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stiff paper
12-15-2014, 06:31 AM
Well.

That'll be interesting news for modo users. And by interesting I mean trouser dampeningly horrific. Offhand, I just can't think of an organisation that spends all its time acquiring new 2D/3D tech by buying up smaller companies. Can you?

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/12/15/special-effects-company-foundry-expected-sell-200m

lightscape
12-15-2014, 06:49 AM
Autodesk will be first to pick it up be chopped up into pieces. Glad I stopped using modo after they were bought.

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=4&t=94740

hrgiger
12-15-2014, 07:29 AM
If Autodesk buys The Foundry, I see Modo sharing XSI's fate.

My view on The Foundry merging with Luxology was that Brad and the gang sold out. They gave up their independence for cash. Not a popular view but if Autodesk does become the new owner, I think a lot more people will more then likely adopt that viewpoint.

And yeah Lightscape cant say Im second guessing my decision to sell my Modo license. But what do people expect from a company that is owned by an investment firm like the Carlyle group? A sale was more then likey inevitable.

50one
12-15-2014, 07:47 AM
The sky is falling!

Maybe Newtek will buy them? That would be funny as hell! LOL

Snosrap
12-15-2014, 07:48 AM
I think AD would keep Modo alive if aquired. I remember seeing a presentation of theirs a few years back where Modo was used as a comparsion to their products and they weren't negitive towards it in anyway and actually seemed somewhat concerned that it could effect their market share.

50one
12-15-2014, 07:53 AM
yup, bingo - truth is that there need be an app for freelancers small studios who can afford sub $4k app yearly. kinda "poundshop" tactic - sell more for less rather than just few expensive things.
But I fear the development can stagnate...

Nicolas Jordan
12-15-2014, 08:05 AM
I might actually put off my upgrade to 901 next year until the smoke clears and the dust settles. Hopefully The Foundry will come out the other end free of Autodesks shackles.

kopperdrake
12-15-2014, 08:06 AM
I just thank the various gods that NewTek have remained independent all this time, and naysayers should really count their 3D chickens that so far our refuge has remained undiscovered. We quibble about the smallest of irks at times, but something like this can ruin people in one fell swoop. A LightWave buyout would kill a lot of people off, or make life very uncomfortable in the short run.

stiff paper
12-15-2014, 08:42 AM
My view on The Foundry merging with Luxology was that Brad and the gang sold out.
The very idea of it being a "Merger" was such a blatant piece of absurd P.R. nonsense from the get-go. Private Equity doesn't merge. It devours, and then at some point down the line it works out whether to poop or puke what it's eaten.

Also, Luxology was funded mysteriously from the start anyway. Maybe it was always private equity and all that happened was that they swapped one lot for another. And far from selling out, I suspect that Brad and Co didn't have any say whatsoever in what happened. But who knows. All I'm doing is guessing.


I think AD... ...actually seemed somewhat concerned that it could effect their market share.
And you are aware, right, that what you say they wouldn't do is exactly and precisely, right down to the tiniest speck of detail, what they did with XSI?

JohnMarchant
12-15-2014, 09:17 AM
Glad i never brought into Modo, no matter who ends up owning it. Don't think NT would be in there, it will be AD or another equity group who don't care a damn about the software or people just the money.

I am sad as there were high hopes from Brad and the crew for Modo and its still not there yet and now i can see many holding off their upgrade until this is sorted out.

brent3d
12-15-2014, 09:25 AM
I just thank the various gods that NewTek have remained independent all this time, and naysayers should really count their 3D chickens that so far our refuge has remained undiscovered. We quibble about the smallest of irks at times, but something like this can ruin people in one fell swoop. A LightWave buyout would kill a lot of people off, or make life very uncomfortable in the short run.

Totally agree with you! Look at modo users (like me) now, duped by the rantings of Brad. "We are merging.." yeah right! They got the money and sold out to the Foundry, then tried convince the users that it was a good thing...it's pure sell out and instability. say what you will about Lightwave, but we are still standing on our own feet. So don't be a sellout, Join the Rebellion!, that's what the new slogan should be.

brent3d
12-15-2014, 09:44 AM
The sky is falling!

Maybe Newtek will buy them? That would be funny as hell! LOL

OMG! Talk about Karma..that would be to funny!

brent3d
12-15-2014, 09:49 AM
But I am laughing though, at all the Modo users that abandoned Lightwave..lol. Have fun with your Autodesk Modo:thumbsup: or whoever else picks it up.

Emmanuel
12-15-2014, 10:05 AM
I guess 2015 will be tougher for modo because zbrush gets an expanded modelling toolset.

stiff paper
12-15-2014, 10:06 AM
Please let's not gloat. "There but for the grace of god..." is a much better attitude.*

It's not even as if anybody knows what will happen yet, and if the worst happens (which, let's be honest, is an AD acquisition) there's going to be a lot of miserable modo users. S'not nice to laugh at people when they're feeling miserable.


* Not to be taken as implying belief on my part.

hrgiger
12-15-2014, 10:34 AM
I think AD would keep Modo alive if aquired. I remember seeing a presentation of theirs a few years back where Modo was used as a comparsion to their products and they weren't negitive towards it in anyway and actually seemed somewhat concerned that it could effect their market share.

Concerned about their market share from a competing product is one thing, buying a product and further developing it is another. If XSI with its non destructive nature and its ICE system couldnt continue as a product under Autodesk, what chance do you think Modo has?

lightscape
12-15-2014, 10:47 AM
And softimage had a much bigger userbase and heavily involved in many studios yet AD killed it. No way they keep modo alive.
Sad thing is there's only Autodesk that would buy and benefit from this. Don't really see Adobe going for it.
BM just bought fusion so they won't be interested. Maybe that even triggered this decision to let go of Nuke while its hot.

ianr
12-15-2014, 11:41 AM
The scuttlebutt out on Wardour Street, London Town.
Is that it's above, out The Modoists hands. It is really being
shaped & groomed by the City-boys. As we can all remember
the boom & the bust years for very large CGi boutiques in L.A.
Maybe the financiers want to off load at the top the cycle,
last years Oscar etc, the shoe-in was Modo to beef up the portfolio.
Look, it's a 'City Thaung'. If I get a 'sniff' in the City,i'll post again:rolleyes:....

bobakabob
12-15-2014, 12:28 PM
Concerned about their market share from a competing product is one thing, buying a product and further developing it is another. If XSI with its non destructive nature and its ICE system couldnt continue as a product under Autodesk, what chance do you think Modo has?

The death of XSI really was a case of "the unacceptable face of capitalism". A tragedy for artists everywhere that such cutting edge creative technology was deliberately spiked by AD accountants. With some imagination it could have been allowed to grow, but in this cutthroat world of investment groups with their EdExcel balance sheets that wasn't going to happen. As a Lightwave user for nearly 20 years I'm thankful Newtek have maintained their independence. I for one could never have started in the field (and probably been stuck with RayDream) had Lightwave cost the price of a car in the mid 90s. The cynics out there seem to forget all this and IMHO should praise the company for its egalitarian vision, making 3D accessible to the masses. Looking forward to *investing* in LW2015 next year ;)

Nicolas Jordan
12-15-2014, 12:37 PM
If Autodesk took control of The Foundry along with Modo I would bet that there would be at least a short term surge in sales for both Lightwave and Cinema 4D.

calilifestyle
12-15-2014, 01:42 PM
I don't know but i say DDS , Dassault Systems would be another possible buyer

gerry_g
12-15-2014, 01:58 PM
Last french program I bought was Amapi RIP, no faith in that at all besides how does high end compositing fit with nurbs tools, time to learn Maya, devil has my soul, taxman has my money, might as well give the rest away to subscription, oh wait I have an organ donor card

robertoortiz
12-15-2014, 02:13 PM
Here is the original article
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Tech_and_Media/article1495621.ece

mav3rick
12-15-2014, 02:35 PM
yea looks like i will skip update to 901 next year... this all smells to me like messiah fiasco. take money and run

erikals
12-15-2014, 03:30 PM
bit info here >
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=94740&p=849080

hrgiger
12-15-2014, 03:35 PM
bit info here >
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=94740&p=849080

Which is just a longwinded way to say....

This is what we've accomplished since the Luxology/Foundry merger (acquisition). Its a lot of stuff to distract you from the reality that we can't actually know at all what will happen when a new company buys the Foundry. Roll the dice Modo users.

cresshead
12-15-2014, 04:30 PM
assimilation - resistance is futile...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10683422_10152949118627871_7196480883666566058_o.j pg

rdolishny
12-15-2014, 07:09 PM
I just thank the various gods that NewTek have remained independent all this time, and naysayers should really count their 3D chickens that so far our refuge has remained undiscovered. We quibble about the smallest of irks at times, but something like this can ruin people in one fell swoop. A LightWave buyout would kill a lot of people off, or make life very uncomfortable in the short run.

I could not agree more.

But seriously this Foundry-being-sold talk is pretty dramatic. Foundry has had multiple owners in the past, and the current owners are looking to make a return on their investment. Pretty standard stuff for a public company.

And nobody has said anything about Autodesk. Please, let that rumor die for now. You can kiss Modo goodbye if that happens but let's not think about that for now, please.

Now if could have only got my Warner McGee training video I tried desperately to pay for on the Foundry site ... I NEVER had a payment problem with Modo when they were Luxology. I got a sense of so many departments trying to sort out my problem. Something to do with being a Canadian card paying in US dollars... dunno. After 40+ attempts I gave up.

Kaptive
12-15-2014, 07:16 PM
You inspired me Cresshead :D ...and then proceeded to get carried away...

http://i61.tinypic.com/289ea8j.jpg

lightscape
12-15-2014, 09:41 PM
bit info here >
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=94740&p=849080

One thing you have to admire from the old lux team. They always make a presence in the forums. They will post and not disappear for long periods of time.


If I were NT I would have a 10-20% sale on new and upgrade licenses of lightwave right now before C4d makes that move.
Join the rebellion! :D

Ernest
12-15-2014, 09:44 PM
You inspired me Cresshead :D ...and then proceeded to get carried away...


MAAAAaaaaaassive spoiler!

brent3d
12-15-2014, 09:55 PM
One thing you have to admire from the old lux team. They always make a presence in the forums. They will post and not disappear for long periods of time.


If I were NT I would have a 10-20% sale on new and upgrade licenses of lightwave right now before C4d makes that move.
Join the rebellion! :D

Yes! They definitely need to capitalize on this news.

brent3d
12-15-2014, 10:07 PM
bit info here >
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=94740&p=849080

OMG! Damage control already...as if they didn't know that users would find out about them selling? Huh? They are just doing the same dance they did when the foundry bought Modo..."technically everyone is for sale" really Brad? REALLY!?!
Lightwave 2015, well timed LW Group:lwicon:

sami
12-16-2014, 02:31 AM
bit info here >
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/post.aspx?f=4&t=94740&p=849080

I really tend to shy away from these water cooler conversations, and any time I do dabble here, my posts are practically invisible ;) but if I were a betting man, Peebler put a huge number of hints in that post (at least the way I read it).
All that talk about "CGAM", him explaining it's computer graphics for advertising and marketing, and him saying he's personally visiting clients in this market to promote Modo there, it seems as though Adobe is the target buyer. Not much 3D in the CC suite except for the Photoshop bits & pieces and a touch in AE. Pretty much nails it for them - would be a great purchase to assimilate and incorporate into their offerings - not so sure for the vfx community though...

JohnMarchant
12-16-2014, 03:28 AM
Maybe as has been said a LWG3D Crossgrade offer to Modo users.

JohnMarchant
12-16-2014, 03:36 AM
As for what Brad said, well stating the obvious. However AD brought XSI and we know how that ended. Everything is for sale but only if you want to sell it, you are not forced to if you own it 100%. I'm assuming he means that Foundry is top for VFX because Modo certainly is not by a long shot.

Im glad that NT/LWG3D is still independent, the sooner you hand it over to another company and especially a company that knows nothing about what your software does or cares (Carlyle Group) then you will eventually piss everyone off as its about money and only money.

stiff paper
12-16-2014, 03:48 AM
...lux team. They always make a presence in the forums. They will post and not disappear for long periods of time.
And yet they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about what they're working on right now, and they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about what's going to be in the next release, and they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about when the next release is going to be. If what people want is to feel all wrapped up in the loving embrace of a fluffy-soft, god-like, surrogate father/company that bestows constant doting attention and assures everybody that they're cared for oh-so-very-much then... yeah, I guess the Lux team's got you covered. Brad's right on the money with his almost weekly happy happy talk club. He's got his pep talk salesman schtick down to a fine art (and yes, that's a skill that definitely has value, and he really is good at it).

Other than that, the flow of actual information is exactly the same as with the LW team.


OMG! Damage control already...
I think anybody that owns modo has every right to be concerned and angry, but nobody ever seems to consider that maybe they sold themselves to The Foundry because they were about to run out of money and absolutely had to sell. It's definitely possible. Hrgiger called it selling out, which sounds like betraying the users for money, but really, if the option was to go out of business then... there isn't any option, is there? Again, who knows? What I do know is that it's totally okay to be angry and disappointed, but it's not so great to attack the people personally, because we just don't know what the deal was.

Most people just try to get through as best they can, and for all we know, that's all that's been going on with Lux. We don't know.

50one
12-16-2014, 05:02 AM
And yet they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about what they're working on right now, and they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about what's going to be in the next release, and they NEVER SAY ANYTHING about when the next release is going to be. If what people want is to feel all wrapped up in the loving embrace of a fluffy-soft, god-like, surrogate father/company that bestows constant doting attention and assures everybody that they're cared for oh-so-very-much then... yeah, I guess the Lux team's got you covered. Brad's right on the money with his almost weekly happy happy talk club. He's got his pep talk salesman schtick down to a fine art (and yes, that's a skill that definitely has value, and he really is good at it).

Other than that, the flow of actual information is exactly the same as with the LW team.


I think anybody that owns modo has every right to be concerned and angry, but nobody ever seems to consider that maybe they sold themselves to The Foundry because they were about to run out of money and absolutely had to sell. It's definitely possible. Hrgiger called it selling out, which sounds like betraying the users for money, but really, if the option was to go out of business then... there isn't any option, is there? Again, who knows? What I do know is that it's totally okay to be angry and disappointed, but it's not so great to attack the people personally, because we just don't know what the deal was.

Most people just try to get through as best they can, and for all we know, that's all that's been going on with Lux. We don't know.



That's where the internal beta is useful - those guys know:)

I think most people wouldn't give as much damn if not that famous modcast done after XSI acquisition regarding not selling Modo.

stiff paper
12-16-2014, 05:24 AM
I think most people wouldn't give as much damn if not that famous modcast done after XSI acquisition regarding not selling Modo.
Yes, but the way Brad has always talked about "Not selling out" is specifically one of the things that most makes me think they wouldn't have done it unless they were forced into it out of desperation.

(And if TF and modo end up with The Evil Empire (TM) then I think people will give a damn anyway, and it won't be anything to do with what Brad said in a modcast.)

kopperdrake
12-16-2014, 07:17 AM
The cynics out there seem to forget all this and IMHO should praise the company for its egalitarian vision, making 3D accessible to the masses. Looking forward to *investing* in LW2015 next year ;)

Quoted for absolute agreement. People can ***** and moan about things, but at the end of the day, we are bloody lucky to have a piece of software it's possible to make a good living from, without the fear of what's around the corner from an investment company. If LightWave folded, for me it would be a life-changing event. For any small company it would be a life-changing event for all involved - small companies can't invest in more than a few pieces of software, we have ONE type of 3D generalist software (LightWave), we have ONE set of CAD software (Autodesk Inventor), we have ONE set of graphics software (Adobe Suite), etc. But of all of the pieces of software we have, the 3D generalist software would be the hardest to have to relearn from scratch. CAD software has clones, looky-likeys, as does Adobe. 3D software all seem to have their own way of doing things, their own workflows, their own foibles.

Honestly, if something happened to LightWave, I would personally have to think long and hard about the future - learn another piece of 3D software, or go and make cider for a living - it really would be a tough choice. I know which side my bread's buttered, and that's part of the reason I upgraded us to LightWave 2015. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a bloke who's spent too many years learning LW to give up on it on a whim, and speak for another bloke who's learned it sat next to me. And this LightWave 3D Group team has shown me they can do good stuff with it, and navigate some very rocky waters, despite a world-wide recession. If anyone deserves my money it's them.

hrgiger
12-16-2014, 07:38 AM
First, I dont think the acquisition of Luxology by the Foundry happened because Lux was desperate or needing money to stay afloat...

Secondly, when I say that Luxology sold out, Im just saying they gave up control over theur company which they formed after leaving NT. They wanted to be independent and yet within a decade they gave up the ability to control their own company's future. Now, no matter what Brad/Stuart/Ferguson wants concerning Modo's future, it's completely out of their hands if a company like AD or Adobe steps in and decides Modo is not important to their business model.

jasonwestmas
12-16-2014, 08:59 AM
I guess 2015 will be tougher for modo because zbrush gets an expanded modelling toolset.

I like to gloat about that. :). I should've seen it coming.

kadri
12-16-2014, 09:21 AM
Over at the that Modo forum was this post from WillBellJr:

" Quote from Phungus :I assume they donīt have deep enough pockets,
but wouldnīt it be ironic if Newtek bought TF? :-/



LOL, the most perverse circle ever!

I'd imagine as punishment, the Core (ahem) team would immediately be fired - or worse,
they'd keep Brad around as the President of taking Rob Power's notes or some such! Such a torturous ending - the thing of nightmares!

Please, don't give them ideas like this - some people love their sweet revenge - and at any cost too!"


Sorry couldn't stop posting this here :D

Surrealist.
12-16-2014, 09:29 AM
But of all of the pieces of software we have, the 3D generalist software would be the hardest to have to relearn from scratch. CAD software has clones, looky-likeys, as does Adobe. 3D software all seem to have their own way of doing things, their own workflows, their own foibles.

Honestly, if something happened to LightWave, I would personally have to think long and hard about the future - learn another piece of 3D software, or go and make cider for a living - it really would be a tough choice. I know which side my bread's buttered, and that's part of the reason I upgraded us to LightWave 2015. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a bloke who's spent too many years learning LW to give up on it on a whim, and speak for another bloke who's learned it sat next to me. And this LightWave 3D Group team has shown me they can do good stuff with it, and navigate some very rocky waters, despite a world-wide recession. If anyone deserves my money it's them.

