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Stephen0523
04-06-2015, 01:33 PM
Hi all. I am looking at the Mac Pro and I was wondering if I would benefit from the 12 Core over the 8 Core model?
http://prntscr.com/6qf2ap

Thanks in advance.

vonpietro
04-06-2015, 01:57 PM
IF YOU CAN afford it the more cores the better.

laptops are a strange breed, because you cannot usually upgrade a laptop - my advice well to anyone getting a laptop has been buy as powerful as possible - keeping the longevity of the laptop as useful as possible. the money is not an issue in the long term.

beverins
04-06-2015, 01:59 PM
just my opinion... but the 12-core model's price is what kills the deal for me. The price over the 8-core is doubled ... but you won't get anything near doubled performance.

gerry_g
04-06-2015, 02:01 PM
yes 12 better but hold off see if the there's product refresh in offing, stands to reason a 16 core is next likely update

3dworks
04-07-2015, 01:52 AM
have also a look at this: http://create.pro

this british company sells refurbished and updated 'classic' mac pro's with dual CPU setups, which is more suited for 3D applications than the single CPU option of the newer macpro's from 2013 - which are basically optimized for video. you can get more CPU power for less, and it also gives you the opportunity to custom design all other parts of the mac. ...and it is way better (speak: stable) than any hackintosh, because only original mac parts are used for the most crucial components.

cheers

markus

vonpietro
04-07-2015, 02:06 AM
i got my ideal mac up to 5250 pounds - it let me do a 12 core, 128gigs ram, and a titan black gtx 4gb ram card - so pretty powerful custom rig
but lets see - quick check 5000 pounds is.......$7826 OUCH

so far my dream pc system with a dual 8 core xeons and a titan z with 128 gigs is coming up at $8000 bucks. So close. alittle more cpu power with 4 more cores. Not to bad.

CaptainMarlowe
04-07-2015, 06:55 AM
have also a look at this: http://create.pro

this british company sells refurbished and updated 'classic' mac pro's with dual CPU setups, which is more suited for 3D applications than the single CPU option of the newer macpro's from 2013 - which are basically optimized for video. you can get more CPU power for less, and it also gives you the opportunity to custom design all other parts of the mac. ...and it is way better (speak: stable) than any hackintosh, because only original mac parts are used for the most crucial components.

cheers

markus

Pretty interesting prices. With VAT, in Euros, and all the options (Titan black, 6 Gb for substance painter... :) ), it's much more interesting for european customers than OWC used mac pros. I often think about a 8-core nMP with D700 cards, because I'm using my computer at 50% for 3D and 50% for video, but with this site, you can get a very powerful machine for 6000 euros.
Thanks for the link, I didn't know this site.

gerry_g
04-07-2015, 09:09 AM
Well hate to say it but the 3.06GHz 12 core chip in that refurbed machine will only best the nMacPro by around 50 seconds or so on the LW marble benchmark scene, I have dual 6core 2.93GHz model and a nMacPro 12 core, its really annoying running the old one being liquid cooling makes it so noisy and in the summer the additional heat in the room gets too much, they did not redesign the machine for nothing, besides good luck carrying when you need to take it in for repair.

Tartiflette
04-07-2015, 10:15 AM
Well hate to say it but the 3.06GHz 12 core chip in that refurbed machine will only best the nMacPro by around 50 seconds or so on the LW marble benchmark scene, I have dual 6core 2.93GHz model and a nMacPro 12 core, its really annoying running the old one being liquid cooling makes it so noisy and in the summer the additional heat in the room gets too much, they did not redesign the machine for nothing, besides good luck carrying when you need to take it in for repair.
The "old" MacPro that i just bought (not from Create.pro, although they have quite great deals but mine was even better after a bit of search on eBay...) isn't liquid cooled at all and it doesn't make any noticeable noise, is yours a custom one ?
As for being faster, i would find that more annoying that the new one, being at least 3 to 4 years younger (and being almost 4 times the price of my MacPro !) is slower, even by a small margin !!! :(

And i agree the old MacPro is quite heavy but as it isn't a laptop it's not meant to be moved very often and being a very robust machine i don' think it will have to be brought to the Apple Center that often for a repair. ;)

Beside that i have now 12TB of HD inside my MacPro and a shiny nVidia 970GTX whereas i could only dream of changing anything in a nMP...
Don't get me wrong, i love the nMP form factor and the great engineering thinking they've put into this beast but it's too "closed" to my taste as a professional computer and when you're doing 3D the old MacPro is by far a better choice than the new one, sadly. :(


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

gerry_g
04-07-2015, 10:37 AM
fine each to their own, right now one of my nMacPros is crunching through some animation, all twelve cores are going flat out but I can't hear a thing it might just as well be switched off, and the window isn't wide open to dissipate the heat buildup, remember this machine is pulling only half the wattage of the previous gen machine. To benchmark the old MacPro against the current nMacPro is a poor analogy, a better one would be how you rate the cost of the old refurbed twelve core against whatever comes out this year nMacPro wise and how good a bargain will it look then.

CaptainMarlowe
04-07-2015, 01:32 PM
I hear you. But right now, even a refurbished 12-core nMP (at least on the French store) would be 2500€ above an old boosted one at create.pro with roughly the same horsepower and GPU capability. For someone on a budget, it is quite a bargain.
I plan to replace my current aging iMac in two years (basically because during the next two years, with my real life job I won't have time to play with 3D or even 2D) with a Mac Pro. By then, I hope there will be some interesting nMP rev B (provided a rev B is issued this year) on the refurb store, but if not, I'll definitely consider the old MP option. And if I were to buy today, the create.pro version would be a no-brainer for me.

