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seghier
05-27-2015, 04:15 PM
Hello
i tried to polygonize a fiberfx but the new mesh lose uv mapping
is there any method to save uv mapping of poligonzed fiber ?

Dodgy
05-27-2015, 06:25 PM
When I polygonize the fibers they come through with UVs. What are your specific settings?

seghier
05-27-2015, 07:08 PM
thanks
which settings ?
it's simple fiber with uv mapping and i polygonized it ; but the result don't have the same texture or uvmap

seghier
06-01-2015, 12:10 PM
no answer or confirmation ?

Dodgy
06-02-2015, 02:07 AM
Do you have a scene? It works for me so I assume I'm not following what you're doing.

seghier
06-02-2015, 07:20 AM
yes i made a mouse and added fiberfx than i polygonized ; but the new mesh don't have uv mapping like the mouse and i can't apply the same texture
can you show me your step by step ?

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 10:08 AM
Yes, Polygonize should retain the UV map. I haven't checked with the latest 2015.2 release though...will take a look at it later and let you know.

As a workaround, you can use DrainBGVmap (it's what I use for transferring UV maps to FiberMesh guides) or possibly Weighter 2 (haven't tested this use with the latest version yet.) DrainBGVmap can be found at Dodgy's website and Weighter 2 can be purchased from Liberty 3D.

But since you're working with FiberFX Edit Guides in Layout, I would want to make sure this is working correctly first.

G.

seghier
06-02-2015, 12:38 PM
thank you Greenlaw
i will try the plugin and see if it can solve the problem

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 12:55 PM
Before you do, note that the DrainBGVmap plugin is old and only runs inside x32 Modeler. This limits the number of fibers it works with, which can be a problem for dense fur.

Weighter 2, on the other hand, can run in x64 Modeler. I'm not sure it can work the same way DrainBGVmap does though. When I tried it a couple of years ago, it didn't produce the results I needed but Weighter 2 has been updated recently so maybe it does now? Sorry, I don't know...need to revisit this when I have time.

G.

seghier
06-02-2015, 01:32 PM
thanks
i add it in lightwave 2015 32bits version but it didn't give me the solution
i will try with 11.6.3 version

seghier
06-02-2015, 04:03 PM
I tried polygonize fiber with lightwave 11.5 but the same problem

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 04:45 PM
I did a very simple test earlier today and I think I know what you're seeing.

When you select Polygonize, FiberFX does generate a UV map but it's not the UV map you might expect--that is, the coordinates do not correspond the surface mesh's UV map. If you open the generated fiber object in Modeler, you can see how the UV map has been generated, from top to bottom, not over the surface area.

If your interest is to Polygonize the fibers so you can use dynamics, you want to select Polygonize Mixed. This converts the main guides to geometry that Bullet and other deformers can affect. It also preserves the UV map so you can use textures designed for the skin surface to color the fibers.

Or is there another reason you wish to Polygonize the fibers?

Hope this helps. Feel free to keep asking questions.

G.

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 04:47 PM
BTW, DrainBGVmap does use the surface UV to transfer the UV coordinates to the base points of the fibers. There are a few tricks to keep in mind though for this to work properly.

If I have time tonight, I'll see if I explain the steps.

G.

erikals
06-02-2015, 05:05 PM
did you mean this one ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r56uwDG3hU

erikals
06-02-2015, 05:10 PM
6min into this vid using "Textured Point" might also give ideas...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw1kV_zB23Q



but now... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/sleeping.gif 1.00am

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 05:47 PM
Just curious but since mice generally have very short fur, I was wondering why you wanted to polygonize the guides? Normally you would do this to apply dynamics to the guides but very short fur doesn't really respond to motion. Is this for some other effect?

