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m.d.
01-02-2015, 04:04 PM
Layout will not launch with modeler running and vice versa.

This is a new development...not sure what caused it.
When launching modeler from inside layout, through the start menu or the hub....it will not start until I close layout. Then it will instantly pop open.
Same goes for modeler.

After launching...I can see in my windows task manager process setting's that modeler is there....but the app will not appear onscreen until the other is closed.

I am sure this is a hub issue....not sure why it popped up now

m.d.
01-02-2015, 04:19 PM
Nevermind....

Kaspersky expired...removing it fixed problem



EDIT: The problem did temporarily go away. Now it is back. Neither program will launch while the other is active.
Hub is completely disabled and still have the same behavior.

spherical
01-02-2015, 07:15 PM
What version of LightWave!?

The problem is back after re-enabling Kaspersky? Turn it off and see what happens. Kaspersky's rules would still be in effect after update. If, due to those rules, LightWave is sensing that another copy is running on the network (where it really is the same copy; just the companion application) it would act like this.

01-02-2015, 08:47 PM
I am having the same issue.
In win8.xx, I see several lw layouts TRYING to start but with no luck.
This is after a crash.

What's not showing up is the old message, "process is already running."
Something is amiss.
Edit: this is with 2015 and 11.6xx.

m.d.
01-02-2015, 09:43 PM
I am just having the problems with 2015 and 2015.1
11.6 working ok

I completely turned off kaspersky and same issue.....something to check in the morning I guess

I am getting same issue as Robert
Multiple processes of layout or modeller shown running but none start, until I close the app and multiple instances of modeller or layout then appear

spherical
01-03-2015, 04:36 AM
No help, not having any issues here (and I'm running eight versions of LightWave on 32-bit and 64-bit, including 2015.1), as are the majority of users, else there would be an avalanche of similar reports. Hence, we need to determine the common factors of the users experiencing this issue.

SO!

When did this start?
What changed just prior? (Install something? Uninstall something? Something you forgot about or disregarded as inconsequential? OS update?)
Start with fresh configs?
Start the OS with minimal startup applications/services?

There has to be a common denomintator.

Ryan Roye
01-03-2015, 12:29 PM
There are some instances with Lightwave where it will require you to exit modeler and close out any instances of Layout in the task manager that may be present, but aren't functioning. After ensuring both layout and modeler are closed, they should re-open without issues. The problem typically happens after certain layout crashes, but I haven't managed to pinpoint exactly when it happens.

m.d.
01-03-2015, 02:43 PM
I appreciate the input guys....

I have a hard time pointing anything out that would have changed.

The most obvious is, kapersky expired.....I bought a new version, removed the old and installed the new. The old was Kaspersky internet security, and the new is just anti virus.

I have disabled that and still have the same issues. There may have been a windows update.....and I have installed Fusion studio...using the dongle they sent me.

I deleted configs, disabled the HUB, added windows firewall exceptions for Layout and modeler and HUB.

This is only happening in BOTH the 2015 versions....the 11 series is running fine.

I have since uninstalled 2015....leaving 2015.1

I am going to investigate further

01-03-2015, 03:47 PM
Mine is occurring when/after using Octane. That is the constant for me.
Otherwise, it can/will start back up after a crash, for example.

m.d.
01-03-2015, 11:45 PM
works in safe mode....so obviously a background process

But licensing does not....will only run in discovery mode. Anyone know the service or app responsible for licensing in lightwave

EDIT: it appears to be the same with 11.6 as well now

m.d.
01-04-2015, 12:12 AM
Interestingly enough....

I can get 2015 and 11.6 to talk to each other (launch 2015 layout and 11.6 modeler) and they will send data back and forth through the hub....

But both 2015, and 11.6 will not allow their companion apps to run while the other is

spherical
01-04-2015, 01:13 AM
Interestingly enough....

I can get 2015 and 11.6 to talk to each other (launch 2015 layout and 11.6 modeler) and they will send data back and forth through the hub....

I realize you are testing but running cross-versions through a Hub of another version can really spell trouble.


EDIT: it appears to be the same with 11.6 as well now

And this is probably the result.

madno
01-04-2015, 03:22 AM
I had problems like this (and mysteriously occuring discovery mode) in the past. In my case it was always related to the Windows Firewall.