Stephen0523
04-09-2015, 04:41 PM
Hi all. Great feedback!
I took the plunge and purchased a full of 12 core with all the bells and whistles and highest video card.
Now I am just trying to figure out my external drives. The promise read systems look good but extremely expensive. I am thinking of just getting to 8 TB Western Digital drives that are USB 3.

Any advice on these external drives would be greatly appreciated.

toby
04-10-2015, 02:41 PM
I've been thinking about my next machine too, I have a 2012 dual 6core, disappointed the trashbin didn't have any more cores (but nice to hear that it uses so much less energy). I may go Linux, you can get dual 12, 16 and even 18core (36 real cores / 72 thread) systems. They're at least 15 grand right now, but the dual 14 or 16 is I think 8 grand. Never enough cores!

magiclight
04-10-2015, 02:52 PM
Maybe would be cheaper to buy 2 simpler rigs and use LWSN instead to get close to same render performance (or better) at lower price.

Trying to get even 16 cores to share the same memory (and doing it fast) is very expensive and still it will not be as fast as two machines with with 8 cores each as they have much better access to memory, and rendering eat lots of memory so cache needs to be huge also.

toby
04-10-2015, 03:04 PM
ugh - I'll have to look into that - it's not easy to find another 2012 12core anymore, and the new ones are cost-prohibitive, and with the cores split in 2 separate machines doesn't help test renders anyway -

donnie
04-11-2015, 06:49 PM
My Geekbench on my 12 core nMP with D700s is 30411 - this is just 800 behind the 3.46ghz dual processor cMP.

Once you spec out a dual 3.46 cMP its not too many dollars cheaper than the nMP.

CaptainMarlowe
04-12-2015, 12:04 AM
Well, to get roughly the same specs as a 12-core nMP, (12c, 3,46 Ghz, 64 Gb, Titan 6GB, 2 USB3.0 cards, 512 GB SSD and 2 4GB HD, etc.), there is a 35% difference in price,e.g. 6500€ instead of 10300€ (with mouse, keyboard and display), which would make quite a difference to me.

Tartiflette
04-12-2015, 04:05 AM
My Geekbench on my 12 core nMP with D700s is 30411 - this is just 800 behind the 3.46ghz dual processor cMP.

Once you spec out a dual 3.46 cMP its not too many dollars cheaper than the nMP.
Well, if we go this route, my "old" cMP 12 cores @ 3,06Ghz scores a Geekbench (if that bench has any interest, not so sure of that, anyway...) of 29167, which is "only" 1244 behind yours, but my machine did cost me around 2500 euros (with 32GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD) and it even has a 970GTX in it, which allows for CUDA applications ! :p

Not to play the one with the biggest hardware, it's not even a game, but let's face it: as much as i like Apple hardware (and man, do i wish i could have a nMP, it reminds me so much the great SGI o2 back in the days !), the new product line of MacPro is more aimed towards video professionals, which is fair enough, than for the 3D guys.
Fortunately enough, with 12 cores it's still very capable (better be, at that price !) but a quick cinebench shows me that my "old" MacPro is faster than the fastest 12cores nMP in pure CPU calculation, that's not what i would call a good evolution when all you need is faster CPU... :(

My 2 cents on this, your mileage may vary, of course.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

pauland
04-12-2015, 08:15 AM
I'm somewhat surprised that having the fastest Mac possible is a better idea than a fast Mac (for the LW development environment) plus a fast, separate server (Mac or no-name unix box) for rendering. Wouldn't that be a sweeter spot for render capability versus cost? I don't use LW professionally, but I suspect that if I did, I'd probably go in that direction.

Would using a 'cloud' renderfarm be a better investment still?

I love Apple product, but like anything else, the value sweet spot is always behind the bleeding edge.

Tartiflette
04-13-2015, 07:06 AM
I'm somewhat surprised that having the fastest Mac possible is a better idea than a fast Mac (for the LW development environment) plus a fast, separate server (Mac or no-name unix box) for rendering. Wouldn't that be a sweeter spot for render capability versus cost? I don't use LW professionally, but I suspect that if I did, I'd probably go in that direction.

Would using a 'cloud' renderfarm be a better investment still?

I love Apple product, but like anything else, the value sweet spot is always behind the bleeding edge.
Oh, you're right about online renderfarms, they are mandatory in a lot of situations where even the fastest computer out there is nothing compared to what has to be rendered !

In that case it's a no brainer and that's also why i repeat myself when i say i much prefer a fast, "not so much anymore" expensive machine rather than a new one which is 5% slower (!!) to 5% faster for triple the price.
In my case i know i need an "as fast as possible" machine, because a lot of things can't be done remotely (even more in LightWave's world) and having a really fast machine is a real boost of performance compared to having 2 machines, one that crunches the renders while you're still working on the other computer.

But not at the price Apple is selling the actual line of MacPro for almost no boost in rendering performance.

Again, my 2 cents here. :)


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

toby
04-13-2015, 04:27 PM
I prefer a fast machine to a medium one with nodes - development with a medium one is slower while the nodes sit there, and there's things I would never try without some real power to test them with. Then there's the networking and lic. hassle, setting up multiple machines to render to the same directory, etc.

Stephen0523
05-01-2015, 08:40 AM
Well I am happy to say that this thing is incredible! I have a 12 TB installation using a Drobo 5D and the SSD drive at the bottom of the Drobo which really helps accelerate things!