PDA

View Full Version : OPEN VDB-To be or not to be? Development status/Hints?



prometheus
05-30-2015, 05:52 AM
Hereīs Ken Musethīs paper on it...I think there was a swedish guy involved too, (Mihai Aldén) and Peter Cucka.

http://www.museth.org/Ken/OpenVDB_files/Museth_TOG13.pdf#page=2&zoom=auto,-265,550

http://www.openvdb.org/

Would be nice to know if the Lw team has heard of open VDB? and perhaps have read the article? :D
I think jascha has done some develpment changes at least for the upcoming turbulence versions.

cheers

Michael

Netvudu
05-30-2015, 07:34 AM
Open VDB is a MAJOR format and a MAJOR need in Lw right now.
Every software is already using this as a format interchange for volumetric data. Itīs the Alembic for volumes.
If next the next version of LW does not add this, we will have a very difficult year, as every other software has ways to import this already.

Itīs THE way to simulate somewhere else, letīs say, Houdini, and bring that into LW for shading and rendering.

prometheus
05-30-2015, 09:16 AM
Open VDB is a MAJOR format and a MAJOR need in Lw right now.
Every software is already using this as a format interchange for volumetric data. Itīs the Alembic for volumes.
If next the next version of LW does not add this, we will have a very difficult year, as every other software has ways to import this already.

Itīs THE way to simulate somewhere else, letīs say, Houdini, and bring that into LW for shading and rendering.

yeah..I am sure they know about the tech, and have looked in to it, if they have put that on a hight priority and also doable in a near future, I have no clue, but I sure would like to know if they have started the process of research in the area, or something like that.

Michael

ianr
05-30-2015, 09:24 AM
This is future proofed as much as things can be the ephemeral
world of Film & is worth LW3DG devs having a Punt on cos' of the
phrase "It is developed and maintained by DreamWorks Animation"
Also this keeps up the goal of Mr.Powers Pipeline too!

Quote:
"OpenVDB is an open source C++ library comprising a novel hierarchical data structure
and a suite of tools for the efficient storage and manipulation of sparse volumetric data
discretized on three-dimensional grids. It is developed and maintained by DreamWorks Animation
for use in volumetric applications typically encountered in feature film production."

Also see on the VDB forums is a name-poster 'Hurleyworks' I wonder who that could be?:cool:

m.d.
05-30-2015, 01:40 PM
Pretty sure we will get openVDB via octane 3....
It is part of octane 3 and Jaun should have no problem integrating it.....

I realize that still doesnt help with viewport visualization or native access however, really though HV's are a little long in the tooth...if we wanted to render openVDB with HV render tech that is a little like installing a Titan GPU in an amiga.
Volumetrics needs a complete overhaul update to the latest algorithms before we even bother with native Lightwave VDB rendering...

ianr
05-31-2015, 06:48 AM
Ah! Thank you M.D. a GPU in a Amiga.? That would have made the crashes quicker to dispense with.l.o.l

prometheus
05-31-2015, 07:40 AM
Pretty sure we will get openVDB via octane 3....
It is part of octane 3 and Jaun should have no problem integrating it.....

I realize that still doesnt help with viewport visualization or native access however, really though HV's are a little long in the tooth...if we wanted to render openVDB with HV render tech that is a little like installing a Titan GPU in an amiga.
Volumetrics needs a complete overhaul update to the latest algorithms before we even bother with native Lightwave VDB rendering...


I thought Arnold for lightwave might be the way? but I know to little about that, just thinking since houdini and arnold seem to be a pro choice :)


yeah ..Volumetric overhaul indeed, would also be nice if they could throw in a full volumetric atmosphere engine similar to ogo taiki or something, but with better speed of course and some enhancements in UI etc, I wonder if openVDB could manage a similar
surface volumetric mode that ogo taiki has, that would bring forth landscapes with infinite detail no matter how close you come to the terrain, and it would also be globally infinite with no worries of running out of land when camera goes out for a long trip :) , the surface mode was promising and experimental, though it was looking nice..it was of course quite slow.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/land16.jpg http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/land4.jpg http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/land2.jpg

Michael

creacon
05-31-2015, 08:26 AM
if we wanted to render openVDB with HV render tech that is a little like installing a Titan GPU in an amiga.


