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View Full Version : 2015 and still no mult selction in modelers layer panel. This is ridiculous!!!



jboudreau
01-08-2015, 06:58 PM
Hi Guys

Sorry for the rant but seeing we are in 2015 and we still don't have a multi - select for modelers layer panel. This is getting a little ridiculous if you ask me. You guys added multi-Select for the VMaps panel why not go a step further and do it for the layers panel as well. I thought it was in version 2015 but once I tried the trial version I realized it's not. SOOOOO FRUSTRATING!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

LW3DG you really need to start listening to your users or you're not going to have any more users left. I love lightwave and it's my go to program over any other, but stupid little things like this which seems so easy to implement are just being ignored and has been ignorerd for years and years and years. I've been using lightwave since the video toaster days and still we see simple stuff like this missing from the program. Come on guys you are better than this.

By now we should be able to sort by name, alphabetically, Select multiple ranges of layers etc.

UPDATE:

LW3DG - I just tried the same exact thing in MODO trial version and you can do multi selections no problem you can even filter by name etc. This should be in modeler no ifs ands or buts.

To be honest I think you guys are the only 3D software that can't do it. Max, Maya, Blender, Modo, probably even True Space and Bryce can do it.

Thanks,
Jason

Sensei
01-09-2015, 01:53 AM
LW3DG - I just tried the same exact thing in MODO trial version and you can do multi selections no problem you can even filter by name etc. This should be in modeler no ifs ands or buts.

To be honest I think you guys are the only 3D software that can't do it. Max, Maya, Blender, Modo, probably even True Space and Bryce can do it.


I am adding such filtering by name (in real time, no need to accept by return key) even to the all my private applications that nobody will see.. :)

jboudreau
01-09-2015, 01:58 AM
I am adding such filtering by name (in real time, no need to accept by return key) even to the all my private applications that nobody will see.. :)

Hi

Not sure what you mean , Are you working on a script or plugin that will be able to select multiple layers and filter by name etc

Thanks,
Jason

Sensei
01-09-2015, 02:41 AM
Not sure what you mean ,

I am talking about normal applications, not LW plugins.
Whenever there is list of entries/items, and they have name, I am adding filter string.

Without filtering
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126492&d=1420796312

With filtering
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126491&d=1420796312



Are you working on a script or plugin that will be able to select multiple layers and filter by name etc

Could be done.
But it's lot of work,
would require rewriting entire Layer window.

erikals
01-09-2015, 04:01 AM
yes needs improvement...

at times i use this, helps a bit,...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q39zGeDq6yY

Lewis
01-09-2015, 04:14 AM
Agreed, it's ridiculous that we don't have it yet so i use 3rd party helper plugin for selecting range. Not great but faster than default non existent :).

Layers panel need complete rewamp and tons of missing functions (Filtering like Sensei mentioned, sorting, Locking layers FG/BG, Shading modes for FG/BG,....)

But all in all nobody knows what's going to be with modeling in LW so it's hard to understand/predict why is LWG3D neglecting it (still/again) :(.

MarcusM
01-09-2015, 05:05 AM
Modeler updates in 2015 is walking on thin ice, and this is no users who will break the ice and falls in to water.
In few days i will have LW 2015. I do most modeling, want FBX 2015 etc, expect good improvements in 2015 series, for free. I have also LW CAD from few days, it's very cool but not perfect..

JoePoe
01-09-2015, 11:45 AM
Have you tried doing this in Layout?

Load your layered object. Use Scene editor (new) to filter by name. Click on first name of whatever you want and shift click on last. Use Scene2Modeler (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/scene2modeler/) (or other) plug to save out chunks of related parts.
After you use the plug I would then "clear selected" from scene... just so as not to get confused with what's left.

If the object is too layered for Layout, split it in half in Modeler first.

Sekhar
01-09-2015, 05:03 PM
Sorry, is this a Mac thing? I've always been able to select multiple layers with shift-click as far back as I remember..or may be you're talking about some other thing.

Lewis
01-09-2015, 05:06 PM
Sorry, is this a Mac thing? I've always been able to select multiple layers with shift-click as far back as I remember..or may be you're talking about some other thing.

He is talking about selecting 50 layers with 2 clicks (first+last and it selects all in between automatically) or Paint on mode like Photoshop, not shift+clicking 50 times one by one :).

