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robertoortiz
04-25-2015, 09:05 PM
American software giant is readying a bid after private equity owners Carlyle put the firm up for sale last year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/privateequity/11562472/Adobe-eyes-200m-bid-for-British-visual-effects-firm-The-Foundry.html

lightscape
04-25-2015, 11:51 PM
Only a matter of time...subs and rental

Nicolas Jordan
04-26-2015, 12:14 AM
This doesn't really surprise me.

CaptainMarlowe
04-26-2015, 12:15 AM
And how long would they keep both AE and Nuke before killing one of them ?

lightscape
04-26-2015, 12:18 AM
And how long would they keep both AE and Nuke before killing one of them ?

Different markets.
Its a win win for Adobe.

raw-m
04-26-2015, 02:13 AM
Came as a surprise to me! Wonder how that would effect the ae/c4d setup if Adobe were to get Modo?

erikals
04-26-2015, 02:27 AM
Modo Rental... get ready for it... !

if you see the microscopic updates to Adobe PhotoShop through the years, it casts a dark shadow over "Adobe Modo"

but hey, who knows, let's hope i'm wrong, but the rental thing, sucks, and always will (!)

hrgiger
04-26-2015, 03:06 AM
Well it sucks that subscription is the only option but its not a bad deal for everyone. If Adobe adds the Foundry's lineup of software to its cloud service and keeps the price in a somewhat reasonable area, could be quite a deal for some. I'm sure they'll raise the price of cloud but they wouldn't have to raise it substantially to earn back that 200 million quickly with the numbers of Foundry users they would add who would likely continue using the software.

But its not set in stone yet that Adobe will buy The Foundry.

Wickedpup
04-26-2015, 03:28 AM
if you see the microscopic updates to Adobe PhotoShop through the years, it casts a dark shadow over "Adobe Modo"
(!)
Are you suggesting they will be entering the same "lack of development" realm that Lightwave has been in for some time? :hey:

cresshead
04-26-2015, 03:50 AM
if true..btw there's no quoted source for that 'story'' then Adobe are the first of the bidder to emerge from the shadows to place a bid.

doesn't mean they are the only bidder
doesn't mean they are serious (no source from adobe was quoted)
doesn't mean they are the winning bidder...yet.

lightscape
04-26-2015, 05:52 AM
If adobe does buy the foundry I hope they do a better job than the luxolgy team and take Modo further and beyond than what it is now which is just a unified lightwave.
At this point in time with destructive workflow, slow viewport and data handling, the tool dropping workflow, just doesn't cut it compared to the more flexible, modern and powerful workflow in houdini, maya, max, c4d, blender.

erikals
04-26-2015, 06:16 AM
Are you suggesting they will be entering the same "lack of development" realm that Lightwave has been in for some time? :hey:

LightWave 11 was Great...

LightWave 2015... not so much, lets see... maybe there will be a 2015.5 at Siggraph...

Wickedpup
04-26-2015, 06:35 AM
Point being? When you say PS has had microscopic updates through the years you are generalizing (I remember some PS updates that where great, just to compare with LW 11) ..and then you should do the same with LW....think the thread aptly titled "LW's development or lack thereof" illustrates my point....

erikals
04-26-2015, 06:45 AM
-- Point being?
guess i'll have to explain...
-- When you say PS has had microscopic updates through the years you are generalizing
yes
-- remember some PS updates that where great, just to compare with LW 11
extremely few PhotoShop updates have been great
-- ..and then you should do the same with LW
i am, i do...
-- think the thread aptly titled "LW's development or lack thereof" illustrates my point....
yep, and i'll wait with judging LW 2015 until Siggraph...

at least NT had an excuse with the Core meltdown...

LW8 - Great
LW9 - Great
LW10 - Not so great, except VPR
LW11 - Great

robertoortiz
04-26-2015, 06:54 AM
Came as a surprise to me! Wonder how that would effect the ae/c4d setup if Adobe were to get Modo?

I was thinking the same thing.

Surrealist.
04-26-2015, 07:13 AM
If the foundry is bought by Adobe and suddenly this means access to all of the offering as a part of the cloud this would be very interesting. However, keep in perspective the pricing. It would likely look more like Autodesk offering than the current Adobe subscription. The total of what is currently in the Adobe cloud (full membership) does not even add up to the cost of Nuke Studio on perp licenses. We'd be looking at around 20k ish all told in software value including everything, just off the top of my head without bring out a calculator.

So it would be more like in the hundreds of dollars per month if you wanted all of the Adobe stuff, Nuke Studio, Mari and Modo etc., if we are just to follow the math. Who knows what they have in mind, but it could be interesting none the less. Access to full versions of Mari and Nuke alone would make it a very cool thing for a lot of people who otherwise would not have it.

hrgiger
04-26-2015, 07:13 AM
LightWave 2015... not so much, lets see... maybe there will be a 2015.5 at Siggraph...

There wont be. Not if there's going to be a LW 2016.

ianr
04-26-2015, 07:53 AM
Its not but when,
modo adobed.
It was a half paged piece on the front page
of the Sunday telegraph ,business section.
Definately a ' City -timed leak' + a crude pix
of Cruise in Edge of Tomorrow.
We'll see on Monday trading more.

erikals
04-26-2015, 08:03 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngerikals    maybe there will be a 2015.5 at Siggraph...

http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pnghrgiger    There wont be. Not if there's going to be a LW 2016

well, if so, i'll jump to plugins etc this time...

-TurbulenceFD *
-3rd Powers
-LWCad
-TAFA *
-Houdini Indie *
-RealFlow
-InfiniMap *
-3DCoat *
-Octane w/plugin *
-PhotoShop *
-Rhiggit *
-Syflex *
-Advanced Placement
-UVLayout
-Perception Neuron *
-PhotoScan
-AHK *
-Re:VisionFX DeNoise
-Quixel
-CrazyBump / ShaderMap / MindTex

* already have these...

Wickedpup
04-26-2015, 08:15 AM
extremely few PhotoShop updates have been great
Looking at the Photoshop version history I would say that featurewise a LOT of it is not what I would call "microscopic".......CC maybe....but then we are only talking last 2 years.


at least NT had an excuse with the Core meltdown...
Excuse for what? It was their own doing, so no need to exclude that from the version history....unless like in your case one needs to make it look prettier than it actually is.



LW8 - Great
LW9 - Great
Insert Core here..... 3 (?) years of wasted time and dicking cutomers around, makes for a different read......



LW10 - Not so great, except VPR
LW11 - Great

brent3d
04-26-2015, 08:19 AM
well, if so, i'll jump to plugins etc this time...

-TurbulenceFD *
-3rd Powers
-LWCad
-TAFA *
-Houdini Indie *
-RealFlow
-InfiniMap *
-3DCoat *
-Octane w/plugin *
-PhotoShop *
-Rhiggit *
-Syflex *
-Advanced Placement
-UVLayout
-Perception Neuron *
-PhotoScan
-AHK *
-Re:VisionFX DeNoise
-Quixel
-CrazyBump / ShaderMap / MindTex

* already have these...

Don't forget HDR Studio!! with VPR or Octane that program is a time saver!

lightscape
04-26-2015, 08:24 AM
Its not but when,
modo adobed.
It was a half paged piece on the front page
of the Sunday telegraph ,business section.
Definately a ' City -timed leak' + a crude pix
of Cruise in Edge of Tomorrow.
We'll see on Monday trading more.


modo adobed. Adobe+Modo = Adodo?

http://www.efvi-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/dodo.png

brent3d
04-26-2015, 08:31 AM
Yup!:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

robertoortiz
04-26-2015, 08:49 AM
modo adobed. Adobe+Modo = Adodo?

http://www.efvi-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/dodo.png
I see what you did there...
Lol
I hope to God adobe is not doing this just for the patents.
The problem with Nuke is the 300 pound Gorilla that Adobe is very fond of called After Effects.

jasonwestmas
04-26-2015, 09:26 AM
lol, Congratulations to all those paranoid CG enthusiasts out there. Makes me want a lightwave rewrite even more now.