I don't understand what you're saying here, volumetrics in LW don't have algorithms, they just provide a means of accessing pixels at rendertime. HV surface is an isosurface renderer, the volumetrics are using raymarching. I don't see what needs to be changed to allow an implementation of Openvdb?

creacon

m.d.
05-31-2015, 09:28 AM
I don't understand what you're saying here, volumetrics in LW don't have algorithms, they just provide a means of accessing pixels at rendertime. HV surface is an isosurface renderer, the volumetrics are using raymarching. I don't see what needs to be changed to allow an implementation of Openvdb?

creacon

i think most people realize the algorithms involved have little to do with importing a file ;D

I am assuming volumetric rendering and scattering has come a long way since the 12-13 years since LW implemented it?
Check Arnold for example...even turbulence had to implement their own scattering on top of LW native to get decent results.

A better analogy would be to build a custom adaptor so you could playback Blu-Ray via HDMI to the antenna connections on your old black and white TV.

Greatly exaggerated of course....LW is far from useless in this regard, but while we are updating volumetric file support we may want to look at updating the rendering of them at the same time.

prometheus
06-01-2015, 02:06 AM
whatīs the story about field 3D? not sure how much of that is related to openvdb?
may be restricted to just the handling/storing of the voxel data in open source library, where it uses open vdb data?

http://opensource.imageworks.com/?p=field3d
https://sites.google.com/site/field3d/

jwiede
06-01-2015, 05:08 AM
I don't understand what you're saying here, volumetrics in LW don't have algorithms, they just provide a means of accessing pixels at rendertime. HV surface is an isosurface renderer, the volumetrics are using raymarching. I don't see what needs to be changed to allow an implementation of Openvdb?

They aren't saying changes are needed to implement OpenVDB, they're saying that integrating OpenVDB only makes sense with strong volumetric shading support, and LW lacks that right now. It lacks built-in volume meshing support, doesn't really have particularly good volumetric blending/scattering from a shading perspective, and so forth -- iow, users would be able to bring in the OpenVDB data via an OpenVDB integration, but their ability to use that data for rendering within LW would be pretty limited. It's the same reason why RealFlow includes its own volume mesher, and TFD includes its own volumetric shading engine, to name two examples.

creacon
06-01-2015, 06:35 AM
I get it now. You are ONLY talking about OpenVDB file format support. But OpenVDB is a lot more than that!
Why would Newtek create volume meshing support when that is part of OpenVDB?

I still have to check what it provides for volume rendering, but once the particles are in an easily accessible tree that shouldn't be too hard.
I already downloaded it but it requires a few external libraries (boost, openexr, ...) and need to get these up and running first.

creacon

jwiede
06-01-2015, 12:44 PM
I get it now. You are ONLY talking about OpenVDB file format support.

To be accurate, I was simply giving my interpretation of what m.d. meant.

m.d.
06-01-2015, 03:56 PM
To be accurate, I was simply giving my interpretation of what m.d. meant.

That pretty much sums it up....

And like I said....LW isn't completely useless in this regard....and there would be some benefit to having openVDB right now inside....

Netvudu
06-02-2015, 04:17 AM
Frankly, from the render side of things, you donīt need a terribly complex shader to render volumes if the simulation is nice. Some stuff such as smoke scattering might get tricky. So, even if some volume shading should be worked out, I donīt think it would be that much work to develop a new volume shader when you add the OpenVDB implementation. Just something which reads a scalar field as density, another scalar field as emission, a couple of vector field for colors, and a velocity field, and youīre pretty much done.

You could add a couple of nice renders (the way Arnold people are doing), and suddenly you can market OpenVDB + simple shader as "NEW STRONG VOLUMETRIC PIPELINE!! INDUSTRY STANDARD FORMATS AND ADVANCED SHADING!! GET LW 2016 OR GET LOST!!"...or something along those lines.