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 03:57 PM
He is talking about selecting 50 layers with 2 clicks (first+last and it selects all in between automatically) or Paint on mode like Photoshop, not shift+clicking 50 times one by one :).

Yes exactly!! Except with my problem I have to click on 3000 layers at a time.

Snosrap
01-10-2015, 04:09 PM
What conceivable model would have 3000 layers.

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 04:16 PM
Have you tried doing this in Layout?

Load your layered object. Use Scene editor (new) to filter by name. Click on first name of whatever you want and shift click on last. Use Scene2Modeler (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/scene2modeler/) (or other) plug to save out chunks of related parts.
After you use the plug I would then "clear selected" from scene... just so as not to get confused with what's left.

If the object is too layered for Layout, split it in half in Modeler first.

First I tried to open up the FBX file which layout after hours of importing gave an error saying it reached it's maximum layers. Then I finally opened the .obj file in modeler with layers and it opened with over 9000 layers in the object. What I would of liked to do is select all the layers that had the same similar name for example walls or doors that made up over 3000 layers and pasted them all on one layer. Basically re-organize the model so it didn't have so many layers. The issue here is you would have to click on each object one at a time 3000 times. I'm just frustrated that a simple thing like selecting a multiple range of layers is still not implemented into modeler 20 years later. Just ridiculous really.

I've tried using the following plugins, Parts to surface, layers to surface, Scene2Modeler etc. But when you have this many layers it either takes forever to happen and without any progress bar to show you what's happening (Another issue that should be implemented), I'm not sure if it has crashed or it's still working in the background. After hours later and still it's not finished I just close the problem down killing the process in the taskmanager.

I'm after using the plugin select layer range which has helped by typing the number for the beginning layer and the number for the last layer which will pick all the layers in between. The problem though is I can't order the layers by name or filter all the layers by a specific name putting them in order so there are layers in between so I am left to selecting for example 1 - 50 then 80 - 100 then 120 - 160 etc instead of just being able to select 1 - 3000 done.

It's a lot better thanks to this plugin, not having to click on 3000 layers but I still have to run the plugin 50 - 100 time just to get the selection of layers I need which is a lot of wasted time. If LW3DG had sort by name, filters select range of layers implemented something that is now taking me hours and hours could be done in seconds. I could filter the name for example "wall" it would find all the layers with the name wall then I could select the 1st and then last layer in the group selecting them all at once done.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 04:23 PM
What conceivable model would have 3000 layers.

Granted 3000 layers is a lot but I've had models which were 300+ layers easilly 'coz Client had strict naming request rules (and layer names were long also) so that each car part (several car interior(s)) has name of object, interior or exterior, section, part, material ow wha tit was made so it was somewhere along these lines:

- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Speedometer_Needle_Red _Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Speedometer_Needle_Bla ck_Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Fuel_Gruage_Needle_Red _Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Fuel_Gruage_Needle_Whi te_Plastic_Glow
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Leather_Stitching
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Belt_Metal
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Belt_Black_Plastic

etc.etc...

You can imagine how big nightmare was to work/select/name all those in LWM :(. I managed to finish it but would be impossible to finish on time without those 3rd party selection plugin(s) for selecting range and showing layer, although i wanted to trhow myself out of window dozen of times since we can't lock selection of layers to turn it on/off easily :). At one poitn i just wondered should i switch to MAX and do Detaching and naming layers there (they were usign MAX anyway) but i suck at MAX modleing so woudl be faster and slower in same time :).

So Yes there is cases when lot of layers is needed, for whatever reason tha tmight be. And yeah one more thing i notice here on forums - I think that for helping/suggesting people that they shouldn't be using the tool this way or ask for FR but other way when they request feature isn't helping or good practice. We should all support (or not comment ;)) each other Feature Requests, otherwise if nobody is asking DEVs woudl think it's "good enough" ;).

BTW not aiming at you specifically Snosrap (sorry if it sounds that way). I'm saying general 'coz i often see on these forums that people are juming in to other peoples topics saying them we don't need that or this feature etc. etc.. :).

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 04:26 PM
What conceivable model would have 3000 layers.

