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pdrake
04-02-2015, 05:37 PM
can anyone point me to some good clothfx tutorials, either commercial or free that are relevant to 11/11.6. all the ones i've found are pretty old and some of the controls have moved. thansk

Ryan Roye
04-02-2015, 06:56 PM
can anyone point me to some good clothfx tutorials, either commercial or free that are relevant to 11/11.6. all the ones i've found are pretty old and some of the controls have moved. thansk

Unless you are using LW 9.6 or earlier, clothFX and all of the dynamics systems listed in the FX tab (with the exception of particles) are essentially depreciated which is why there are no new tutorials on them. It is highly recommended that people use Bullet instead.

Some exceptions apply. Rule of thumb: if bullet can also do it, bullet should be used.

pdrake
04-02-2015, 07:15 PM
well, that's news to me. what the hell is bullet? i need to do drapes and curtains.

stuff like this . . .127717

it's for a large scale installation at a hotel.

Snosrap
04-02-2015, 09:15 PM
Yeah use Bullet. Cloth is a Deforming body in Bullet. Drapes and curtains are super easy to do, just don't expect Marvelous Designer results.

pdrake
04-02-2015, 09:38 PM
should i just buy marvelous designer?

prometheus
04-03-2015, 05:18 AM
should i just buy marvelous designer?

Depends on how much of drapes and curtains you should do, and clothes too of course, there´s nothing to stop you from using lightwave clothfx of bullet to do this, just a little time and knowledge required.
Marvelous designer Also depends on your purse :) depending on subscription license

monthly 59,99$
annual 360$
perpetual 550$

http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/marvelousdesigner/pricing
http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/

bullet can be a little tricky to avoid the rubber stiffness look, I think I prefer clothfx on draped cloth, then again..cloth is slower and might be more troublesome in animation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwoPTl5ykiY&list=PLlynoQ9vNqliBMcwCQUd2kWYCOCM30w1q&index=10



I suggest you start looking through the newtek lightwave vids on youtube channels with bullet soft body, and also look up on cloth fx for lightwave as well and see how that looks....if you are in for doing these kind of things all the time in the future...only then look in to marvelous designer.

prometheus
04-03-2015, 05:24 AM
and some clothfx tips...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFuJQMPc9HY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvx8qQ_A68

curtains...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ACslURz1Go

Snosrap
04-03-2015, 09:24 AM
Don't overlook SyFlex!

Greenlaw
04-03-2015, 09:45 AM
I haven't used clothFX for several years, except to occasionally scan meshes specifically for FX_MetaLink. I used to use it mainly for hair and parts of clothing. I guess it still works okay but it's always been slow, and getting it to perform efficiently required some complicated setups. ClothFX was dependable in it's time (and really the only option for many years) but I don't want to go back to using it.

I like Bullet cloth quite a bit. I use it mostly for hair these days but I've also used it for cloth in various movies, for flags, nets, clothing, etc. Calculation times were a fraction of what it would take with clothFX, and IMO it's actually more controllable than ClothFX because of the near immediate feedback. Quality is very nice if you take the time to understand and tweak the settings but depending on what you're doing, it may have issues with certain other Lightwave features.

For example, the one big issue I ran into a few months ago was that Bullet cloth doesn't play very well with Spline Control--in fact attaching a Bullet cloth item to an object animated with Spline Control plus Bullet constraints on bones, makes it go nuts. I found this out on a movie production at the very end of last year and I wound up baking the Spline Control object's path and then baking a single vertex on the item that was animated with Bullet bone constraints, and then attaching the Bullet cloth item to the baked null. After that, the calc times, even with collision enabled, was reasonably fast and predictable but, man, was this a convoluted setup. Fortunately, this particular setup was not typical, and at least Lightwave did allow me a solution. Anyway, for most setups, I find Bullet cloth is pretty easy and straightforward to use.

One thing Bullet is not good at is using MDD for collision objects. It works but it becomes maddeningly slow. It's much efficient to use proxy objects for collision. But really, this is true for ClothFX too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that neither system is perfect but each has its strengths. Nowadays, I use Bullet as my first option and keep ClothFX on hand as a backup. It's kinda like where I was with FiberFX and Sasquatch a couple of years ago, but nowadays, like ClothFX, it's been ages since I last used Sasquatch.

If I can manage the time this weekend, I'll see if I can get some footage up with explanations.

You might also consider Syflex. Unlike Bullet, Syflex is a dedicated cloth system and it handles this task exceptionally well. Syflex used to be super expensive but it's become quite affordable for Lightwave now, and it's very fast.

I would use it more myself but I'm usually having to combine cloth with Bullet so I typically just stick with Bullet.

