PDA

View Full Version : New email from Newtek, still not a deal



drclare
12-03-2003, 08:55 PM
So who got the new email from Newtek once again promoting the DFX+ with upgrade to LW 8 deal? Looks like there is still no chance of them including us, or reducing to price to what it used to be.

Ade
12-03-2003, 11:11 PM
I think the deal was that cheaper MACS for print deal..trouble was it isnt available unless u live in USA...


I still say LW8+worley or XDOF plugs..

jin choung
12-04-2003, 12:01 AM
actually,

as a pc user, this really irks me as well... just from the perspective of fairness....

if i were a mac user, i would be very very very pissed off.

if you don't rectify this newtek, just give up on the mac market altogether cuz this is really not going to help the whole 'good will' thing....

jin

archiea
12-04-2003, 01:29 AM
well, the issues of parity in the deal is out of NT control IMHO....

Digital Fusion is a PC only product, and NT has had a relationship with Eyeon for a while.....

The closest thing to DF on Apple is Shake, and Apple ins't as forthcoming, I suspect as Eyeon for making deals. DF is hungry and they have segmented their product line to accomadate entry level version of their package (DFX+).

Apple has only one Shake, no shake lite, and are perhaps too busy telling everyone how its earned Weta acadamy awards to care if MAC USERC CAN GET A DEAL ON SHAKE W/ LIGHTWAVE... In fact they had such a deal with maya before, so take from that what you will....:mad:

jin choung
12-04-2003, 01:35 AM
no it's not.

drop a $100 or two from the upgrade price or buy them the DF dongle so that they can at least have something they can sell....

it is fully in their control. it may hurt more than giving out a dfx+ but they should have thought this whole thing through a bit better.

and they're just taking way too long in dealing with everything it seems -

the hits just keep on coming but they're just cooling their heels.

time to start biting bullets and putting up.

jin

drclare
12-04-2003, 01:53 AM
Ahh, a Mac sympathetic PC user. We've been waiting for you. I bet if some PC users started complaining to Newtek that this deal wasn't fair they would start listening;)

Beamtracer
12-04-2003, 01:54 AM
Hi Jin, thanks for thinking of us Mac users!

I guess for Newtek it must be a choice of balancing the extra Windows sales they get from the Windows-only DXF+, against upsetting probably at least a third of their Lightwave customers (the Mac users).

I can't remember any other software companies doing a promotional offer like this, where the company has a cross-platform product, but they do a promotion that includes only one of those platforms.

jin choung
12-04-2003, 02:34 AM
howdy fellas,

as i say, it's just a matter of fairness and i'll bet most pc users ARE sympathetic to your plight.

errr, it's just a matter that more of them don't step into the mac forums that often and it's not technically our fight so trying to maintain some propriety i guess. heck, i've felt this way from the outset but hadn't said anything cuz i figured there's NO WAY newtek's not gonna fix this soon - but alas, if they keep their word with the release schedule, we're coming up on release (imminent release!) and no resolution for the problem yet?!

give me a break. like i said, they gotta get off their asses and if there's no solution in sight, they gotta chop your price. DO SOMETHING!!!

i mean what are they doing? what are they contemplating? how deeply is that thumb up their butt?! DO SOMETHING!!! YOU CAN ALWAYS DO SOMETHING!!!

and i will wager that all the pc side feels the same way. heck, if you're interested, go to the pc forums and have a survey. we'll get your back.

i KNOW it won't be easy for newtek. they'll have to contend with the inevitable mails pc folk, 'i don't want or need dfx+, can i just get the mac price yadda yadda'.

yes yes and yes. it will be a headache.

but again, THEY SIMPLY MUST BITE THE [email protected]#[email protected]#$ING BULLET! GET OFF THE *** AND DO SOMETHING!!! DECISIVENESS!!! ARTICULATION!!! THEY MUST ADDRESS THE BALL AL-freakin-READY.

they were the architects of the fiascos that they must survive - so just DO SOMETHING!

and that applies across the board to a wide variety of areas these days - including what is or is not getting done with modeler!

i won't say newtek is alone in mac bashing. heck alias doesn't MAKE an unlimited mac version and i'm sure that side is pretty peaved about that....

but all of them should be grateful that i'm not a mac head. otherwise, they would have to contend with some mighty incessant and loud drum beating, threats, insults and other unsociable acts of tantrum throwing.

jin

drclare
12-04-2003, 03:16 AM
hear hear!

mrunion
12-04-2003, 09:47 AM
I'm a PC user. I'm not unsympathetic. But NewTek can sell what they want to who they want. There is Mac software I can't use, and I'm not whinning, nor are thousands of other PC users.