I guess it could be worse, but in a way it's just as bad as the worst. When is Autodesk going to put up their bid. Clearly those are the only two forces it seems to care about buying out other CG software companies. I guess maxon is the third?

ianr
04-26-2015, 09:29 AM
Yea, Lightscape..... Top Bannana!

Quoted="modo adobed. Adobe+Modo = Adodo?"

You see I couldn't figure that out, cos I'd had

too much Zider down the country pub!

Anyway, if Financial Times-pink sheet prints it

tomorrow.. it's Kosher!!!

m.d.
04-26-2015, 09:32 AM
Modo Rental... get ready for it... !

if you see the microscopic updates to Adobe PhotoShop through the years, it casts a dark shadow over "Adobe Modo"

but hey, who knows, let's hope i'm wrong, but the rental thing, sucks, and always will (!)

Have to disagree slightly on photoshop....I mean you have 3d space...with ray tracing, 3d painting, 3d printing, video editing, and a ton of other little features...content aware stuff

It is probably the best example of the most mature content creation app in existence....all its functions are equal or better then all its competitors, and has loads of features none of the others have.

While updates may not be earth shattering, Photoshop is the one app that may eventually be hard to think of new features to add.

Adobes other products have had stellar updates...PPro has improved by leaps and bounds and overtook the competition
The subscription thing sucks of course....I am debating switching after years of use just because of it, but as far as the power of a company as a software developer...you would be hard pressed to find a company with more power to develop then Adobe

erikals
04-26-2015, 09:52 AM
yes, they did have some good ones, not saying that...
mentioning the good releases of PhotoShop was something that i left out on purpose, like the 3D update.

not so sure about the video editing, don't see that as a big one, but yep, absolutely nice PhotoShop upgrades > at times


Photoshop is the one app that may eventually be hard to think of new features to add
PhotoShop is excellent, but it bugs me that not until CS4 they had click-drag shortcut brush size adjustment...
i can mention a dozen other things... some >

(no text on curve before CS)
(destructive workflows before CS4, and after)
(destructive filters before CS4)
(destructive liquify before CS4)
$70 PhotoLine solves all of these things, and has a bunch of other better tools...

JohnMarchant
04-26-2015, 10:11 AM
modo adobed. Adobe+Modo = Adodo?

http://www.efvi-uk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/dodo.png

Yeah and we know what happened to the Dodo.

jasonwestmas
04-26-2015, 10:18 AM
I don't get the analogy, Adobe doesn't own a program like modo at all and afterFX has a different user base than the nuke user base. Maybe Brad P. or somebody can explain that to adobe. ;)

Ryan Roye
04-26-2015, 10:20 AM
I'd rather Modo go to adobe than Autodesk. Adobe at least has an actual reason to want Foundry products for something other than killing the application(s), and Nuke offers a nodal editing workflow that After Effects does not, which means it provides another choice under the same company. The cost will go up of course, but at least competition in the 3d application market won't shrink further.

lightscape
04-26-2015, 10:23 AM
Show me the money Carlyle

http://www.carlyle.com/carlyle-video/modal/13111/field_video_upload?no_cache=1

The Carlyle Group

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

jasonwestmas
04-26-2015, 10:48 AM
I'd rather Modo go to adobe than Autodesk. Adobe at least has an actual reason to want Foundry products for something other than killing the application(s), and Nuke offers a nodal editing workflow that After Effects does not, which means it provides another choice under the same company. The cost will go up of course, but at least competition in the 3d application market won't shrink further.

yup, after thinking about it the rental only thing is the worst aspect of Adobe. Adobe is less likely to kill off products that many of us enjoy. The only reason why autodesk is developing maya so quickly is because they are obviously focusing most of their resources on it.

Fourthly, the face of Carlyle group is disturbing in that they don't appear to understand the power they have in their hands. So I'm glad they are selling. Focusing on today's profits and not looking at the big picture is kinda dooming in my opinion. But that's just my small perspective on things.

bazsa73
04-26-2015, 11:42 AM
One day it's going to be Autobe anyways.

Netvudu
04-26-2015, 12:02 PM
To me, it doesnīt look that terrible to Modo, but itīs not good news for Nuke...IMHO.
Not only because of After Effects, but because the kind of support and development that high-end production requires will never be provided by Adobe. It hasnīt in the past, it wonīt in the future. Adobe is totally oriented to the prosumer market and to the graphic designer, way more than to anything remotely high-end and I donīt think purchasing anything is going to make them say "hey, letīs change our global policy, now that we are earning millions with our current m.o".
I presume that Modo will retain its current user base, which is more oriented to the freelancer and the graphic designer anyway, and letīs be frank, currently with the exception of the modelling tools, itīs a product way far from high-end production. Of course, they will move to a rental model.

And Mari, I fear it might be borg-liked assimilated into Photoshop eventually, in a similar fashion some of Macromedia tools were back in the day, after Adobe acquired them.

jasonwestmas
04-26-2015, 12:13 PM
To me, it doesnīt look that terrible to Modo, but itīs not good news for Nuke...IMHO.
Not only because of After Effects, but because the kind of support and development that high-end production requires will never be provided by Adobe. It hasnīt in the past, it wonīt in the future. Adobe is totally oriented to the prosumer market and to the graphic designer, way more than to anything remotely high-end and I donīt think purchasing anything is going to make them say "hey, letīs change our global policy, now that we are earning millions with our current m.o".
I presume that Modo will retain its current user base, which is more oriented to the freelancer and the graphic designer anyway, and letīs be frank, currently with the exception of the modelling tools, itīs a product way far from high-end production. Of course, they will move to a rental model.

And Mari, I fear it might be borg-liked assimilated into Photoshop eventually, in a similar fashion some of Macromedia tools were back in the day, after Adobe acquired them.

So you are now hoping for black magic or maxon then?

Netvudu
04-26-2015, 12:52 PM
oh, Iīm not hoping for anything. I think that for any company to loose development independency is a bad move, only understood by economic factors, which after all is what actually drives the market.
Personally, I can work with Fusion, Nuke and AE, all three, and they all have their merits and problems.

lightscape
04-26-2015, 11:01 PM
One day it's going to be Autobe anyways.

Autodesk + Adobe = Microsoft? :D

roboman
04-26-2015, 11:37 PM
sad to see mondo turn into an asset that gets passed from buyer to buyer. Lightwave got picked up as two pieces and developed by a company that was driven by people wanting to make tv production open to any one. Guess you can only hope that mondo gets the same kind of deal. Not sure what Adobe cares about right now.

bazsa73
04-27-2015, 12:13 AM
So cool being an independent app user. I would go mad if LW were handed over to a gigantosaurus.

Dexter2999
04-27-2015, 01:54 AM
Autodesk + Adobe = Microsoft? :D

Microsoft already played with 3D. They owned Softimage back in the 90's.
They sold to AVID.
AVID sold to AutoDesk.

gerry_g
04-27-2015, 03:52 AM
Think Microsoft wanted Softimage to showcase Windows 2000's then advanced capabilities from what I read and had no more interest in it than that, Adobe wanted Micromat because it was a competitor and damaging Adobes own product line up, The Foundries suite of products on the other hand would compliment Adobes existing portfolio for the most part and it would not be the first time it has bought in from outside, besides who else is likely pony up the kind of wonga for this kind of purchase and why, Smith Micro anyone :)

safetyman
04-27-2015, 05:51 AM
Modo + Adobe + Subscription + stagnant development = Lightwave FTW.

souzou
04-27-2015, 06:18 AM
Maxon could be a big loser in this move imho. Adobe would surely want to push Modo so C4D lite in AE could be dropped like a hot potato (or left to wither).

