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prometheus
05-02-2015, 10:28 AM
Just throwing out a question about your favourite procedural, the intention for this thread is to serve as a guide and help for anyone, and maybe for future development of new procedural textures to help an aid people to do nicer landscapeīs with lesser work.
Some of you might just go and use worldmachine or geocontrol or vue, or terragen, or even get usg hight maps or painting in photoshop etc...while that is all fine and dandy, I want this thread to be more of focus on what you are using as procedural and mixing with other procedurals etc...for those of you that do use the procedurals.

Some procedurals may not looks so nice with default settings..and requires a lot of tweaking or inverting etc, itīs a bit of tweaking sience to get it right depending on what you aim for of course.


Cheers.

Michael

truthdigger
05-02-2015, 03:00 PM
Wow, i was just about to post on this subject and saw yours' about going procedural instead of using image maps. E-on presently has a 30% off sale going on till the 3rd on the Artist series and i was thinking about getting Complete, simply for the ease and speed of creating large landscapes, instead of LW.

BUT, the other day i had thought of using procedurals because for one, i can't find ANY photo-realistic HQ textures of snow and rock and two i've seen a few Blender tuts of some really awesome looking snowy mountains using just procedural techniques. However, up close i don't think procedurals would look very convincing (unless a lot time was spent tweaking it of course). Maybe using it for large objects 'in the distance' would be best, i don't know. Any opinions?

p.s. Since it's so hard to find, specifically, good mountain range textures (which has been my experience anyway, as i did find some descent ones), i wouldn't mind working at and even creating some procedurals we could maybe share here on the forum.

prometheus
05-02-2015, 03:48 PM
Wow, i was just about to post on this subject and saw yours' about going procedural instead of using image maps. E-on presently has a 30% off sale going on till the 3rd on the Artist series and i was thinking about getting Complete, simply for the ease and speed of creating large landscapes, instead of LW.

BUT, the other day i had thought of using procedurals because for one, i can't find ANY photo-realistic HQ textures of snow and rock and two i've seen a few Blender tuts of some really awesome looking snowy mountains using just procedural techniques. However, up close i don't think procedurals would look very convincing (unless a lot time was spent tweaking it of course). Maybe using it for large objects 'in the distance' would be best, i don't know. Any opinions?

p.s. Since it's so hard to find, specifically, good mountain range textures (which has been my experience anyway, as i did find some descent ones), i wouldn't mind working at and even creating some procedurals we could maybe share here on the forum.

I would say vue is still the premiere package for landscape and atmospheres, especially for stills.
Rendertimes and pricing/licensing is another issue to deal with depending on what you aim for, but that is a different matter so to speak, not sure If it is worth going in to deep between difference in working with lightwave VS vue...vue
has some better suited fractals for landscape generation..in fact a lot more I think that is better suited for terrain, apart from that it has erosion, paint sculpting bla bla bla..and a bunch more for terrain work including a true volumetric spectral enginge.

for Lightwave fractals...I tend to like the ridged multifractal, and use previous layer gradients on top of that for different levels of heights etc, and on top of that..additive layers of another ridged multifractals..and even some more, itīs when you start tweaking and mixing layers of fractals some interesting stuff happens.

128083


128084

shrox
05-02-2015, 03:56 PM
I use main procudurals for landscapes, no pixels when you get close.

prometheus
05-02-2015, 04:25 PM
I use main procudurals for landscapes, no pixels when you get close.

You mean when texturing, and not referencing displacements?


By the way..since we were talking about fog somewhere :) I will put up a small vid sample of using the sunsky atmosphere which sort of add a volumetric atmosphere, itīs not truly volumetric raymarching..but gives that extra atmosphere touch..wich I am starting to get the hang of now, though it is recomended to have a lightwave version with VPR and using that, which might not fit your bill.

Michael

prometheus
05-02-2015, 04:53 PM
this little post is not exactly related to this topic and the actual procedural stuff for terrain...rather the sunsky atmosphere showcase...
watch in 720p, the full hd was screwed up somehow by the youtube conversion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxmCg6dPHGc


Michael

truthdigger
05-02-2015, 07:12 PM
...for different levels of heights
Yeah, i've noticed using just one/two layers isn't enough if you want something like a high mountain peak, as the fractals seem to 'stretch' exponentially causing the peaks to become too 'pointy', so yeah that's a good idea. I just used 4 layers (2 turbulence, 1 ridged multi, and 1 dented) to create a type of 'dark' Harry Potter looking Mt. Will upload when finished (settings too).

Thanks for the tip. Yeah Vue's features are vast. I might buy Complete for times sake alone. I'm still an intermediate user though so i don't know. Vue may indeed have all those nice features, but i heard you lose some of them importing into LW. I wish Vue's animation kit was as good as LW's so i could stay in Vue without having to change programs. Same with ZBrush - what i create there i want to be "exactly" the same after importing into LW. I've heard you can get pretty close, but not exactly the same. I might just stick with LW, cause i hate cutting in details you lose later due to the import/export process.

shrox
05-02-2015, 09:34 PM
You mean when texturing, and not referencing displacements?