I can tell you it would not be as hard as you think. Part of the reason is, honestly, that when you buy into LightWave as a workflow you do buy into something very unique in terms of how other tools work. Most of it for the worst, honestly, in my opinion, but also some of it is a combination of what is familiar and what is actually easier. More emphasis on what is familiar than what is actually easy. But there is both.

The hardest transition I made was away from LightWave the first time. From LightWave to any app, is going to take a bit to get used to.

But you take a lot of the fundamentals with you. All the years, all of that, is mostly learning what you are doing not what you are doing it with.

I say all of this not to challenge your choice of LightWave, but because I hate to see an artist, looking at a future and not having any choices. There are no guarantees. And it would be something you'd have to confront at that point in the future. But I think you'd find a good deal of things transition with you. And there are a lot of us around who have made this transition.

I think the stability of LightWave is not in the fact that it is an independent company, it is more in the fact that they have no choice but to doggedly move ahead with gradual improvement over the years. Just as they have done.

I would be worried less about LightWave being snatched up and more about LightWave being able to continue compete in a rapidly changing market which is being dominated by companies that can afford to offer competitive pricing, which is happening more and more. Yet, LW 3D group and NT are sticking to the old school pricing schemes which, over time, will become not enough to compete.

It could be that being snatched up by a company - should anyone ever be interested - would be something good for LW development which is really far behind. A boost in resources would help get LW over the hump. There is a lot of work ahead and I think LW 2015 is evidence of that.

jasonwestmas
12-16-2014, 12:05 PM
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. That doesn't mean you have to give up one basket but sometimes it's inevitable because of various constraints or you found a killer tool combo that might not include previous toolsets.

ianr
12-16-2014, 12:24 PM
A Difficult time 4 some, Let us all not go 'Wibbley-Wobbley' again,
Or go 'sarky' cos the app begins with M 4 Modo inside Foundry, NOT L 4 Lightwave.

Please can we remember in this season the words of Bishop Occam (1287–1347)

" Hypothesises should NOT be Multiplied" : Occam's Razor.


He was a Dude, Peace be upon him.

Que sera sera. Maybe be its Karma?

Kaptive
12-16-2014, 12:44 PM
Quoted for absolute agreement. People can ***** and moan about things, but at the end of the day, we are bloody lucky to have a piece of software it's possible to make a good living from, without the fear of what's around the corner from an investment company. If LightWave folded, for me it would be a life-changing event. For any small company it would be a life-changing event for all involved - small companies can't invest in more than a few pieces of software, we have ONE type of 3D generalist software (LightWave), we have ONE set of CAD software (Autodesk Inventor), we have ONE set of graphics software (Adobe Suite), etc. But of all of the pieces of software we have, the 3D generalist software would be the hardest to have to relearn from scratch. CAD software has clones, looky-likeys, as does Adobe. 3D software all seem to have their own way of doing things, their own workflows, their own foibles.

Honestly, if something happened to LightWave, I would personally have to think long and hard about the future - learn another piece of 3D software, or go and make cider for a living - it really would be a tough choice. I know which side my bread's buttered, and that's part of the reason I upgraded us to LightWave 2015. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a bloke who's spent too many years learning LW to give up on it on a whim, and speak for another bloke who's learned it sat next to me. And this LightWave 3D Group team has shown me they can do good stuff with it, and navigate some very rocky waters, despite a world-wide recession. If anyone deserves my money it's them.

100% on all points. At the end of the day personally, Lightwave has allowed me to create a business that has supported me for nearly 16 years now. It allows me to work from home so I can do my own thing too without travel. Yes there is hard work in there too, but I am invested in LW and support it because without it I'd probably have to outlay a fair chunk of money and do a hell of a lot of mental adjustment and learning... almost to the point of doing something else (though I do think you're probably right Surrealist). I really feel for anyone in that position using Modo.

When LW3DG use the term "Join the rebellion", I think it is a pretty real situation, and not just some slogan. Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens I guess.

kopperdrake
12-16-2014, 03:42 PM
I can tell you it would not be as hard as you think. Part of the reason is, honestly, that when you buy into LightWave as a workflow you do buy into something very unique in terms of how other tools work. Most of it for the worst, honestly, in my opinion, but also some of it is a combination of what is familiar and what is actually easier. More emphasis on what is familiar than what is actually easy. But there is both.

The hardest transition I made was away from LightWave the first time. From LightWave to any app, is going to take a bit to get used to.

I get the jist, and when push came to shove, it might be easier than I suspect, but the reality is it's not just the software relearning. The libraries we have built up over the years are all biased to the LightWave workflow. We have libraries stretching back donkey's years, my models, textures, projects for clients who've been with us for 10 years, who still come back. We can dig out old projects, borrow bits, setups, textures, models, and throw something out much quicker than we could if it were all from scratch. Then there are simple things like settings for scenes, the look and feel of a project. When a client has over 1,000 objects all rendered to look the same from us, and we switch packages, then the new stuff had better look like all the old stuff, as they switched to us from photography precisely because the standardisation was an aspect of CGI they liked.

I'm not averse to using various bits of 3D software alongside each other, to get a job done, but to have another major 3D package sat next to LightWave would be ridiculous, if only to make sure all the eggs weren't in one basket. The time is not there to keep ahead of the curve for a small company, the budget is not there to keep various assets up to date for both workflows, and the complexity of having two packages in place with regards workflow would be impossible. We are a small outfit - three of us, you'd have to be larger to warrant various pieces of major 3D software. As it is we use LightWave, Inventor, Vue, and Blender where needed for fluids. If we jumped ship, it would be to another one-horse show, and we have thought about it, especially during the Core days. But at the end of the day, I don't knee-jerk, and luckily LW has pulled through. I have used Max in the past, in games, mainly for special effects, and it left me cold when using it. Having said that we did look into it again a couple of years ago as a way of integrating with the CAD side of things, as we use the Autodesk Inventor suite. Know what we found? Max was as useless at dealing with object translation from Inventor as LightWave, so we stuck with LightWave - pointless moving over.

Nope - you balance up purchase methods, time invested, workflow and a deep-seated history and, for many, LightWave still ticks enough boxes to see us through. We do a hell of a lot of work for a company in the top ten FTSE Index - we can't show any of it under NDA, but their agency comes to us, usually with ridiculously tight deadlines, because we can turn the project around quickly, on time. I put that down to the workflow of LightWave, and how well we know it. They have guys in-house using other software, yet we still get the gig. They could go to any 3D guys they want, yet they use us, and another LightWave artist I know.

I always keep one eye on the future, but for now LightWave still ticks those boxes :)

Andrewstopheles
12-16-2014, 04:15 PM
I have always been a little skeptical, honestly, since the separation of Lightwave 3D Group from Newtek, as a possible move to improve positioning for a sale. I still think this is possible, so I guess for me it's good that Lightwave is staying put for now.
As a HardCORE charter member, I am likely going to lose my membership status as I am currently unemployed and coud not justify funding an upgrade to Lightwave 2015 when the return is minimal improveents and no real money making new features for me. That being said, I'm still sticking with Lightwave as my main 3D app. I was once tempted to invest in Modo but stuck with LW and am glad I did.
I mean no disrespect, Lightwave is my 3D app of choice and Newtek / Lightwave 3D Group are still surviving in these difficult times.

Megalodon2.0
12-16-2014, 05:37 PM
If LightWave folded, for me it would be a life-changing event. For any small company it would be a life-changing event for all involved - <snip>

Honestly, if something happened to LightWave, I would personally have to think long and hard about the future - learn another piece of 3D software, or go and make cider for a living - it really would be a tough choice. I know which side my bread's buttered, and that's part of the reason I upgraded us to LightWave 2015. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a bloke who's spent too many years learning LW to give up on it on a whim, and speak for another bloke who's learned it sat next to me. And this LightWave 3D Group team has shown me they can do good stuff with it, and navigate some very rocky waters, despite a world-wide recession. If anyone deserves my money it's them.

I think you're being a little overly dramatic. First, if LW did stop development, that doesn't mean that your current version of LW would stop working. How many people using XSI will still be using it YEARS to come? (I'm still using 5.5 in my workflow) You will have PLENTY of time - in fact as long as you want - to find and learn another package. If it happened to us, it would be Blender for certain. But you certainly don't have to jump out of the boat to find another boat - you can stay with the boat you're in and then slowly make your way to another. I don't relish the idea of HAVING to learn another piece of 3D software - especially at my age and learning capabilities - but I think I'm in a better position now since I don't have to learn what a point is, what a polygon is, what a node is, etc.

brent3d
12-16-2014, 06:18 PM
First, I dont think the acquisition of Luxology by the Foundry happened because Lux was desperate or needing money to stay afloat...

Secondly, when I say that Luxology sold out, Im just saying they gave up control over theur company which they formed after leaving NT. They wanted to be independent and yet within a decade they gave up the ability to control their own company's future. Now, no matter what Brad/Stuart/Ferguson wants concerning Modo's future, it's completely out of their hands if a company like AD or Adobe steps in and decides Modo is not important to their business model.

Totally agree.

jasonwestmas
12-16-2014, 06:25 PM
I think you're being a little overly dramatic. First, if LW did stop development, that doesn't mean that your current version of LW would stop working. How many people using XSI will still be using it YEARS to come? (I'm still using 5.5 in my workflow) You will have PLENTY of time - in fact as long as you want - to find and learn another package. If it happened to us, it would be Blender for certain. But you certainly don't have to jump out of the boat to find another boat - you can stay with the boat you're in and then slowly make your way to another. I don't relish the idea of HAVING to learn another piece of 3D software - especially at my age and learning capabilities - but I think I'm in a better position now since I don't have to learn what a point is, what a polygon is, what a node is, etc.

Makes perfect sense. I'm really not sure why a lot of people are so black and white, on/off about software. They can coexist in the same pipeline or for different projects.

brent3d
12-16-2014, 06:42 PM
I can tell you it would not be as hard as you think. Part of the reason is, honestly, that when you buy into LightWave as a workflow you do buy into something very unique in terms of how other tools work. Most of it for the worst, honestly, in my opinion, but also some of it is a combination of what is familiar and what is actually easier. More emphasis on what is familiar than what is actually easy. But there is both.

Have you experienced Max's or Maya's workflow? Omg! Whenever we interview a Max or Maya user it takes them forever to describe their process's for getting work done, as if though they would get a gold star for the level of difficulty..lol. To say LW's workflow is "unique" and "most of it for the worst" is insane since LW is known heavily for it's workflow and getting the job done when other software couldn't and doing it with fewer people. All the major 3D apps have different workflows, Lightwave and Modo are the most similar when is comes to modeling, as Maya and XSi are, so making statements the make it sound like LW is just different from all the rest just isn't true and is misleading.

jhinrichs
12-16-2014, 07:08 PM
Makes perfect sense. I'm really not sure why a lot of people are so black and white, on/off about software. They can coexist in the same pipeline or for different projects.

I completely agree. To expand on this a little, I'm don't understand the smugness of some of the posts in this conversation. If the worst-case scenario is Autodesk buying up Modo and killing it like SGI then all of us on the other side of the Autodesk fence are gonna suffer to some degree. It's another high-quality, relatively inexpensive, Lightwave-friendly option that would be unavailable to us. Tragic.

Surrealist.
12-16-2014, 08:05 PM
Have you experienced Max's or Maya's workflow? Omg! Whenever we interview a Max or Maya user it takes them forever to describe their process's for getting work done, as if though they would get a gold star for the level of difficulty..lol. To say LW's workflow is "unique" and "most of it for the worst" is insane since LW is known heavily for it's workflow and getting the job done when other software couldn't and doing it with fewer people. All the major 3D apps have different workflows, Lightwave and Modo are the most similar when is comes to modeling, as Maya and XSi are, so making statements the make it sound like LW is just different from all the rest just isn't true and is misleading.

Sure that's true. I'd agree it would be misleading in that context. But in LightWave's case it is the only app out of all of them that is split. And most of the worse scenarios I mentioned are strictly because of this (currently).

Of all of the software I use Maya is the best all around generalist software for workflow and tool set. It is weak in Modeling however. But it is getting some love.

I am mainly trying to say that you don't have to fear change and moving to other software. For me I found it liberating to learn Blender the first time. Then I moved from that to Softimage and finally to Maya. These experiences were profound on my opinions about software in general. And it is from those experiences I speak.