AutoCAD models. I'm working on a shipyard building that was created in Autodesk Revit. They then exported out the whole building exterior and interior into one huge .obj (666mb) file. Every wall, door comes in as a separate layers. The building is made up of tons of metal trusses and each piece of the trusses come in as a separate layer(you can just image how many layers that would be) I know it sounds crazy and it certainly is. I've been using lightwave for 20 years now and never came across such a huge model but it does exist. In an ideal world I really need to get a hold of the original revit file and export out the pieces the way I need it. The issue here is I don't have access to that model since their are lots of government clearances that have to be taken to release such a file.

Also to be honest it shouldn't matter if their are 100 layers or 10000 layers after 20 years you should be able to multi-select a range of layers in modeler. Their is non excuse for this and I'm sure most would agree.

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 04:45 PM
Granted 3000 layers is a lot but I've had models which were 300+ layers easilly 'coz Client had strict naming request rules (and layer names were long also) so that each car part (several car interior(s)) has name of object, interior or exterior, section, part, material ow wha tit was made so it was somewhere along these lines:

- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Speedometer_Needle_Red _Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Speedometer_Needle_Bla ck_Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Fuel_Gruage_Needle_Red _Plastic
- CARNAME_INT_DASHBOARD_TACHO_Fuel_Gruage_Needle_Whi te_Plastic_Glow
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Leather_Stitching
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Belt_Metal
- CARNAME_INT_SEATS_Front_Belt_Black_Plastic

etc.etc...

You can imagine how big nightmare was to work/select/name all those in LWM :(. I managed to finish it but would be impossible to finish on time without those 3rd party selection plugin(s) for selecting range and showing layer, although i wanted to trhow myself out of window dozen of times since we can't lock selection of layers to turn it on/off easily :). At one poitn i just wondered should i switch to MAX and do Detaching and naming layers there (they were usign MAX anyway) but i suck at MAX modleing so woudl be faster and slower in same time :).

So Yes there is cases when lot of layers is needed, for whatever reason tha tmight be. And yeah one more thing i notice here on forums - I think that for helping/suggesting people that they shouldn't be using the tool this way or ask for FR but other way when they request feature isn't helping or good practice. We should all support (or not comment ;)) each other Feature Requests, otherwise if nobody is asking DEVs woudl think it's "good enough" ;).

BTW not aiming at you specifically Snosrap (sorry if it sounds that way). I'm saying general 'coz i often see on these forums that people are juming in to other peoples topics saying them we don't need that or this feature etc. etc.. :).

This is exactly what I am working on too Lewis, Same strict naming conventions. You had over 300 working on a car this is a huge Building with 100's of rooms etc. I feel your pain man, I was thinking the same thing should I do this in max but like you I am not strong in max and to be honest can't stand the program. I've even tried to work on it in Modo just so I could select the layers using there filter, sorting and multiple selection capability. It's insane that we have to go to LW3DG's competitors software to do something as simple as selecting multiple layer ranges, or filtering and sorting layers etc.

Here is a screen capture of the layers, As you can see their are 8463 layers

126511

126512

I totally agree if people don't jump in and voice their opinon on these matters then the LW3DG is going to think well it's only a few that are having an issue so it's no big deal (When it is a big deal) and it will never get fixed. (I'm not aiming at anyone either, no offence to anyone here) The LW3DG is going to have to realize that their are users of their software that have to work with these kinds of files and as crazy as it sounds their are files that have 1000's of layers which makes it a complete nightmare to work with these especially in modeler.

Thanks,
Jason

spherical
01-10-2015, 04:48 PM
FreeCAD (http://www.freecadweb.org/) may be of use in this situation. We use it mostly for format translation of IGES and STEP but you could load the model into it and select similar part sets; exporting them as one object. Then load the sets into LWM as assembled/combined layers of a type.

Just tested on a multi-part STEP object and it works perfectly. Control-click, Shift-click of any layer combinations > Export > Mesh Formats > extension controls export type. Selected layers come into LWM as one layer, with the parts flying in formation relative to each other. Selecting OBJ file type from the Export dropdown has issues; where using the above method just works. Unsure what the difference is.

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 04:54 PM
Also I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's help, support and suggestions on this matter. I really appreciate it. :) On another note the reason I am writing this is after 20 years we as lightwave users should not have to go to competitors software, jump through hoops etc for something as simple as this. 20 years guys and some have probably been using it for longer. It's just ridiculous if you ask me.

Thanks,
Jason

spherical
01-10-2015, 05:01 PM
Have you filed a Feature Request?

jasonwestmas
01-10-2015, 07:14 PM
Yeah for layout of floor plans for games and such I felt more comfortable in modo's layering system, sorry LW3DG.