Main problem I identified:
I have a security package running that came with its own Firewall. Due to that I disabled the Windows Firewall INCLUDING the Windows Firewall service. This was a mistake. The LW installer needs the service to create rules for the Windows Firewall even if I don't use it at all. And LW needs the Win Firewall service to start. If there was something wrong I got Discovery Mode and other strange behaviour.
126395

Secondary problems:
Sometimes it seems that those Win Firewall rules get messed up somehow. Maybe due to my mistake above or by Win updates or reinstalling LW or the security package or whatever.

What I found out is:
that for me it did not help to delete the Win Firewall rules and create them manually again.

After learning this, I did the following:


I saved all my configs and custom plugins folder of the different LW versions
Uninstalled all LWs
Took care the Win Firewall service was running
Deleted all LW related Win Firewall rules manually in case they were still there
Installed each version of LW again
Checked that each installer of each version of LW had its Win Firewall rule created
126394

Created a rule set in my personal Firewall (the one that came with the security package) to allow the LW components to talk to each other


Furthermore I take care that I always close the HUB in case I switch to a different LW version (running different versions of HUB and Modeler or Layout seems to be not good).

This solved it for me. No problems with Discovery Mode, no LW processes never coming up, no ultra long starting time for an LW process.
But I don't know if this can help with your problems as well.

m.d.
01-04-2015, 08:42 AM
I had problems like this (and mysteriously occuring discovery mode) in the past. In my case it was always related to the Windows Firewall.


I just disabled firewall completely and it did not seem to solve it, although I may try your procedure just to make sure.
Thanks for the detailed post....it will either help me or someone in the future.

m.d.
01-04-2015, 08:44 AM
I realize you are testing but running cross-versions through a Hub of another version can really spell trouble.



And this is probably the result.


Ya I hear ya.....but it cant get much worse.
Not being able to have both Modeler and Layout open at the same time due to a glitch is a pretty powerful argument for a unified app :)

m.d.
01-04-2015, 09:12 AM
I was inspecting using process explorer...kinda task manager on steroids.

When trying to launch Modeler when Layout open.....process manager shows what thread and job each app is using

Modeler appears stuck on thread "Modeler.exe!GetHarwareSerialNumber"
It shows this thread with a cycles delta in the millions and it consuming 8.3% of the CPU cycles

The exact same happens when Layout would be launched with modeler running....and 8.3%


This coupled with the fact that everything works in safe mode (except licensing) leads me to suspect whatever manages licenses for windows/Lightwave may be the culprit. It obviously isn't loaded in safe mode, and the problem disappears.

EDIT: Just removed the license key file and both apps will launch properly (in discovery mode)

madno
01-04-2015, 10:52 AM
Seems like the same strange acting I had on my machine. Stopping the Windows Firewall does not help at all. The license check seems to work via the Firewall service not the Firewall itself. Even if the Firewall is off, the service seems to be able to do something with the Firewall rules. For me the only solution was really to delete the rules and install everything again. If you have not disabled Windows UAC or are not an Admin on your machine, right click the installer exe an select "Run as administrator".

m.d.
01-04-2015, 05:54 PM
Seems like the same strange acting I had on my machine. Stopping the Windows Firewall does not help at all. The license check seems to work via the Firewall service not the Firewall itself. Even if the Firewall is off, the service seems to be able to do something with the Firewall rules. For me the only solution was really to delete the rules and install everything again. If you have not disabled Windows UAC or are not an Admin on your machine, right click the installer exe an select "Run as administrator".

I'll definitely give it a try and let you know.....right now skiing for a few days and getting away from the bloody computer :)

m.d.
01-06-2015, 12:41 PM
Unfortunately it did not work....

I uninstalled all LW versions, removed all configs, removed firewall rules. Reinstalled...checked firewall rules. Same problem

Darksuit
01-06-2015, 01:55 PM
I was having this issue for a while, turns out it was AVG causing the issue. I stopped AVG and everything ran just fine. Turned AVG back on and everything ground to a halt. Neither Modeler nor Layout would run while AVG was running.

m.d.
01-06-2015, 02:11 PM
the issue is definitely kaspersky.