I don't mean to come down on LW for the sake of it. It was my first love and I have used it for 20 years. But that does not mean I can't evaluate things based on my experience. And passing on that experience the intention is to inspire other artists to explore and have an open mind.

Not mislead or pass false information. Rather to encourage people to look for themselves and make up their own mind.

robertoortiz
12-16-2014, 09:35 PM
http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/12/15/special-effects-company-foundry-expected-sell-200m
Some news..

roboman
12-16-2014, 10:06 PM
I don't think Modo is the majority of the value at the Foundry or the reason some one might buy them. It's always interesting to see how this stuff goes. Seen lots of sales where the buyer didn't even take a close look at the 'little' companies that were owned by the company they were buying. Suddenly it's theirs and they have to figure out what to do with this asset they now own, that weren't the reason for buying the parent company. I don't see Autodesk buying the Foundry, but who ever does buy the Foundry might be interested in selling off it's 'minor' assets to recoup some of the cost of buying the parent company. Autodesk may come into play at that point. Who ever buys the Foundry may decide Modo is a really cool thing and fits their business plan. You never know. Hell who would have guessed that Autodesk would buy Yost group and get into animation/fx or that some start up would decide that their video editing hardware needed to be bundled with an animation/fx software. It's all just guesses, until after it happens and the dust settles.

hrgiger
12-17-2014, 02:57 AM
http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/12/15/special-effects-company-foundry-expected-sell-200m
Some news..

That's the article that started this thread, why is this news now again?

Netvudu
12-17-2014, 06:16 AM
Of all of the software I use Maya is the best all around generalist software for workflow and tool set. It is weak in Modeling however. But it is getting some love.


Itīs interesting that Maya for the last years looks like being directed towards a generalist software indeed, and less towards VFX (where it is clearly dominated by Houdini right now).

I was tempted to agree with your statement because their toolset is indeed pretty wide, but thereīs a problem with Maya in order to be considered a generalist tool...the render engine. Mental Delay is clearly falling behind times at a huge pace. Itīs slow, itīs complex and itīs lacking more and more new stuff. Having to invest 1,000$ in order to be able to get out anything decent from a 3d app is a big nono while looking for a generalist software.

In fact, if Autodesk purchased TF (which I still doubt) they could very well GET Modoīs render engine and develop on it, because as many software as they already own, they still donīt have a render engine at all!

Surrealist.
12-17-2014, 07:37 AM
I would agree with you on the rendering as well. I am comfortable in Mental Ray. After I learned how to use it. Not as complex as people think in my opinion. Just different. In fact the Maya version has some reliable presets. Pretty much one click sets up physical sun and sky and gets you rendering right away. From there of course you have to tweak.

But there is hardly a software that is not free of this problem - not even LightWave - this is why there are so many 3P render solutions out there. I am not a big fan of Vray having used it. But I am hopeful that Renderman at less than half the price will prove to be useful.

So as a generalist software, you can also argue in certain situations that LW render is slower. So I would not say this is anything new or different to say Mental ray is slow and lacking in modern features. But for most things out of the box Mental Ray is more than adequate. And I feel the same way about LightWave's native rendering.

Additionally the shaders in Mental Ray can set you up automatically with the basic settings you want. Transferring maps in Mental ray to various slots is also faster and more intuitive than LW layer system. Nodes is another story. But also in Mental Ray for Maya you have the nodes automatically connected when you set up your maps. So you can acess the data two ways. Like to see something like this in LightWave. Not either or, but a layer set up that also automatically connects nodes in the BG.

brent3d
12-17-2014, 10:06 AM
Please let's not gloat. "There but for the grace of god..." is a much better attitude.*

It's not even as if anybody knows what will happen yet, and if the worst happens (which, let's be honest, is an AD acquisition) there's going to be a lot of miserable modo users. S'not nice to laugh at people when they're feeling miserable.


* Not to be taken as implying belief on my part.

Not laughing at what may happen to Modo or it's customers (like me), but at the BS that many spouted, including Brad, about LW. They tried to step on LW to make Modo appear better, I'm sure LW lost some users because of that, so I have no sympathy for those who were involved.

VonBon
12-17-2014, 10:26 AM
What has any 3D App come out with lately that was really ground breaking?

I don't see any Software really breaking ground at the moment, so I think the
LW3DG has time to catchup with the competition. Hardware development is moving pretty fast
though which will open up new doors for on the fly automated/dynamic and intelligent design.

If I were LW3DG I would still focus a lot on Layout because I believe that ZBrush will become
the industry leader for modeling in the future and be a must have application.

As for The Foundry, who has enough money to by them?
These Hedge Fund people are on the same team so it won't matter, its all about controlling the market,
and you do that by limiting choice.

brent3d
12-17-2014, 10:40 AM
Sure that's true. I'd agree it would be misleading in that context. But in LightWave's case it is the only app out of all of them that is split. And most of the worse scenarios I mentioned are strictly because of this (currently).

Of all of the software I use Maya is the best all around generalist software for workflow and tool set. It is weak in Modeling however. But it is getting some love.

I am mainly trying to say that you don't have to fear change and moving to other software. For me I found it liberating to learn Blender the first time. Then I moved from that to Softimage and finally to Maya. These experiences were profound on my opinions about software in general. And it is from those experiences I speak.

I don't mean to come down on LW for the sake of it. It was my first love and I have used it for 20 years. But that does not mean I can't evaluate things based on my experience. And passing on that experience the intention is to inspire other artists to explore and have an open mind.

Not mislead or pass false information. Rather to encourage people to look for themselves and make up their own mind.

Cool beans Surrealist. My experience has shown that LW is best for generalist and the split app has proven to be beneficial over the years, and whatever Modeler couldn't do Modo would. So we just disagree on that stuff, but I'm totally about users learning and knowing how to function across the major applications, their lively hood may depend on it..lol I usually make most of my apps use the same short cut key layout that I have for LW...works great:thumbsup:

- - - Updated - - -


What has any 3D App come out with lately that was really ground breaking?

I don't see any Software really breaking ground at the moment, so I think the
LW3DG has time to catchup with the competition. Hardware development is moving pretty fast
though which will open up new doors for on the fly automated/dynamic and intelligent design.

