PDA

View Full Version : Radial Falloff



DanUR
06-09-2015, 01:28 PM
Regarding the "Radial Falloff" option for many tools; I wonder why there is no "Reverse" alternative (mock-up attached)? I usually resort to weight maps. But I wonder if I am missing something obvious?

Thank you.

128577

spherical
06-09-2015, 02:02 PM
I'm guessing "no" because that would be called "fallon". :D What may work is an invert node. JoePoe or XswampyX will probably have a solution.

DanUR
06-09-2015, 02:21 PM
Thank you. I will investigate the "invert node".

"Fallon". Ha!

spherical
06-09-2015, 08:47 PM
And that was before my espresso...

probiner
06-09-2015, 09:38 PM
this everywhere would be nice.

http://i.imgur.com/52jPpUN.png

http://i.imgur.com/VG6rKaz.png

DanUR
06-09-2015, 10:29 PM
That does look nice. Where does this exist?

probiner
06-09-2015, 10:54 PM
Blender Brush falloff. The ability to save preset and invert points would be interesting too. So many normalized spaces are dealt with in 3D world, why not have a unified solution that can be applied everywhere to cope with them? :)

curve modulates chain nodes rotation and distance to parent with a falloff based on start and end of the chain https://www.youtube.com/v/_jAD-7NGaFs?start=131&end=145

3D curve modulates the pages distribution with a falloff based on the page being more on the cover or more in the middle https://www.youtube.com/v/_jAD-7NGaFs?start=196&end=206

So many more examples could be given since normalizing ranges of values is a common practice. db&w Remap node is a example of that. First normalizes the range to 0-1 space, then to the actual values you've chosen, hence you being able to use that Function Port to modulate the values after the normalization step.

Going a bit off-road here. It's just annoying to see the same thing scattered all over the place and not seeing unified solutions, basic features or methods you can master and re-apply them everywhere, not just in a single niche.

Sensei
06-10-2015, 01:33 AM
Blender Brush falloff. The ability to save preset and invert points would be interesting too.

Wrinkle http://wrinkle.trueart.eu has this built-in.

prometheus
06-10-2015, 01:42 AM
this everywhere would be nice.

http://i.imgur.com/52jPpUN.png

http://i.imgur.com/VG6rKaz.png

I want that in all possible channels, especially in falloff channels when doing terrain and Zero out ground edges as you please with a curve.

I also want it in hypervoxels in falloff, (which by the way do not work at all with standard falloff)
I want it in density and thickness, smoothness channels too for hypervoxels.

Michael

Sensei
06-10-2015, 01:50 AM
I want that in all possible channels,

That should be node- you have inputs for all kind of stuff, and plug node curve, and input is modified using supplied by user node..

Every4thPixel
06-10-2015, 01:52 AM
this everywhere would be nice.

http://i.imgur.com/52jPpUN.png

http://i.imgur.com/VG6rKaz.png

+1

This is what we need in every tool!

prometheus
06-10-2015, 02:14 AM
That should be node- you have inputs for all kind of stuff, and plug node curve, and input is modified using supplied by user node..

hypervoxels falloff works within the node editor, however, it is a hack and do not update properly in realtime with VPR, (possible with live studio active?)

but you still canīt get a curve to work in the smoothness and thickness channels, there are no such node inputs as far as I know of in hypervoxels, donīt know if it may be possible to add a node procedural in the thickness channel and acess a curve function in there and if that would work, but I do not believe it could work.

when working with terrain, well... I prefer in many cases to layer stack in standard layers and displace stuff which I feel is a faster workflow than jumping in to nodes applying layer node and work from there and plug to displacement.
So I would be happy to have a direct falloff curve with a more direct approach to the function in matter, same goes for hypervoxels, the principle is sort of like this example..I canīt invert hypertextures...but with nodeīs you can, so you have to jump in to the nodes locate hypertexture which isnīt the same as the direct hypertextures, then plug it in, open the hypertexture node, invert it etc..and all this takes so much more time than the direct approach and you donīt get the same results either, so I have some objections and dislikes about nodes from time to time, though I do see itīs power in many cases too.