I had tried disabling it, and adding LW to the 'trusted' applications....but even disabled I still had the problems.

I just fully uninstalled kaspersky and everything now works. Gonna try reinstalling to see if it sorted itself out.

EDIT: reinstalling kaspersky reintroduced the problem...taking it up with them now. This is antvirus 2015 for future googlers

madno
01-07-2015, 01:16 AM
Glad that you could solved it.

Darksuit
01-07-2015, 02:08 PM
Good luck with getting the company to fix their issue. I went rounds with AVG in which they kept pointing the finger back to NewTek saying it was NewTeks issue. I got so disgusted with it, that I just uninstalled AVG. Installed Bit Defender which has been working and playing just fine with everything. At work we run Norton and everything works correctly.

Funny follow up. AVG sent me a survey a bit afterwards. I was not kind in my choice of words with the survey.

Cyberfish_Fred
01-09-2015, 04:13 AM
Same here, with LW 11.6.3 and also 11.6.2. Only works both when in discovery mode, after licensing the problem occurs. Stopped my Avira and Fire Wall but didn't help.

What can be the solution? I have a new system, new windows 8.1 and then this.......

Help!!

gordonrobb
01-10-2015, 05:06 AM
I have this problem and don't have AVG or Kaspersky. I use Comodo and have for a long time. This is a new problem and it is a royal pain in the butt.

Cyberfish_Fred
01-10-2015, 05:31 AM
I have this problem and don't have AVG or Kaspersky. I use Comodo and have for a long time. This is a new problem and it is a royal pain in the butt.

No AVG or Kaspersky here, its has something to do with windows 8.1 but what? does Newtek know this?

spherical
01-10-2015, 04:30 PM
Three boxes running Win8.1 in our studio with zero issues. Running the LightWave installer file itself As Administrator, not letting it install into /Program Files and disabling antivirus and firewall while installing prevents a lot of problems in Win8x.

gordonrobb
01-10-2015, 04:34 PM
Tried removing Comodo and it works. Reinstalled it and it fails. Aaaaargh!

spherical
01-10-2015, 04:36 PM
We have used ESET Smart Security for years with no issues and very light resource use.

Cyberfish_Fred
01-12-2015, 01:35 AM
Three boxes running Win8.1 in our studio with zero issues. Running the LightWave installer file itself As Administrator, not letting it install into /Program Files and disabling antivirus and firewall while installing prevents a lot of problems in Win8x.

Uninstalled Lightwave, installed it as administrator, not in program files, same problems.....AAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!

spherical
01-12-2015, 07:44 PM
No AVG or Kaspersky here, its has something to do with windows 8.1 but what?

You said what you are not running. What are you running? I think we've pretty much eliminated Win8x as the sole cause.


Uninstalled Lightwave, installed it as administrator, not in program files, same problems.....AAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!

Just to clarify, you were logged in as an Administrator and ran the installer from the cursor menu choosing: "Run as Administrator", then once the install was complete, set each LightWave executable to "Run As Administrator" in the File Properties > Compatibility tab?

spherical
01-12-2015, 07:49 PM
Duplicate post. Man, I HATE THAT!

gordonrobb
01-13-2015, 03:23 AM
I haven't tried to run as administrator. Must try that.

m.d.
01-21-2015, 10:42 AM
Win 8 administrator is not a full administrator AFAIK....

I have had to enable and log into a dedicated administrator account to install some tricky drivers.

I gave up on the whole matter and just left kaspersky uninstalled....

spherical
01-21-2015, 04:26 PM
Win 8 administrator is not a full administrator AFAIK....

Really unsure what you are meaning, here...


I have had to enable and log into a dedicated administrator account to install some tricky drivers.

Yes, the Administrator is, well, the administrator. Lower level accounts cannot perform Administrator operations. That is why they exist.

Running an executable As Administrator is not the same thing. In order to have most installs go properly, both conditions should exist:


Logged in as an Administrator
Executable (installer in this case) Run As Administrator through the Right-click cursor menu selection.



BTW, the Administrator account should either be renamed or another account having administrator capabilities be created and the original Administrator account be deleted.

m.d.
01-21-2015, 11:46 PM
Really unsure what you are meaning, here...

