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View Full Version : Yet another hub/modeler/layout "handshaking" issue



truthdigger
04-01-2015, 01:33 AM
....and i just bought this software last month. I WAS going to get ChronoSculpt and NevronMotion as well. Not now. Not after contemplating buying LW the entire month of Feb (during the Valentines "love sale"; how antithetically ironic) only to get 'hit' with this, nearly 5 times now, with modeler and layout broken due to the hub keeping them from "handshaking" with one other. I'm presently dead in the water from doing any work. It'd be different if it was something complicated to code, but this is like the 12th incarnation of LW and they STILL haven't got the thing fixed. I'm not referring to a bug or a needed update. All softwares have and need that. I'm talking about something that's keeping me and others from even working. Yes i could call or email tech, but for 1) i shouldn't have to considering the nature of the known and ongoing problem, 2) others have already emailed tech - one even received a reply back stating "we dont have time to troubleshoot every third party firewall", not even 'getting' firewalls are not the problem (see this thread for details [p4 especially]: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145097-Layout-will-not-launch-with-modeler-running ). NT should allow us to own and use AV/FW software along side of LW without the hub freaking out. And many have the problem apart from any AV/FW software.

I tried everything suggested in the thread above, have searched the net and tried various other 'workarounds' as well, a few ideas of my own too, yet to no avail (LW has even reverted back to discovery mode). This isn't something that should be worked around but fixed, period! I've wasted nearly a full day with this and i'm not about to 'prostrate' myself before NT support when they know it's a problem and the only support i'll get is just another lame excuse throwing the buck off on some other software Co. They know people are getting 'hit' with this and all NT would have to do is sit down and say "ok guys, let's get this thing fixed once and for all". Problem solved. Paying customers happy.

I can stomach Modeler and Layout not being integrated together. Fine. No problem. But at LEAST make the two work together for cryin out loud - and that on a CONSISTENT basis!

Don't know what to do at this point, but just wait and hope someone here has a PERMANENT workaround (God i hate using that term for THIS type of problem) so this trap isn't "triggered" every other month or so keeping me from working.

Steam released....feel much better now!

Specs: 'Wintel system', Win7 (64bit), 24GB, LW 2015.2 (64bit); very few TRS processes running in background.

**Just so posters will know, i've tried deleting the config files, rebooting, reinstalling LW, uninstalling all AV/FW software, adding the hub to the Win Firewall 'allowing' them incoming and outgoing pings, disabling several TRS background processes, and many other things to get Modeler to pass objects to Layout, without any success.**

magiclight
04-01-2015, 02:38 AM
Sorry you have a problem, not sure what it could be, have you tried to shut down the firewall and see if it works without it ?

LW use port 1502, 1525 and 1530, that is what you need to open up if it is causing problems, you say allowing incoming outgoing "pings", not sure what you mean here, in network terms a "ping" use ICMP not TCP, and does not say much about a connection, but maybe you talk about something else here.

You could download a TCP spy and see what LW does, that could give a better idea what the problem is.

Make sure you don't have any other software that use the same ports (1502,1525,1530) as that could cause nasty problems also, again, a good TCP spy tool would give a good overview.

That's the only ideas I can come up with at the moment.
Hope you can get it working soon.

spherical
04-01-2015, 03:04 AM
And yet, the large majority have zero issues. Not a help to fix yours, I know, so of little practical use in your particular circumstance. Still, this does speak to the greater picture that is is not a universal problem. Three workstations here, running multiple versions of LightWave for many years with no Hub/Layout/Modeler communications problems, so there obviously is a solution that works on a permanent basis.


What AV/FW are you running?
Did you run the LW installer files "As Administrator"? I don't mean logged in as Administrator, although that is recommended, I mean right-click on the installer and choose "Run As Administrator".
Did you completely disable the AV and Firewall when installing?
Did you install in /Program Files? Never do that. Too many permissions issues, especially in Win8. Create a "replica" pair of of top-level directories: "/Apps" for 64-bit and "/Apps (x86)" for 32-bit to keep them separated. That I have an SSD for the %system drive%, I set these directories on a fast HDD to cut down on the cycles. Besides, the %system drive% fills up quickly enough, without every darn application being installed on it, too. An expedient for the programmers but you don't have to follow the sheep.
After install, are you setting all LW applications to "Run As Administrator" in the file properties dialogue?