Basicly the old lightwave direct access to functions in a first level module is what I always have enjoyed, I hope they continue to work on node and itīs workflow, perhaps a global Node visor, from which you hit a shortcut and it will display all connections in nodes where ever they are in lightwave..and with direct access to any of them, wether it may be surface,displace,motion or hypervoxels..and future bullet of course:)

Sensei
06-10-2015, 03:00 AM
I mean native support for Node Editor, not procedural texture hack..
LWTextureAccess structure is very limited in comparison to LWNodalAccess.
Procedural textures have no UV, so Node Editor procedural texture can't support UV mapping.

prometheus
06-10-2015, 03:32 AM
I mean native support for Node Editor, not procedural texture hack..
LWTextureAccess structure is very limited in comparison to LWNodalAccess.
Procedural textures have no UV, so Node Editor procedural texture can't support UV mapping.

Isnīt hypervoxels node editor a hack? or was it implemented properly nativly, maybe it was..not sure.
I am probably confusing the procedural hypertexture node editor and the direct node editor, but I donīt think any of them can put a curve on thickness inputs.

We foremost lack a working fallof directly in hypertextures falloff tab, and we lack a local density functioning gradient in thickness channel, in dissolve it works..but it should go in to thickness for better softening of edges.

Anyway...doesnīt matter if smoothness and thickness functions arenīt there in nodes, that may be why I thought it still is there as a hack.

for the other stuff outside of hypervoxels topic, that is of no concern, since I didnīt bring the procedural hack up in relation to accessing nodes with displacement, just mentioned that even though those nodes are natively and working as they should, I prefer standard layering for faster workflow.

Donīt have access to lightwave where I am at right now, have to check later.

JoePoe
06-10-2015, 07:59 AM
Spherical - thanks for the vote of confidence! There IS a workaround (kinda 8~) !!

But first a rant :mad:

This is where I really start to lose patience with LW. It really makes the program look like amateur hour.
As everyone has said.... should be available throughout tool selection. Okay not such a long rant..... but the frustration goes on and on and on.

Here's another example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MTxA9QyRU) .... C4D free plugin. Watch the 50 seconds from 11:10-12:00 and cry 128590.

--------

The (a) workaround: Yes, weight maps.
You will need the super fantastic Weight Outward (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/contains/weight%20outward/) by Ken Nign :bowdown:

(Like some other plugs..) It lets you use A BACKGROUND SPLINE (sorry, yelling again) as your weight falloff profile. So you can draw (within reason) the curve you want.

My custom curve 128591 used to make a map with Weight Outward. Translate using weight map falloff 128592. (btw: I would use Smooth after this step.)

Certainly not as easy as hitting "invert" or throwing some points around on a curve interactively within the tool. :bangwall:

EDIT:
Oh, and to address the original question specifically (again, sort of). Ken also has a plug called Falloff Spline (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/falloff-spline/). You can get your reverse profile pretty painlessly. (still have to go the weight map route though). 128593 128594

prometheus
06-10-2015, 09:37 AM
Spherical - thanks for the vote of confidence! There IS a workaround (kinda 8~) !!

But first a rant :mad:

This is where I really start to lose patience with LW. It really makes the program look like amateur hour.
As everyone has said.... should be available throughout tool selection. Okay not such a long rant..... but the frustration goes on and on and on.

Here's another example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MTxA9QyRU) .... C4D free plugin. Watch the 50 seconds from 11:10-12:00 and cry 128590.


Exactly, that is how a proper tool should be implemented with falloff, and we are most certainly on the same page about that, sure nodes are powerful, but for some things, operations like this should be more basic and directly accesable with such falloffs and not buried in nodes editor and having to add additional curve node, it will only slow down Lightwave workflow and UI feel, as well as in fact hide the function from noob users, and in the end lightwavef will be perceived as less attractive if similar operations would require digging in the node grave yard for performing what I consider common tasks.

For a radial falloff, I actually usally just add a dot procedural with fuzzy edge and the proper radius and set blending mode to alpha, I will take a look at the curve node too..just to try it out and be done with it and learn the lesson:)

Michael

DanUR
06-10-2015, 10:36 AM
I am clearly punching well above my weight, here...