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tgraph
12-04-2003, 04:27 AM
Newtek peoples
why?
Lightwave is a super modeling tool !!!!!!!!!!
but why the your Radiociti render is a SLOWEST render on this Earth!!!

to hard to contact with http://www.vrayrender.com/

Nemoid
12-04-2003, 07:13 AM
read a great article about Vray some time ago, and I have to say that its a good rendeer, with good features at all. Its a renderer conceived for 3DMax, so I don't know if Nt will support it in the future.

Lw renderer is good, but unfortunately not so fast , even if we dunno if Nt worked at it for [8] release. if so, maybe we will have some good surprise in radiosity calculation and speed too.

But actually i believe that we will see some great rendering progress in releases like 8.1 or.2

Finally, I'd like more a reworked enhanced Lw rendering engine. with alot of great features, but built in the package, than an external renderer wich is not PRenderman.

ok a connection with Mental Ray or Vray or other can be good, maybe as a separate module we can buy or not, but I'd like better to se Lw engine grow.

This will allow to Lw to be more complete and rounded app, not forgetting about unlimited rendering nodes wich always Nt give to us!!

tgraph
12-05-2003, 11:03 AM
only 1 reason to use 3dsmax => VRAY!!!!
mentaray and PRmanis to hard for Architekture

the support of Vray is great -
free version of Vray wiyh limited features
free Demo of eweri reliis
great site for support www.vray.info
easy to use to

yeah we just must wait for LW 8.1 or 8.2 or 8.5 :(

Nemoid
12-05-2003, 04:26 PM
Can understand your reasons, but, to me there's no good reason to be negative. in Lw[8 Nt focused in developing CA tools because that was a great weak point of Lw, and they developed other features.

however first of all we don't exactly know if rendering is improved or not.
Also, I seriously think that rendeting will be enhanced greatly in future releases, wich will come on a more aggressive basis being one near to the other,so the rendering will be work out soon!!

I personally am the first wich wants to see a good connection with 3rd party rendering engine like Mray or Vray, for very special tasks,but I also think Lw rendering engine have to be enhanced first.

Thinking to a greatly enhanced Lw renderer with unlimited rendering nodes makes me :drool:

P.s: thanx for the link to Vray site, though.

zeno
12-07-2003, 07:07 AM
tgraph...
why not use "baking illumination" in LW... it's gonna calculate GI, lighting, etc, in the 1st frame....
is that what you want to get from Vray, right?... (just like vray, don't use it for the character animation, only good for moving camera)

Panikos
12-07-2003, 09:33 AM
Read this :

http://www.vrayrender.com/home/comments.html

Baked illumination works sometimes but is not sufficient.

Baked illumination doesnt consider animated elements or surfaces that are subject to camera motion, like Reflections/Refractions.

LW is an animation software and not a snapshot generator.

This is better than VRay :
http://www.finalrender.com/products/feature.asp?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36&FID=375

If LW wants to stay in business, it has to be ahead, like used to be in the past. Rendering engine is aged.

Nemoid
12-08-2003, 03:38 AM
Lw rendeer is surely old, and we know years are ages in CG, but its a good rendering engine at all, with a movie quality final output. and unlimited rendering nodes wich allow also a small studio to build its own renderfarm without wasting large amount of money.
Enhancing Lw renderer, making it faster is the first thing to do allow the renderer engine to return to its great place. then there are issues regarding better GI algorythms, AA and smth in the lights to have to be reworked.

for what concerns other rendering engines wicha re surely good, notice also that they are faster, because they can use a " cheap " way to calculate reflections and bouncing, avoiding to calculate everything, and therefore giving fast but not so accurate results especially in difficult materials like glass and other. Or at least you can choose to make them calculate this way wich is very fast.

the very great feature I like regards map based displacement, wich give good results avoiding to use geometry. this honestly I saw was particularly good, especially in Vray.

however I don't think that Nt will stay there and see ither renderers grow and grow. they will enhance rendering if not completely in 8, very soon. :)

Mylenium
12-08-2003, 07:48 AM
Well, honestly I don't think there is any potential for one of the MAX plugin renderers to come to LW. All of them (VRay, Brazil, FinalRender) are pretty much developed with MAX as the target and rewriting them for LW would almost be impossible because LW uses different paradigms (and the respective companies may not want to spend the time, money and effort on making an LW version). There may be some way of getting "open" renderers such as Renderman and Mental Ray, but beyond that I don't see a way. Even then we will only have a part of their feature set, since for instance in LW adaptive tesseletion is not possible (it would require a new type of object/ plugin class).

Mylenium

Panikos
12-08-2003, 07:53 AM
Mylenium, from a development point of view, I agree.
As you wrote, these companies tailored their code to MAX long time ago, and they are specialized in MAX.
Porting to LW is like starting from scratch, and by the time they would finish, it will cost many $$$$$ and the industry will be years ahead already.

Newtek should plan the next generation of LW, with short-term, mid-term and long-term development based on the new era and technologies available today and tomorrow.

cappie
12-10-2003, 02:50 AM
If anything, they should look to finalrender's render engine..

The render engine is what made me go for Lightwave when was looking for something worthy of my time :p, however.. I'm more and more tempted to switch to other packages now my modelling skills are well beyond the beginner stage. :(

For instance, I would like to see more detailed radiosity stuff in Lightwave (I'm no expert on radiosity, GI or photon mapping, but I would like to play with those settings or at least be able to change the settings to get the most out of my renders)

C'mon guys.. 8.1, 8.2.. but get it in there before 8.5 ships (or is available for download)

Lightmaster
12-13-2003, 11:51 PM
I dont really see the point for an external renderer or even for mental ray support. The renderer in lightwave can reproduce any of the outputs from those programs. The thing I would like to see lightwave add to put them up with renderman is a micropoly system. I mostly do human animation and I get some pretty dynamic camera movements and it would be really handy to have a micropoly renderer of lightwaves strength behind them.

Lightmaster
12-14-2003, 12:24 AM
And I honestly dont think the speed is that bad. I have a little piece o crap hewlett packard myself and radiosity still does fine, but it flies on the dual processing station I use at school. I think speed will be solved by not so future computing strength.

tgraph
12-14-2003, 09:47 AM
architecture- indoor lightning, big scenes with milions of polygons

Intercaster ;o)
Overcaster ;o)
500 000 or 1 000 000 polis with Radiocity - NEWER


VRay renders unlimited polys
Metin Seven

Today, Chaos Group revealed one of the key features of the upcoming VRay version - unlimited geometry rendering.

This key feature enables users to use as much geometry polygons as they need. This used to be and still is a limit for major number of raytracers. As raytracers require to load all of the geometry to work properly, this can be quite an issue when dealing with big amounts of geometry, as it can not fit into the RAM.