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Mr Rid
01-06-2015, 03:02 AM
I give up. No matter what settings I try, I cannot get instances of a keyframed object to offset. The docs only explain Time Offset in reference to a motion path. Burman's tut did not work for me either- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rfl6I0N9YU

What am I missing?
126423

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 06:13 AM
I finally got it to work but not in LW11.6.2 (which is what I am using), but in LW11.5 which is what dwburman was using.

So it seems this is broken in 11.6.x, haven't got LW2015

Cheers

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 06:19 AM
Just tested it in the demo of 2015.1 and it's not working again, so it's seems to be broken in the latest version too!

Not good... :mad::(

Thomas Leitner
01-06-2015, 08:35 AM
...What am I missing?...


Hi David,
you should not use the animated objekt as instance generator.
Set the "Transformation Handling" of the instances to Parent.
Use a negative value (in seconds) for the time offset.
I have attached your, modified scene

ciao
Thomas

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 08:45 AM
Hi Thomas, this still doesn't work, loaded your scene file but all the instances move together no matter what offset I use negative or positive...

I got it working in LW11.5 but that's all, and yes I realised David should not have been using the animated object as the instance generator.

What version of LW are you using?

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 08:54 AM
Hi Thomas, I just thought that you might have misunderstood what David is trying to achieve, that is that every ball in the array should be moving at a different rate to each other.

In your version all the ball instances are move together but are indeed offset to the master, but that's not the effect he is after.

Thomas Leitner
01-06-2015, 09:02 AM
....What version of LW are you using?

Hi Andy,
I have tested it in LW 11.5.1, LW 11.6.2 and LW 2015 demo. It works in all of this versions.

ciao
Thomas

Thomas Leitner
01-06-2015, 09:06 AM
....In your version all the ball instances are move together but are indeed offset to the master, but that's not the effect he is after.

Hi Andy,
this is the way it should work. I do not know what David wants.

ciao
Thomas

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 09:16 AM
I can get it to work, if somewhat crudely, using the nodes and a Random Generator, min -1 max 1 and plugging it into the TimeOffset.

Bit too jump but shows the effect ok.

There must be a way to smooth the jumpiness out but I'm not too hot with nodes I'm afraid.

Cheers

Thomas Leitner
01-06-2015, 09:19 AM
Hi Thomas, I just thought that you might have misunderstood what David is trying to achieve, that is that every ball in the array should be moving at a different rate to each other...

Hi Andy,
to get this effect you can use a procedural texture to drive the time offset in the node editor.

ciao
Thomas

Andy Webb
01-06-2015, 09:32 AM
Yes that seems to work the best, worth know...

Thanks

Mr Rid
01-07-2015, 01:26 AM
Hi Andy,
this is the way it should work. I do not know what David wants.


It should work like in the tutorial- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rfl6I0N9YU with the motion of each instance randomly offset. Both Time Scale and Time Offset do not work like in the tutorial, in either LW11.5.1 or 11.6.3 here, so I guess it is a bug. Random offset really also needs to work with MDD-baked animation.

Andy Webb
01-07-2015, 04:02 AM
I'm not so sure the way it now works is wrong, it doesn't say Random Time Offset, just Time Offset and that works but not in a random fashion.

It may have worked randomly once, in LW11.5 but I suspect the way it works now is possibly correct, need someone from LW3DG to confirm this.

The tutorial is quite old now, and probably should be updated as I suspect LW instances no longer works like that.

Using the texture channel or nodes seems to do the trick, and gives you a more controlled randomness. :)

lino.grandi
01-07-2015, 04:51 AM
126461

Using Array instancing in this case is not the right solution.

Try the attached scene.

Polygons Instancing is used, and a procedural texture to control the randomness of the animation offset.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm not so sure the way it now works is wrong, it doesn't say Random Time Offset, just Time Offset and that works but not in a random fashion.

It may have worked randomly once, in LW11.5 but I suspect the way it works now is possibly correct, need someone from LW3DG to confirm this.

The tutorial is quite old now, and probably should be updated as I suspect LW instances no longer works like that.

Using the texture channel or nodes seems to do the trick, and gives you a more controlled randomness. :)

Yes, that's how it was working before, and it was not controllable at all by the user.

Andy Webb
01-07-2015, 05:04 AM
Thanks Lino for confirming this.

Cheers :)

Thomas Leitner
01-07-2015, 05:13 AM
It should work like in the tutorial- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rfl6I0N9YU with the motion of each instance randomly offset. Both Time Scale and Time Offset do not work like in the tutorial, in either LW11.5.1 or 11.6.3 here, so I guess it is a bug. Random offset really also needs to work with MDD-baked animation.

Hi David,
I suppose that LW 11.5 has a bug. If you choose a offset it should not be random by default. You can randomize it with textures. I have attached a modified scene with a procedural texture to drive the time offset (also works for time scale). For more control you can use weight maps, texture maps or the node editor.

ciao
Thomas

Thomas Leitner
01-07-2015, 05:30 AM
126461

Using Array instancing in this case is not the right solution.