If you look at the Macromedia merger several products were left to die; Director, Freehand, Fireworks eventually. Dreamweaver only stayed because GoLive was so bad. I do wonder how many Foundry products would survive. And people criticize the speed of LW3DG development but Adobe is positively glacial with it's core software, particularly bearing in mind the size of the company.

I also wonder if this would be the good excuse Adobe needs to have tiered subscriptions (increasing prices/revenue).

robertoortiz
04-27-2015, 06:49 AM
Maxon could be a big loser in this move imho. Adobe would surely want to push Modo so C4D lite in AE could be dropped like a hot potato (or left to wither).

If you look at the Macromedia merger several products were left to die; Director, Freehand, Fireworks eventually. Dreamweaver only stayed because GoLive was so bad. I do wonder how many Foundry products would survive. And people criticize the speed of LW3DG development but Adobe is positively glacial with it's core software, particularly bearing in mind the size of the company.

I also wonder if this would be the good excuse Adobe needs to have tiered subscriptions (increasing prices/revenue).

Great post.

lightscape
04-27-2015, 06:49 AM
Modo + Adobe + Subscription + stagnant development = Lightwave FTW.

blender+artist = starving artist, or part time artist waiting tables or living with mom in the garage working on awesome indie project. FTW

raymondtrace
04-27-2015, 08:11 AM
While updates may not be earth shattering, Photoshop is the one app that may eventually be hard to think of new features to add.


This is the reason why Adobe moved to the subscription model.

Waves of light
04-27-2015, 09:26 AM
I also wonder if this would be the good excuse Adobe needs to have tiered subscriptions (increasing prices/revenue).

That would make perfect sense... they could do subscription levels, similar to the Web Premium, Master Collection approach they had with CS versions.

ianr
04-27-2015, 11:35 AM
The Foundry Forums are starting to light up.

From what I can see their thought/mantra, whatuwill

for the day IS........" Bail out for Blender "


I wonder if 'push comes to shove'

that Rob.P might do a offer,

A Prodigal Son-Returning Special for 'Em?

mav3rick
04-27-2015, 11:36 AM
so after adobe acquires The Foundry it will make all Foundry apps go single thread since adobe is clueless to develop multithreaded apps. its a shame that in 2015 after effects is totally worthless rendering on multithreaded cpu

erikals
04-27-2015, 12:39 PM
but luckily, finally it looks like Adobe will have some future competition...

HitFilm - Davinci Resolve - PhotoLine - PhotoPlus - Affinity Photo
many many more...

dballesg
04-27-2015, 02:13 PM
blender+artist = starving artist, or part time artist waiting tables or living with mom in the garage working on awesome indie project. FTW

You're kidding right?

Thomas Helzle
04-27-2015, 02:35 PM
Hm - that would be weird, Adobe buying The Foundry.
I can't see much sense in it.
So far they never understood the 3D/Movie pro-market.
Probably they would either tear down the applications for spare parts (or dumb them down to the Adobe level) or would have to change their ways considerably - can't see the latter happen anytime soon though.
I don't see any of those applications fitting into the Adobe world as they are, Cinema 4D is a much better fit to the general AE user than Modo, same for the other stuff.

Could go the way of Softimage... RIP.

For what it's worth: I'm very happy with LW 2015 (the Layout part) and hope the team continues to work along those lines, making it more stable and more versatile.
In a recent job where I had the VPR running all the time, I didn't have one single crash, even when switching to Modeller and back, something that used to kill Layout sooner or later.
My only real gripe is unification, I can't enjoy working in Modeller anymore.
Otherwise all the changes make a lot of sense to me and are very helpful.
Since LW more and more becomes the "Last Man Standing" of 3D, I think the team needs all the support we can give them.
If they would go, what's left?
There simply isn't a single 3D application on the market that works as well for me as a freelancer in my line of work.

I wouldn't have thought they could survive so long and hope they will do so a lot longer without selling out.

Cheers,

Tom

erikals
04-27-2015, 03:04 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngThomas Helzle    Could go the way of SoftImage...
https://xsisupport.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/jurrasic_park__ilm_cgi_before_n_after.gif

Yog
04-27-2015, 03:12 PM
I wonder if 'push comes to shove'

that Rob.P might do a offer,

A Prodigal Son-Returning Special for 'Em?
No, probably Blender would be the first choice.

Thomas Helzle
04-27-2015, 03:23 PM
https://xsisupport.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/jurrasic_park__ilm_cgi_before_n_after.gif

LOL - exactly like that... Adobysaurus Rex...

Cheers,

Tom

lightscape
04-27-2015, 11:13 PM
so after adobe acquires The Foundry it will make all Foundry apps go single thread since adobe is clueless to develop multithreaded apps. its a shame that in 2015 after effects is totally worthless rendering on multithreaded cpu

Adobe is clueless with 3d in general. Its going to be fun to watch what they try to do with modo if they do buy TF. They're going to dumb it down completely.

spherical
04-28-2015, 01:31 AM
Adobe is clueless with 3d in general. Its going to be fun to watch what they try to do with modo if they do buy TF. They're going to dumb it down completely.

Exactly right. Bigger market that way. Just look at SketchUp.

lightscape
04-28-2015, 05:31 AM
Exactly right. Bigger market that way. Just look at SketchUp.

Is Sketchup on subscription? :D

safetyman
04-28-2015, 05:43 AM
blender+artist = starving artist, or part time artist waiting tables or living with mom in the garage working on awesome indie project. FTW

Not sure what you're talking about. I was trying to convey that this could be a good thing for LW if Adobe holds to form and cannibalizes Modo, then kills it. Heck, they might not even be interested in Modo at all, just The Foundry's painting and compositing tools. Modo could just be a "bonus" throw in. I hope not, but look at what Adobe did to all the Macromedia tools like Fireworks and Freehand.

bobakabob
04-28-2015, 04:48 PM
The Foundry Forums are starting to light up.

From what I can see their thought/mantra, whatuwill

for the day IS........" Bail out for Blender "


I wonder if 'push comes to shove'

that Rob.P might do a offer,

A Prodigal Son-Returning Special for 'Em?



Ian, Yes, absolutely. Newtek's independence is a major plus in this new austere world of subscription only software. Investing in LW creates a sense of ownership. We are very lucky to be here wasting time jaw jawing on this forum. If LW ever disappears I'm giving up 3d and going back to pencil and paper.

I love LW but use Maya also... Mostly in tandem with Lightwave 2015 a lot. Don't like the fact the former is owned by Autodesk and that it's so vastly overpriced. The two apps nevertheless work brilliantly together. I much prefer LW's superb nodal surfacing and rendering whereas Maya is fast and responsive if you're into CA. LW3DG have done a great job with FBX and animation cache filing, making LW play really well in pipelines with not just with Maya but ZBrush and After Effects. As great as Maya is you can create and render scenes with incredible speed in LW.

If Maya gets increasingly expensive, inaccessible or elite, I'll dump it. LW has Genoma for CA or the excellent RHiggit tools

lightscape
04-28-2015, 10:48 PM
Carlyle group owned Beats headphones and sold it off to Apple for a huge profit.
How do I get into this group :D

jburford
04-29-2015, 12:26 AM
blender+artist = starving artist, or part time artist waiting tables or living with mom in the garage working on awesome indie project. FTW


What kind of Nonsense or Trash is that Comment??

