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Niko3D
06-13-2015, 12:58 PM
Hi guys,

I found, from my guru 3DsMax friend, that Vray through Vray Distribute render doesn't need to calculate the GI before to launch the animation.
I'm talking about ArchiViz...and simple animation without special effects...just camera path, fixed sun...very basic...

So you can create your camera path, setup VRay and...let's go!...is it possible????
You know better than me instead on LW...you have to calculate the GI with Bake Scene on one machine only and later to send the animation to the RenderFarm, this is my case for example.
I have to create a basic animation almost one for week...and sometime it happens they are very long 4/5 mins...and calculate the GI is veeeery long, but I don't have any chance. Because I can't to to launch the GI to the Farm.

My question is...Can only Vray to do that or LW is the only one that has to calculate the GI before?
Because everytime I have to spend a lot of time only for this and often it's very annoying...

What do you think?
With Octane?Or Cinema 4D with Vray or Octane what happens?

Thanks
Nico

lightscape
06-13-2015, 10:39 PM
That depends on the scene and the amount of gi artifacts your friend can accept for his work. Vray has consistent gi even without baking but it still does have gi artifacts if you don't bake in some scenes. 1st pass Irridiance cache and 2nd pass bruteforce for vray is good for animation but is a bit slow.
With lightwave you can go with montecarlo interpolated which is slower than vray but good for animated scenes.
But for scenes with only camera just bake the gi every 10-20 nth frames at 50% size then use that gi cache when you render your animation.

Niko3D
06-14-2015, 05:09 AM
That depends on the scene and the amount of gi artifacts your friend can accept for his work. Vray has consistent gi even without baking but it still does have gi artifacts if you don't bake in some scenes. 1st pass Irridiance cache and 2nd pass bruteforce for vray is good for animation but is a bit slow.
With lightwave you can go with montecarlo interpolated which is slower than vray but good for animated scenes.
But for scenes with only camera just bake the gi every 10-20 nth frames at 50% size then use that gi cache when you render your animation.

Interesting!I'm not an expert in VRay and I found this very weird...
Usually, for animation I use Final Gather...do you suggest me to use Montecarlo instead?

My usual process is:
Bake the GI I put Automatic 20 nth frames at 50/75% size, check Animation and Save After Each Frame. When it's finished I put Locked and save the scene. Is it Right?
Send the job to the farm...

Sorry for my previous post...of course Octane is different...;)..and for this boring thread...

Thank you

Lewis
06-14-2015, 12:14 PM
In octane there is no need for any kind of baking, it's unbiased and has no GI artefacts/leaks and such issues like with interpolation. But for interior animation PT or PMC wiht octane you need serious power i.e. dozens of GPUs. For Exteriors it's very fast and easy.

lardbros
06-14-2015, 02:14 PM
Instead of baking to GI cache, I tend to use Monte Carlo, with Interpolated off. Then use the Adaptive Sampling to clean the grain up.
If you set the rays per evaluation as low between 1-5. Then leave the Adaptive Sampling to clean it up... And set that to something like 128 maximum samples.

I use these settings for GI renders sent to our render farm. It may seem slow, using brute force, but I've never encountered any glitching or flickering, and it remains stable no matter what materials or nodes are used.

Lewis
06-14-2015, 02:32 PM
Instead of baking to GI cache, I tend to use Monte Carlo, with Interpolated off. Then use the Adaptive Sampling to clean the grain up.
If you set the rays per evaluation as low between 1-5. Then leave the Adaptive Sampling to clean it up... And set that to something like 128 maximum samples.

I use these settings for GI renders sent to our render farm. It may seem slow, using brute force, but I've never encountered any glitching or flickering, and it remains stable no matter what materials or nodes are used.

