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View Full Version : LW SDK changes for particle modifiers, It is needed for particle advection/turbulence



prometheus
05-25-2015, 04:18 AM
One of the things that have kept me away for not investing in TurbulenceFD, that is the feature of using particle advection, in cinema4d that is possible..which means the ability to push particles with fluids, now..Jascha mentioned it should be possible in lightwave in some later versions, but I think it clearly was something that was much harder to do than he might have thought from the beginning.


He did imply that it should arrive in some beta version according to this...
"Re: Particle Advection ..when?

Postby jascha ŧ 18 Sep 2012, 10:58
It'll be in a v1.0 update (as opposed to not-until-v2). At this point i can't be more specific."



I have asked about it in the forums and it has been unanswered for years...not long ago though, there was a reply from jasha that states this...

"Re: Particle Advection ..when?

Postby jascha ŧ 26 Mar 2015, 14:01
Unfortunately, the LW SDK doesn't support particle modifiers in the way that's necessary to implement this feature."

I would urge the the LW team to take a serious look at enhancing the particle system to make it more compatibly with above mentioned topic, as well as digging in deep to get particles work with bullet and nodes in a much more flexible talking way to other components in lightwave.

Love lightwave ..but I am starting to be more and more convinced that I simply need to invest in either cinema4d or max with fumefx and thinking particles, or houdini indie if I canīt use turbulenceFD to its full potentional and if it is limited based on the LW sdk compared to what you can acheive in many other software fluid systems.

Cheers.

Michael

prometheus
05-26-2015, 06:40 PM
+1

Every4thPixel
05-27-2015, 08:05 AM
It would be nice if particles could be driven by a TFD sim but I don't think its a good reason to not invest in TFD because it's still a really good plugin. What kind of specific animations are you planning to make with the feature you're requesting?

prometheus
05-29-2015, 01:18 AM
It would be nice if particles could be driven by a TFD sim but I don't think its a good reason to not invest in TFD because it's still a really good plugin. What kind of specific animations are you planning to make with the feature you're requesting?

It could be a good reason to choose the better half that
takes use of the full features in turbulenceFD, like cinema4d does.

There are many many things I would like to employ particle advection for, but I am not keen on listing all of it at this time, sorry.
to use hvīs alone to render out particle simulations driven by fluids is one, and that you canīt do without the particle advection or a seperate krakatoa license.

There could be fluids pushing particles and then you would like to attach instances on those, so the fluids actually push around objects.
and thereīs even more

So I donīt agree with you, I think itīs an important missing feature, perhaps jascha should lower the pricing of turbulence for lightwave, since it isnīt having the same features as in cinema4d, though you canīt blame him really for that.

Every4thPixel
05-29-2015, 01:58 AM
If you could use krakatoa with TFD that would be a cool feature but I really don't understand that you don't see the power TFD has to offer without particle advection. It's not that big of a deal. In 9 out of 10 times you won't probably need it. It's a bit like saying: "NO I don't want to drive that Ferrari, it has no spare wheel, I don't want to take that risk!" At least I used it so many times on several jobs That TFD payed itself back many times. I never missed the particle advection feature but that doesn't mean you have a valid point here. I'm with you here.

LW3DG Please fix the particle stuff!!!!

prometheus
05-29-2015, 05:28 AM
If you could use krakatoa with TFD that would be a cool feature but I really don't understand that you don't see the power TFD has to offer without particle advection. It's not that big of a deal. In 9 out of 10 times you won't probably need it. It's a bit like saying: "NO I don't want to drive that Ferrari, it has no spare wheel, I don't want to take that risk!" At least I used it so many times on several jobs That TFD payed itself back many times. I never missed the particle advection feature but that doesn't mean you have a valid point here. I'm with you here.

LW3DG Please fix the particle stuff!!!!

I sort of agree with you, as you sort of agree with me :)
But what kind of importance and value particle advection holds for me, is something else for you, and I do think I am in a better position to judge about that in relation to what I envision to do with it, Granted..in most cases and for most people and for what it is
generally used for, it will do well, but I want to push the limits, I do not do payed work for any clients...foremost right now it is a question of reaching what I envision in my mind for advanced particle stuff, if I by any chance would be so lucky as you and to really know that
tfd would pay itself with work done, that would be nice..but it isnīt happening over here and in my position right now.

