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View Full Version : When will Kray 3.0 be available?



jboudreau
01-25-2015, 10:54 AM
Hi Guys

Does anyone know when KRay 3.0 will be available. It's been in beta for a very long time.

Thanks,
Jason

jwiede
01-25-2015, 07:26 PM
I suspect you're asking a question even the Kray devs themselves cannot answer with any reasonable certainty.

djwaterman
01-25-2015, 09:21 PM
You can email Grzegorz directly and inquire, look through the discussion pages on their site for that address, it's not actually in beta yet, not the version you want, which is the LW version. I emailed him a week or so back and he replied with an answer to my question, but no direct dates, right now his priority is integration of new Kray engine with LW and the release of Kray 3 beta. We have to appreciate that it's a single developer doing this.

m.d.
01-25-2015, 10:42 PM
I'm willing to bet within the next 6 months to 2 years....:)

3dworks
01-26-2015, 04:01 AM
best is to ask grzegorz directly... good if he sees so much interest into kray 3: http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/contact

OFF
01-26-2015, 08:45 AM
A week ago, I asked Grzegorz a trick question and he told me the following:


As soon as Kray 3 engine will be connected with LW Open Beta will start, so anyone in invited.
This is top priority now and right after I fix Kray2 issues with LW2015 all work will focus on this.

lightscape
01-26-2015, 09:41 AM
I wish Grzegorz would just stop kray 2 update for lw 2015.
He should focus on kray 3 instead which has potential to have actual sales.

lightscape
05-21-2015, 11:55 PM
kray 3 is in beta. :D

jwiede
05-22-2015, 12:37 AM
kray 3 is in beta. :D

Now all we need is the Kray3 integration into LW.

lightscape
05-22-2015, 01:01 AM
Now all we need is the Kray3 integration into LW.

It was integrated into lw when it was in alpha. Its in beta now.

jwiede
05-25-2015, 06:28 AM
It was integrated into lw when it was in alpha. Its in beta now.

Are you seeing a beta version of 3.0 for download with LW integration somewhere, though? If so, URL? All I see are the same standalone and browser versions from before.

djwaterman
05-25-2015, 06:45 AM
No it's not ready yet but monitor the Kray site as there are a couple of threads (http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/forum/index.php?f=56&t=4585&view=unread&rb_v=viewtopic#unread) set up to show the progress (http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/forum/index.php?f=56&t=4590&rb_v=viewtopic) and we are being promised lots of reports in the weeks ahead. But you knew that already.

lightscape
05-25-2015, 11:38 PM
Are you seeing a beta version of 3.0 for download with LW integration somewhere, though? If so, URL? All I see are the same standalone and browser versions from before.

1. Not seeing, using.
2. No url.
3. There's a browser version? :D

erikals
05-26-2015, 03:02 AM
wonder how it will compare to Octane...

lightscape
05-26-2015, 03:30 AM
In what aspect?
One is unbiased the other is biased.

Octane renders deforming geometry with less headache and really fast with only noise to deal with but renders enclosed spaces with a lot of headaches and takes a lot of gpu power to render those kinds of scenes. And expensive for network rendering.

Kray 2.0 renders deforming geometry with a lot of tweaking involved like lightwave native and can't compare to the speed of octane in that aspect but renders enclosed spaces extremely fast and clean and with 999 render nodes it will eat octane alive for those scenes.

50one
05-26-2015, 04:11 AM
Isn't that weird that a KRAY dev. is not present in these forums at all? Yeah, there's is KRAY forum out there but LW being it's main market I dn't see huge issue in logging in every 6/12 months and say something like "Latest updates from XXXX"
KRAY marketing is even worse than LW marketing, other than two users in Newtek forums saying that the v3.0 will blow your socks off and it's "just around the corner".
I'm not using it, so can't say how good it is, but judging by the development I wouldn't invest any money in it, since there are far more established companies on the market.
Just my observation, nothing else. I'm sure it's a great product, but so far I've seen nothing that would prove it tbh.

lightscape
05-26-2015, 04:17 AM
Kray 3 is still in closed beta so not much marketting to do.

Its weirder that Lightwave Devs are not so present in their own forum :D

I think there's a total disconnect with the person that handles the forums and the person that handles Lightwave3d webpage.
I only go to this page https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/ once a month maybe but there's some stuff in there that isn't mentioned in this forum at all. Sad.