Dunno, I suck at marketing :D

creacon
06-02-2015, 06:04 AM
Creating an isosurface renderer or a raymarcher for volumetrics is easy. the algorithms aren't that complicated. The hard part is creating something that's fast.

creacon


Frankly, from the render side of things, you donīt need a terribly complex shader to render volumes if the simulation is nice. Some stuff such as smoke scattering might get tricky. So, even if some volume shading should be worked out, I donīt think it would be that much work to develop a new volume shader when you add the OpenVDB implementation. Just something which reads a scalar field as density, another scalar field as emission, a couple of vector field for colors, and a velocity field, and youīre pretty much done.

You could add a couple of nice renders (the way Arnold people are doing), and suddenly you can market OpenVDB + simple shader as "NEW STRONG VOLUMETRIC PIPELINE!! INDUSTRY STANDARD FORMATS AND ADVANCED SHADING!! GET LW 2016 OR GET LOST!!"...or something long those lines.

Dunno, I suck at marketing :D

creacon
06-03-2015, 02:32 AM
Lost at least 2 hours yesterday just getting OpenVdb and all dependencies to compile under VStudio, luckily I wasn't the only one so there is a bit of info to be found on the net. So for all of you who think this stuff is easy or doesn't take time, think again ;-)

creacon

prometheus
06-03-2015, 10:24 AM
Lost at least 2 hours yesterday just getting OpenVdb and all dependencies to compile under VStudio, luckily I wasn't the only one so there is a bit of info to be found on the net. So for all of you who think this stuff is easy or doesn't take time, think again ;-)

creacon

Thatīs appreciated, someone needs to take the volumetrics by itīs horn, get the dice rolling, change pants..or what have ya in the dictionary :), and take the lead for others to follow, if someone else in the lw team hasnīt already that is.

Cheers!

Michael

creacon
06-05-2015, 02:44 PM
OK, it is ugly, there's a ton of problems with it, but it's my first OpenVdb mesh in LW ;-)

creacon

128537

m.d.
06-05-2015, 04:57 PM
OK, it is ugly, there's a ton of problems with it, but it's my first OpenVdb mesh in LW ;-)

creacon

128537

Cool....

Any potential as a mesher for your particle fluids experiments?

seghier
06-05-2015, 07:51 PM
can this help developers ?
http://nidclip.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/openvdb-standalone-gui-with-opengl/


http://vimeo.com/88197804

creacon
06-06-2015, 12:37 AM
The screenshot is a liquid simulation inside LW.
OpenVDB provides filtering (erode, dilate,...) which should be able to make this more liquid like.
But it's slow, that's why I am experimenting with 1000 particles instead of 1.000.000.

creacon




Cool....

Any potential as a mesher for your particle fluids experiments?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but I've already found that one :-)


can this help developers ?

lightscape
06-06-2015, 03:16 AM
creacon should be hired by newtek like Matt.
Handle the particle and hypervoxel stuff.
What would be good incentive$$$ to move to texas besides the hottest women around?

creacon
06-06-2015, 04:44 AM
No thanks, I already have a few companies to run.
I am doing this just for fun.

creacon


creacon should be hired by newtek like Matt.
Handle the particle and hypervoxel stuff.
What would be good incentive$$$ to move to texas besides the hottest women around?

lightscape
06-06-2015, 06:40 AM
Want to buy lightwave? kidding

creacon
06-06-2015, 12:05 PM
Ok, I've made a little progress and I am checking to see how far I can go (and how far Layout and VPR will go).
This is a liquid particle emitter, emitting 1000 particles per frame, so in the screenshot there should be around 430.000

Openvdb created 14 million points and 28 million quads.
Layout still handles this huge object and VPR starts renderring after a few seconds (with a dielectric material applied).

I'm officially amazed!

creacon

128548

realgray
06-06-2015, 01:17 PM
Ok, I've made a little progress and I am checking to see how far I can go (and how far Layout and VPR will go).
This is a liquid particle emitter, emitting 1000 particles per frame, so in the screenshot there should be around 430.000

Openvdb created 14 million points and 28 million quads.
Layout still handles this huge object and VPR starts renderring after a few seconds (with a dielectric material applied).

I'm officially amazed!

creacon

128548

Looking good!

prometheus
06-06-2015, 03:06 PM
Ok, I've made a little progress and I am checking to see how far I can go (and how far Layout and VPR will go).
This is a liquid particle emitter, emitting 1000 particles per frame, so in the screenshot there should be around 430.000

Openvdb created 14 million points and 28 million quads.
Layout still handles this huge object and VPR starts renderring after a few seconds (with a dielectric material applied).