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 07:28 PM
Have you filed a Feature Request?

Hi, No I never filed a feature request because this has been something that us lightwave users have wanted and have been asking for years and years. I'm sure that the LW3DG is aware that they need this feature. I mean they have just in version 2015 added multiple selection for the vertex maps. Why if they added this feature in the vertex map couldn't they add it for the layers panel. I mean seriously you are going to have a lot more layers then vertex maps. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 07:31 PM
Yeah for layout of floor plans for games and such I felt more comfortable in modo's layering system, sorry LW3DG.

Yeah I totally agree. I haven't bought into modo yet. I was just using the trial version and to be honest the only thing at the moment that is keeping me from MODO is because I hate there surfacing system and even though there are little simple frustrating things like this I still love lightwave and use it everyday.

jasonwestmas
01-10-2015, 07:36 PM
Yeah I totally agree. I haven't bought into modo yet. I was just using the trial version and to be honest the only thing at the moment that is keeping me from MODO is because I hate there surfacing system and even though there are little simple frustrating things like this I still love lightwave and use it everyday.

Modo works great with LW Layout. So does Zbrush ;)

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 07:40 PM
Modo works great with Layout. So does Zbrush ;)

Yeah I've been debating on it back and forth. I think you are right and probably will get modo if they have another 40% off sale to compliment lightwave and help with the things that are missing in modeler. I guess I will just have to take the time to learn MODO but to be honest I find if very similar to lightwave so I'm sure it won't be too difficult.

Snosrap
01-10-2015, 08:23 PM
BTW not aiming at you specifically Snosrap (sorry if it sounds that way). I'm saying general 'coz i often see on these forums that people are juming in to other peoples topics saying them we don't need that or this feature etc. etc.. :).

I'm total agreement with you guys. :) I was just curious and I thought it might be an improper workflow issue - which it's not from the reply below.


AutoCAD models. I'm working on a shipyard building that was created in Autodesk Revit. They then exported out the whole building exterior and interior into one huge .obj (666mb) file. Every wall, door comes in as a separate layers. The building is made up of tons of metal trusses and each piece of the trusses come in as a separate layer(you can just image how many layers that would be) I know it sounds crazy and it certainly is. I've been using lightwave for 20 years now and never came across such a huge model but it does exist. In an ideal world I really need to get a hold of the original revit file and export out the pieces the way I need it. The issue here is I don't have access to that model since their are lots of government clearances that have to be taken to release such a file.

Also to be honest it shouldn't matter if their are 100 layers or 10000 layers after 20 years you should be able to multi-select a range of layers in modeler. Their is non excuse for this and I'm sure most would agree.

Thanks,
Jason

I've seen so many archvis artists try to build their entire scene (i.e. building and furnishings) in Modeler that I thought this might be the case here. This concern you have is totally legitimate and I have it as well - but I never come close to having 3000 layers in anything. :) It all comes down to the basic building blocks of LW with it's custom GUI and associated toolkit. The naming of the layers falls into the same category - opening that ridiculous floating panel. :)

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah I've been debating on it back and forth. I think you are right and probably will get modo if they have another 40% off sale to compliment lightwave and help with the things that are missing in modeler. I guess I will just have to take the time to learn MODO but to be honest I find if very similar to lightwave so I'm sure it won't be too difficult. Modo is a nice "plugin" for LW. :)

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 08:38 PM
I'm total agreement with you guys. :) I was just curious and I thought it might be an improper workflow issue - which it's not from the reply below.



I've seen so many archvis artists try to build their entire scene (i.e. building and furnishings) in Modeler that I thought this might be the case here. This concern you have is totally legitimate and I have it as well - but I never come close to having 3000 layers in anything. :) It all comes down to the basic building blocks of LW with it's custom GUI and associated toolkit. The naming of the layers falls into the same category - opening that ridiculous floating panel. :)

- - - Updated - - -

Modo is a nice "plugin" for LW. :)

Yeah, I can see how you might of thought that because I have seen that too. I'm actually trying to reduce the model as much as possible by organizing all the pieces of the building. For example gather all the walls that make up the exterior and interior and put them in one layer. Use instances where there are high polygon duplication models like Exhaust Fans, Metal Trusses etc. Anything to basically bring this 9 million polygon model down so it's more manageable to work with. You would think it shouldn't be this difficult to just organize a model but unfortunately even to this day it is with lightwave :(

haha yeah MODO is a nice plugin for lightwave, It's also a very expensive plugin too. I'm hoping it goes back on sale at 40% off again.