50one
05-26-2015, 04:39 AM
Kray 3 is still in closed beta so not much marketting to do.

Its weirder that Lightwave Devs are not so present in their own forum :D

I think there's a total disconnect with the person that handles the forums and the person that handles Lightwave3d webpage.
I only go to this page https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/ once a month maybe but there's some stuff in there that isn't mentioned in this forum at all. Sad.

True, haha.
We're being so spoiled that any form of communication seems like Christmas coming early lol.

mav3rick
05-26-2015, 05:02 AM
Kray 3 is still in closed beta so not much marketting to do.

Its weirder that Lightwave Devs are not so present in their own forum :D

I think there's a total disconnect with the person that handles the forums and the person that handles Lightwave3d webpage.
I only go to this page https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/ once a month maybe but there's some stuff in there that isn't mentioned in this forum at all. Sad.

exactly . they hardly post anything on their own place ...

Niko3D
05-26-2015, 06:36 AM
I think KRay3 will be really good...but, when?And to compare it other software, how is the quality?I mean not now...but when KRay3 will be out.
I understand there 's just one or a few developers but it's too slow...and the problem is the speed the development then more cool features than others engines.
...I don't understand NT and KRay Dev are completely disconnected?!...

jwiede
05-26-2015, 07:00 AM
Just my observation, nothing else. I'm sure it's a great product, but so far I've seen nothing that would prove it tbh.

Well, the forums here used to have plenty of folks singing the praises of Kray. The forums here used to have plenty of folks, too.

If you do a search on Kray in the gallery sections, you should still see plenty of content demonstrating Kray 2's strength for interior renders, etc. For quite a long time, folks who needed performant GI from LW used to rely on Kray (some still do). Kray used to even compare reasonably well versus Vray results, but to be fair, Vray has also improved a tremendous amount since those days. Kray 3 was supposed to address many of the existing limitations, and hopefully deliver performance "more competitive*" with current Vray.

*: IMO, expecting to match or beat Vray's development (aka quality/performance) without similar engineering/R&D investment isn't reasonable, but even "in the neighborhood" would be a solid win for Kray 3.

erikals
05-26-2015, 07:39 AM
In what aspect?
One is unbiased the other is biased.

Octane renders deforming geometry with less headache and really fast with only noise to deal with but renders enclosed spaces with a lot of headaches and takes a lot of gpu power to render those kinds of scenes. And expensive for network rendering.

Kray 2.0 renders deforming geometry with a lot of tweaking involved like lightwave native and can't compare to the speed of octane in that aspect but renders enclosed spaces extremely fast and clean and with 999 render nodes it will eat octane alive for those scenes.

that pretty much answered it http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

for interior renders i wonder if Kray would be faster while still holding very high quality, i'm not sure...
...guess i should check out the Kray forum again a bit...

Kray 3 > scroll down to bottom of page...
http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/forum

------------

a bit about what we can expect as far as speed goes >
http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/forum/index.php?f=53&t=4437&rb_v=viewtopic&start=120#p21704


But this info I can share: new Photon Mapping is around 10 times faster then in K2. I can not confirm yet Final Gathering how fast it is, because is too early but from my tests it is minimum 2-4 times faster render then K2. But to confirm I have to wait for updates from G.

also see, Photon mapping vs. Path Tracing >
http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118

khan973
05-26-2015, 05:39 PM
I'm testing the Beta, as far as speed is concerned, it's way faster than the previous version + it has its vpr in which you can see tonemapping in real time even when changing the values.
It will have its own nodes to deal with things like sss faster.
For interior, it's the best dans fastes for LW users and by far.

lightscape
05-27-2015, 01:12 AM
Yeah kray is best for archiviz. If anyone is doing archiviz projects its easy to get back the money from this plugin. Two archiviz stills will cover the cost and the quality is just cleaner than native lw.

erikals
05-27-2015, 02:29 AM
I'm testing the Beta, as far as speed is concerned, it's way faster than the previous version + it has its vpr in which you can see tonemapping in real time even when changing the values.
It will have its own nodes to deal with things like sss faster.
For interior, it's the best dans fastes for LW users and by far.

sounds great,
when you say "For interior, it's the best dans fastes for LW users and by far"
do you mean compared to Octane as well ?