Please don't think I'm starting a flame post -- I'm NOT. I respect everyones right to choose their software, platform, where to spend their money and who to marry. Please -- NewTek doesn't manufacture PCs OR Macs. NewTek is offering the best deal to the most users it can. Many Mac users have PCs and can use DFX+. Some don't.

Don't get angry and start calling things unfair. *Life* is unfair! Also, "fair" is relative. I don't know how many Mac users there are in the world, nor do I know how many Mac users use LW, but I know that Macs do not sell as many machines as PCs. I know that businesses target the largest market. You do the math. If it makes you mad, I can't help it. And yes, I'd have the same attitude if I was on the "short end" of the stick.

I regretted leaving Commodore for PCs, but I had to choose -- stay where I was and get no where, or move to the light....

Again, I respect ALL of you and DO understand. But it is NOT NewTeks responsibility to ensure that every person that has ever bought their stuff stays happy forever! If you do not like NewTek and refuse to buy their stuff, it is unfortunate, but is still your choice.

jin choung
12-04-2003, 10:56 AM
hey matt,

but what you're not seeing is that whenever anyone brings up 'life's not fair', it's basically telling the other party to go [email protected]#$ off.

what i mean is, 'life's not fair' but you don't give money to people who treat you unfairly.

so basically, your attitude would logically lead to '[email protected]#$ this, i'm out of here'.

THAT IS A VALID POINT.

but, the assumption here is this:
1. newtek wants to keep their mac customers.
2. mac wavers want to stay.

reread what you wrote... basically, the only option at that point is for somebody to cut loose and scram. as i say, that is a valid point but this discussion is operating under the two assumptions i've stated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

actually, it has occurred to me that newtek does NOT have the resources to do their mac versions justice anyway.

it seems they barely have the resources to be doing a single version.

and actually mac folks, i don't say this as a pc user but imagining how i would feel if i were a mac head....

i'd rather stay at home than go to a party where i'm the unwelcome guest.

and this is the other possibility that matt's valid point brings up.


jin

mrunion
12-04-2003, 01:24 PM
Please, forgive me for any impression I have made.

I never meant to tell anyone to "@*&%-off".

I do really understand the frustration, though. Honestly. I just wanted to express that the frustration -- though definintely justified -- might be getting misdirected?

Again, forgive any impression of crass-ness I may have presented. Definintely, that was not my intentions!

Chuck
12-04-2003, 01:42 PM
There is no offer that we have ever made that ever appealed to all customers or potential customers, and every special of any sort that we have ever offered has generated both praise and complaint. Just as a personal observation, the same is true of every special offer I've ever seen from any company.

We think it is perfectly reasonable for only the folks who wish to own and use DFX+ to purchase the special offer, and for folks who do not wish to have and use DFX+ not to purchase at this time and to wait for an offer that does interest them. We are looking for opportunities that would be of particular interest to Mac users or would have multi-platform appeal. So far we have not been able to put something reasonable together, but we're still working on it and we're certainly considering all the appropriate possible options for our Mac customers. We can understand that the time this has taken just to date is wearing for folks who would like to have an appealing offer that fits their platform and their needs - we're grateful for any patience that has been extended and we'll do our best to honor and reward that patience.

Chuck
12-04-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by jin choung
actually, it has occurred to me that newtek does NOT have the resources to do their mac versions justice anyway.

it seems they barely have the resources to be doing a single version.

and actually mac folks, i don't say this as a pc user but imagining how i would feel if i were a mac head....

i'd rather stay at home than go to a party where i'm the unwelcome guest.

and this is the other possibility that matt's valid point brings up.


jin


This is completely false and wrong. The fact of the matter is that we do a far better job of parity in the product than any other major 3D application, and we are dedicated to taking better advantage than ever of the strengths of the Mac platform. Our Mac users are neither unwelcome guests nor second class citizens, and we are in fact making specific efforts to grow our Mac user base.

Scott Gammans
12-04-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
Our Mac users are neither unwelcome guests nor second class citizens, and we are in fact making specific efforts to grow our Mac user base. Hmm. How can you grow your Mac user base if LightWave doesn't run correctly on the only O/S that Apple sells?

mlinde
12-04-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Scott Gammans
Hmm. How can you grow your Mac user base if LightWave doesn't run correctly on the only O/S that Apple sells?
That's not fair. At the time of it's release (last fall) 7.5 ran on all iterations of Mac OS.

Just because Apple has upgraded it's software and Newtek hasn't released a patch, you come and [email protected]& about 10.3. There are plenty of Mac users and owners who don't just have new machines with 10.3, and Lightwave will run on all of those.

I suppose that if M$ had a forum where people could complain, everyone who wants a G5 could complain that Virtual PC doesn't work on the G5, right?