I know some Artists pushing out Great Work in Professional Environments and Films Daily here in Frankfurt, including it being used in ARD's Tatort Series (under the Radar, not a big known fact) which is a Top runner as TV Films goes here in Germany. (And don't forget, Blender is ahead of LW in lots of areas)

Megalodon2.0
04-29-2015, 01:22 AM
blender+artist = starving artist, or part time artist waiting tables or living with mom in the garage working on awesome indie project. FTW


You're kidding right?

Yeah, I thought that was a tad arrogant mixed with quite a bit of naivete.

lightscape
04-29-2015, 01:37 AM
My reply was in response to the equally non-sense post
Modo + Adobe + Subscription + stagnant development = Lightwave FTW

And no I'm not kidding. Anyone hanging around game mod, indie forums would know that a vast majority of prolific blender users are working for the lowest wages or even free, living in their parents basement types. Skype conversations are like "yeah dude".
Sure there are some companies using blender but they're also using cracked maya, 3dmax in the background because clients want projects made with industry standard software. The funny one I encountered was using "educational" version of 3dmax in the UK while creating paid game mods with blender for a racing game. As if that would make it less illegal.

Megalodon2.0
04-29-2015, 02:09 AM
And no I'm not kidding. Anyone hanging around game mod, indie forums would know that a vast majority of prolific blender users are working for the lowest wages or even free, living in their parents basement types. Skype conversations are like "yeah dude".
Sure there are some companies using blender but they're also using cracked maya, 3dmax in the background because clients want projects made with industry standard software. The funny one I encountered was using "educational" version of 3dmax in the UK while creating paid game mods with blender for a racing game. As if that would make it less illegal.

Looks like I'm going to have to ask you which stock to choose when I go to invest since you seem to KNOW IT ALL. :neener:

I was right, arrogant. :ohmy:

jburford
04-29-2015, 02:41 AM
Sure there are some companies using blender but they're also using cracked maya, 3dmax in the background because clients want projects made with industry standard software. .


NONSENSE

Oh, Really?? What all companies might that be? Using Cracked versions of Maya or 3DS Max in the background because clients want projects made with industry standard software. Bull S. . . .

Clients want their Needs to be met and their Projects Completed to their Needs and Specifications. They could give a Rats A. what it is done on, the finished Product is what they are paying for and interested in.

Ok, then let me say this, on my Day Job (Supporting of all the Edit Suites and Graphic Department), at Hessischer Rundfunk (Hessen Radio and Television), part of the German ARD (First German Channel), there is over 1200 Employes at Hessischer Rundfunk, with around 40 Editing Suites, 8 Newsrooms, 3 Virtual News Centers using Ventuz, 10 Radio Channels, and around 60 Graphic Artists. And spread out in locations in Hessen as well as in North Africa and Madrid. (and if you think, that we are small, our Annual Budget runs in the Millions)

The 3D Work being done for Films in Frankfurt is SOLELY being done in Blender now for the last 2 Years!

And, over the past 8 Months, at least 30 Artists were trained In-House for at least 1-2 Weeks on BLENDER. . . . .

HR has NO Cracked versions of any production software running anywhere, has though around 10 Licenses of Cinema 4D Studio, and Autodesk 3DS MAX both on Support Subscriptions. Which is now being looked at on dropping, saving the thousands spent on subscriptions and moving primarily to Blender.


Please stop putting out Trash!




Afterthought. / PS There is also 2 old licenses of Lightwave 3D Version 7 lingering around with dusts on the boxes.

seghier
04-29-2015, 04:27 AM
i read some posts
i am new in lightwave ; i tried since years maya and 3dsmax and i have student versions ; i never right now understand how use maya and i never used modeling tool in 3dsmax
i used only blender because it's very easy
when i used lightwave i like work with it and find all modeling tools are very nice and quickly we find them ; the interface is not modern with beautiful icon but the texts are very useful and save time to search or remember all icons
blender have some excellent features better than lightwave but lightwave more professional and save times with modeling and animation
if lightwave will have liquid system ; smoke ; sculpting tools ( like in blender ) ; support dwg files ; it will be excellent software
i hope this post is not out of record ( i use google translate ; sorry :D )

safetyman
04-29-2015, 05:16 AM
My reply was in response to the equally non-sense post
Modo + Adobe + Subscription + stagnant development = Lightwave FTW

And no I'm not kidding. Anyone hanging around game mod, indie forums would know that a vast majority of prolific blender users are working for the lowest wages or even free, living in their parents basement types. Skype conversations are like "yeah dude".
Sure there are some companies using blender but they're also using cracked maya, 3dmax in the background because clients want projects made with industry standard software. The funny one I encountered was using "educational" version of 3dmax in the UK while creating paid game mods with blender for a racing game. As if that would make it less illegal.

How do you relate the whimsical thing I posted to a rant about Blender? You don't make sense and you need to take a chill pill. This thread was about The Foundry being bought out and you turned it into your personal soapbox.

seghier
04-29-2015, 06:32 AM
How do you relate the whimsical thing I posted to a rant about Blender? You don't make sense and you need to take a chill pill. This thread was about The Foundry being bought out and you turned it into your personal soapbox.

is this your thread ?

50one
04-29-2015, 07:31 AM
Well, that escalated quickly!

All is needed are three keywords Blender or Core or Modo :)

jburford
04-29-2015, 07:48 AM
I'll toss ya Lightwave and up ya with Cinema 4D. . . .

and last parting shot. . .

Truespace Calagari and Imagine!

raw-m
04-29-2015, 07:50 AM
...and anything with "wishlist" in the title.

Lito
04-29-2015, 08:47 AM
Carlyle group owned Beats headphones and sold it off to Apple for a huge profit.
How do I get into this group :D

Just buy shares into the company. They are publicly traded under the symbol CG.

robertoortiz
04-29-2015, 11:10 AM
saw this response on the modo forums by Brad Peebler

As for the adobe discussion, as we've mentioned before we are not in a place to comment publicly about the carlyle investment other than to continue to point out that Bill, Simon, CK, Jody, Andy W, Jon W, Mark B and myself are still very much in charge of the company and still very passionate about the products and people that got us to where we are today. Haters gonna hate and crappy journalist will continue to be crappy journalists.

erikals
04-29-2015, 12:18 PM
a link to that one...
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=108087&p=922795

safetyman
04-30-2015, 05:24 AM
is this your thread ? No. Troll much?

I'll rephrase my equation: Modo + (Adobe + stagnant development + subscriptions) = More people buying Lightwave. Is that better? Jeez, some people have no sense of humor.

50one
04-30-2015, 05:53 AM
No. Troll much?

I'll rephrase my equation: Modo + (Adobe + stagnant development + subscriptions) = More people buying Lightwave. Is that better? Jeez, some people have no sense of humor.


Modo + (Adobe + stagnant development + subscriptions) + (People not familiar with LW split app workflow, which for most users is like trying to learn Chinese in three days) = C4D or Houdini or Blender:hey:

libneon
04-30-2015, 09:09 AM
I want to like MODO but the Foundry has obviously gone with the "stick" method rather than the "carrot".

The price is now going up to what, $1,800 with version 9? They charge a maintenance "catch up" if you don't pay maintenance fees each year and the real kicker "An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged." Ha! They actually punish you for wanting to come back and use their product again.

Even their demo is time-limited (which is normal) but there is no sort of learning or discovery edition for MODO. At one point they were charging $25 for a demo of MODO.

The "indie" MODO is even worse. It locks the files you make to your personal Steam account so you can't share them with other artists- even if they're using MODO indie. Not to mention, the indie version blocks the use of all plugins and scripts. It's $299 for indie MODO while even Houdini Indie is less restricted and goes for $100 less.