By the way..since we were talking about fog somewhere :) I will put up a small vid sample of using the sunsky atmosphere which sort of add a volumetric atmosphere, itīs not truly volumetric raymarching..but gives that extra atmosphere touch..wich I am starting to get the hang of now, though it is recomended to have a lightwave version with VPR and using that, which might not fit your bill.

Michael

I use it for both actually.

seghier
05-02-2015, 11:58 PM
i never tried that in lightwave ; i will try it
i see blender tutorial to create terrain ; vue and terragen and tutorial how to use google earth to create realistic terrain in 3dsmax
i think using google earth give nice result + procedural texture

- - - Updated - - -

i never tried that in lightwave ; i will try it
i see blender tutorial to create terrain ; vue and terragen and tutorial how to use google earth to create realistic terrain in 3dsmax
i think using google earth give nice result + procedural texture

prometheus
05-03-2015, 07:23 AM
i never tried that in lightwave ; i will try it
i see blender tutorial to create terrain ; vue and terragen and tutorial how to use google earth to create realistic terrain in 3dsmax
i think using google earth give nice result + procedural texture

- - - Updated - - -

i never tried that in lightwave ; i will try it
i see blender tutorial to create terrain ; vue and terragen and tutorial how to use google earth to create realistic terrain in 3dsmax
i think using google earth give nice result + procedural texture

That is height map images, you can also get more higher detail through usgs ...itīs a bit tricky to use though, you also need to set up an account, but it is free.

http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/

otherwise...get worldmachine.


But we need to get back on track for lightwave procedurals...:)

prometheus
05-03-2015, 07:45 AM
one thing to keep in mind, landsat data do not often have that amount of detail down to meter resolutions, so the data is often looking more continent or large mountain area in the style when you apply it, I do not know how commercial ones are looking, probably higher res.
so for landscape you would like to put humans or large vehicles etc in to, using a special designing software or lightwave modeling and procedurals would be easier to get the right look.
so..many of the map data you get from usgs or google...I donīt think they hold up so well for close encounters.

Michael

prometheus
05-03-2015, 10:51 AM
hereīs a little layer by layer showcase with a mix of image map and procedurals, note...watch in 720, not in full Hd, somehow youtube has started to screw up those conversions, need to check why



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihsYiiw8_rQ

image map and procedural textures mix.

819 200 polys based on a 20x20 divided grid at subpatch level 5, at level six it reaches over 3 millions..3-8 millions is for high level detail terrain, but this showcase is enough when recording.

The image map..a simple 4096x4096..though it wasnīt necessary with that kind of map that has not much of detail, I processed it with som slight gaussion blur to get rid of banding..saved in tif format.

procedural rock layer from dpontīs rman collection, is blended in additive mode.
Another gradient alpha layer with distanced to object makes the rock only appear on top of the main shape.

another procedural with ridged multifractal, and noise typ set to sparse convolution...for finer surface detail, this layer could probably work nicely only as bump or normal map though.
the ridged multifractal, noise type sparse convolution is important, the others do not give the same pattern...and some of the noise types are too much of repeating quadratic patterns, though the sparse is much slower..the only other (noise typ) within the ridged multifractal I mostly use, that is the value noise..which donīt have that repeating style as the others.
offset, threshold and lacunarity is very important to fine tune right, a simple value change could make it look very non realistic.

Michael

prometheus
05-03-2015, 10:59 AM
Yeah, i've noticed using just one/two layers isn't enough if you want something like a high mountain peak, as the fractals seem to 'stretch' exponentially causing the peaks to become too 'pointy', so yeah that's a good idea. I just used 4 layers (2 turbulence, 1 ridged multi, and 1 dented) to create a type of 'dark' Harry Potter looking Mt. Will upload when finished (settings too).

Thanks for the tip. Yeah Vue's features are vast. I might buy Complete for times sake alone. I'm still an intermediate user though so i don't know. Vue may indeed have all those nice features, but i heard you lose some of them importing into LW. I wish Vue's animation kit was as good as LW's so i could stay in Vue without having to change programs. Same with ZBrush - what i create there i want to be "exactly" the same after importing into LW. I've heard you can get pretty close, but not exactly the same. I might just stick with LW, cause i hate cutting in details you lose later due to the import/export process.

I think the workflow is better to animate in lightwave, send camera and proxy objects to vue, and render all landscape and vegitation and atmosphere there, and maybe only render some special animated object inside of lightwave.
exporting terrain to lightwave, donīt think that is a good workflow, you might as well just use worldmachine or geocontrol and export, preferably at resolutions over 4000x 4000 or 8000x 8000

prometheus
05-04-2015, 07:14 AM
Strange...some textures can be overlayed with interesting results you never thought it would look like...heres the block procedural with gives the result of some smaller flowing detail.....




http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128110&d=1430745173

128110

seghier
05-04-2015, 09:00 AM
nice result
how you can create nice texture ? like in terragen or worldmachine ....

prometheus
05-04-2015, 05:49 PM
nice result
how you can create nice texture ? like in terragen or worldmachine ....

Can you specify that question a bit more, I do not quite follow you what you are asking about wether based on something Ivé done or if something is possible to do?