skip 2015. In which case you will only have 3 more.

Not quite. Any upgrades that are skipped, will forfeit your HardCORE membership and reverts you back to paying the normal upgrade prices.

hrgiger
06-28-2015, 04:49 PM
Not quite. Any upgrades that are skipped, will forfeit your HardCORE membership and reverts you back to paying the normal upgrade prices.

Isn't that what I said? Starting with LW 11, you can't skip a version if you want to keep your pricing.

Shabazzy
06-29-2015, 03:39 AM
Isn't that what I said? Starting with LW 11, you can't skip a version if you want to keep your pricing.

Maybe I misread your post. But by you saying 'In which case you will only have 3 more' it implied to me that you were saying to Erikals' statement of "so I got 4 more... nice...", that if he skipped LW2015 he wouldn't have 4 left, he'd have 3 left.

My apologies if that's not what you meant.

lightscape
06-29-2015, 05:54 AM
Just read a response to this down the page. Read this yesterday but was preoccupied, so didn't grok the whole concept. Uhhhh, what am I missing, here? I understood that the Charter/Post-charter deal meant that those qualified would never pay more than their respective tier price. If deals came along that lowered the price to or below a particular tier, which happened recently, and a user took advantage of it, it didn't invalidate their Charter. Now it does? Or is this yet another wrinkle in the original deal that no one knew about?

If the above is true, I would suggest that NewTek be forthright and magnanimous about this and just allow Charter/Post-charter users to take advantage of the special without penalty. Surely, there can't be all THAT many in this situation that it would break the bank. The upside is Good PR/CS.

That doesn't make sense. Ofcourse if you try to avail of one promo the other is invalidated or not applicable.
That's like saying I have a 25% discount on this store for being a member for a year on any purchase, the store offered a special 50% off for non-members for a limited time. That doesn't make it 75% off for you.
I tried to buy the octane lightwave promo but I was informed that that particular license is charter so even without CS telling me, I know these deals can't be added up.
I'd rather use the charter advantage because I wasn't desperate for a second license of octane.

As for feeling ripped off with core. That's being too entitled. Let it go its been years. There was a chance for a refund or 5 fixed price upgrades, if you didn't ask your options why didn't you?

So lightwave 10 wasn't included in the 5 upgrades? I thought it was.

hrgiger
06-29-2015, 09:34 AM
No worries Shabazzy.

No, the five eligible discounted upgrades started with LW 11 because the deal was for those who had already paid for LW10/CORE. AND you have to buy each one to keep the pricing deal. If you skip even one, you're back to paying for whatever the regular upgrade price is when you do decide to upgrade. And there's no time limit, you just have to get the current version before the next version comes out. Previously, you only had a month or two after a new version came out to upgrade.

spherical
06-29-2015, 03:37 PM
That doesn't make it 75% off for you.
I tried to buy the octane lightwave promo but I was informed that that particular license is charter so even without CS telling me, I know these deals can't be added up.

[SIGH]. I'm not saying that they are ADDED UP! Gosh..... and astounding....