This has been hashed, rehashed, and beaten into the ground until the pulpy mess isn't even recognizable as an issue. The fact that 10.3 and 7.5 are incompatible is a fact, but FOR CRYING OUT LOUD let it be. Now you've expressed your opinion on this in multiple topics in this forum. Do you feel better?

<sarcasm>
If not can I suggest you change your sig to include a note about how LW doesn't work with 10.3? That way everyone everywhere in this forum will get to hear it again and again.
</sarcasm>

Beamtracer
12-04-2003, 05:00 PM
I agree with Michael. Most new OS releases break some software, especially complex software.

What matters is that it doesn't take too long for a new compatible version of that software to be released. Scott (Newtek's Scott) said that they have LW8 working well on the test bench with Panther. It can't be too long before it's released.

I'm still very uneasy about the DFX+ deal. I don't think the numbers will be as good as they look at face value.

Formula:
(Extra DXF sales) - (people who would have bought LW8 anyway) - (peaved Mac users) = profit

Chuck
12-04-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Scott Gammans
Hmm. How can you grow your Mac user base if LightWave doesn't run correctly on the only O/S that Apple sells?



Originally posted by mlinde
That's not fair.

Actually that's a fair question, one that we sure asked ourselves pretty darn quick, and certainly one that put a heckuva pothole in front of our drive-wheel, so to speak. Obviously we have to resolve the issue, and that's made a bit complicated by the fact that we're full tilt on LightWave 3D [8] development at the time Panther knocks [7.5] for a loop. We've covered the status before - we know we're fixed for [8], we're evaluating what to do in regard to [7.5]. We'll post as soon as there's a decision. Certainly there are plenty of potential customers among Mac users who already have systems and are not using Panther; but we also want the product to be available to those who just bought the latest Mac with the latest OS.

mamurphy
12-04-2003, 06:10 PM
Hey Chuck,

You take all of this with class and professionalism and you serve NT well as a messageboard mouthpiece.

I personally have no problem with the dfx offer being for PC only, because I never had a need for it, nor did I expect to purchase it before NT offered it as a deal...so, I'm not really losing out.

I assume once [8] is out, the dfx offer will no longer be available so users can buy a copy or upgrade without 'feeling' left out or screwed.

And maybe the price point will reflect that..or not.. that's the beauty of capitalism. Supply and demand baby!

Ade
12-04-2003, 06:15 PM
I have a great deal Newtek could include:

Buy LIGHTWAVE 7.5 now and receieve a working version of screamernet!:D

BUT Atleast Newtek messages us back about problems asap...They do care its just that theyre extremely busy..!

Seriously again I always said CHUCK, how about a Lightwave deal with some Worley plugs or stuff like Realflow or Xdof etc...

Call it the Mac Lightwave Extreme effects deal...!

Beamtracer
12-04-2003, 11:13 PM
I wonder how Newtek knows how many Lightwave sales go to Mac people and how many to Windows people.

The "duo" system is fantastic, allowing people to by one software package and use it on either Mac or Windows machines.

The downside is that it would make it impossible to get accurate statistics on what machines people are using.

Chuck
12-05-2003, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
I wonder how Newtek knows how many Lightwave sales go to Mac people and how many to Windows people.

The "duo" system is fantastic, allowing people to by one software package and use it on either Mac or Windows machines.

The downside is that it would make it impossible to get accurate statistics on what machines people are using.

Users have to register and get the permanent license key, which lets us know the platform. The Duo dongle has different internal key numbers for Mac and Windows platforms, and so the user's reg file will show whether we've issued one (and which one) or both platform keys to the user.

Scott Gammans
12-05-2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
That's not fair. At the time of it's release (last fall) 7.5 ran on all iterations of Mac OS.It's a perfectly fair question. When a representative of NewTek states that his company is actively marketing to Apple users despite the fact that their flagship product doesn't run correctly on the only version of OS X available for sale, I'm going to call him on it.

Originally posted by mlinde
Now you've expressed your opinion on this in multiple topics in this forum. Do you feel better?No, I don't. I won't "feel better" until NewTek issues a clear, unambiguous announcement regarding their plans to deal with this mess. NewTek could have easily avoided all of this controversy way back in October by simply stating that they were either going to release a patch or not. Instead, they have been dragging their feet for over six weeks with no end in sight. I really don't understand why it is taking this long to make a decision.

NewTek either needs to tell Mac users that a patch is forthcoming or to go pound sand, and until they do so (or until a moderator tells me to lay off) I'm going to keep beating the drum on this subject. The only logical explanation for their corporate silence on this issue is that they have no intention of releasing a patch but they don't want to say so outright because of the (understandable) backlash that would ensue. If that's the case, they should have gotten it over with six weeks ago--rip the Band-Aid off, so to speak, and let it be done with. I'd be willing to bet that if they had done that (announced that there would be no patch), there would have been some moaning and groaning for a few weeks, and then we all would have moved on by now. Instead, they have let this situation fester and molder, which serves no purpose but to keep the controversy alive and cause increasing ill-will amongst Mac users. This is no way to treat customers.