The writing is already on the wall there that the Foundry makes good software but certainly wants to squeeze every last drop out of customers in my opinion. I want to like MODO, but it just looks like a bad investment for the future, no matter who buys them.

calilifestyle
04-30-2015, 10:00 AM
I want to like MODO but the Foundry has obviously gone with the "stick" method rather than the "carrot".

The price is now going up to what, $1,800 with version 9? They charge a maintenance "catch up" if you don't pay maintenance fees each year and the real kicker "An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged." Ha! They actually punish you for wanting to come back and use their product again.

Even their demo is time-limited (which is normal) but there is no sort of learning or discovery edition for MODO. At one point they were charging $25 for a demo of MODO.

The "indie" MODO is even worse. It locks the files you make to your personal Steam account so you can't share them with other artists- even if they're using MODO indie. Not to mention, the indie version blocks the use of all plugins and scripts. It's $299 for indie MODO while even Houdini Indie is less restricted and goes for $100 less.

The writing is already on the wall there that the Foundry makes good software but certainly wants to squeeze every last drop out of customers in my opinion. I want to like MODO, but it just looks like a bad investment for the future, no matter who buys them.

Modo is only 1495. Don't get me wrong i still think that's kind of expensive.
On another note. Apple or Google could by the company.

libneon
04-30-2015, 10:11 AM
Modo is only 1495. Don't get me wrong i still think that's kind of expensive.
On another note. Apple or Google could by the company.

Ya, I said it's going up with version 9.

"With MODO 901, The Foundry will introduce new pricing for new seats ($1,799)"

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-unveils-modo-901/

Kind of crazy IMO but I guess they think they can get it.

calilifestyle
04-30-2015, 11:05 AM
Ya, I said it's going up with version 9.

"With MODO 901, The Foundry will introduce new pricing for new seats ($1,799)"

https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-unveils-modo-901/

Kind of crazy IMO but I guess they think they can get it.

No way that's nuts. They better have a whole lot of new features added. I can't believe adding mesh fusion (395) alone would justify the price increase. i don't see anything changing for upgrading to 901. haha yeah this what you get when people keep saying they're willing to pay more for it.

jwiede
04-30-2015, 12:01 PM
They charge a maintenance "catch up" if you don't pay maintenance fees each year and the real kicker "An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged." Ha! They actually punish you for wanting to come back and use their product again.

This was already debunked in TF forums, what you're saying is absolutely untrue for individual modo licenses, there is no associated maintenance fee with such licenses let alone a mandatory one.

ianr
04-30-2015, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the detailed post Jburford, don't get me wrong

Please tell me when Babelsberg goes to Blender ?


( I am not being funny, cos that would interesting

in a planning way for me)

mav3rick
04-30-2015, 12:14 PM
I want to like MODO but the Foundry has obviously gone with the "stick" method rather than the "carrot".

The price is now going up to what, $1,800 with version 9? They charge a maintenance "catch up" if you don't pay maintenance fees each year and the real kicker "An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged." Ha! They actually punish you for wanting to come back and use their product again.

Even their demo is time-limited (which is normal) but there is no sort of learning or discovery edition for MODO. At one point they were charging $25 for a demo of MODO.

The "indie" MODO is even worse. It locks the files you make to your personal Steam account so you can't share them with other artists- even if they're using MODO indie. Not to mention, the indie version blocks the use of all plugins and scripts. It's $299 for indie MODO while even Houdini Indie is less restricted and goes for $100 less.

The writing is already on the wall there that the Foundry makes good software but certainly wants to squeeze every last drop out of customers in my opinion. I want to like MODO, but it just looks like a bad investment for the future, no matter who buys them.


time to sell my modo copy....

safetyman
04-30-2015, 12:48 PM
Even though I much prefer LW over Modo at this point, I would be very disappointed to see Modo become a casualty in all this buy-out stuff.

libneon
04-30-2015, 01:24 PM
This was already debunked in TF forums, what you're saying is absolutely untrue for individual modo licenses, there is no associated maintenance fee with such licenses let alone a mandatory one.

I was just looking at the MODO listings over on Sharbor and it is saying it pretty clearly. http://www.sharbor.com/modo-801-maintenance-individual.html

"Once your maintenance runs out, you are not entitled to technical support and product updates.
This means if you do have a problem, or want to benefit from the features in the latest updates, you will have to pay the full maintenance fee for the period your license has been out of date, this is called maintenance back-pay.
An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged."

So...I'm not sure what you're stating? I never said maintenance was mandatory. I said they charge you a catch-up and a possible 50% penalty if you miss a payment period. My point was this seems really ridiculous from a customer standpoint.

CF01
04-30-2015, 01:43 PM
I was just looking at the MODO listings over on Sharbor and it is saying it pretty clearly. http://www.sharbor.com/modo-801-maintenance-individual.html

"Once your maintenance runs out, you are not entitled to technical support and product updates.
This means if you do have a problem, or want to benefit from the features in the latest updates, you will have to pay the full maintenance fee for the period your license has been out of date, this is called maintenance back-pay.
An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged."

So...I'm not sure what you're stating? I never said maintenance was mandatory. I said they charge you a catch-up and a possible 50% penalty if you miss a payment period. My point was this seems really ridiculous from a customer standpoint.

The Modo Individual license uses an upgrade system like Lightwave. You get all service packs up until the next version. There is no time based limit on service packs. I don't know that there is any limits on support. Upgrades from any previous version are the same price no matter how far back you are. There is no back pay.

There is an optional maintenance program for Modo, but few people would opt for it. I believe it is there mostly for those businesses that want their license locked to a machine for security purposes and need a fixed annual cost.

jburford
04-30-2015, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the detailed post Jburford, don't get me wrong

Please tell me when Babelsberg goes to Blender ?


( I am not being funny, cos that would interesting
in a planning way for me)


No problem Ian.

Even it if were to happen, it would never be publicized. Remember way back Disney using Amiga Computers and Software back in the day, but could not publicize nor talk about it since they had an "Official Sponsor" which was a competitor. Or the Chicago Virtual Systems based on the Toaster also, No word behind the Technology when it hit the New York Times.

I believe there are a lot of unsung heros using it day to day, but there is a sort of a negative Stigma against it that they rather go around with a paper bag over their heads than to publicize to largly.

Interesting though, is that it is being more and more accepting into areas and Professional Sites like http://www.evermotion.org/ which used to be 90% Max, then a dabling of the others to include Lightwave and Cinema 4D. Now when you look around and especially at the Tutorials for Archviz, Blender Articles and Tutorials are starting to over take everything else. (can sort on the left side of the Tutorial page)

Oh well, we will see what comes up. .

Cheers

mav3rick
04-30-2015, 02:38 PM
I was just looking at the MODO listings over on Sharbor and it is saying it pretty clearly. http://www.sharbor.com/modo-801-maintenance-individual.html

"Once your maintenance runs out, you are not entitled to technical support and product updates.
This means if you do have a problem, or want to benefit from the features in the latest updates, you will have to pay the full maintenance fee for the period your license has been out of date, this is called maintenance back-pay.
An additional reinstatement fee of 50% of the maintenance back-pay may also be charged."

So...I'm not sure what you're stating? I never said maintenance was mandatory. I said they charge you a catch-up and a possible 50% penalty if you miss a payment period. My point was this seems really ridiculous from a customer standpoint.

hahaha this answers why foundry guys was so nice and prompt to me when they messed up my account migration :) for once i felt wtf? now i know how will they treat me once i skip 901 :)

souzou
04-30-2015, 03:01 PM
Looking at this from the other side, it might end up being really tough on some of The Foundry guys. I mean if you think about it, they raised finance for a management buyout only for that stake to be sold to the Carlyle Group. In the meantime they build the business and products up and make a real success of things, then CG decides to sell, with the most likely buyers competitors that will probably asset strip and junk a perfectly healthy business. Harsh.

cresshead
05-05-2015, 06:19 PM
the adobe buying story has no quotes for any sources either the foundry, the carlyle group or adobe.
it's a non story right now.

just a rumor by a bored newspaper looking to fill a gap in a sunday paper before print.

ernpchan
05-05-2015, 06:49 PM
the adobe buying story has no quotes for any sources either the foundry, the carlyle group or adobe.
it's a non story right now.

just a rumor by a bored newspaper looking to fill a gap in a sunday paper before print.