Thanks,
Jason

spherical
01-10-2015, 08:39 PM
Hi, No I never filed a feature request because this has been something that us lightwave users have wanted and have been asking for years and years.

The More, The Merrier.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease.

Don't assume that "everyone knows" what is important to you. Don't assume that "someone else" must have filed a Feature Request by this time. If one was filed all that long ago, it probably is out-of-sight/out-of-mind by now. Besides, the team has certainly changed since then. Time for a bump. Perhaps it'll catch someone's eye. If it means as much to you as it seems to, another Vote for it being addressed would be good, No? Oft repeated here that ranting about something in the forums does little, if any, good; other than mere venting. Speak to the devs, not us. We already agree and can do nothing directly to fix the issue.

jboudreau
01-10-2015, 08:57 PM
The More, The Merrier.
Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease.

Don't assume that "everyone knows" what is important to you. Don't assume that "someone else" must have filed a Feature Request by this time. If one was filed all that long ago, it probably is out-of-sight/out-of-mind by now. Besides, the team has certainly changed since then. Time for a bump. Perhaps it'll catch someone's eye. If it means as much to you as it seems to, another Vote for it being addressed would be good, No? Oft repeated here that ranting about something in the forums does little, if any, good; other than mere venting. Speak to the devs, not us. We already agree and can do nothing directly to fix the issue.

Yes you're right the more the merrier

I'm not really assuming that this is just important to me. I mean seriously are you telling me that this is not important to you or anyone else. Have you filed a request for this? I can see filing a request for a feature like bullet contraints, Sculpting brush etc. But I don't see this really as a feature. I see it as a given. This should of been part of the interface years ago. Look at any other software on the market you will see that everyone else has this. Maybe not the filter by name but at least the multi range selection.

Why are you saying that we can't do anything about it. If we all file a request or start saying yes LW3DG we really need this, then maybe they will start listening but if only one or two people file a request or people just keep dismissing thing then they are going to think it's not an important thing to have. Like I said above they added it to the vertex maps panel, why would they do it for one and not the other. I mean the layers panel is going to have way more layers in it than the vertex panel. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they did add it to the vertex panel but why not go one step further and add it to the layers panel as well.

I'll file a feature request but I'm definitely not going to hold my breath seeing it's still hasn't been addressed 20 years later.

JoePoe
01-11-2015, 08:19 AM
First of all.... I agree that a more robust selection ability needs to be available in Modeler.

BUT you can do a lot of what you're asking, selection wise, in Layout.

So, what's the real problem at hand? What's actually holding you up?
Seems to me that the actual issue here is LW's inability to throw around (very) large selections.... whether it's sheer poly count or layer count is unclear (would be interesting to know).
I wonder if a simple cut and paste at the high poly/layer count would also result in an unworkable hang time? Or is it the plugs themselves.
In this regard would modo, Max, Maya, or Blender be any different? I know Zbrush can blow through MMs of polls like butter, and I've read that C4D is pretty good that way too.

Question: How many "sets/groups" do want to boil this object down to? A handful (10? 20?), or "merely" a couple hundred? If it's the first option, breaking the model in half, or even fourths (my laptop can handle 2MM polys with not too much complaining), could work well. Sure you'll have to do everything twice (or 4 times :)), but with easier selection in Layout maybe not too bad? Or... maybe you don't need to break it apart at all, just take smaller bites with the plugs (again, maybe two instead of one is all you need to make things manageable?).

jasonwestmas
01-11-2015, 08:32 AM
I think the real problem here is that it's not the modo way. jk.

But seriously a lot of people want to do layout and modeling at the same time, they don't want to have to hop in between two apps. to do that. . . nor do they like the performance hits when dealing with a lot of layers, lots of tiny movements (Chairs, lights,desks etc.) and a few dense models. It should also be super easy to group layers in a hierarchy so you can turn off the group visibility or transform-ability and still maintain individual layers. Classic photoshop hierarchy stuff but in 3d.

Sensei
01-11-2015, 09:07 AM
What's actually holding you up?