Originally posted by mlinde
<sarcasm>
If not can I suggest you change your sig to include a note about how LW doesn't work with 10.3? That way everyone everywhere in this forum will get to hear it again and again.
</sarcasm> <taking your suggestion seriously>
What a marvelous idea.
</taking your suggestion seriously>

wizlon
12-05-2003, 09:01 AM
When/if I choose to upgrade to [8], I dont care if I get DFX+, but I would like a printed manual instead of just a electronic download!

I like to read the manual for my software cover to cover, wherever I happen to be; in bed, sitting in my comfy armchair, on the bus or even on holiday, having it in html or pdf only is a real upgrade turn-off for me.

Chuck just give me $100 off and or a printed manual, then I'am happy.

mlinde
12-05-2003, 09:42 AM
Scott (Gammans), I see that you are very frustrated, and I'm sure I've done nothing but exacerbate the problem with my replies. I'm going to start a poll, with this exact topic, for the Mac folks, to get feedback to Newtek (in numbers).

Scott Gammans
12-05-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
Scott (Gammans), I see that you are very frustrated, and I'm sure I've done nothing but exacerbate the problem with my replies. I'm going to start a poll, with this exact topic, for the Mac folks, to get feedback to Newtek (in numbers). I don't take it personally--this is a discussion forum and we are having a discussion. You and I have a different viewpoint regarding NewTek's (in)actions regarding this matter, and that's cool.

pdrake
12-05-2003, 11:21 AM
when i bought my 7.5 upgrade a couple of months ago, i was offered the manuals in exchange for the dxf bundle. i'm sure they are still offering this.

perry

archiea
12-06-2003, 02:29 PM
PDake....

Manuals instead of the DFX bundle... THATS A GREAT IDEA!!!

Chuck, what about that as a remedy?


Problem is that I don't think the manuals will be available at the time of 8's release....

Also, Chuck, can the manual come as it did in the old dayz of LW... in a binder... You don't even have to include the binder, just prescored pages. that way updates to the manual can be inserted in.

I put my 7 manual in a binder... what a difference!!!! The pages stick out like some delicious grilled cheeze sandwich... sorry I havn't eaten yet...:rolleyes:

As far as the LW deal, like I said before... LW 8 upgrade cost $495.. period. Either you want it or not. Any bonus is a plus...

As far as Panther and 7.5.... I don;t see Panther adding any Production critical features to a computer. So why upgrade to panther if you are in a production critical environment or timeline? This never made sense to me. Yes, Adobe and other developers have released new patches, and I salute them. Should NT have anticipated this and prepared for it? probably... But its clear that 7.5 has problems w/ pather, so stay away from panther...

...and stop playing with that Expose key... you're getting me dizzy!!!!

Beamtracer
12-06-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by archiea
I don't think the manuals will be available at the time of 8's release. What? No manuals? Where did you get this info from?

Something good should have been offered to Mac users. I don't think the DFX+ deal was a good thing. It's not worth getting a few extra sales (from people who would have bought Lightwave 8 anyway) but in the process upsetting a large proportion of the user base (Mac users).

Now Mac users are left with a perception (whether true or not) about Newtek's attitude to the Mac. This is not good for Newtek, who will have to work hard to repair the damage.

drclare
12-06-2003, 04:39 PM
That's a good point, Newtek has said that they still value us Mac users, but actions generally speak louder than words!

RonGC
12-06-2003, 06:03 PM
Chuck,

Give me a rock solid LW, call it version 7.6 that functions well without losing site of it's preferences, that i can count on hanging in all through a render without crashing. That i can count on being there for me in a production time crunch and i will forgive Newtek anything :-)

As it stands now iv'e been having to use Cinema 4d instead of Lightwave on time critical projects because i can not count on LW on the Mac.
This would mean that i could upgrade to LW8 and still have a Production solid LW7.6 to work with until 8's bugs get worked out, and there will be Bugs, there's always Bugs :-)

To me that is more valuable than all the Dxf+ freebies on the planet....

This is a Pro program and i would like a Pro Product, i believe thats what i paid for.

Respectfully Yours ,

Ron cartier

drclare
12-06-2003, 08:07 PM
You're right, there are always and will always be bugs. What i am hoping for from 8 is, since although there will be bugs, i would like if all of the features in 7.5 that don't work as they should to be completely fixed. If there are bugs in the new features of 8, although yes that will suck since new features are always fun to play with, but it won't be as hampering to the work that we are doing, and we will just have to wait for new updates. But if LW 8 is a rock solid version of 7.5, with some new stuff, that would be good.