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digitalimagery
04-01-2015, 04:26 PM
I have a logo that a client wants in 3D. The problem is the 2D designer of the logo used a stock bug that already has a 3 dimensional look and, although kind of cool when seen flat, animating something like this and making it look like the logo might be a challenge.

I'm curious if anyone knows how to model something like this (I'm no modeling genius) and if it's even worth it based on how it will probably look in real 3D. Image attached.

BTW it's nearing the end of my day (SW US) so if I don't respond right away I'll check in tomorrow.

Thanks all!
DI

ernpchan
04-01-2015, 06:21 PM
Not sure how it's supposed to animate but building it seems definitely do-able.

127700

Amurrell
04-01-2015, 08:48 PM
I just closely approximated the curvature of the ribbon with a closed curve, extruded it down, copy, paste, rotate, done. Of course I just did it in a minute, but I would tweak it a bit more to make it look right while still in the curve stage.

127701

Amurrell
04-02-2015, 04:12 AM
I should also point out the use of the thicken tool to give it....well...thickness.

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 08:15 AM
Not sure how it's supposed to animate but building it seems definitely do-able.

127700

Could you give me a bit more info on how you modeled this? Most of my work is text animation. When it comes to this organic modeling stuff I shrink into a bubbling pool of plasma.

Thanks.
DI

ernpchan
04-02-2015, 08:49 AM
I'll try to find time to document the process. It's not hard but explaining it through text wouldn't do it justice.

JoePoe
04-02-2015, 08:49 AM
DI, I think you're going to have two problems making this 2d to 3d transformation.

1) as soon as you go to any perspective the illusion isn't going to hold up. So (I think) you will be confined to the Ortho camera. Okay, that's not so bad... just be aware.
2) lighting/shadow. ...... It's going to be tricky.

My initial stab at a model.... 127705

And a quick render. You can see the issue where geometry bridges from front to back. Not sure how to fix that even with 100% ambient or GI. 127706

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 09:07 AM
I'll try to find time to document the process. It's not hard but explaining it through text wouldn't do it justice.

I feel your pain. I'm trying to explain (via e-mail) to the girls who do logo design in our company the reasons why logos like this, although cool looking in 2D, don't make for great 3D animations because they don't look like this when you move the camera to the side - they aren't understanding. Poor things think in 2D.

Thanks though. Anything that points me in the right direction will help. I'm trying to build the ribbon in Illustrator and extrude it in LW. We'll see if that helps. The ribbons themselves will not animate just going to buzz the camera around the finished model with some extreme closeups resolving on the final logo.

DI

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 09:09 AM
Hey JoePoe, thanks for the input. All the reasons I've been asking the in house designers to stop adding 2D bugs to the logos for all the reasons you're pointing out. I don't design'm - just animate'm.

DI


DI, I think you're going to have two problems making this 2d to 3d transformation.

1) as soon as you go to any perspective the illusion isn't going to hold up. So (I think) you will be confined to the Ortho camera. Okay, that's not so bad... just be aware.
2) lighting/shadow. ...... It's going to be tricky.

My initial stab at a model.... 127705

And a quick render. You can see the issue where geometry bridges from front to back. Not sure how to fix that even with 100% ambient or GI. 127706

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 09:29 AM
Thanks Amurrell,

I'm trying a version using extruded 2D Illustrator elipses with curves that may give me the results I need. I'll post anything I come up with that remotely resembles something usable.

DI


I just closely approximated the curvature of the ribbon with a closed curve, extruded it down, copy, paste, rotate, done. Of course I just did it in a minute, but I would tweak it a bit more to make it look right while still in the curve stage.

127701

ernpchan
04-02-2015, 10:04 AM
I feel your pain. I'm trying to explain (via e-mail) to the girls who do logo design in our company the reasons why logos like this, although cool looking in 2D, don't make for great 3D animations because they don't look like this when you move the camera to the side - they aren't understanding. Poor things think in 2D.

Thanks though. Anything that points me in the right direction will help. I'm trying to build the ribbon in Illustrator and extrude it in LW. We'll see if that helps. The ribbons themselves will not animate just going to buzz the camera around the finished model with some extreme closeups resolving on the final logo.