BTW, in a nutshell, to use DrainBGVmap, you will want to select only the base points of the guides in Modeler and use the 'body' UV map (or whatever you called it,) from the skin mesh to replot their coordinates to conform to their relative position near the skin surface. The technique is actually pretty straightforward but you may have to experiment with different settings before you get the result you want. I normally use this method for FiberMesh guides from Zbrush--it's how I got the textures to work with the cat fur in our 'B2' demo a couple of years ago.

Hope this helps.

G.

seghier
06-02-2015, 06:36 PM
thank you very much for tips and help
i want render this fibers with maxwell render and i need use the same texture and uvmap because the actual plugin don't support fibers
i will try polygonize mixed ; it take long time :)

- - - Updated - - -



6min into this vid using "Textured Point" might also give ideas...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw1kV_zB23Q



but now... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/sleeping.gif 1.00am

thanks erikals
i will see the video ; i don't know if this plugin can do what i need

Greenlaw
06-02-2015, 07:25 PM
Oh, I see. Then Polygonized Mixed might not help you, assuming that Maxwell needs actual modeled geometry for hair fibers. What Polygonized Mixed gives you is a 'baked' version of the Edit Guides geometry so you can use it with dynamics or other deformers, but it may be meaningless to Maxwell unless they integrated the FiberFX API like Octane did. (Sorry, I'm just guessing that's how it works...I don't have any actual experience with either of these third party renderers.)

I think what you want to use is the regular Polygonize command and choose the fiber shape you need for Maxwell. The UV map generated bye Polygonize is top/bottom, so it won't help you for preserving the texture UV from your 'skin' surface. For that, you'll need to use DrainBGVmap or Weighter 2 (if it can work the same as DrainBGVmap now), as described above. The downside is that this is going to generate a huge amount of data for a furry creature...hope you have a ton of RAM. :)

If Maxwell supports instancing, you might want to look into that as an alternative. Just a thought.

I got home a few minutes ago...I'll see if I can whip up an example for the Polygonize and DrainBGVmap process.

G.

seghier
06-02-2015, 10:01 PM
many thanks :)
yes maxwell support instances and i export hair as mesh than imported it in maxwell but my problem with uv map
i will try again with the plugin

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 09:27 AM
Okay, I think I understand the problem a little better then.

TBH, I'm not sure how you will get a UV map out of FiberFX that Maxwell can use. The way FiberFX fibers get color from a skin texture map comes from UV mapping the base point of the guides; When the base points are textured, the color is then carried up the length of the fiber at render time. So even when you have that data, unless Maxwell has a similar fiber system, the UV map may be meaningless.

I could be wrong but it sounds like Maxwell needs fully modeled guides? If this is the case, you may need to create a new UV map and paint the fibers the way you normally paint a uv mapped mesh. (Using 3D-Coat or ZBrush for example.)

If you're trying to transfer the UV coordinates to modeled fibers, I'm afraid DrainBGVmap is not going to be good enough for what you want--I think it's going to make a mess of the modeled fibers and besides x32 Modeler is probably not going to be able to handle that much data. For example, I've run into memory limitations in transferring UV coordinates to only the base points for furred creatures, so I'm pretty sure it's not going to work with fully modeled geometry version of fibers.

If you can't paint the modeled fibers like a regular mesh, you might consider surfacing the modeled fibers procedurally for Maxwell.

Not knowing Maxwell at all, I'm just guessing of course. How is fur normally created and surfaced for Maxwell? I'm guessing that it doesn't natively support FiberFX like Octane. Does it support CyHair? (Just curious because I'm really not sure what supports CyHair yet.)

Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable about rendering hair and fibers in Maxwell will pick up on this discussion. Or you might want to carry this over to the Maxwell forums.

G.

seghier
06-03-2015, 11:03 AM
thank you
maxwell can read hair created with 3dsmax ; blender and other compatible softwares with its textures and uv mapping
i think i cant solve this problem because after polygonize fibers the new shape don't have any color or texture
if the new mesh have the same texture as fibers i can simply export it to maxwell directly
and i can't paint alot of fibers :) ; i need strong pc !
i will render fibers with lightwave and the scene with maxwell than ply with photoshop

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 11:29 AM
thank you
maxwell can read hair created with 3dsmax ; blender and other compatible softwares with its textures and uv mapping...

It sounds like Maxwell might be using guides then, as opposed to modeled fibers--which should be doable with FiberFX. Can you upload a sample from Max or Blender? That might give us a clue for what Maxwell is expecting out of Lightwave. (i.e., curves, single point polygons, modeled geometry, polygon blades, or something else altogether.)

BTW, you might want to test your workflow with something very simple first, like a small plane with fewer fibers, rather than a whole character. Working with a simple object faster and easier to troubleshoot.

G.

seghier
06-03-2015, 12:23 PM
if i upload maxwell hair example you need to open it with maxwell studio ; you can download demo version
i will create simple example
the developer of maxwell plugin for lightwave develop other plugins ; for this reason the updates are very slow
i hope he made an update soon

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 12:31 PM
I think the file that Maxwell is importing for hair would be more telling. Do you know what it is that Max and Blender export for hair to Maxwell? FBX, OBJ, native files, a custom hair format?

Sorry, I'm not sure I can help beyond that since I'm not using Maxwell and I don't really want to take the time to learn it right now. Hopefully somebody with Maxwell knowledge and experience will jump in.

G.

seghier
06-03-2015, 12:55 PM
screenshots and maxwell scene attached

128490128489128488128487128486

- - - Updated - - -

no maxwell have its own method to read hair : Maxwell hair

seghier
06-03-2015, 12:57 PM
thank you very much for help
i don't need help with maxwell hair :)
what i need is export hair as mesh from lightwave without lose skin texture ; but i think this impossible

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 01:05 PM
Okay, but what is Maxwell using from the host program to render 'Maxwell Hair' to? In other words, is it reading splines, polygons, or something else? You need to find out what the equivalent object would be in Lightwave, or if that option is even available. This is probably a question you need to pose to the developers of Maxwell.

G.

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 01:14 PM
No prob.

Yeah, I think if you're trying to generate fully modeled hair fibers for Maxwell, that's probably not very practical. That's just too much geometry to work with.

If you use 'Maxwell Hair', I would find out what it's using for guides and, if possible, create that type of guides from Lightwave. If this is possible, that's probably going to be the most efficient approach. However, if it requires curves, you might be out of luck because I don't believe you can use UV mapping with curves in Lightwave.

Alternatively, you can render the fibers in a separate pass in Lightwave and composite it with the Maxwell render. If you need help breaking out the FiberFX render, I have a few tricks for doing this that may help.

G.

seghier
06-03-2015, 01:31 PM
maxwell can not read guide but can import object ; the problem with iv map of the skin
yes what i will do is render the fibers in lightwave than use photoshop for composition ; maybe the developer update the plugin soon :)
thanks again ; of course any help or tricks will help me
this an example of what i did
128497

Greenlaw
06-03-2015, 01:41 PM
Very cute! :)

seghier
06-03-2015, 02:28 PM
thanks :)

jasonwestmas
06-03-2015, 05:15 PM
maxwell can not read guide but can import object ; the problem with iv map of the skin
yes what i will do is render the fibers in lightwave than use photoshop for composition ; maybe the developer update the plugin soon :)
thanks again ; of course any help or tricks will help me
this an example of what i did
128497

So maxwell can render maxwell hair with the use of 2point poly chains from modeler lwo object? You're getting some nice results whatever you are doing. Or are you guiding the hair direction some other way?

seghier
06-03-2015, 09:58 PM
if you polugonize hair you can import the mesh in maxwell
but it's better if the maxwell plugin can export hair from lightwave like in 3dsmax and blender ; in this case maxwell read the hair with its texture and we can modify the tips radius
i created the hair of the mouse with lightwave using the guide of course :) with some textures to control density ; scale and length
the example of the monkey created with blender ; blender is faster than lightwave when creating hair