I agree witth you Apart from I donīt understand the likeness of the spare wheel, where you base your purchase upon what might happen, as to the opposite where you know you canīt reach your target without that sparewheel, that meaning you know you will need to have particle advection to get to the point you have envisioned, without it you donīt.

By the way, I think krakatoa and turbulenceFD talks to each other now, not sure though.

Marander
05-29-2015, 04:49 PM
Love lightwave ..but I am starting to be more and more convinced that I simply need to invest in either cinema4d or max with fumefx and thinking particles, or houdini indie

I would be like to have these kind of features in LW too but to be fair these packages cost you around $4k (C4D Studio / MAX + Plugins) and then you might still need Arnold additionally to have the results you expect... So if you really need this realism why not go for it, but for me it would be a too expensive hobby. Houdini Indie is more affordable but I like to use the software and my content whenever I want and not when I paid for a subscription, just my opinion.

prometheus
05-30-2015, 03:57 AM
I would be like to have these kind of features in LW too but to be fair these packages cost you around $4k (C4D Studio / MAX + Plugins) and then you might still need Arnold additionally to have the results you expect... So if you really need this realism why not go for it, but for me it would be a too expensive hobby. Houdini Indie is more affordable but I like to use the software and my content whenever I want and not when I paid for a subscription, just my opinion.

yeah..that is sort of where the problem is, I would also have to consider changing software due to lack of Lightwave requirements in the Swedish 3d industry business(unless you work it out on your own), so it may end up in hitting two flies in one hit, that meaning investing in new tools better suited for what is out there in swedish job market and what they are lookin for, as well as investing in a toolset that can handle all the advanced particle stuff for both personal and maybe job work, but it is too speculative for the moment..have to wait and see if the Lw team do anything at all with the particle system first in the next update, ground core changes to allow for a particle system to work with bullet is almost a must I think, so letīs see if they do anything about that first...and when doing so perhaps they take a note of necessary sdk changes that would allow for turbulenceFD to work to itīs fullest potential.

itīs not a ..I am just doing this for hobby thing, nor it is a I am doing this for job thing, itīs a Potentionall thing of doing all of those ..when needed and when that moment arise, or possible options to make those moments happen.

Michael

Marander
05-31-2015, 12:16 AM
Yes I understand you. Maybe you can buildup skills in the meantime in another package which is more popular in Europe. LW seems almost non-existing or unknown here. I still think its very capable and I'm looking forward for the next update. For me personally PRR / substance support is a killer criteria for upgrading. To be honest I doubt particle system is on top of their list but I would love to see an update of HV and volumetrics.

Cheers, Marander

Edit: did you consider having a closer look at blender for its fluid / fire / smoke features?

prometheus
05-31-2015, 05:29 AM
Yes I understand you. Maybe you can buildup skills in the meantime in another package which is more popular in Europe. LW seems almost non-existing or unknown here. I still think its very capable and I'm looking forward for the next update. For me personally PRR / substance support is a killer criteria for upgrading. To be honest I doubt particle system is on top of their list but I would love to see an update of HV and volumetrics.

Cheers, Marander

Edit: did you consider having a closer look at blender for its fluid / fire / smoke features?

About blender, once I download the latest build and install it, i will check and consider, never been fond of the UI though...need to try those options first though.


Yeah..itīs almost listed in priority as below... I would say based on what I see in the job ads.

1. max
2. maya
3 cinema4d
4. sketchup :)

there is a few single one mans show companies doing some simpler stuff with presentations in lightwave, so I will probably make contact and see if there could be job openings, though I see they arenīt doing that well and are probably struggling by themself to get client work.

I really donīt recall ever have seen a job ad with Lightwave requirements over here in sweden, what I see is when stumbling on some companies that have used it very little.

A little of topic..

Newtek & lightwave group should seriously consider releasing free learning versions, just as Autodesk does, there will be a lot of new jobs coming up I think in relation to construction work, and of course Autodesk rules with max,vray, revit autocad...and with a lot of youngsters getting guarantee of either getting a job or trainee or some sort of education within 90 days of unemployment, and I am sure there will pop up courses and more education places to take use of Autodesk free learning versions, as well as take use of what is industry standard for vizualisation in construction....stockholm is growing in population quite rapidly and the government is putting away a lot of money soon for growing buildings and homes.

I might need to focus on doing archviz or visualization of processes instead of fiddling with particle works...it sure is fun but that isnīt enough.