If I were LW3DG I would still focus a lot on Layout because I believe that ZBrush will become
the industry leader for modeling in the future and be a must have application.

As for The Foundry, who has enough money to by them?
These Hedge Fund people are on the same team so it won't matter, its all about controlling the market,
and you do that by limiting choice.

I agree, Lightwave 2015 is rightly named:lwicon:

brent3d
12-17-2014, 10:44 AM
Makes perfect sense. I'm really not sure why a lot of people are so black and white, on/off about software. They can coexist in the same pipeline or for different projects.

Very true! What we look at in regards to 3D applications is efficiency and budget, outside of that if an app has *.lwo feature then it's basically a done deal.

Tranimatronic
12-17-2014, 10:56 AM
What has any 3D App come out with lately that was really ground breaking?

I don't see any Software really breaking ground at the moment.

Off the top of my head, in the last year:
mesh fusion.
Houdini 14 with the sand.

wyattharris
12-17-2014, 11:05 AM
That article guesses Foundry might be worth 200M. I would've thought more. (Not based on anything of course)


If I were LW3DG I would still focus a lot on Layout because I believe that ZBrush will become
the industry leader for modeling in the future and be a must have application.I believe this will become my standard pipeline. Model everything in ZB and render in LW. God I wish Pixo would hurry and release. :bangwall:

realgray
12-17-2014, 11:34 AM
That article guesses Foundry might be worth 200M. I would've thought more. (Not based on anything of course)

I believe this will become my standard pipeline. Model everything in ZB and render in LW. God I wish Pixo would hurry and release. :bangwall:

This does look nice with Fusion thrown in.

Surrealist.
12-17-2014, 12:39 PM
But I don't think the Zbrush modeling tools are going to be good enough to replace other modelers. It will be nice to have them in there, I don't know. Have to look at the videos again but it did not strike me the first time as a replacement for anything, More like a convenience when doing a Zbrush project. And a lot of projects make no sense to do in ZB.

WillBellJr
12-17-2014, 02:20 PM
Over at the that Modo forum was this post from WillBellJr:

" Quote from Phungus :I assume they donīt have deep enough pockets,
but wouldnīt it be ironic if Newtek bought TF? :-/



LOL, the most perverse circle ever!

I'd imagine as punishment, the Core (ahem) team would immediately be fired - or worse,
they'd keep Brad around as the President of taking Rob Power's notes or some such! Such a torturous ending - the thing of nightmares!

Please, don't give them ideas like this - some people love their sweet revenge - and at any cost too!"


Sorry couldn't stop posting this here :D


Yeah, I tickled myself with that one, I have to admit - though while it was funny, the laugh is definitely short-lived considering the situation...

http://www.willbelljr.net/public/funnypics/Kanye_notfunny.gif



-Will

kadri
12-17-2014, 02:25 PM
If it is something i think you mean, i wrote this to the Terragen forum for example :

"16 pages long as i write this.
Brad Peebler wrote in page 5 if you are curious Michael.
No news other then anxiety, frustration, hope and optimism. The last two are mostly in Brad Peebler's post ;)

I would be sorry to see the software go away like Softimage. I was looking for Softimage for the future and Modo too :( "

Oedo 808
12-17-2014, 04:35 PM
I like the optimism of the Modo chaps, it must be difficult with there being the air of uncertainty, but taking the development of Modo since the 'merger' with The Foundry as a sign of reassurance seems to me to be a bit like a turkey being reassured by its being fattened up in the run up to Christmas as a sign that it was going to live a long and prosperous life.

Still, I hope that Modo doesn't go the way of the dodo.

jasonwestmas
12-17-2014, 04:59 PM
But I don't think the Zbrush modeling tools are going to be good enough to replace other modelers. It will be nice to have them in there, I don't know. Have to look at the videos again but it did not strike me the first time as a replacement for anything, More like a convenience when doing a Zbrush project. And a lot of projects make no sense to do in ZB.

I think you be wrong in some ways about Zbrush 5. . .yada yada, but we'll see! Like always there will be the personal taste thing that has to weigh in for any application. For me I think I'll be in there for all my modeling. Not for final textures mind you.

Netvudu
12-17-2014, 07:33 PM
which videos? are there any ZBrush 5 videos already?

Surrealist.
12-17-2014, 07:49 PM
It was the summit as I recall:

http://pixologic.com/summit/

I think there is a video in there someplace about the new modeling tools.

Jason, you could be right. I will of course explore them when they come out. Just going on recollection.

This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Jcopj-j6A

Davewriter
12-17-2014, 08:43 PM
And in the middle of it all, I got an invite email today:
Valid until 12am (PST) Friday December 19.

Hi Julia,

Our 48-hour flash sale on MODO has started! Act today, and get a new seat of MODO for as little as $897 / Ģ599.40 / €701.40. Plug-ins, kits and training are on sale too.

Buy before 12am (PST) Friday December 19 and get:

40% off new seats of MODO

Surrealist.
12-17-2014, 10:58 PM
Cool...

On topic, I have been watching Modo over the years and I like what I see. I think if they continue dev at the rate they are it will really start to show some promise. Under the Foundry I think they have done well. As this is truly still an up and coming software (for character animation and effects) I'd put my bets on things continuing in that vein. Of course we don't know what a purchase means, but I'd be inclined to expect positive things.

hrgiger
12-17-2014, 11:02 PM
It was the summit as I recall:

http://pixologic.com/summit/

I think there is a video in there someplace about the new modeling tools.

Jason, you could be right. I will of course explore them when they come out. Just going on recollection.

This one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Jcopj-j6A

That's Zbrush 4r7, the next free update from Pixologic, not Zbrush 5 which hasn't been revealed at all yet.

Surrealist.
12-17-2014, 11:28 PM
I was never talking about Zbrush 5. I was not even paying attention to a number. Someone mentioned the new modeling tools. Those are the only ones I know of and that are announced. Zbrush 5 I just assumed was somebody's logical speculation based on what has been announced already for 4.7

Megalodon2.0
12-17-2014, 11:42 PM
Of course we don't know what a purchase means, but I'd be inclined to expect positive things.