I'm officially amazed!

creacon

128548


Good job, now sell your other companies and start working for newtek, or sell the work youvé already done to them, unless they have picked it up already:D

Netvudu
06-06-2015, 04:28 PM
great progress, creacon!

creacon
06-07-2015, 02:23 AM
Lol, if I would work for Newtek, the first proposition I would make is to double the price of LW, and go subscription based. Are you sure you want that?
Not because I want to rip of the customers but because it's good business sense.

Anyway, I wish people would stop telling Newtek who to hire. I am not available.

creacon


Good job, now sell your other companies and start working for newtek, or sell the work youvé already done to them, unless they have picked it up already:D

prometheus
06-07-2015, 04:48 AM
Lol, if I would work for Newtek, the first proposition I would make is to double the price of LW, and go subscription based. Are you sure you want that?
Not because I want to rip of the customers but because it's good business sense.

Anyway, I wish people would stop telling Newtek who to hire. I am not available.

creacon

Nah...those are not good ideas Subscription a no no, higher price..could be acceptable but not double the price... and they need to put more tech in there in such case.
As Mr Trump and Arnold says, Youré fired.....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23ARFCQlb3M

ianr
06-07-2015, 07:41 AM
Forget the "left field' antics
PLEASE continue to post
on this Creacon !
All kind research i say.

creacon
06-09-2015, 12:10 PM
The mesher is working and the filtering that OpenVDB provides seem to work too, I am not convinced that this is the way to render fluids fast, though.

128576

creacon
06-10-2015, 02:07 PM
Starting to look a little bit more like a liquid.

creacon.

128595

Cageman
06-10-2015, 03:03 PM
This is very cool, creacon! Looking forward to follow this thread... good progress I have to say! :)

Lewis
06-10-2015, 04:41 PM
good progress man, very good :).

creacon
06-11-2015, 02:59 AM
I wish I could go faster, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of time.
And I am loosing too much time on navigating around shortcomings in the XPanels.

creacon

Every4thPixel
06-11-2015, 03:22 AM
I wish I could donate some time but I can't. It looks promising!

Curly_01
06-11-2015, 06:26 AM
I case someone didn't know this, the next version of Octane Render that will be released this summer supports OpenVDB.

creacon
06-11-2015, 06:41 AM
Implementing OpenVDB is easy, getting something useful out of it, is harder. Now that I know what's in OpenVDB, the question is: What part of OpenVDB will it support?

creacon


I case someone didn't know this, the next version of Octane Render that will be released this summer supports OpenVDB.

prometheus
06-11-2015, 08:17 AM
I wish I could go faster, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of time.
And I am loosing too much time on navigating around shortcomings in the XPanels.

creacon

XPanels seem to be a messy obstacle for developers, and is screwing up for me when working with dpont sunsky, the xpanel canīt show some settings in sunsky, have to close effects tab and restart for it to pop up as itīs own floating panel in order to use it.
Dpont said it was because of XPanels, the question is where they are heading with that, is the lw team about to implement a completly new UI or overcome XPanel limitations+

Michael

creacon
06-11-2015, 09:32 AM
Who knows? I have no problems in getting them to refresh, but then again I am not using them integrated in the interface but only in my panel. And if Denis says that there is a problem, there probably is, he wrote enough plugins to know :-)

The problem I am having is missing functionality, listboxes are available in Panels, not in XPanels, OpenGL controls, same problem.

The control type is set by a string, so your compiler won't catch any errors.

I lost an hour once because I spelled "Integer" instead of "integer", everything worked, no crashes, but no results either.

creacon


XPanels seem to be a messy obstacle for developers, and is screwing up for me when working with dpont sunsky, the xpanel canīt show some settings in sunsky, have to close effects tab and restart for it to pop up as itīs own floating panel in order to use it.
Dpont said it was because of XPanels, the question is where they are heading with that, is the lw team about to implement a completly new UI or overcome XPanel limitations+

Michael

creacon
06-14-2015, 09:24 AM
Just another test, not a lot of particles and it looks more like liquid glass, but at least it's rendering.

creacon

dpont
06-14-2015, 10:05 AM
Who knows? I have no problems in getting them to refresh, but then again I am not using them integrated in the interface but only in my panel. And if Denis says that there is a problem, there probably is,...

Xpanel are integrated in the interface, only if the list of Xpanel parameters is short enough,
a potential feature which is managed by Layout not the plugin,
the reported issue seems to be in the Environment only.


...The problem I am having is missing functionality, listboxes are available in Panels, not in XPanels, OpenGL controls, same problem...

You can include Xpanel in Panel.

Denis.

creacon
06-14-2015, 11:59 AM
I know I can integrate an XPanel in a Panel, I am doing this right now.
But I can't integrate an OpenGL control in an XPanel or a Listview (or treeview) in an XPanel.

creacon




Xpanel are integrated in the interface, only if the list of Xpanel parameters is short enough,
a potential feature which is managed by Layout not the plugin,
the reported issue seems to be in the Environment only.



You can include Xpanel in Panel.

Denis.

jwiede
06-15-2015, 11:08 AM
I know I can integrate an XPanel in a Panel, I am doing this right now.
But I can't integrate an OpenGL control in an XPanel or a Listview (or treeview) in an XPanel.

What about using the bundled QT libraries?

creacon
06-15-2015, 01:26 PM
To replace the complete Panel, you mean?
Could be interesting to find out, and make it easier to port to Modo afterwards, but I solved my problem with a quick and dirty solution for now.

creacon


What about using the bundled QT libraries?

- - - Updated - - -

128619Starting to look a bit more interesting.

creacon
06-15-2015, 01:29 PM
128620and a frame a bit further in the sim.

creacon
06-15-2015, 04:21 PM
Would like to post some more tests but this Forum only allows 75 attachments. So I deleted a bunch through my account but they're still there?
Anyone knows how to solve this?

creacon

Ztreem
06-16-2015, 12:21 AM
WOW! starts to look good. Would be nice to see a little movie clip of your test. :)

creacon
06-16-2015, 12:41 AM
If you read my previous post you'll see that I can't post any attachments anymore.
If I go into my account page I have 20 attachments, if I want to post with an attachment the forum says I have 75.

creacon

ernpchan
06-16-2015, 12:49 AM
If you read my previous post you'll see that I can't post any attachments anymore.
If I go into my account page I have 20 attachments, if I want to post with an attachment the forum says I have 75.

creacon

Maybe send a pm to sbowie? He might be able to help.

lightscape
06-16-2015, 12:57 AM
Would like to post some more tests but this Forum only allows 75 attachments. So I deleted a bunch through my account but they're still there?
Anyone knows how to solve this?

creacon


http://imgur.com/
http://postimage.org/

creacon
06-16-2015, 03:16 AM
@lightscape
I want to post a mov

creacon

prometheus
06-16-2015, 03:26 AM
something obviously wrong when clearing the attachments then? did you go to settings and attachments select check the box of the message and then, delete selected?

By the way, I got 1090 attachment in my settings, for a total of 407 mb.

prometheus
06-16-2015, 03:29 AM
@lightscape
I want to post a mov

creacon


and by the way, why donīt you post it on youtube or vimeo? and share the link directly with a thumbnail here, it would be easier for us to see also without the need to download to our own harddrive...like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xs4BbT3rPI

creacon
06-16-2015, 03:40 AM
It's not supposed to be easier for you, it's supposed to be easier and faster for me ;-)

creacon


and by the way, why donīt you post it on youtube or vimeo? and share the link directly with a thumbnail here, it would be easier for us to see also without the need to download to our own harddrive...like this...

prometheus
06-16-2015, 04:05 AM
It's not supposed to be easier for you, it's supposed to be easier and faster for me ;-)

creacon

Lol..you are just biting yourself in the tail with your sadistic intentions:D since it seems to be more of a fuzz to find out about clearing the attachments rather than just post it to youtube:D

But I get the Irony, do whatever suits you best, and I do appreciate the time you take to explore the openvdb uses.

Cheers.