He has no surfaces, just one surface entire object.
Just layers.
3000 of them.
Some/all of them are with suffix _v1, _v2 etc.. dozen of them.

JoePoe
01-11-2015, 09:14 AM
He has no surfaces, just one surface entire object.
Just layers.
3000 of them.
Some/all of them are with suffix _v1, _v2 etc.. dozen of them.

Exactly!

Sort by LAYER name in Layout.
Click/Shift Click and Control Click to multiselect huge/small sections and/or individual layers fluidly.... run down your whole list interactively and (relatively) quickly.
Save out selected layers as new modeler object with plugin....in manageable chunks ;).

motivalex
01-11-2015, 09:36 AM
When the new/updated modeller that has been hinted at is ready, then workflow issues like this will hopefully be addressed. I just hope it is something they can have to us by the end of the year and not 5 years time.

jasonwestmas
01-11-2015, 09:48 AM
I just hope it is something they can have to us by the end of the year and not 5 years time.

I expect you will have tried a different modeler/layout toolset by then. There are a lot of them out there.

Point being that LW3DG neither confirms nor deniess what their modeling priorities are so. . .

jboudreau
01-11-2015, 10:28 AM
Exactly!

Sort by LAYER name in Layout.
Click/Shift Click and Control Click to multiselect huge/small sections and/or individual layers fluidly.... run down your whole list interactively and (relatively) quickly.
Save out selected layers as new modeler object with plugin....in manageable chunks ;).

Hi

Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure but have you ever tried to work with almost 9000 objects in layout. I just tried exactly what you said and all the objects came into layout fine but it kills the classic scene editor. Makes it completely un responsive, slow and unusable. The Dope Editor works a lot better but can be very slow too. Also don't make the mistake of going back to modeler through the hub VERY SLOW!! I'm one of those that still use the
hub to go back and forth but I'll be shutting it off for this model until I can get the layers organized and under control.

So I take it once I have this in layout I use the Scene2Modeler plugin to save all the objects for example the walls on one layer? Or do you know of another plugin?

Also I know their are probably all kinds of crazy, jump through hoop work arounds to do this but it just makes It extremely difficult and it's so much easier in all other 3D software and it should be in Lightwave as well.


Update:

I used Scene2Modeler plugin but only 1000 layers of 3749 came into modeler. Is there a limit to how many objects you can do at once?

Thanks for all your help
Jason

JoePoe
01-11-2015, 11:00 AM
Hi

Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure but have you ever tried to work with almost 9000 objects in layout. I just tried exactly what you said and all the objects came into layout fine but it kills the classic scene editor. Makes it completely un responsive, slow and unusable. The Dope Editor works a lot better but can be very slow too. Also don't make the mistake of going back to modeler through the hub VERY SLOW!! I'm one of those that still use the
hub to go back and forth but I'll be shutting it off for this model until I can get the layers organized and under control.

So I take it once I have this in layout I use the Scene2Modeler plugin to save all the objects for example the walls on one layer? Or do you know of another plugin?

Also I know their are probably all kinds of crazy, jump through hoop work arounds to do this but it just makes It extremely difficult and it's so much easier in all other 3D software and it should be in Lightwave as well.

Thanks for all your help
Jason

:)

1) Right... you can't use the Classic Scene editor for this anyway. It doesn't sort like the other options.
2) Yes Scene2Modeler. It can save selected layers (walls ,doors, whatever) to a new one layered object or it can preserve the separate layers . There is another plug but it's PC only so I can't remember off the top of my head.
3) To be honest 9000 layers is outside of my personal experience....But I'm not taking that number lightly. That's why in my earlier post the main point was that the poly/layer size is the major stumbling block here and not the selection method. I'm thinking most programs would struggle under the load. AND that's why I suggested breaking it into two (or more) pieces or taking smaller bites.

I may sound like a masochist...but I'd like to try. Can you post the obj?

Edit to respond to your edit: I don't know if there's a limit, but 1000 seems pretty darn good. Did it do it in a decent amount of time? Using it 3-4 times, if it'd doing the job, doesn't seem like a huge headache??

jboudreau
01-11-2015, 11:13 AM
:)

1) Right... you can't use the Classic Scene editor for this anyway. It doesn't sort like the other options.
2) Yes Scene2Modeler. It can save selected layers (walls ,doors, whatever) to a new one layered object or it can preserve the separate layers . There is another plug but it's PC only so I can't remember off the top of my head.
3) To be honest 9000 layers is outside of my personal experience....But I'm not taking that number lightly. That's why in my earlier post the main point was that the poly/layer size is the major stumbling block here and not the selection method. I'm thinking most programs would struggle under the load. AND that's why I suggested breaking it into two (or more) pieces or taking smaller bites.

