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fazi69
12-10-2014, 07:21 AM
Is there any thing like this ? What I mean is a node that can generate fluid like or fire like simple effects on 2d surfaces. It will be quick and sufficient in many situations. Let`s imagine that we have simple quad that have applied simulated fire node, something like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SzpMBOp1mE
It is so simple that I remember this from Amiga demoscene. Let us have control on colors, speed and some turbulation.
Next will be node for surface disturbance where effector null will be used. Imagine bucket full of fluid where you drop other object
and you have something like this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoj0crPbf9o
around the edges or around predefined radius. We can even use this for mixing two different materials on the surface that will look like
mixing of two kind of fluid.
Many of this turbulence like effects we can use to simulate seashores, foam, wakes or sand.

Quick example. We have force shield, sphere shape. Transparent with some blueish cloud-like surface. Now we move few nulls thru this
ball that will simulate bullets and on the surface where null meet sphere there will be 2d turbulence generated like in the first video.
Simple "fire" effect with turbulent edges.
I can imagine that we can do something similar right now but it will not be calculated in any way or form but just bunch of surface operations and effector. I did that on lightwave 5.6 :-) I know.

Not everything is need to be 3d. It will be much faster, almost realtime.
Sure, 3d fluid simulation is nice but rendering time and recalculation after every change is killing our productivity.

Too bad I`m not a coder. As always I have too much ideas for someone who can code only a hello world script.
Is there any demoscene coder between us?

prometheus
12-10-2014, 01:36 PM
turbulenceFD is available in 2d for after effects...
https://www.jawset.com/shop/ae/single/

otherwise, after effects own noise stuff allows for some nice fake fire or solar flare style, reference to video copilot solar flares.

but in lightwave, there are just some fractals to use and fake similar stuff, but itīs just fractal animated fakes and no real fluid behavior based on physical true equations like turbulenceFD does.

maya and houdini has 2d options, you could simply just lower the z resolution in turbulenceFD to allow for faster renders and calculations, if you start of with 3d containers, I wish turbulenceFD had a switch to directly turn on a "2D" mode though.

I have no clue to what you refer too..when you say you did in in lw 5.6? can you describe that more or showcase something? you must have faked it seriously since there were hardly any fluids available at that time:)

hereīs some good solar flares ...all in after effects without plugins...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0rdzVROeA

fazi69
12-10-2014, 02:01 PM
In LW5.6 I fake it till I make it all the time :-) Sure. I just used effector. It not need to be a fluid simulation. And better not be, If I want render whole night I can do that right now.
Good example is thing called Particle Magic or Particle Illusion. It is simple OpenGL particle generator and if our HyperVoxels in sprite mode can do such cool smoke I will be more than happy.
What I want is quicker FX related stuff not necessery realistic.

You now what ? Acctually I do not know what I want anymore :-DDDD
I refused to do small project where I needed to make scene with building on fire. I just can`t do that without frame that will take 4 hours to render and look like crap.
This bothers me because I never refused anything in my 15 year long LW3d history. There is more and more things that clients see and want that I can`t do i LW3d quick and cheap like in the past 15 years. Is it me ?

Volumetrics, fogs, flares, particles, voxels .... everything is so old in LW. Yes, we can go around and use this or that but it is not "Lightwave way" ;-) It looks like there is less and less space for "one man orchestras" in this bussines.
---
You know that You 3d app is old when game engine render something in real time better than You 1000$ app and 3000$ rig after a full night rendering :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foyhyBw1eic

prometheus
12-10-2014, 02:35 PM
In LW5.6 I fake it till I make it all the time :-) Sure. I just used effector. It not need to be a fluid simulation. And better not be, If I want render whole night I can do that right now.
Good example is thing called Particle Magic or Particle Illusion. It is simple OpenGL particle generator and if our HyperVoxels in sprite mode can do such cool smoke I will be more than happy.
What I want is quicker FX related stuff not necessery realistic.

You now what ? Acctually I do not know what I want anymore :-DDDD
I refused to do small project where I needed to make scene with building on fire. I just can`t do that without frame that will take 4 hours to render and look like crap.
This bothers me because I never refused anything in my 15 year long LW3d history. There is more and more things that clients see and want that I can`t do i LW3d quick and cheap like in the past 15 years. Is it me ?

Volumetrics, fogs, flares, particles, voxels .... everything is so old in LW. Yes, we can go around and use this or that but it is not "Lightwave way" ;-) It looks like there is less and less space for "one man orchestras" in this bussines.
---
You know that You 3d app is old when game engine render something in real time better than You 1000$ app and 3000$ rig after a full night rendering :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foyhyBw1eic

You could have tried blender out for free fluid fire and smoke, not sure how rendertimes would be, though mentioning 4 hours per frame? that sounds heavy, my experience with turbulenceFD demos ..and rendertimes and simulation for doing a building on fire seemed decent..I donīt believe blender is that much slower to work out something decent, not sure though.


I just reacted to you mentioning fluid simulation node, and they you talk about ways to do it that really has nothing to do with fluids..fluids as we generally think about true CFD...wether it will be 2d or 3d.
fake it til you make it is a completly different matter.

yeah particle illusion is nice...a nice sprite based particle simulator with easy control.

with the latest turbulenceFD version you have interactive scrubbing which make it much faster to see the simulation, there is a good clip somewhere showcasing that, but...for fast simulations, if you donīt have a decent card with nvidia cudar cores, and you are using cpu instead of gpu, then I wouldnīt bother using turbulenceFD, itīs such a difference.

tischbein3
12-10-2014, 10:32 PM
@fazi69: Are you aware of this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl9j_248-Q

fazi69
12-11-2014, 05:39 AM
@fazi69: Are you aware of this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sl9j_248-Q

Sure. I experimented with HV whole day. I tried render some single null voxel and place it on sprite. I wanted to emulate
things that we see in games where all FX are basically sprites but in LW3d there is few features missing in that area.
Right now I abandoned idea of easy fire. All my computers, even laptop, are now in render mode so I can`t even play with
scene You remained me but I will. I need to look deeper into sprite possibilities, it is only fast way I can imagine.
If I had some game sprites, some UnrealEngine materials..... must look for that.

prometheus
12-11-2014, 07:34 AM
Sure. I experimented with HV whole day. I tried render some single null voxel and place it on sprite. I wanted to emulate
things that we see in games where all FX are basically sprites but in LW3d there is few features missing in that area.
Right now I abandoned idea of easy fire. All my computers, even laptop, are now in render mode so I can`t even play with
scene You remained me but I will. I need to look deeper into sprite possibilities, it is only fast way I can imagine.
If I had some game sprites, some UnrealEngine materials..... must look for that.


What features in lightwave do you miss compare to game fx?

that sample was very slow to render I think, and probably because the use of voxels in volumetric mode.
I got some samples with hv fire with sprites on my vimeo page, I canīt reach vimeo currently and can therefor not direct link to the exact clips....something wrong with acessing it from here today, seems somethings screwed up in sweden after a cyber attack on some of our larger isp provider, so that could be the issue.

donīt expect a single null work out decently for fire, for a big short blast explosion burst you can use that..but fire I donīt think will look so good, you can also render it out to png frames, and re-use with sprite clip mapping so you can actually see it in real time in opengl.

Then again, the balrog in Lotr used basic principles with real fire photage mapped on to sprites, so that should be doable too..but I think itīs best to map to particles.
thereīs also sprite gen to use with lighwave ..check up on that.

Michael

inakito
12-11-2014, 01:03 PM
You can map render fluid simulation video over planes and you can also use hypervoxels sprites to generate fire. Both techniques are 2d.

prometheus
12-12-2014, 04:09 AM
You can map render fluid simulation video over planes and you can also use hypervoxels sprites to generate fire. Both techniques are 2d.


I would say only flat planes are 2d techniques, or flat fluid simulations in a container in 2d mode, that is only resolution dimensions on two axis, sprites on particle emitters is somewhat a hybrid or just as well to considered 3d...
I couldnīt reach my vimeo page before, but now I can...heres a sample with sprites only on particles, two emitters with some different settings...very old stuff....

2d containers often simulate in Real time quite fast and can work for some cases if you donīt need that thick smoke depth, maya fluids..houdini fluids has a built in option to check the container to be 2d, where you manually just
have to set that in turbulenceFD, at least the last time I checked.



http://vimeo.com/3438515