Michael

lightscape
06-16-2015, 04:58 AM
@lightscape
I want to post a mov

creacon


https://vid.me/XQOG
no registration

creacon
06-16-2015, 05:14 AM
Once I get a beta out of the door, the testers can make videos :-)
But I have some polishing, optimizing and bug fixing to do first.

creacon


Lol..you are just biting yourself in the tail with your sadistic intentions:D since it seems to be more of a fuzz to find out about clearing the attachments rather than just post it to youtube:D

But I get the Irony, do whatever suits you best, and I do appreciate the time you take to explore the openvdb uses.

Cheers.

Michael

prometheus
06-16-2015, 09:36 AM
Once I get a beta out of the door, the testers can make videos :-)
But I have some polishing, optimizing and bug fixing to do first.

creacon

If you can pull off volumetric item stuff..making it from geometry etc (I got a sense of deja vou here, having talked about that long time ago), I would sign up for beta testing...liquids are important and cool too, but I have always had a thing for the volumetric stuff.
It may of course be out of reach as it is with lw SDK limitations today? have no clue about that though, then again you can see volumedic perform similar stuff.

Michael

creacon
06-16-2015, 10:07 AM
All the volumetric stuff is covered in OpenVDB, but I haven't looked at it.
There are no limitations in the LW SDK that would prevent an implementation.

creacon


If you can pull off volumetric item stuff..making it from geometry etc (I got a sense of deja vou here, having talked about that long time ago), I would sign up for beta testing...liquids are important and cool too, but I have always had a thing for the volumetric stuff.
It may of course be out of reach as it is with lw SDK limitations today? have no clue about that though, then again you can see volumedic perform similar stuff.

Michael

Netvudu
06-16-2015, 03:44 PM
same here. I consider OpenVDB paramount for volumes...not so much for liquids, since there are other options that work for that as well.

creacon
06-16-2015, 04:06 PM
The 2 stills I posted were simulated in 5 S (250 frames) and meshed in 15 minutes.
I started to make this because most solutions that are out there leave you no possibilities to iterate and get decent results in a short time.

Anyway, volumetrics shouldn't be too hard once the particle data is in a levelset.

creacon


same here. I consider OpenVDB paramount for volumes...not so much for liquids, since there are other options that work for that as well.

creacon
06-16-2015, 04:16 PM
Today I was able to attach a 15Mb mov (or better, it uploaded without errors) and when I look in the attachment overview it isn't there.
Another 8Mb file produces an error message. And I am nowhere near your 407Mb.

creacon


something obviously wrong when clearing the attachments then? did you go to settings and attachments select check the box of the message and then, delete selected?

By the way, I got 1090 attachment in my settings, for a total of 407 mb.

gerry_g
06-16-2015, 04:56 PM
why not publish to YouTube and link ?

robertoortiz
06-16-2015, 05:42 PM
why not publish to YouTube and link ?
Vimeo is even better. You can publish a password protected video.

prometheus
06-17-2015, 04:05 AM
why not publish to YouTube and link ?

He has already given answers on that in previous pages :)

if creacon insist on the easier way to just post here, maybe just zip the files before posting here instead of movs directly, I donīt play mov files directly anyway from these forums, I right click and download for smoother playing, so it might be better to just zip it...unless posted to vimeo or youtube.
and how about drop box?

creacon
06-17-2015, 06:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuv590EM3dC52M0w6gFbuZQ

Ok Guys, I forgot that I already had a Youtube channel, so the 2 last vids are on there.

robertoortiz
06-17-2015, 10:08 AM
SWEET JEBUS...Great work.
Sorry if you posted this before.
What did you use to calculate your simulation?

creacon
06-17-2015, 11:10 AM
This uses PhysX in Lightwave, you can copy to LW buffers so instances and HV can see it or mesh it.

creacon

prometheus
06-17-2015, 11:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuv590EM3dC52M0w6gFbuZQ

Ok Guys, I forgot that I already had a Youtube channel, so the 2 last vids are on there.

yaay!:dance:

and you got me on prescription.
The sand and liquids are looking good.

creacon
06-17-2015, 12:45 PM
Hey, I am not a doctor ;-)



and you got me on prescription.