Sure that's an option and MonteCarlo Brute force will always work and be flicker free no doubt there, but rendertimes are killer for Arch-viz. Even 128 passes often won't be enough.

lardbros
06-14-2015, 02:57 PM
Yeah, you're right Lewis... I had forgotten during my response that this was for ArchViz work.
The Adaptive Sampling will need to be cranked way higher than that, and it will be slow.
A guy called Artur was doing some interesting tests using GI and caching... I'll try and find his tests, as they surprised me, his results were quick and very nice!

Niko3D
06-15-2015, 04:35 AM
In octane there is no need for any kind of baking, it's unbiased and has no GI artefacts/leaks and such issues like with interpolation. But for interior animation PT or PMC wiht octane you need serious power i.e. dozens of GPUs. For Exteriors it's very fast and easy.

Hi Lewis,

Sorry, it's my mistake about Octane in my previous post...I know is unbiased and as others Render engine unbiased, it has not any problems with flickering, Cache GI ect...
But thank you for the explanation!;)

Niko3D
06-15-2015, 04:38 AM
Yeah, you're right Lewis... I had forgotten during my response that this was for ArchViz work.
The Adaptive Sampling will need to be cranked way higher than that, and it will be slow.
A guy called Artur was doing some interesting tests using GI and caching... I'll try and find his tests, as they surprised me, his results were quick and very nice!

Hi Lardbros,
Yes...I'm talking just about ArchiViz...and MC No interpolated is very cool...but it kill my timing (unfortunately).
Anyway...who is it this guy called Artur? It seems very interesting!

Niko3D
06-15-2015, 05:35 AM
I have another two questions...

1_Why "Clear Radiosity Cache" is always off?Even after the bake is finished. I don't understand...
2_ How can I save the Cache in just one file?If I uncheck or check "Save After Each Frame" it's always the same...:(...In 11.6.3 I saved the cache in just one file but now in 2015.2 it seems strange to me.

Any suggestion?

Every4thPixel
06-15-2015, 06:28 AM
I almost never bake my GI and I use it in almost all of my scenes I create. I don't do archiViz but in most motion graphics and visual effects I don't have to bake.

Niko3D
06-15-2015, 07:44 AM
Nothing guys...I think to have a file corrupted. I opened a new scene like a test and "Clear Radiosity" and to create just one file work very good.

lardbros
06-15-2015, 02:17 PM
Hi Lardbros,
Yes...I'm talking just about ArchiViz...and MC No interpolated is very cool...but it kill my timing (unfortunately).
Anyway...who is it this guy called Artur? It seems very interesting!

Hi Niko3d.
I've asked Artur to chime in when he gets a chance. He basically showed me some technique where he bakes only the first and last frame of GI, and then lets the GI do its stuff inbetween. It seemed to create a really nice solution, and no flickering at all (that I could see, although Artur said there was still some visible. Was only a tiiiiny amount though.)


The GI cache files have changed. I found that it's impossible to simply load an old cache in, as it doesn't recognise the multiple files cache file extension. I posted a bug report about it, but never heard back.

artzgo
06-16-2015, 02:39 AM
Hi Lardbros,
Yes...I'm talking just about ArchiViz...and MC No interpolated is very cool...but it kill my timing (unfortunately).
Anyway...who is it this guy called Artur? It seems very interesting!


Hi All.
I am Artur :)

If you can send me the scene ... I set renderer nad I send it to you.
Every scene is different.

If your scene only moves camera, You need only static GI without "Animation box".
You can bake the GI every 20-50 frams or bake GI first frame and rebake GI in several critical frame.
Or render the animation with the "Locked Preprocess"
You can also render without bake GI but You have to set the "Preprocess to Automatic" and set the "Frame Steps" for example 20-50 frames.
Then when You render will bake GI.
Both methods work fast.
Remember the GI must be set very well, only then is there a chance that the all animation would be nice !!!