Yes, the Administrator is, well, the administrator. Lower level accounts cannot perform Administrator operations. That is why they exist

Didn't see your response above....we are saying the same thing..meaning well...the same thing, by definition....similar :)

gordonrobb
01-22-2015, 02:37 AM
My experience is that my account has full administrator rights. However, it does not operate like it does have them. I think that is what he was referring to.

m.d.
01-22-2015, 10:13 AM
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/activate-windows-super-administrator-account

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/9650-built-administrator-account-enable-disable-windows-8-a.html


To be more precise.....win 7/8 admin is not the same as XP admin

8 has unelevated admin accounts, and elevated admin accounts

spherical
01-22-2015, 05:35 PM
Yes, that is why you execute installers through Run As Administrator, which is an elevated operation, requiring manual response before proceeding.

m.d.
01-22-2015, 09:52 PM
which in theory should be enough.....

I have had to use the elevated admin once before though....removes any possibility of UAC interference

gordonrobb
03-13-2015, 12:24 PM
Has anyone got anywhere with this? I'm fed up having to stop Layout to run Modeller and vice versa.

Darksuit
03-13-2015, 06:22 PM
At the moment I have no issues with BitDefender or Norton (which is what we are running at work). But the issue lies with the Hub and So called Virus Protection. I eventually just uninstalled AVG and installed Bit Defender instead. No issues since.

m.d.
03-16-2015, 11:37 AM
I had to completely remove kaspersky....

Pausing protection, disabling everything....having exceptions for all LW modeller and HUB made no difference

Completely uninstalling it was the only solution for me....never had an issue since

gordonrobb
03-16-2015, 11:42 AM
Comodo is the same. Stopping it, or exiting the programe doesn't make the problem go away. Only uninstalling it. I looked at bit defender, but it's an anti virus prog. It's a firewall I want. Running with just Windows firewall at the moment, which I am not pleased about.

spherical
03-17-2015, 12:50 AM
Testified in other threads multiple times. ESET Smart Security. No issues; 32-bit or 64-bit. I'm sure that there are others, but ESET SS is the best I've found. Light on system resources; which is a primary concern here, very customizable, and includes anti-theft for the many who run LW on portables.

gordonrobb
03-17-2015, 01:16 AM
I have no doubt it's good. Comodo Firewall is good too. Have had it running for years. It picks up threats all the time. And it's free. Then out of the blue Lightwave stops working? It's definitely a change in the way 8.1 handed stuff I'm sure. I just wish someone could find it.

spherical
03-18-2015, 02:45 AM
You get what you pay for. Always has been the case. Might be "free" for a while.... but, then, we've always known that there's no free lunch and the "payment" comes along; one way or another. Stick to "free" if you like. Been there, done that. Some things just aren't worth the hassle.

It all boils down to this: Do you want to spend untold amounts of billable time (whether you are a hobbiest or a freelancer or working at a studio makes NO difference) chasing this or just get something that is capable and works?

gordonrobb
03-18-2015, 02:53 AM
I don't disagree with you in general. However, Comodo firewall, which I have been using for a good few years has never been an issue, and still is not an issue with every piece of software I use, except Lightwave. Also, there are people here who are using other pieces of software (some commercial) which are having the same issue. If noone knows for sure what is causing teh problem, how do I know that if I invest in paid software to do the job, that it will work? And what recourse will I have if noone is going to 'own' the problem. This is three pieces of software that used to play nice (Windows, Lightwave, Comodo) and now they don't. However, there doesn't seem to be any focus on fixing it.

spherical
03-18-2015, 03:29 PM
And what do the folks at Comodo say?

jwiede
03-18-2015, 07:17 PM
If noone knows for sure what is causing teh problem, how do I know that if I invest in paid software to do the job, that it will work?

This is a key point, IMO. Just changing software is no solution, esp. if any given pkg might suddenly become a "problem firewall" (which it could due to lack of clear root cause analysis). A lot of the arguments being made in this thread are anecdotal, based on very small sample sizes, rely on false causative assertions, etc. Without knowing what is causing the problem, the problem could easily occur with any firewall depending on config. The approach being taken isn't really ruling anything out, so lacks diagnostic value.