Try the attached scene.

Polygons Instancing is used, and a procedural texture to control the randomness of the animation offset.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, that's how it was working before, and it was not controllable at all by the user.

Hi Lino,
as I mentioned before you have to set the "Transformation Handling" of the instances to Parent not to World as you did.
What is the difference if you use polygons instancing instead of array instancing? For me both works the same.

ciao
Thomas

Andy Webb
01-07-2015, 05:54 AM
Yes this only works when "Transformation Handling" of the instances is set to Parent, why I don't know?

lino.grandi
01-07-2015, 06:57 AM
Hi Lino,
as I mentioned before you have to set the "Transformation Handling" of the instances to Parent not to World as you did.
What is the difference if you use polygons instancing instead of array instancing? For me both works the same.

ciao
Thomas

Maybe you've loaded my scene in 11.6.3?

I've set the Transformation Handling of the instances to Parent. But I made the scene in LightWave2015.1 .

If you load the scene in 11.6.3 you don't even get the procedural texture I've applied to Time Offset.

lino.grandi
01-07-2015, 07:02 AM
What is the difference if you use polygons instancing instead of array instancing? For me both works the same.


Not in 2015.1.

Andy Webb
01-07-2015, 07:06 AM
Yes it works fine in 2015, however if you scrub the time line slowly you can see the instances popping at certain frames...

They suddenly jump in the Y direction, is there a way to smooth that out?

EDIT:

The popping starts after frame 21.

Thomas Leitner
01-07-2015, 07:12 AM
Maybe you've loaded my scene in 11.6.3?

I've set the Transformation Handling of the instances to Parent. But I made the scene in LightWave2015.1 .

If you load the scene in 11.6.3 you don't even get the procedural texture I've applied to Time Offset.

Hi Lino,
of course I have used LW 11.6.2 and LW 11.5.1, because David has also tested in LW 11.6.3 and LW 11.5.1.
Can you please explain the difference if you use polygons instancing instead of array instancing for this case?

ciao
Thomas

Andy Webb
01-07-2015, 07:15 AM
The jumping was resolved in the graph editor, so it is working ok... :)

Instances are working differently in 2015 to how the worked in previous versions.

So a scene saved with instances in 2015 won't work correctly in 11.6.x

lino.grandi
01-07-2015, 07:16 AM
The jumping was resolved in the graph editor, so it is working ok... :)

Yes, it was a quick, dirty test! ;)

Thomas Leitner
01-07-2015, 07:17 AM
Yes it works fine in 2015, however if you scrub the time line slowly you can see the instances popping at certain frames...

They suddenly jump in the Y direction, is there a way to smooth that out?

EDIT:

The popping starts after frame 21.

Hi Andy,
I suppose that the popping comes from the repeated source animation.
ciao
Thomas

lino.grandi
01-07-2015, 07:21 AM
Hi Lino,
of course I have used LW 11.6.2 and LW 11.5.1, because David has also tested in LW 11.6.3 and LW 11.5.1.
Can you please explain the difference if you use polygons instancing instead of array instancing for this case?

ciao
Thomas

The main difference is that using an array this way, you're animating both the source object and the generator. I think that the animation offset just can't be used in this case.

Using a Null to instance the ball as an array, should somehow work imho, but it doesn't. It looks like Array is a very particular case for Time Offset.

tyrot
11-26-2015, 11:26 PM
I was trying to use TimeScale and TimeOffset on a simple bone animation .. and i still cannot randomize the motion. Is there ANY scene files for to examine ?

thanks in advance

Thomas Leitner
11-27-2015, 01:05 AM
I was trying to use TimeScale and TimeOffset on a simple bone animation .. and i still cannot randomize the motion. Is there ANY scene files for to examine ?

thanks in advance

Hi,
you cannot use TimeScale and TimeOffset on a bone animation. It works only with move, rotate and scale.

ciao
Thomas

tyrot
11-27-2015, 01:18 AM
i just cannot believe it ! honestly ... even HD instance eons ago had that feature! ..

i need to instances of of people doing something around . I am using Octane (it has great random surface feature). And now i need many many many MDDs for hiding repetitive work .. i cannot believe..

MDD instance without time offset .. is a nightmare .. even an abomination !

Lewis
11-27-2015, 01:09 PM
Well believe it or not that's the way it is currently with LW instancing :(.

Only way to get that randomization currently is to save multiple objects and adjust *.mdd offset manually for each one manually and then instance those. Lot of work on large scale scenes but that's current workaround.

tyrot
11-27-2015, 01:34 PM
lewis .. dont you think it is a must have feature . arguably most important instancing feature is missing ... yes for exactly same aliens running in a desert that workaround can be useful but when you want to instance .. human .. brain locks down instanced part after 2nd viewing.

.... is there a way to hook dp instance with octane ...