If the all objects move in the animation is more difficult but there are good ways.

examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYjkCRGEiUI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXlyip0Z8A

It`s best to work on a particular scene.

ps. It is difficult to explain to me the problem with GI ... my english is still weak :( ... sorry :)

Niko3D
06-16-2015, 02:42 AM
Hi Niko3d.
I've asked Artur to chime in when he gets a chance. He basically showed me some technique where he bakes only the first and last frame of GI, and then lets the GI do its stuff inbetween. It seemed to create a really nice solution, and no flickering at all (that I could see, although Artur said there was still some visible. Was only a tiiiiny amount though.)


The GI cache files have changed. I found that it's impossible to simply load an old cache in, as it doesn't recognise the multiple files cache file extension. I posted a bug report about it, but never heard back.

Wow!Artur's test are very interesting!...
Let me know if you'll have more informations!

Thanks

Niko3D
06-16-2015, 02:46 AM
Hi All.
I am Artur :)

If you can send me the scene ... I set renderer nad I send it to you.
Every scene is different.

If your scene only moves camera, You need only static GI without "Animation box".
You can bake the GI every 20-50 frams or bake GI first frame and rebake GI in several critical frame.
Or render the animation with the "Locked Preprocess"
You can also render without bake GI but You have to set the "Preprocess to Automatic" and set the "Frame Steps" for example 20-50 frames.
Then when You render will bake GI.
Both methods work fast.
Remember the GI must be set very well, only then is there a chance that the all animation would be nice !!!

If the all objects move in the animation is more difficult but there are good ways.

examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYjkCRGEiUI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXlyip0Z8A

It`s best to work on a particular scene.

ps. It is difficult to explain to me the problem with GI ... my english is still weak :( ... sorry :)

AAAAAhhhh Artur!!!!You are!!!...ahahahah...How is the cat?;)

artzgo
06-16-2015, 03:44 AM
AAAAAhhhh Artur!!!!You are!!!...ahahahah...How is the cat?;)

... Cat good, still sleeps :)

What`s your name on FB ? ... you seen my renders on FB?

ps. best to do a sample scene share a forum for testing

Niko3D
06-16-2015, 04:02 AM
... Cat good, still sleeps :)

What`s your name on FB ? ... you seen my renders on FB?

ps. best to do a sample scene share a forum for testing

Yes...I agree...I think would be very useful for all to do a sample scene and share it.

Niko3D
06-16-2015, 05:39 AM
Hi All.
I am Artur :)

If you can send me the scene ... I set renderer nad I send it to you.
Every scene is different.

If your scene only moves camera, You need only static GI without "Animation box".
You can bake the GI every 20-50 frams or bake GI first frame and rebake GI in several critical frame.
Or render the animation with the "Locked Preprocess"
You can also render without bake GI but You have to set the "Preprocess to Automatic" and set the "Frame Steps" for example 20-50 frames.
Then when You render will bake GI.
Both methods work fast.
Remember the GI must be set very well, only then is there a chance that the all animation would be nice !!!

If the all objects move in the animation is more difficult but there are good ways.

examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYjkCRGEiUI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXlyip0Z8A

It`s best to work on a particular scene.

ps. It is difficult to explain to me the problem with GI ... my english is still weak :( ... sorry :)

...mmmm...
Usually I make like this for animation:
- I use Final Gather...my setup but I put Multiplier 50%.
- I put Cache Automatic, Save after Each Frame (for to have just one file), Frame steps 20 and Bake the scene.
- When it ends I put Locked and I save the scene.
- I send the scene to my renderfarm.

In this way works perfect without any problems.
The ONLY problem is that for long animation of 3/4 mins with a lot of trees, cars, people is not super fast...so I have to wait maybe 2/3/4 or 5 hours for to have my GI Cache file.

I'll try your methods with my scene!In case I'll send to you my scene...:)

artzgo
06-16-2015, 07:33 AM
pleasant testing :)

RebelHill
06-16-2015, 07:41 AM
Stuff here will help...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFZ2av-BLg