Anyway, if all you're doing is animated drapery, IMO, I would go with Bullet and a directional force. It's simple and super fast for that sort of thing. If this is for a static drapery, obviously you don't need dynamics at all--you'd be better off using LW Brush, 3D Coat or ZBrush.

G.

Ryan Roye
04-03-2015, 11:33 AM
Just a random note:

If you look in the free content files that Lightwave puts out, there are various examples of bullet being used to animate cloth objects which I think you'll find to be extremely helpful references or even templates for getting the effect that you want. Realize that object scale will affect the outcome of your simulations regardless of the program you are using.

Also, if you intend to do a lot of cloth/soft body simulation, Syflex is far better than bullet in every conceivable way in that category. Because it comes with its own learning curve and pricetag, I recommend becoming familiar with bullet and understanding its limitations before "graduating" to a better system like Syflex.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-cXiAohXpI demonstrates some advantages of Syflex over Bullet

jwiede
04-03-2015, 12:20 PM
Don't overlook SyFlex!

Yep, for actually simulating cloth, Syflex is blazingly fast, very stable, and gives production-quality results. Syflex's results are higher quality than Bullet (IMO), and sims calculate much quicker as well (esp. if collision objects and constraints are needed). If you expect to be doing much with cloth, I'd grab Syflex, Ryan Roye's Syflex tutorial as intro, and work from there.

Dodgy
04-04-2015, 08:07 AM
Is there an update I'm missing for Syflex? As I don't get correct collisions if I move the cloth object away from its original position, it acts as if it is offset.

Ryan Roye
04-04-2015, 09:46 AM
Is there an update I'm missing for Syflex? As I don't get correct collisions if I move the cloth object away from its original position, it acts as if it is offset.

Syflex calculates everything concerning a mesh from the position/state where they were in when first loaded into Layout. The coordinates of a Syflex-enabled item must always be zeroed-out for XYZ/HPB/Scale.

In order to change the initial position/state of a Syflex-deformed object, you must use Syflex tools to achieve that. The most flexible way is to temporarily constrain the object to a null via a Nail force and move/rotate it where desired, then use the initial position function to tell Syflex that this is where you want the simulation to start from.

You can also use the gravity force to nudge Syflex cloth objects around prior to simulating them.

That said, it would be convenient if Syflex were like bullet in that matter; letting you just move/rotate the item and have its XYZ/HPB coordinates at the start frame determine its initial state.

jwiede
04-06-2015, 11:13 AM
That said, it would be convenient if Syflex were like bullet in that matter; letting you just move/rotate the item and have its XYZ/HPB coordinates at the start frame determine its initial state.

Yeah, for an otherwise excellent package, I find this integration issue is minor in scope but quite frequently annoying. Using nails or gravity or such to move objects and reset initial state simply isn't as convenient a workflow as being able to move them to exactly where needed using Layout tools, and it comes up a LOT. I keep forgetting to email Gerard about it.

Chazriker, have you mentioned it to Gerard? BTW, if it wasn't clear above, your training really helped me get up to speed quickly with Syflex, many thanks!

Ryan Roye
04-06-2015, 12:10 PM
Chazriker, have you mentioned it to Gerard? BTW, if it wasn't clear above, your training really helped me get up to speed quickly with Syflex, many thanks!

Yes, I submitted a feature request to make the keyframe at the start frame by default the initial state. We'll see if eventually anything comes out of it, I know for certain i've influenced over a dozen sales to Gerard's product thus far.

Glad you found the training content helpful, it was made to help people avoid (or, at minimum, understand) some of the frustrations that I went through when I first picked it up in addition to everything else that's covered. There's definitely a lot of workflow concepts that are absolutely necessary to know about, but are mentioned nowhere in the Syflex manual. That of course is partly due to the fact that a proper workflow stems outside of Syflex and has more to do with Lightwave's other tools (IE: Metalink).

Ryan Roye
04-06-2015, 03:31 PM
Update: It turns out Gerard has already dealt with this issue but he hasn't been very good about announcing updates. Grab the latest version (via the same link you were given in the purchase e-mail) and people should be able to just move/rotate objects around instead of using the methods described in my video. I'm gonna have to update my content now (some of my scenes broke with this update), but it's added fat I'll be glad to trim out! :)

Greenlaw
04-06-2015, 03:33 PM
Excellent! Thanks for the heads up Ryan.

jwiede
04-06-2015, 06:05 PM
Yes, thanks much, Ryan! I knew there was an update coming, but wasn't sure if that would make it into the update, and hadn't seen notice from Gerard.

Markc
04-12-2015, 06:00 AM
Looking to grab Syflex (while it's still 10% of price)
Does it work with LW2015 (Syflex site only mentions LW11.6)?

adhesiveX
04-12-2015, 06:29 AM
Yes.

Markc
04-12-2015, 06:35 AM
Thanks :thumbsup: