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frank1880
12-12-2014, 11:43 PM
Expanding on http://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/17143/how-do-designers-render-their-work-onto-an-iphone-android -- how would one go about recreating that iPhone screen in Lightwave with its soft glassy look and hints of LCD illumination?

I was surprised today when I pasted a screenshot via Photoshop how lifeless and dull it looked.

spherical
12-12-2014, 11:44 PM
Make that surface partially Luminous.

frank1880
12-13-2014, 06:39 AM
Thanks! I went on to google luminosity in Lightwave and found http://www.imagecommunications.de/tutorials/surfacethickness.html -- except for the displacement bumps isn't that pretty much what I'm looking for?

The ideal would be glass as beautiful as Martin Hajek's 3dsmax models:

http://www.martinhajek.com/

Surrealist.
12-13-2014, 06:44 AM
Show us what you have so far.

djwaterman
12-13-2014, 07:58 AM
It's quite simple as Spherical's said, make that screen surface brighter (Surface Editor-Luminosity), and have a sheet of glass over it, build it much like the real thing and it should look much like the real thing.

frank1880
12-13-2014, 09:39 AM
This is where I'm at right now. I have no idea why the surface looks like molten lava.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7y3d9wc8jr6r6st/screen_glasses.rar?dl=0

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frank1880
12-13-2014, 11:09 AM
Edit: Updated source files.


It's quite simple as Spherical's said, make that screen surface brighter (Surface Editor-Luminosity), and have a sheet of glass over it, build it much like the real thing and it should look much like the real thing.

Yeah, that sounds great. How am I doing so far though?

djwaterman
12-13-2014, 12:39 PM
The lava effect was caustics, I turned it off as it's really not going to add anything to this type of object render apart from problems. Then there were a number of other things. Your glass surface was luminous but your screen wasn't.

I turned off and altered a number of things on the glass settings, Luminous, Translucency and surface thickness and stuff. Also turned all the shadow casting options off for that object. I can't remember everything but you can compare the scene with yours. I also targeted the camera to the object so if you move the camera the object remains in the center, that was just something I did that means nothing. Also moved the glass really close to the screen as they were quite at a distance.


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JoePoe
12-13-2014, 01:59 PM
Something for the glass to reflect would help.

frank1880
12-13-2014, 02:06 PM
@djwaterman thank you so much - it really needed that!

@JoePoe any suggestions?

Current render:

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Source image:

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Skonk
12-13-2014, 03:03 PM
Made this a few years back and I just made it like the phone was made; as in an LCD panel (basically just a high luminosity polygon with a screenshot applied) and a glass panel over the top of it (reflective and semi-transparent).

Got a HDR image as a background for something to reflect.

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JoePoe
12-13-2014, 03:42 PM
Nice phone Skonk!

Yeah, you can reflect an image mapped to the scene environment (Textured Environment or Image World in Backdrop options) or mapped to the surface environment.
Or you can simply reflect other geometry in the scene.

Or both :hey:.

frank1880
12-14-2014, 02:32 AM
@Skonk awesome work! I believe our surfaces are set up the same way though.

I also followed http://www.hyperfocaldesign.com/hdri-tutorials/hdri-in-lightwave-tutorial and set up an "Inverted 3D Sphere" with a free HDRI from http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html, however it still doesn't look right.

Let me know, thanks!

DJ W Screen glass2.rar (https://www.dropbox.com/s/25wpbgazyp7xhit/DJ%20W%20Screen%20glass2.rar?dl=0)

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frank1880
12-14-2014, 03:14 AM
Added the HDRI via Image World instead and enabled radiosity:

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DJ W Screen glass3.rar (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7kme3pipxrpnzun/DJ%20W%20Screen%20glass3.rar?dl=0)

Starting to feel a little bit less Photoshop-ish. Are there any ways we can make it look even better though?

Many thanks!

djwaterman
12-14-2014, 03:19 AM
Actually, are you just trying to render out this image of a screen ( no phone or anything) and have it look like it's under glass? Is that the goal?

frank1880
12-14-2014, 03:44 AM
Yes, that's exactly right!

XswampyX
12-14-2014, 04:46 AM
The scene is in a bit of a mess?

I know it's a work in progress, but you have spent time putting things in (reflection stuff) and then even more time masking them out?

Here's my stab at it...

Edit with bloom added...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126063&d=1418558554

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frank1880
12-14-2014, 05:53 AM
@XswampyX That is just remarkable! Nicely done!

XswampyX
12-14-2014, 06:35 AM
Thanks Frank.

The scene I posted doesn't have the bloom post effect put in, just click on it and leave it at the defaults.
I had to change your phone screen image, it's just too plain to make the render look any good.

frank1880
12-14-2014, 06:38 AM
@XswampyX looks quite much like a touch screen now I reckon, all matte and soft and stuff. Thank you, thank you everyone!

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frank1880
12-14-2014, 06:54 AM
The scene I posted doesn't have the bloom post effect put in, just click on it and leave it at the defaults.

Sorry, leave it at the defaults? You wrote edit with bloom added so I figured it was included.

XswampyX
12-14-2014, 07:14 AM
My bad.

Click windows -> image processing -> add image filter -> bloom (leave at defaults for a start)

Render scene.

caustics
12-14-2014, 07:16 AM
Perfect in any way.

But something suggests it wouldn't meet the goal to be a 'realistic iphone screen' ;-)

Regards.

frank1880
12-14-2014, 08:05 AM
Really cool @XswampyX, thanks again!

Cheers @caustics!

djwaterman
12-14-2014, 04:45 PM
If you were just needing the image of the screen graphics only with the appearance of it being under glass and luminous, couldn't it have been achieved quicker as 2D in Photoshop or another painter program? Why did you want to do it in 3D?

frank1880
12-14-2014, 09:40 PM
Just for that little extra I guess :)

frank1880
12-21-2014, 09:17 AM
Some follow-up questions here:

1. Is there a way to input screenshots of different sizes and have each come out the same size it went in? This way one wouldn't have to resize everything every time one wanted a screenshot in a different resolution.

2. I still don't feel we're quite at Martin Hajek's level yet. Can anybody guess what ingredients are missing?

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3. Would anyone with OctaneRender be able to do a quick test render? Curious whether it's worth buying or not.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y63a092fvusq3qa/Phone_Reflect_LW_XSX_2.rar?dl=0

4. How'd one go about getting rid of those dark shades near the edges?

Many thanks!

djwaterman
12-21-2014, 10:11 AM
But your not trying to do that sort of render, you're just doing 2D screen graphics with perhaps a little reflective effect correct? You're not putting these into 3D phone models and rendering shots of phones, just the screen graphic. Or have I misunderstood the project?

frank1880
12-21-2014, 12:40 PM
No, you understand correctly.

frank1880
01-04-2015, 07:50 AM
So, can anyone think of ways to make this look even more realistic?

Thanks!

Laticis
01-05-2015, 01:56 AM
This was the image you supplied applied to a flat plane rendered with Octane / Octane Material set up ( used DAZ Studio for this one though other PC busy )
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frank1880
01-05-2015, 03:31 AM
Something about that looks really good @Laticis, thanks so much for giving it a go.

Does it look equally good if the plane is centered?

Also I noticed your last image is more luminious. The guys here advised me earlier to "recreate what's going on in real life" so I'm guessing the screenshot plane should be made semi-transparent and have a light source behind it (ie. to simulate the light modulating properties of liquid crystals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-crystal_display)). Is that what you did here? If not, would it be a good idea?

Cheers!

Laticis
01-05-2015, 07:36 PM
Something about that looks really good @Laticis, thanks so much for giving it a go.

Does it look equally good if the plane is centered?

Also I noticed your last image is more luminious. The guys here advised me earlier to "recreate what's going on in real life" so I'm guessing the screenshot plane should be made semi-transparent and have a light source behind it (ie. to simulate the light modulating properties of liquid crystals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-crystal_display)). Is that what you did here? If not, would it be a good idea?

Cheers!

Hi Frank,

No probs at all. It could be made too look the same ans render flat/centred but that would be easier to do in Photoshop. (kind of)

For the illuminated version the plane was turned into an emitter and I used the image to drive that source. It's an Octane Mixed Material ( Glossy / Diffuse )

frank1880
01-06-2015, 04:12 AM
Very cool. Would it be possible for you to re-render the illuminated version flat/centered?

Would prefer not to use Photoshop. Need to stand out. There are so many "devil in the details" in your Octane render and I'm absolutely loving it.

Also would you be able to render some 4-5 screenshots for me for a small fee?

Laticis
01-06-2015, 08:37 AM
It doesn't quite have that same look front on 126427

MG artist
01-06-2015, 01:17 PM
You don't even need the help of octane for something that simple. This is done with Lightwave only. I added a pixel grid, dust and fingerprints. You could also add bloom in photoshop.
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frank1880
01-06-2015, 01:19 PM
Not quite, but still an improvement, no doubt. Props on the natural reflection as well.

frank1880
01-06-2015, 01:27 PM
Oh hey MG artist, didn't see your post there. Pretty cool. You actually added fingerprints?! :)

I'm thinking something like Laticis' though. Combined with a slight increase in illumination from the screenshot plane plus maybe a more LCD-like screen -- I'm not sure what components LCD screens are made of but I'm hoping they can be recreated in LW at nano level.

MG artist
01-06-2015, 01:31 PM
So, you would like the screen on a smartphone or a clean version of it, open the scene I posted and have a play with it.

frank1880
01-06-2015, 01:45 PM
I surely will MG artist -- I can't thank you enough!

MG artist
01-06-2015, 01:52 PM
You're welcome :)

Laticis
01-06-2015, 02:28 PM
A new result, I actually placed a clear thick glass cover on top.
Render:126442
Post worked:126444

frank1880
01-07-2015, 05:23 PM
That is again some very remarkable work Laticis. Few questions:

1. Is it possible to get a more matte feel to the glass? (as opposed to shiny)
2. Do we really need those thick diagonal lines?
3. Did you use a HDRI to create those reflections in the glass?
4. Did you use DAZ + Octane for these renders as well?

I think we're pretty close to having everyone at https://play.google.com/store/apps envy our screenshots :)

spherical
01-07-2015, 07:28 PM
1. Is it possible to get a more matte feel to the glass? (as opposed to shiny)

Then it won't look like an iPhone screen.


2. Do we really need those thick diagonal lines?

Perhaps not, but they give the decided impression that the surface is reflective to some degree; just like glass is supposed to be. That is why Apple has their depictions of their products showing them. I'd wager that they've tested this to the nth degree before releasing product literature.

Laticis
01-07-2015, 09:39 PM
Hey Frank

1. Is it possible to get a more matte feel to the glass? (as opposed to shiny) - As Spherical mentions. There would almost be no point doing it 3D ( in the real world those phones are very reflective )
2. Do we really need those thick diagonal lines? - I only added those in post-worked scenario as a proof of concept - in the need it would be a matter of personal choice.
3. Did you use a HDRI to create those reflections in the glass? - Yes and No - Partial reflection came from the use of one of Octane's in built HDRI and the other came from a simple plane emitter positioned for some lighting but mainly the reflection.
4. Did you use DAZ + Octane for these renders as well? Yes I did, was just easier at the time.

Cheers Ady

frank1880
01-08-2015, 05:12 PM
1. You guys are right. However there is some sort of vague smoothness to these screens perhaps best illustrated at:

http://www.martinhajek.com/nokia-n1-vs-ipad-mini-3/

which is not present in our renderings.

I also like the way he made his screens sort of "illuminated from the inside" for the lack of better words.

2. Cool, understood.

3. Nice. I really need to get my hands on Octane.

4. So, any chance you could help me render my screenshots for a small fee? Ie. I set everything up in LW (roughly 5 screenshots) and then pass them over to you?

Laticis
01-08-2015, 07:32 PM
1. wow that certainly is an interesting finish an could be achieved with some work, my Iphone and Sony Phone / Tablet certainly don't have a finished like that. I do like the look of it.

2. Cool :)

3. or at least try out the demo - will need to make sure you have a NVidia GPU - I had Octane standalone for ages but couldn't get into it until the plugins started coming out.