I may sound like a masochist...but I'd like to try. Can you post the obj?

Hi JoePoe

Fortunately I'm using a PC so if you can remember that plugin that would be great!!

Actually it's both poly/layer size and selction method because if you could sort the layers by filter or name in modeler it would be a lot less time consuming.

I tried scene2modeler but it only brought back in 1000 layers of the 3749 layers. I'm in the middle of trying to export out the objects out of layour as FBX and then import the FBX back into Modeler. This again is taking quite a bit of time to accomplish.
It exported out fine from layout but is taking a long time importing back into modeler not sure if it's crashed or not I can see that the layer came in by the black dot on the layer but modeler is still unresponsive

This all is just a very tedious and time consuming process.

I would love to share the model with you but unfortuanetly it's government property and It's extremely confidential information so I am under strict guidelines.

Thanks,
Jason

jboudreau
01-11-2015, 11:20 AM
:)

1) Right... you can't use the Classic Scene editor for this anyway. It doesn't sort like the other options.
2) Yes Scene2Modeler. It can save selected layers (walls ,doors, whatever) to a new one layered object or it can preserve the separate layers . There is another plug but it's PC only so I can't remember off the top of my head.
3) To be honest 9000 layers is outside of my personal experience....But I'm not taking that number lightly. That's why in my earlier post the main point was that the poly/layer size is the major stumbling block here and not the selection method. I'm thinking most programs would struggle under the load. AND that's why I suggested breaking it into two (or more) pieces or taking smaller bites.

I may sound like a masochist...but I'd like to try. Can you post the obj?

Edit to respond to your edit: I don't know if there's a limit, but 1000 seems pretty darn good. Did it do it in a decent amount of time? Using it 3-4 times, if it'd doing the job, doesn't seem like a huge headache??

Yeah you are right 1000 isn't bad at all. That's what I'm after doing now still tons more to do.

Thanks,
Jason

JoePoe
01-11-2015, 11:46 AM
Cool. 1000, or hundreds at a time.... you'll be done before you know it :).

Can't promise it's any more robust, but the other plug is one-click-scene-to-object (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/one-click-scene-to-object/).

I still recommend that after you run a scene2modeler (or other) pass, before you drop the selected layers, run Clear Selected from scene to avoid any confusion on subsequent selections. And the list will get smaller and easier to run through. And it'll become psychologically less daunting. :thumbsup:

jboudreau
01-11-2015, 12:04 PM
Cool. 1000, or hundreds at a time.... you'll be done before you know it :).

Can't promise it's any more robust, but the other plug is one-click-scene-to-object (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/one-click-scene-to-object/).

I still recommend that after you run a scene2modeler (or other) pass, before you drop the selected layers, run Clear Selected from scene to avoid any confusion on subsequent selections. And the list will get smaller and easier to run through. And it'll become psychologically less daunting. :thumbsup:

Absolutely!! Great Tip!!

Thanks god for these plugins too :)

Thanks for all your help
Jason

lardbros
01-11-2015, 12:09 PM
I'm amazed that you can even load a model with 9000 layers!!!
With this model inside layout, what are your load times like???

I've often had huuuge fbx models of building into LightWave but not had much success at all. Never tried them as obj's .
Now (with 2015) fbx models at least have surface names the same as the original model's ones, without the suffixes nonsense.
I do feel your pain though... LightWave needs some serious streamlining when dealing with heavy assets! It feels like it's working against you on larger scenes. Loading times alone are crazy high when you've got a few thousand models and layers coming into layout.

Definitely do a feature request though! I did one recently for having FBX recognise instanced geometry, rather than duplicating each one as a new model, and the devs got back to me saying they'll look into it for after 2015.1

jboudreau
01-11-2015, 12:21 PM
I'm amazed that you can even load a model with 9000 layers!!!
With this model inside layout, what are your load times like???