LW is having the problem, so initially it is LW3DG who bear the responsibility for solving it, or showing that they are not responsible for it, period. If they want to blame firewalls, then they need to prove that LW's expectations are not "unusual" (incl. full documentation of what those requirements are for proper function), and show by error path or whatever that the problem is because the firewall (or whatever) IS NOT meeting some specific requirement ("LW requires inb traffic on port 1022 and isn't receiving any"). Until they can do that, the responsibility still rests with them.

Gordon, call LW support (or call their main phone number and ask for support, whatever), explain the problem, etc. Until they can tell you why the app isn't working, there's absolutely no reason to think the problem lies elsewhere.

m.d.
03-18-2015, 09:21 PM
i did call newtek...the response was "we dont have time to troubleshoot every third party firewall"

didn't have the time to screw around so I just uninstalled kaspersky

gordonrobb
03-19-2015, 02:18 AM
I honestly haven't contacted Comodo. Didn't even think to. They don't have a problem. I'm with jwiede on this. It's Newtek that have a problem. I suppose if I contacted comodo, they may be able to help me identify what it is actaully picking up, but if its only causing a problem with this one programme on my system, it's hard to imagine they will have any desire to do anything other than suggest that Newtek have a problem. Someone there (in my opionion) should be at least having a look at what has changed (probably with Windows) that is now making this happen.

jwiede
03-19-2015, 12:20 PM
i did call newtek...the response was "we dont have time to troubleshoot every third party firewall"

The proper response to that is "What, in LW's logs/console/whatever, specifically indicates why the app failed to start?" "App didn't start" isn't a "specific cause" by itself, something caused the app to fail during start, and it is their responsibility to show that event was triggered by other than LW itself (if they intend to blame others).

"We don't have time to troubleshoot every third party firewall" is a cop-out, they haven't convincingly shown causation has anything to do with firewalls. They are being asked to troubleshoot LW failing to start, and that is their job. If they refuse to do that, escalate to LW3DG management.

gordonrobb
03-19-2015, 02:56 PM
What he said!

spherical
03-19-2015, 05:51 PM
In this case, I agree, too. That is a totally BS answer to come back to a customer with and, at the very least, there should be a comeuppance dispatched; if for nothing else than lack of tact. Certainly not good CR/PR.

intssed
12-29-2015, 01:42 AM
I detect my way. Turn off ZoneAlarm Extreme Security, run Modeler an Layout 2015.3x64 and turn again on antivirus.

jasonwestmas
12-29-2015, 03:32 AM
Yeah i had to get in the habit of closing the hub program before restarting lightwave (After a crash Or lockup). Otherwise i would get issues like the ones you are describing.

DigitalDeuce
07-20-2016, 12:59 PM
One thing that I just learned, is on ASUS machines, or other systems, you might have "ROG Game First III" -- disable this service, and you should be good. Not sure if this is what you're finding, but worth knowing about.

DaveyWaver
07-26-2016, 12:10 AM
Hi DigitalDeuce,

Thank you, this fixed the problem for me so far :D

MoonCat213
05-17-2018, 01:02 AM
Just ran into this problem out of the blue with LW2018 and 2015. Taking advice from DigitalDeuce I uninstalled ROG Game First III and now Layout and Modeler work together again. Thanks!

jwiede
05-20-2018, 04:48 PM
I had to completely remove kaspersky....

Pausing protection, disabling everything....having exceptions for all LW modeller and HUB made no difference

Completely uninstalling it was the only solution for me....never had an issue since

There are too many examples of LW having issues with such protection apps to claim that _all_ such protection apps are just "broken" and should be disabled. Like it or not, there's a LOT of evidence mounting up that this is a _Lightwave_ problem, not a protection app problem.

The behavior encountered strongly suggests that Newtek is not completely disclosing the entire set of firewall and other resource exceptions required by LW apps & Hub to function properly, and that the missing ones are fairly important to proper operation.

Just recommending users disable resource-protection-type apps is risky, unsafe advice, particularly when done without fully disclosing the risks users are being exposed to in following that advice (as is occurring).