DI

It's easier for me to just rebuild it and put each step into a layer.

I'm not sure what JoePoe did but I suspect our workflow is similar.

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 10:09 AM
Aaahhh. Don't have node handler plugin. I'm still on LW 10.1

Does this require LW 11.6?

Thank you.
DI



It's easier for me to just rebuild it and put each step into a layer.

I'm not sure what JoePoe did but I suspect our workflow is similar.

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 10:20 AM
ernpchan,

after further investigation, the lack of the node handler plug doesn't really seem to be an issue. At first I didn't realize the multiple layers when the model opened. After re reading your post and looking at the individual layers I realized what I was seeing.

So thank you for your work on this. I may need to tighten the curves up a pinch to have the ribbons pass more closely to each other but I have an idea where you're going and I'm not only impressed with your modeling prowess but am grate full for your help.

Trust me, my lack of having 11.6 is not by choice, I'm a slave to management who doesn't understand the value of staying current with software upgrades.

Thanks a million
DI


It's easier for me to just rebuild it and put each step into a layer.

I'm not sure what JoePoe did but I suspect our workflow is similar.

ernpchan
04-02-2015, 10:21 AM
No problem and good luck.

JoePoe
04-02-2015, 12:05 PM
Hey,

So I think we started the same way... but I ended up kinda different.
Just throwing this out there.....

I ended up hiding the heavy transition completely behind whatever part needed to be in front. And to keep it hidden, the object became asymmetrical front to back. Interesting.

127711 127713

ernpchan
04-02-2015, 12:19 PM
Hey,

So I think we started the same way... but I ended up kinda different.
Just throwing this out there.....

I ended up hiding the heavy transition completely behind whatever part needed to be in front. And to keep it hidden, the object became asymmetrical front to back. Interesting.

127711 127713

Yeah I started out that way too, I flattened the model to try to make the model work in 3d space more. I figure an orthographic camera could be used too to flatten out any distortion.

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 12:51 PM
That's because the shape is a Mobius strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip the same side that occupies the front occupies the back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip It's sort of a 3 dimensional object with only one face.

The problem with using the ortho camera is that it you still can't do any kind of 3D logo animation (fly around) or you see a weird looking image that ends up "looking" incorrect (at least from the client's perspective).

I've shown all the test to the graphic deisgners and now that they understand the problems they cause by using these types of 3D "looking" objects when designing logo bugs they've agreed to not do this in future work.

Thanks for all the help and input.

DI


Yeah I started out that way too, I flattened the model to try to make the model work in 3d space more. I figure an orthographic camera could be used too to flatten out any distortion.

JoePoe
04-02-2015, 01:36 PM
Actually it's not a Mobius. If you travel around the loop you never make it to the other side.
Maybe this whole thing would be easier if is was... :D.
The logo just bends real weird. A mobius would have a full twist as well.

This is a Mobius.... 127714.

But I hear what you're saying about the Ortho camera. You can do it, but it will be funky.

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 02:10 PM
It's not a mobius. What made me thing it was, was the model attached from another respondent. I was zooming in to see what was causing a pinch point and it when trying to fatten it up to match the rest of the thickness it seamed to have a twist. My bad but it's all good.

Thanks for setting me straight.
DI


Actually it's not a Mobius. If you travel around the loop you never make it to the other side.
Maybe this whole thing would be easier if is was... :D.
The logo just bends real weird. A mobius would have a full twist as well.

This is a Mobius.... 127714.

But I hear what you're saying about the Ortho camera. You can do it, but it will be funky.

squarewulf
04-02-2015, 02:55 PM
This seemed fun, I had a go.


127715

127716

digitalimagery
04-02-2015, 02:58 PM
Great version. Looks like the challenge is easily accomplished but unfortunately where it's for an animation it's been decided it won't be animated. It just looks too weird form any view other than straight forward.

Thanks for the submission though. Looks good.

DI


This seemed fun, I had a go.


127715

127716