Cageman
05-28-2015, 02:58 PM
Octane is unbiased, and with enough gfx-cards, it will be faster than anything else. But to get an unbiased renderengine (that does not cheat), to deliver those results, you will have to invest heavily in hardware.

Octane is awesome for what it does, but extremely expensive in order to do networkrendering. So... even if KRay may be slower in most cases; you will never have to invest in expensive hardware to achive similar results (one lic of KRay gives you 999 cpu-based rendernodes for free if I am not misstaken). Put toghether a bunch of QuadCORE $50 machines, and you will have equal power of 4 Titans, but at a much lower cost.

erikals
05-29-2015, 01:30 AM
thanks Cageman, guess i need to keep an eye on Kray...

how about you, do you think you will be using it in the future ?

i think i need to look a bit more into it... check out render costs etc

lightscape
05-29-2015, 11:03 PM
Kray VPR wip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhOW7e1YMms

m.d.
05-30-2015, 12:24 AM
Octane is unbiased, and with enough gfx-cards, it will be faster than anything else. But to get an unbiased renderengine (that does not cheat), to deliver those results, you will have to invest heavily in hardware.

Octane is awesome for what it does, but extremely expensive in order to do networkrendering. So... even if KRay may be slower in most cases; you will never have to invest in expensive hardware to achive similar results (one lic of KRay gives you 999 cpu-based rendernodes for free if I am not misstaken). Put toghether a bunch of QuadCORE $50 machines, and you will have equal power of 4 Titans, but at a much lower cost.

When octane 3 comes out...with cloud rendering options this may be a moot point.

Depends on your situation, for a freelancer with the occasional big render, an on demand big render farm will be pretty awesome. For a studio with constant rendering you may want to have it in house.

jwiede
06-01-2015, 05:12 AM
When octane 3 comes out...with cloud rendering options this may be a moot point.

Depends on your situation, for a freelancer with the occasional big render, an on demand big render farm will be pretty awesome. For a studio with constant rendering you may want to have it in house.

Efficiency still matters -- Kray is more efficient at rendering interiors, so farming Kray nodes will produce greater performance for interior shots than farming Octane nodes, regardless of where. If a user can generate the same quality of interior render results in shorter time / lower cost from Kray renderer versus Octane renderer, in most cases they won't choose the less efficient option.

Tartiflette
06-01-2015, 06:49 AM
Efficiency still matters -- Kray is more efficient at rendering interiors, so farming Kray nodes will produce greater performance for interior shots than farming Octane nodes, regardless of where. If a user can generate the same quality of interior render results in shorter time / lower cost from Kray renderer versus Octane renderer, in most cases they won't choose the less efficient option.
+1, quoted, for full agreement. :)

Octane is great at a lot of things, but definitely NOT for fast interior rendering, unless you're using the (so-so to my taste...) direct lighting kernel and a bunch of Titan X GPUs...
Kray, on the other end is fast even with a medium CPU and it looks like it will be even faster when (long long long overdue) v3 is released, so i don't even think they compete in the same category.


Cheers,
Laurent aka Tartiflette. :)

erikals
06-01-2015, 10:38 AM
so as for Speed vs Quality, Kray3 looks to become a winner ?

i guess, as i've read Kray2 used to be slightly better on interiors than Vray (again, speed vs quality...)

only read it though, so not 100% sure on that quote...

jwiede
06-01-2015, 12:26 PM
so as for Speed vs Quality, Kray3 looks to become a winner ?

i guess, as i've read Kray2 used to be slightly better on interiors than Vray (again, speed vs quality...)

only read it though, so not 100% sure on that quote...

There was a time when Kray and Vray definitely lived and competed in the same performance neighborhood, I can confirm that personally. Others reported even seeing Kray beat Vray at certain types of renders. IMO, Kray being in that neighborhood at all says more than enough about its efficiency and performance.

Lewis
06-01-2015, 12:42 PM
Dunno guys, I'm looking at that Kray3 VPR wip that Janusz did and i can't say i see this as particularly fast ? Half of time he use sosme mode which don't even look like GI, lot of time he needs to hit refresh/reload butotn and i don't find it particularly good lookign result or speedy (lot of blotches)? I hope that vidoe is not recorded on Janusz Dual Xeons v2 but some other mid size CPU??