I would bet that the XSI folks hoped the same thing. :cry:

Surrealist.
12-18-2014, 12:59 AM
Yeah me too. Honestly I did not see that coming. In retrospect I see why it happened. So I don't think Modo is in the same position. I can't draw a direct comparison to what happened with Softimage. I do still see it improving and gaining from more resources. I do agree with what Brad has said and that there is very good reason to see it as a positive move upward. I could be wrong.

Megalodon2.0
12-18-2014, 01:30 AM
Yeah me too. Honestly I did not see that coming. In retrospect I see why it happened. So I don't think Modo is in the same position. I can't draw a direct comparison to what happened with Softimage. I do still see it improving and gaining from more resources. I do agree with what Brad has said and that there is very good reason to see it as a positive move upward. I could be wrong.

Well, the fact of the matter is... no one can see this as positive OR negative - until we know who the buyer is. Only THEN can there be speculation with any degree of accuracy. Also, what could anyone expect Brad to say? Even if he knew that Modo was being bought by AD, he probably couldn't tell anyone and he's not going to say anything negative in any event. One wrong word and he could send nasty shockwaves for any sales before the sale/acquisition and that could affect their personal revenue. All he did in that thread at Lux was state facts about the past - no "facts" about the future. And I wouldn't expect him to since he probably doesn't know what the future holds.

I do tend to agree with HR though, "merging" with the Foundry removed most of the independence from Lux and IMO doesn't bode well in the long run. If TF was independently owned as Lux was - i.e. without the Carlysle Group as owners - then the merger (again, IMO) would have been much better. But now with all being owned and most likely having no say in who buys them... they are at the mercy of the buyer. And since Modo isn't quite up to the quality of XSI, unless it's someone who needs both a high-end compositor and an up and coming 3D software, I have my doubts about Modo's future. I honestly hope it sticks around since I like the Lux group and we need as much competition in this arena as possible.

jasonwestmas
12-18-2014, 07:02 AM
I just hope the new owner of the Foundry doesn't have a strong foot in the 3D market already. (That doesn't mean the new owner shouldn't have a dedicated team of CG experts at the helm.) I would loose a lot of respect for whomever if the Foundry was just handed over to some company that clearly doesn't know what to do with maintaining and improving 3 remarkable CG packages, so they have to kill one. I mean common that would be too devastating to be real.

hrgiger
12-18-2014, 07:24 AM
Yeah me too. Honestly I did not see that coming. In retrospect I see why it happened. So I don't think Modo is in the same position. I can't draw a direct comparison to what happened with Softimage. I do still see it improving and gaining from more resources. I do agree with what Brad has said and that there is very good reason to see it as a positive move upward. I could be wrong.

I can't say I felt the same. I bought XSI 7 right around the time that ICE was first introduced and shortly after it was bought by Autodesk. Shortly after that, I stopped using XSI. I didn't have much faith that things with XSI would get better under Autodesk's control. I don't always get things right, but I sure nailed that one. I understand why people use Autodesk products, especially with their position in the industry, but being independent as I currently am, I don't like supporting companies like that if I can help it. I don't particularly enjoy having to use Adobe but this year I may just opt for a Photoshop subscription and strip back from using Creative Cloud full and find alternatives to Premiere and After Effects. Probably Fusion perhaps now that its free.

Concerning Brad's 'comments', you don't see that as a lot of spin? In his position, he probably has no choice but to speak positive about the new ownership. Unless he wants sales of Modo to completely tank, and they probably will take a hit in any event until this dust settles, it's probably in his best interests to portray the sale of the company as business as usual. That's not to say that it will definitely be a bad thing, but if AD or Adobe does acquire The Foundry which seem like two likely suitors, I can't in any way see that as positive for Modo. If XSI with its proven architecture and ICE visual programming environment couldn't make the cut under Autodesk, what chance does Modo have? And no offense to Modo, it really isn't even in the same league as XSI and I still wonder about the long term viability of its Nexus architecture.

lightscape
12-18-2014, 07:31 AM
Why are people calling it a merger at the Foundry forum? Denial....
The moment Luxology was bought by Carlyle I made an exit. I knew Brad and co were not in charge anymore and powerless. It was only a matter of time before the investors would want to profit from their asset.

regular
12-18-2014, 08:15 AM
Maybe some of the programmers/designers that went to Modo from Newtek will return back into the fold? :)

Surrealist.
12-18-2014, 08:23 AM
Concerning Brad's 'comments', you don't see that as a lot of spin? In his position, he probably has no choice but to speak positive about the new ownership. Unless he wants sales of Modo to completely tank, and they probably will take a hit in any event until this dust settles, it's probably in his best interests to portray the sale of the company as business as usual.


Yeah sure, I think that is true.

But I also think he is a hard working honest guy who has brought a lot of good. So yeah, I agree with his positive view within that context as a given. I don't feel the need to be skeptical just because of that. I can take it at face value and I think he has a lot of good valid points to make and I happen to agree.

cresshead
12-18-2014, 09:57 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10841936_10152954329542871_5418224537761945964_o.j pg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10872770_10152954383282871_3253590993865993771_o.j pg

whilst we wait for the video edit...

MAUROCOR
12-18-2014, 10:46 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10841936_10152954329542871_5418224537761945964_o.j pg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10872770_10152954383282871_3253590993865993771_o.j pg

whilst we wait for the video edit...

Hey, dude, it is not funny!

cresshead
12-18-2014, 12:39 PM
check this out

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/10860859_10152955718527871_7426303657192102776_o.j pg

MAUROCOR
12-18-2014, 02:19 PM
check this out

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/10860859_10152955718527871_7426303657192102776_o.j pg

THAT is funny!!!:D

robertoortiz
12-18-2014, 02:44 PM
THAT is funny!!!:D

Wow you love salting that wound. Great post!.

cresshead
12-18-2014, 03:00 PM
Wow you love salting that wound. Great post!.

if any of my feeble photoshop attempts have even the slightest impacts in Autodesk nudging them NOT buying the foundry then it's all worth while in my opinion.

Megalodon2.0
12-18-2014, 04:11 PM
if any of my feeble photoshop attempts have even the slightest impacts in Autodesk nudging them NOT buying the foundry then it's all worth while in my opinion.

If you think that AD listens to anyone BUT their stockholders... you are very mistaken. Money is all they listen to - NOTHING else matters to them.

(And yes, I know that you already know this. :))