Also, how can you have this problem "every other month or so" if you just "bought the software last month"?

truthdigger
04-01-2015, 07:03 AM
I'll try everything you said Magiclight. Good ideas too. Much thanks! Oh and thanks for the tip on TCP spy tool idea and about a "ping" using ICMP - i thought it was TCP.

truthdigger
04-01-2015, 08:32 AM
I didn't try some of those you listed spherical so thanks. Also, i'll change some of the wording on my post so it won't look so offensive to the group and mods. It's just that i contemplated buying LW or not for a long time, and being the somewhat poor chap i am, right after purchasing and installing, THIS happens. So it's somewhat depressing to say the least. After about a month of using LW (v2015.2), it's 'lost' it's connection with Layout over 4 to 5 times now for me, and i have a fairly fine tuned, fast, machine. BUT, i haven't done most of the things you and magiclight mentioned AND i did hack up (i.e. optimize) Win7 to a large degree about 10 years ago in order to run my audio DAW as smoothly as possible. I would reinstall the OS, but i have many programs installed - like Toon Boom Harmony 11 - (one reason i'm poor :D ) and so don't feel like going through all the licensing and registration hassles. It seems you're an advanced user spherical, yes, no? The cases i found depict a beginner to intermediate side of things (and i'll hunt them down and paste them as examples if you or anyone else wants, as it does happen more than some realize). I'm an advanced user in all things audio so i too have had zero problems in that arena. Did you read that one page (p4) of the thread i listed above? It was a worse case scenario, but anyway. Hey thank you SO much for the ideas above. I will try all of them..

Tim
p.s. every other month in the future - see again.

bobakabob
04-01-2015, 11:07 AM
If you haven't already tried, some tips from personal experience:
* when installing LW, install to default directory. For some reason I had problems with LW 2015 license when I directed it elsewhere. Make sure Win firewall is on. (I also have Avast antivirus but switched it off during this procedure).
* you mentioned allowing Hub access in Win firewall but not Modeler or Layout. Include them also in W7 rules.
* Fire up the Hub first, and open up Layout then Modeler directly from the Hub. They should be linked.
If Hub isn't working, another program is obviously interfering. Must say I have very rarely encountered this problem and there is surely a solution. PS you make sure all *cfg files were deleted when you retried?

truthdigger
04-01-2015, 12:04 PM
Thanks Bob. Well, now, LW has reverted back to the demo 'Discovery' version saying "The licensing system found one or more license files, but could not detect any usable license keys". Immediately below that it says "It seems you may not have a valid license. Please press the buy now button to....." etc, when i open Modeler and Layout.

Just before it went back into discovery mode, the only command grayed out in the top right-hand corner was the "send to layout" command. Also, Layout opened up Modeler upon clicking on "Modeler" in the top right-hand corner, but it wouldn't send what i had opened inside the viewport.

(Note: i've set Win Firewall back to it's default settings. I'll mess with it after i reinstall LW)

*From the posts i've witnessed so far versions .0/1/2 of 2015 is what's giving the most problems.*

SO, uninstall LW, reinstall to default location, drop license file on top of startup dialog, run hub first, then run M and L from the hub (in any order), correct? Thanks again bobakabob....and everyone else!

RebelHill
04-01-2015, 12:45 PM
Is send to layout greyed out in modeler... because if so, most likely you havent saved the object. Unsaved objects cant be sent to layout.

bobakabob
04-01-2015, 01:46 PM
Thanks Bob. Well, now, LW has reverted back to the demo 'Discovery' version saying "The licensing system found one or more license files, but could not detect any usable license keys". Immediately below that it says "It seems you may not have a valid license. Please press the buy now button to....." etc, when i open Modeler and Layout.

Just before it went back into discovery mode, the only command grayed out in the top right-hand corner was the "send to layout" command. Also, Layout opened up Modeler upon clicking on "Modeler" in the top right-hand corner, but it wouldn't send what i had opened inside the viewport.

(Note: i've set Win Firewall back to it's default settings. I'll mess with it after i reinstall LW)

*From the posts i've witnessed so far versions .0/1/2 of 2015 is what's giving the most problems.*

SO, uninstall LW, reinstall to default location, drop license file on top of startup dialog, run hub first, then run M and L from the hub (in any order), correct? Thanks again bobakabob....and everyone else!

Yep, Before reinstalling uninstall 2015. Then I would also delete any LW lic key files and *cfg files on your system - and download the original license from your account onto your desktop to drag onto the key installer. If that doesn't work you can copy and paste the key manually in the Users / Newtek / license key sub directory. Don't be put off contacting support - I have always found them helpful professional and positive for nearly 20 years and no problem has remained unfixed.