SteveH
06-17-2015, 01:29 PM
Man both of those look awesome!

prometheus
06-17-2015, 01:47 PM
Hey, I am not a doctor ;-)

Obviously I am on drugs, or having the sloppyness english disease.:D

creacon
06-18-2015, 03:41 AM
Added another sand video on the channel.

creacon

Netvudu
06-18-2015, 05:16 AM
Itīs very nice that youīre testing methods. May I ask the goal for it? I mean, itīs shaded like sand but it totally moves like water, not sand.

ernpchan
06-18-2015, 12:17 PM
Very impressive results. Is there hope for an actual product or are these just tests?

creacon
06-18-2015, 12:19 PM
It's quicksand ;-)


Itīs very nice that youīre testing methods. May I ask the goal for it? I mean, itīs shaded like sand but it totally moves like water, not sand.

creacon
06-18-2015, 12:21 PM
For the time being just tests.
If I release a product I would have to support it, and I don't have time for that.

creacon


Very impressive results. Is there hope for an actual product or are these just tests?

robertoortiz
06-18-2015, 12:39 PM
Still this is impressive stuff.
How was the rendering/computation time?

creacon
06-18-2015, 02:36 PM
I just did a new test:
500 frames emitting 2000 particles per frame, so 1 million on the last frame.
Total simulation time 40 seconds.

Rendering (sand) is just LW instances, so a few seconds per frame.

creacon


Still this is impressive stuff.
How was the rendering/computation time?

lightscape
06-18-2015, 08:24 PM
Looks like its easy enough to be working in a couple of days coding.
I hope newtek is looking at adding physx liquids and vdb. The stuff they added in lw 2015 didn't really have "IT". Some users held off upgrading. That's the problem when you don't consult and communicate with users if the release is good enough before releasing a paid upgrade.
Liquids and volumetrics will probably be a bigger attraction for some users.

creacon
06-19-2015, 02:26 AM
You can't compare the time needed to just get something to work, to implementing it in a shipping application with an existing userbase. I would prefer them to concentrate on the base, replace the internal particle systems e.g.
I created my own buffers (sounds harder than it is), do everything in those buffers and added an option for the user to copy the final result to a LW particle system. I had to do it this way because the built-in particle system are from the previous century.
- Make (for starters) the UI object oriented (lightwrap++ would be a good starting point) and while they're at it complete the implementation with the most common controls.
- Implement serialization of user classes (the way boost does it), I spend ages in loading saving data from my plugin.
- Implement a working undo
...





Looks like its easy enough to be working in a couple of days coding.
I hope newtek is looking at adding physx liquids and vdb. The stuff they added in lw 2015 didn't really have "IT". Some users held off upgrading. That's the problem when you don't consult and communicate with users if the release is good enough before releasing a paid upgrade.
Liquids and volumetrics will probably be a bigger attraction for some users.

creacon
06-20-2015, 06:22 AM
Reactivated disk caching so I was able to simulate up to 10 million particles without running out of memory.



128658

prometheus
06-20-2015, 08:40 AM
Reactivated disk caching so I was able to simulate up to 10 million particles without running out of memory.



128658

Sweet, when simulating, how fast is it? I recall I can only work decently with 3 millions, if I go to 6 or 8 millions the "cooking" of the particles takes a very long time to wait for and sometimes freeze.
Did you use sprite or volume rendering on that image sample?

I would like to take particle rendering of huge amounts to another level with my old stuff using fractals in velocity vectors to drive the particles....3 millions here with standard particles...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpvZyikRqY

creacon
06-20-2015, 09:07 AM
That sample is 10 million instances of a diamond shaped object! Shows how robust VPR and instancing in LW is.
Simulation must have been around 10 minutes (most of the time is saving to disk), using ssd this should be at least 4 times faster.

With dumb (non liquid) particles, I should be able to go up to 100 million in 5Gb, in my system (40Gb RAM) 800 million should be possible.



Sweet, when simulating, how fast is it? I recall I can only work decently with 3 millions, if I go to 6 or 8 millions the "cooking" of the particles takes a very long time to wait for and sometimes freeze.
Did you use sprite or volume rendering on that image sample?

I would like to take particle rendering of huge amounts to another level with my old stuff using fractals in velocity vectors to drive the particles....3 millions here with standard particles...

zapper1998
12-19-2015, 04:00 PM
this is awesome sauce I mean stuff..


:)