I've often had huuuge fbx models of building into LightWave but not had much success at all. Never tried them as obj's .
Now (with 2015) fbx models at least have surface names the same as the original model's ones, without the suffixes nonsense.
I do feel your pain though... LightWave needs some serious streamlining when dealing with heavy assets! It feels like it's working against you on larger scenes. Loading times alone are crazy high when you've got a few thousand models and layers coming into layout.

Definitely do a feature request though! I did one recently for having FBX recognise instanced geometry, rather than duplicating each one as a new model, and the devs got back to me saying they'll look into it for after 2015.1

Hi

When I tried loading in the FBX file they provided me the load times were insane. After 2 hours I gave up and still never loaded in.

I then took the .obj model into modeler and checked off one layer in the obj setting panel

Modeler then open the .boj file putting every object on a separate layer giving me 8463 layers.

I saved it off as a .lwo file

Thanks to everyone's help here and some great plugins (Scene2Modeler, one-click-scene-to-object) I opened up the .lwo file in layout which only took a couple of minutes to load all 8463 objects. To be honest I was shocked it was that fast I thought it would of took forever. It did take 8gb of ram luckily I have 32gb on my laptop and 64gb on my desktop. Doing this through modeler and sending the objects through the hub was a bit slower it took around 3-5 minutes.

I'm now using the Dope Editor track to filter out the layers. Using Select inverse to hide the others and using the 2 plugins I mentioned above to export out all the models as one layer. It's a bit time consuming but manageable

I also filed a feature request yesterday haven't heard back from them yet. Hopefully they will implement it so we can do this in modeler and not have to go through all these extra steps

Thanks,
Jason

shrox
01-11-2015, 12:50 PM
He is talking about selecting 50 layers with 2 clicks (first+last and it selects all in between automatically) or Paint on mode like Photoshop, not shift+clicking 50 times one by one :).

Yes, this does not make me happy.

spherical
01-11-2015, 03:54 PM
Did you miss this: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?145173-2015-and-still-no-mult-selction-in-modelers-layer-panel-This-is-ridiculous!!!&p=1417533&viewfull=1#post1417533 Works great.

ernpchan
01-11-2015, 07:24 PM
Lscripts lyrdata doesn't return a proper array of items when a file has a high number of layers. Pythons equivalent has the same problem.

I worked on a script that makes this issue a little easier to deal with but until this bug is fixed, my script is not complete.

Feel free to add your voices in getting this fixed by filing bug reports.

Lewis
01-11-2015, 07:30 PM
Voices, Voices, Voices, more voices.................. :D.

Sensei
01-11-2015, 07:56 PM
Lscripts lyrdata doesn't return a proper array of items when a file has a high number of layers. Pythons equivalent has the same problem.

I worked on a script that makes this issue a little easier to deal with but until this bug is fixed, my script is not complete.

Feel free to add your voices in getting this fixed by filing bug reports.

In LWSDK there are two ways to read layers list.
One way is using integer, so only 32 bits = 32 layers can be handled. LWStateQuery.LayerMask();
Second way is using string, and it has no limit, but processing string is much harder.. Have to parse it, convert to integer etc. LWStateQuery.LayerList();

shrox
01-11-2015, 09:05 PM
Voices, Voices, Voices, more voices.................. :D.

That's why I don't like phones, I hear voices in them. Otherwise I'd call Newtek to complain!

jboudreau
01-12-2015, 12:45 AM
Lscripts lyrdata doesn't return a proper array of items when a file has a high number of layers. Pythons equivalent has the same problem.

I worked on a script that makes this issue a little easier to deal with but until this bug is fixed, my script is not complete.

Feel free to add your voices in getting this fixed by filing bug reports.

I did some testing here and it looks like you can't have anymore than 283 layers in your .lwo file using the lyrdata array. 283 layers or less works great!! :)

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason

ernpchan
02-25-2015, 08:34 AM
Lscripts lyrdata doesn't return a proper array of items when a file has a high number of layers. Pythons equivalent has the same problem.

I worked on a script that makes this issue a little easier to deal with but until this bug is fixed, my script is not complete.

Feel free to add your voices in getting this fixed by filing bug reports.

This looks to have been fixed in 2015.2.

MSherak
02-25-2015, 12:38 PM
Also check this out http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?123893-Layer-Selection-Tools-modeler-LScripts.


Also:
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/make-layer-set-call-layer-set/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/flatten-layers/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/move-layers/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/delete-layer/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/layer-renamer/
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/layer-tools/

-M