PS once it's working you will love LW 2015, it's the best version yet with a huge revised manual which is essential reading. RH's advice above suggests you're halfway there... If the box is greyed out without having saved a LW obj that's a good sign. You obviously just need to get out of Discovery mode. There are more threads on the forum with fixes for this and they usually involve configuring conflicting programs such as AVG antivirus and firewalls to enabling LW, Modeler and Hub.

spherical
04-01-2015, 03:29 PM
No, I *wouldn't* "install to default location". That, especially if you are on Win8 (which Win7 mostly is), causes issues due to write permissions. The "default location" (/Program Files or /Program Files (x86)) are chosen by the programmers because they know that those directories exist on all systems; not because they want you to install there. There are, of course, programmers who are so clueless that they do not give users the opportunity to change the location. This is a bad practice and in no way indicates that those two directories are the only places to install applications.

That you say that this issue crops up repeatedly may indicate that Windows Update is resetting something.

As for the license issue, I use the earlier license.key file, not the .lwk. Although both work, all of my version licenses are entered into a universal .key file that is copied to the /licenses directory of all versions, due to the need to run commercial plugins that poll the dongle. These licenses are also entered into the .lwk file as a backup, in case of any issue (that has never come up to-date). When these files are manually placed into the /licenses directory, the drag-and-drop splash screen never shows. The applications just start right up, because they have found the required license.

bobakabob
04-01-2015, 05:52 PM
No, I *wouldn't* "install to default location". That, especially if you are on Win8 (which Win7 mostly is), causes issues due to write permissions. The "default location" (/Program Files or /Program Files (x86)) are chosen by the programmers because they know that those directories exist on all systems; not because they want you to install there. There are, of course, programmers who are so clueless that they do not give users the opportunity to change the location. This is a bad practice and in no way indicates that those two directories are the only places to install applications.

That you say that this issue crops up repeatedly may indicate that Windows Update is resetting something.

As for the license issue, I use the earlier license.key file, not the .lwk. Although both work, all of my version licenses are entered into a universal .key file that is copied to the /licenses directory of all versions, due to the need to run commercial plugins that poll the dongle. These licenses are also entered into the .lwk file as a backup, in case of any issue (that has never come up to-date). When these files are manually placed into the /licenses directory, the drag-and-drop splash screen never shows. The applications just start right up, because they have found the required license.

I used to follow the same procedure, creating custom folders on C Drive for LW up to 11 (on W7). However, when I initially created my own directory for the LW 2015.2 on C Drive I ran into problems with getting the license key to work. It may or may not be related - but I let my second installation go to the default location and it works, perfectly. Installing plugins isn't a problem either.

truthdigger
04-01-2015, 06:09 PM
You know, it's funny how life is. No matter how much you know or think you've covered, it always seems to be the little, unnoticed, most elemental things that evade you. Rebel Hill had the answer. I never heard or read anywhere in the LW manual or on the forums that you had to save an object first before it would transfer to Layout. Seems it would just grab what was in memory and hand that over to Layout.

Oh well, at least all is well now. I DID however have to reinstall, running as Admin, drop license to start up window, etc. I wonder why this wasn't placed in the manual somewhere. Maybe it was, but i didn't see it (and i'm presently reading the entire 2,305 page tome). Thanks for all the help people. I'm saving this thread though in case i ever need any of this info.

Tim

spherical
04-01-2015, 06:48 PM
I used to follow the same procedure, creating custom folders on C Drive for LW up to 11 (on W7). However, when I initially created my own directory for the LW 2015.2 on C Drive I ran into problems with getting the license key to work. It may or may not be related - but I let my second installation go to the default location and it works, perfectly. Installing plugins isn't a problem either.

Odd, in that I don't need to be forced into doing that. My application directories are on a separate drive altogether, due to the SSD %SystemDrive%, and it all works without a hitch; plugins and everything. Must be something different that we are doing that causes yours to have to be in /Program Files.

@truthdigger: Glad you got it sorted. Yep, hiding in plain sight.

truthdigger
04-01-2015, 08:29 PM
*deleted*

Snosrap
04-01-2015, 09:41 PM
I had to uninstall AVG Antivirus software to make LW work. If you happen to be using AVG that is likely your problem, if not disable any antivirus software you may have and see if that doesn't fix it.

magiclight
04-02-2015, 05:50 AM
That's funny, I use AVG because it never cause problems for me including with LW.

Snosrap
04-02-2015, 08:56 AM
That's funny, I use AVG because it never cause problems for me including with LW.

I guess thats the nature of PC's for ya. :)