At this point what's the over/under on what happens first....Foundry getting acquired or pmg's phantom merger.

jwiede
05-05-2015, 07:37 PM
with the most likely buyers competitors that will probably asset strip and junk a perfectly healthy business.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

souzou
05-06-2015, 04:46 AM
Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

It's an opinion, not a statement of fact, based on lots of other opinions (not facts) that Adobe and Autodesk are the most likely buyers and their previous form with acquistions. Hence I wrote "might end up being really tough". I'm clearly not making a factual statement, why do you have to be so pedantic?

ianr
05-06-2015, 06:59 AM
Sorry Cresshead,
I detect a Deep yawn from your Direction well O.k.


But must state this for the Benefit of World Wavers, that the F.T.

Financial Times -pink sheet Weekend-Edition is Not a bored paper.

People move money about on the strength of its Friday press, that's

what it's there for- Money Markets advice between close & opening.

The article was front page on Companies & Markets Section, maybe

could be a leak & Carlyle may have backed away from the exposure.



the adobe buying story has no quotes for any sources either the foundry, the carlyle group or adobe.
it's a non story right now.

just a rumor by a bored newspaper looking to fill a gap in a sunday paper before print.

hrgiger
05-06-2015, 07:04 AM
the bottom line, at least for me is that Luxology gave up control of their company which has led to all this pointless speculation. Its disappointing because it felt like they were building something special with Modo and it was all about the customer and making a product that catered to their users. Now theyre just a cog with a future more uncertain and more out of their control then ever.

Cageman
05-06-2015, 03:52 PM
Modo + (Adobe + stagnant development + subscriptions) + (People not familiar with LW split app workflow, which for most users is like trying to learn Chinese in three days) = C4D or Houdini or Blender:hey:

Looking at ZBrush, I can totally see most, if not all, modeling artists will start using it... so, in a sense, we are moving "back" to a split app workflow... no matter what 3D software is used... Unless ZBrush becomes 100% integrated into all 3DCC apps... ;)

And don't get me started on game engines... as long as those are not integrated into every 3DCC app in the world, we are in many ways, working with "Modeler and Layout" type of workflow... ;)

jasonwestmas
05-06-2015, 03:57 PM
And don't get me started on game engines... as long as those are not integrated into every 3DCC app in the world, we are in many ways, working with "Modeler and Layout" type of workflow... ;)

That's not exactly the same thing though, it's not the division that is the problem, it's HOW they are divided that makes it or breaks it. e.g. There are rigging and animation tools inside of modeler instead of them being in the animation application called layout. :)

So to be fair I have nothing against a dual app. package in general.

Surrealist.
05-06-2015, 07:06 PM
Zbrush new modeling tools are nice. But they do not replace much needed workflow of using an integrated app. It won't make such a wide sweeping change to how most pipelines need to function - in my opinion. And this is not even about rigging and painting. This is just the day to day stuff of having assets within a host app for instances and a long list of other things that add up to as much of a non-destructive pipeline (yes pipeline not workflow) as possible where things are kept "live" all the way up to the final delivery. It is about iterations, easy client changes/fixes, updates and so on. You can already do this in LightWave. Just that it is far more cumbersome. And we are moving toward more real immediate feedback and away from separation of pipelines into segments.

And this is my main beef about Zbrush lately. They seem to have their own custom "pipeline" they are massaging with Keyshot. And also trying to do more things in Zbrush. This is good for a Zbrush centric workflow, for sculpting, visualizations and so on., But have very limited use to the rest of pipelines. The more likely place Zbrush will wind up is in a more specialized workflow or just to bring out the big guns for sculpting. New modeling tools likely will be great enhancement to a Zbrush centric workflow, but not really adopted in pipelines for the very reason it does force you to separate things. I don't see things going that way at all. Just me.

My plans are to use the new modeling tools to enhance my high def modeling, not to really replace the tools I use in my host app for the reasons stated above.

jasonwestmas
05-06-2015, 09:14 PM
sure, Zbrush tools are the "big guns" but that doesn't mean it's niche because it can still handle the more simple designs too, even before R7. "Specialized" is a subjective word and to me using a program like modeler (these days) with all its plugins is far more specialized. It just depends on how someone works and in a lot of cases I start with a high poly version first (and sketch ontop of renders) even when doing simple props or characters. People who use the Zbrush, keyshot, photoshop workflow are usually concept designers anyhow. That isn't exactly a rare need is it?

Surrealist.
05-06-2015, 11:02 PM
No not rare. It is a wide however specialized market. But the point I am making is that this is a great Zbrush release, but the last few releases have been very Zbrush - centric. And it is looking more like they want to be more than just a sculpting app. So this is going in the complete other direction than just being a plug in to other pipelines. That is not where they have been going. They have been adding things like hair and animation and now a keyshot bridge. How long before this expands even further? And Zbrush which was once a 2.5 tool and went through a 3D sculpt and paint phase then becomes a go-to app for visualization where you you don't have to leave Zbrush for basic modeling, can then send your assets to keyshot. This is the polar opposite of a split app workflow - with the execption of Keyshot of course. But I would not be surprised if they bring more rendering into Zbrush.

All apps have been going this way for years now and I have been saying this but no one seems to want to believe me. lol. Oh well, just wait and see where Zbrush is in 2 years and I wager we will be seeing something that offers basic modeling, painting animation and rendering workflow good for the aforementioned specialized market. And beyond that moving into film. Meanwhile Maya will have added all of the Mudbox tools, AD will drop both MudBox and MotionBuilder and move what is not already duplicated in MotionBuilder HIK into Maya. And there will be less and less need to be jumping around. Blender has been all over this from its inception and including Comp and NLE. Funny.

But that is where I see things going.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2015, 08:28 AM
No not rare. It is a wide however specialized market. But the point I am making is that this is a great Zbrush release, but the last few releases have been very Zbrush - centric. And it is looking more like they want to be more than just a sculpting app. So this is going in the complete other direction than just being a plug in to other pipelines. That is not where they have been going. They have been adding things like hair and animation and now a keyshot bridge. How long before this expands even further? And Zbrush which was once a 2.5 tool and went through a 3D sculpt and paint phase then becomes a go-to app for visualization where you you don't have to leave Zbrush for basic modeling, can then send your assets to keyshot. This is the polar opposite of a split app workflow - with the execption of Keyshot of course. But I would not be surprised if they bring more rendering into Zbrush.

All apps have been going this way for years now and I have been saying this but no one seems to want to believe me. lol. Oh well, just wait and see where Zbrush is in 2 years and I wager we will be seeing something that offers basic modeling, painting animation and rendering workflow good for the aforementioned specialized market. And beyond that moving into film. Meanwhile Maya will have added all of the Mudbox tools, AD will drop both MudBox and MotionBuilder and move what is not already duplicated in MotionBuilder HIK into Maya. And there will be less and less need to be jumping around. Blender has been all over this from its inception and including Comp and NLE. Funny.