4. Certainly, can help - lighting set up should be relatively easy within reason - material setup will be the key - once all that is taken care of rendering will be done in minutes.

djwaterman
01-08-2015, 07:34 PM
The 3D renderings you use as examples are a completely different type of render to the ones you have stated you want, ie, flat front on images of screens isolated from the phone itself. It's totally pointless and a complete waste of time doing it in 3D when you can achieve exactly the look you want in Pshop or some other paint program. I'm not even sure why you'd want screen reflection or glow given that presumably you're just showing off the screen designs anyway, but if you do then just do it in 2D and fake a cool looking reflection on another layer, and duplicate the screen graphics to another layer, apply a touch of blur and use some sort of additive mode.

Your screens will never look illuminated from the inside if all you see is the screen, face on and isolated, something only looks glowing in relation to other things that aren't glowing. A 2D image uses visual cues to create an illusion of reality, If I show a picture of a lit candle flame, it looks hot, If I color pick the brightest pixel from the flame and fill a empty page with that color, it just looks like a color, neither hot or cold. The images you show are 3D renderings set in environments with perspective and depth of field, many visual cues to fool us into thinking the screens look glowy, only because we have the rest of the image to relate it to and form that judgment, but they are just a bunch of pixels on a 2D plane.

Laticis
01-08-2015, 07:42 PM
Very valid points djwaterman.

The added advantage to a Photoshop set up would would be with correct layering you would only need to add your base images and then save out the image, no re-rendering required.
T

frank1880
01-09-2015, 05:13 AM
@djwaterman I understand your skepticism, but I refuse to believe that a 3D rendering can't add some sort of value to this. Even if I were to use Photoshop, I'd probably still want to do the reflection layer in LightWave. Plus, all my screenshots are of different sizes, and they should all have different reflections to make them unique.

I want to stand out from the rest of the herd who do use Photoshop for this kind of thing.

@Laticis sounds great, I really appreciate it. Please hold while I set up my scene.

frank1880
01-09-2015, 05:23 AM
@Laticis since my screenshots are of different sizes needing their own unique reflection, should I make one scene per screenshot or is it possible to reuse a single scene? The latter would be really ideal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_repeat_yourself), but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

I'm thinking one large plane with the screenshots projected in the center via UV. The entire plane is rendered, and the excess whitespace is cropped away in Photoshop afterwards. Does that sound doable?

Laticis
01-09-2015, 08:28 AM
@Laticis since my screenshots are of different sizes needing their own unique reflection, should I make one scene per screenshot or is it possible to reuse a single scene? The latter would be really ideal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_repeat_yourself), but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

I'm thinking one large plane with the screenshots projected in the center via UV. The entire plane is rendered, and the excess whitespace is cropped away in Photoshop afterwards. Does that sound doable?

Hi Frank,

To reuse a single scene would be the much better option, that way I only need to set the materials up once ( I hope ) and then change the image and lighting source/ hdri map or at least rotate it.
I wont really know until you send me your file. I quickly modeled my previous work, used a flat plane for the display and built a thick glass panel for the front and a base for the back.

A simple pane isn't going to cut I think. I can always render with alpha channels to but I guess that not required.

If your only worried about end result images, you might as well just send me the screen face designs, similar to what you did with the last one, a small brief and I will see what I can do that way. ( similar to the recent test )

frank1880
01-09-2015, 10:01 AM
@Laticis bless you man! I'm currently at the airport but I'll shoot you a text as soon as I get back.

Laticis
01-09-2015, 10:07 AM
@Laticis bless you man! I'm currently at the airport but I'll shoot you a text as soon as I get back.

Too easy mate :) - just make sure the brief is simple and clear and we should be right ;)

You have already supplied reference to the mat screen required, that will be an interesting exercise and I also know you want different reflections per image. ( HDR Light Studio should come in handy for this )
but if you could place this in the brief it would be much appreciated.

frank1880
01-11-2015, 10:01 AM
Sent you a PM

Laticis
01-11-2015, 11:17 PM
Sent you a PM

Thanks