That scene is Octane scene and in Octane it flies with Single 780GTX GPU, When i turn on all 4 of my 780GTX i have near relatime speed like I'm in game engine and lot nice render result/look than what i've seen in this VRP Kray 3.0 video. I hope that's deep Beta and it will get lot moe spee doptimizations sicne I've been listening that Kray 3.0 is faster than anyhting else.

Octane might not be interior renderign speed champion (alhtough there is some might yimpressive results on their forums/gallery) but for these exterior scenes it's so fast.

jboudreau
06-01-2015, 12:49 PM
Dunno guys, I'm looking at that Kray3 VPR wip that Janus did and i cna't say i see this as particularly fast ? Half of time he use sosme mode which don't even look like GI, lot of time he needs to hit refresh/reload butotn and i don't finid it particularly good lookign result or speedy (lot of blotches)? I hope that vidoe is not recorded on Janus' Dual Xeons v2 but some other mid size CPU??

That scene is Octane scene and in Octane it flies with Single 780GTX GPU, When i turn on all 4 of my 780GTX i have near relatime speed like I'm in game engine and lot nice render result/look than what i've seen in this VRP Kray 3.0 video. I hope that's deep Beta and it will get lot moe spee doptimizations sicne I've been listening that Kray 3.0 is faster than anyhting else.

Octane might not be interior renderign speed champion (alhtough there is some might yimpressive results on their forums/gallery) but for these exterior scenes it's so fast.

+1

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the video. That scene he demonstrated in octane is extremely fast here.

Thanks
Jason

m.d.
06-01-2015, 04:07 PM
Efficiency still matters -- Kray is more efficient at rendering interiors, so farming Kray nodes will produce greater performance for interior shots than farming Octane nodes, regardless of where. If a user can generate the same quality of interior render results in shorter time / lower cost from Kray renderer versus Octane renderer, in most cases they won't choose the less efficient option.

The key point I was addressing is it was stated octane is hard to network render....which is true
But soon it will be effortless

In my situation as a freelancer, I would rather have an on demand super fast cloud render, that can be called on if and when I need it and never needs maintenance or upgrading.
For a studio, that may or may not work....

Another point about octane, it is not completely unbiased.....only the PMC and pathtracing kernels are. When you are dealing with ambient occlusion distance inputs....you are obviously biased. If you render using Direct Lighting kernel, you are using a biased engine.

erikals
06-01-2015, 04:28 PM
Dunno guys, I'm looking at that Kray3 VPR wip that Janusz did and i can't say i see this as particularly fast ? Half of time he use some mode which don't even look like GI, lot of time he needs to hit refresh/reload button and i don't find it particularly good looking result or speedy (lot of blotches)? I hope that video is not recorded on Janusz Dual Xeons v2 but some other mid size CPU??
having seen his renders i'm not too worried about his tests... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif  so hope all is in order in that area...


That scene is Octane scene and in Octane it flies with Single 780GTX GPU, When i turn on all 4 of my 780GTX i have near realtime speed like I'm in game engine and lot nice render result/look than what i've seen in this VRP Kray 3.0 video. I hope that's deep Beta and it will get lot more speed optimizations since I've been listening that Kray 3.0 is faster than anything else.

Octane might not be interior rendering speed champion (although there is some mighty impressive results on their forums/gallery) but for these exterior scenes it's so fast.

that's it i bet, Octane beats Kray on exteriors, not interiors   -  as far as Speed vs Quality

Octane > Exteriors
Kray > Interiors


...maybe

m.d.
06-01-2015, 05:47 PM
having seen his renders i'm not too worried about his tests... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif  so hope all is in order in that area...



that's it i bet, Octane beats Kray on exteriors, not interiors   -  as far as Speed vs Quality

Octane > Exteriors
Kray > Interiors


...maybe

Kray is pretty sweet for interiors.....I've been running it for a while

They better have something new with AA though....GI was never a problem but AA was slow as ever. That is where other renders have a hard time competing with octane. With texture baking coming, animated interiors on Octane will be very viable....

One long slow unbiased render.....and then lightning fast 400-500 sample AA of baked textures. Or if one wants....bake them in Kray (that's why I bought Kray in the first place)