But that is where I see things going.

heh, yeah I would be one of those that don't believe that Pixo was truly going into a self-contained animation direction; Mainly because I find their texturing capabilities, rendering and posing tools to be very rudimentary. 90% of the development has been strictly modeling and sculpting creatures and small sectionals of a much larger scene. What is far more likely is an animated deformation previz direction which started when they introduced the layering and mdd capture/timeline playback. If they start adding cage deformers, wrap deformers and nice weight painting tools for their zsphere armatures, then yeah you might be onto something. But even then they would also need a robust keyframing system to get any attention at all in that dept. It's too much to compete with and zbrush users aren't typically animators anyway, they are concept illustrators that sometimes double as animated creature builders, setup designers which is not a small or tiny part of the pipeline.

I still have to give the maya 2016 mudbox tools a good trial but I would be surprised if they would be good enough for a regular mudbox session in the next 4 years; Rather I see these sculpting tools being very useful for sub-D cage sculpting for animation and not displacement level sculpting. My opinion is, if Joe Alter's crew can't make a sculpting friendly workflow in 15 years inside of maya then I doubt Autodesk can in far less time. Granted Lbrush may be fundamentally flawed from the beginning for any detailed sculpting. It was painful to use from my end and now it was pulled from the shelf, so I guess it wasn't just me.

So even though there will be similarities between the sculpting/ painting apps and the animation apps (the progs that were built for animation from the ground up). . . The morph target layer stuff pixo has developed with mdd timeline is super useful but I've always seen it as a helpful previz tool while sculpting and designing things FOR animation but the actual keyframing will still have to be done in another package.. I don't see why Zbrush needs to go beyond this since a lot of animation apps. are adding sculpting plugins for creating morph targets.

Anyway, I think you have some good points but are only half correct here. I think the weight is tipping in my favor. ;)

Surrealist.
05-07-2015, 09:46 AM
Yeah I never mentioned character animation in Zbrush. That would be an ambitious expectation right away. But they would not have to do that to enter the realm of film as I mentioned. They have already positioned themselves as a potential solution for environments. And they don't have to be interested in taking over a full on animation pipeline to support my views. Just keep going the way they are going. I don't see the bulk of their development going in one particular direction as you do. I see a fairly even - and in my opinion wasted - parallel development. For them to concentrate on Zbrush as mainly a sculpting tool there are a million things they could be doing to fix issues in Zbrush starting the the retarded interface, the continual reliance on it being a 2.5 tool first so you always have to drag things out and go into edit mode. That is just lame. And the interface - don't get me started. Small little items that are almost impossible to see or click on etc. And just in general they have continued to develop very linear way. Each time they add a new tool it has to fit on one of these ever-expanding pallets and format. They could use some of this time and money to revamp the entire interface and improve the workflow so when you do a simple thing you don't have to scroll around the interface to 3 or 4 different places. You have exported maps for instance correct? In Mudbox and Maya for instance there is a proper panel that comes up to bake and export maps. In Zbrush by the time you are done baking and exporting a map doing all of these same things, you have traveled around the interface in quite a few places. It is because each function was originally coded in one place I imagine. So saving the maps always have to be from the image panel. But baking them is all the way over in the Tool pallet. So you have to then Clone the map send it over and then save it.

This is the kind of thing I am talking about they get neglected overall. But these things are not sexy. Moving things into keyshot and instancing large environments are sexy.

64 bit is good. The continued features they have improved on and all the things they have added are very very nice. But generally, I see them wanting to break out of being only a sculpt tool and break into a broader market, yet keep the sculpting tools alive and they have done that well. That is where they are going. They don't show an interest in going back to fix things they are relying on to continue. For me as a user that is not good. As much as I enjoy it as a tool and what it can do, I always cringe when I have to deal with certain aspects of the program I think need fixing. Again my opinion just using it for sculpting app.

Regarding Maya. Mark my words on this one. Bookmark this thread. The days of the suite are numbered. Just wait and see.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2015, 12:37 PM
Yeah I never mentioned character animation in Zbrush. That would be an ambitious expectation right away. But they would not have to do that to enter the realm of film as I mentioned. They have already positioned themselves as a potential solution for environments. And they don't have to be interested in taking over a full on animation pipeline to support my views. Just keep going the way they are going. I don't see the bulk of their development going in one particular direction as you do. I see a fairly even - and in my opinion wasted - parallel development. For them to concentrate on Zbrush as mainly a sculpting tool there are a million things they could be doing to fix issues in Zbrush starting the the retarded interface, the continual reliance on it being a 2.5 tool first so you always have to drag things out and go into edit mode. That is just lame. And the interface - don't get me started. Small little items that are almost impossible to see or click on etc. And just in general they have continued to develop very linear way. Each time they add a new tool it has to fit on one of these ever-expanding pallets and format. They could use some of this time and money to revamp the entire interface and improve the workflow so when you do a simple thing you don't have to scroll around the interface to 3 or 4 different places. You have exported maps for instance correct? In Mudbox and Maya for instance there is a proper panel that comes up to bake and export maps. In Zbrush by the time you are done baking and exporting a map doing all of these same things, you have traveled around the interface in quite a few places. It is because each function was originally coded in one place I imagine. So saving the maps always have to be from the image panel. But baking them is all the way over in the Tool pallet. So you have to then Clone the map send it over and then save it.

This is the kind of thing I am talking about they get neglected overall. But these things are not sexy. Moving things into keyshot and instancing large environments are sexy.

64 bit is good. The continued features they have improved on and all the things they have added are very very nice. But generally, I see them wanting to break out of being only a sculpt tool and break into a broader market, yet keep the sculpting tools alive and they have done that well. That is where they are going. They don't show an interest in going back to fix things they are relying on to continue. For me as a user that is not good. As much as I enjoy it as a tool and what it can do, I always cringe when I have to deal with certain aspects of the program I think need fixing. Again my opinion just using it for sculpting app.

Regarding Maya. Mark my words on this one. Bookmark this thread. The days of the suite are numbered. Just wait and see.

Have you tried making a custom palette in ZB? That saves a ton of time. Also there is the multi-map Export baker in the plugins menu. That allows fast and easy map creation for several subtools. Granted I can't imagine trying to animate or setting up objects for a complex render project inside of the current interface, it's horrible for that kind of stuff. Point being is that the interface was designed for modeling and sculpting and not for much else. But I do advise people to create custom palettes for buttons you use all the time. So in some ways I do agree with your observations.

I was actually surprised what they did with maya 2016, I'm eager to see how much these changes make a real difference and aren't just for show.

Surrealist.
05-07-2015, 01:40 PM
Yeah great tip on that. It is good that you can do that. It is a saving grace. I'll have to play with that more.

I have a suite and I am not going to upgrade it.

Both Maya and Max got great upgrades. I don't use Max. I would like to learn it. But in what lifetime? But both ModtionBuilder and Mudbox got no love at all this time or really last time for that matter. They were doing some nice things with retopology in Mudbox, but this release got nothing. Some brush functionality that should have been there all along.

And yet on the Maya side Mudbox tools show up. Interesting.

And also notice that the only apps that are affected by the new licensing are stand alone versions. Not even network licenses. So I had a discussion with Rahul (AD sales rep) about this and we both agreed it was going to be very difficult to handle the question of what do you do with all of the suite owners. Offer them a few years lower subscription rate? I mean what incentive do I have to start paying nearly 2x the for the same thing I already have? Thankfully I don't have to as it does not apply to me.

But this opens another avenue to consider. Maybe they don't even plan on continuing suites? Instead just beef up Max and Maya and concentrate on those two markets. MotionBuilder only has a few bits of functionality that Maya HIK does not have. And the biggest thing is the real time aspect. Well, looks like Maya is getting performance love this last release, so that is out. It leaves, Story and a few other things that could be done in Maya just as easy. So I predict MotionBuilder is out.

Mudbox can not compete with Zbrush so what is the point in beefing that up? They say they have big plans with Maya. OK. Interesting. They are down playing the sculpting tools because really it is not going to replace Mudbox soon. But what are the long range plans?

I think everything points to two apps Max and Maya getting lots of love, and then to continue with them, it is going to be the new licensing.

So for this reason I am rolling the dice. Not gonna even spend more money on my suite. As it is I have 2015 versions of Max Maya, Mudbox and Softimage.

XSI is out, MB and Mud are on the way, I don't use Max, that leaves Maya.

I think the XSI and the whole suite thing taught them that it is a waste of resources to be spread too thin. I'd welcome as much of all that in Maya and drop interoperability all together.

jasonwestmas
05-07-2015, 02:09 PM
Yes, I can see maya inheriting all motion builder functionality now. I can't see mudbox disappearing any time soon but who knows. I admit I was one of the people saying that motion builder would not be merged into maya because its performance was unbelievable. But now maya has full on parallel GPU support so that now brings a more than likely scenario to the table.

However, I would eat my hat if max disappeared because it is the largest competitor to lightwave, cinema and modo imo. I think Max is worth a try if you aren't a Lightwave or Modo user. Out of the box, Max is aimed at quick turnaround graphics, animation and environmental/archviz look dev. and has huge 3rd party support. I see the guys at work using max and it's really strong at getting super nice animation into unity with fast setup tools like CAT. They model very quickly in max 2015 too which says something. That seems to be the same target audience as lightwave and modo. I have no idea how Blender fits into all this, but I guess it has a wide range of generalist application.

Surrealist.
05-07-2015, 03:14 PM
Yep fully working sculpt tools in Maya seems like a stretch alright. The reading on the wall seems to indicate this is a very strong potential direction.

Yeah I don't see Max going away. I kind of think they will focus on that and Maya.

I'd love to learn Max but I just can't imagine finding the time right now. It was basically a "gift" from AD when they canceled XSI. I got it as a part of the last upgrade which also included the last version of XSI.

sadkkf
05-08-2015, 11:34 AM
Maxon could be a big loser in this move imho. Adobe would surely want to push Modo so C4D lite in AE could be dropped like a hot potato (or left to wither).

If you look at the Macromedia merger several products were left to die; Director, Freehand, Fireworks eventually. Dreamweaver only stayed because GoLive was so bad. I do wonder how many Foundry products would survive. And people criticize the speed of LW3DG development but Adobe is positively glacial with it's core software, particularly bearing in mind the size of the company.

I also wonder if this would be the good excuse Adobe needs to have tiered subscriptions (increasing prices/revenue).

Totally agree. Although, to be fair, Director died because Flash became so popular. Then Adobe killed Flash.

Does anyone use Dreamweaver anymore?

Edit: Actually, I'm wondering if Maxon would be a winner after this. I'd never buy C4D if it were owned by Adobe, but if it remained as it is, I'd jump on it (funding depending, naturally).

ernpchan
05-20-2015, 01:44 PM
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-announces-new-investment-from-hgcapital/

erikals
05-20-2015, 01:50 PM
ah,... good... i guess... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

JoePoe
05-20-2015, 01:53 PM
See ya..... off to modo. ;)

calilifestyle
05-20-2015, 02:28 PM
Sold

jasonwestmas
05-20-2015, 04:38 PM
Good ol' H.G., we go waaaay back! ;)

Surrealist.
05-20-2015, 07:48 PM
901 is fully revealed tomorrow. I was wondering if they'd tie that in with the new ownership announcement. Fortunately this is good news for Modo development. Unfortunately it means that price will continue to go up. But lets be honest, Modo has really advanced over these last years and will continue to be the commercial app to watch in my opinion. And for what you are getting, I still think it is a good value considering the market. An app I have my eye on to add to the arsenal. Only window shopping at the moment. Will be interesting to see what 901 brings to the steam addition.

jasonwestmas
05-20-2015, 09:53 PM
901 is fully revealed tomorrow. I was wondering if they'd tie that in with the new ownership announcement. Fortunately this is good news for Modo development. Unfortunately it means that price will continue to go up. But lets be honest, Modo has really advanced over these last years and will continue to be the commercial app to watch in my opinion. And for what you are getting, I still think it is a good value considering the market. An app I have my eye on to add to the arsenal. Only window shopping at the moment. Will be interesting to see what 901 brings to the steam addition.

Agreed, lots of great features but still buggy as all get out. Probably the number one reason I'm not using modo for sub-D modeling like I used to. I hope they clean it up.

lightscape
05-20-2015, 10:39 PM
Agreed, lots of great features but still buggy as all get out. Probably the number one reason I'm not using modo for sub-D modeling like I used to. I hope they clean it up.

And the viewport is extremely slow for animation. Its slower than layout.
Destructive workflow still the biggest issue.
I can't use modo for anything else but for asset creation and for that any version older than 801 is good enough.

Surrealist.
05-21-2015, 01:30 AM
Certainly nothing to argue with there, especially since I have not really used it that much. But in general I liked it, when I used it. I am curious what the full 901 reveal is. Of course everyone will be divided as they usually are. But I still think as a consumer looking in, it is very inciting for a lot of reasons. If 901 Steam gets attention with some of these new modeling tools, it will be worth having a stronger look at. And affordable/practical to do that over a long period of time.

Hint.

seghier
05-21-2015, 04:54 AM
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-announces-new-investment-from-hgcapital/

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/digital-media/11619515/UK-visual-effects-team-behind-Guardians-of-the-Galaxy-sold-for-200m.html

safetyman
05-21-2015, 05:35 AM
Well, I'm glad Adobe didn't get their greedy little paws on the Foundry.

ianr
05-21-2015, 11:31 AM
I am I safetyman, Mr.Powers will have get a leg on now!

lightscape
05-21-2015, 11:53 AM
I'm excited with the official announcement later for 901. I expect a lot more features added besides what's already been revealed.

hrgiger
05-21-2015, 01:44 PM
Hoping something about 901 will blow my socks off. I just haven't seen it yet in the last few versions...

Nicolas Jordan
05-21-2015, 04:54 PM
I'm thinking with The Foundry under new ownership which could last as long as 10 years Modo and the rest of it's products will likely thrive and develop like they never have before! I wonder what this all means for Lightwave as it will no doubt have some effect on various products throughout the industry.

hrgiger
05-21-2015, 07:59 PM
I'm thinking with The Foundry under new ownership which could last as long as 10 years Modo and the rest of it's products will likely thrive and develop like they never have before! I wonder what this all means for Lightwave as it will no doubt have some effect on various products throughout the industry.

I don't see it meaning much for LightWave, I think more important is what LW3DG does with LightWave. However, I could see The Foundry lineup actually becoming a reasonable competitor with Autodesk at least to some degree. And I think that's the best thing that could happen.

lightscape
05-21-2015, 08:44 PM
Live stream
https://www.hazu.io/thefoundry/modo-901/_/video

OlaHaldor
05-21-2015, 10:51 PM
I didn't get to watch the stream since it started 3am local time here in Norway. Any chance of a crossgrade or something ?

motivalex
05-21-2015, 11:15 PM
901 is a substantial update. Never bought into Lightwaves cousin but always followed it's progress since 101. Definitely going to download the trial when it is available. I am very impressed with what I have seen so far. Finally a serious competitor to the Autodesk apps at a reasonable cost. Makes the last Cinema 4D and especially the Lightwave 2015 updates look anorexic.

lightscape
05-21-2015, 11:27 PM
Its mostly modelling and rendering updates.
Still expecting more if there is more.
The maya and 3dmax updates had a lot of game changing features.

raw-m
05-22-2015, 06:10 AM
Really like what they have done with their UI and drag/drop textures. Very nice!

chikega
05-22-2015, 10:20 AM
https://modo901.thefoundry.co.uk/

https://vimeo.com/search?q=modo+901