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View Full Version : LightWave 2015 - upgrade ?



erikals
12-04-2014, 08:44 AM
yep, another poll... :°

it's easier to know what people think this way, cause you only get 1 vote

roboman
12-04-2014, 08:52 AM
probably

Lewis
12-04-2014, 08:57 AM
already did.

3dworks
12-04-2014, 09:01 AM
upgraded already and very happy with the improvements!

gerry_g
12-04-2014, 09:10 AM
the 33% who say not enough improvements to modeller I bet haven't tried it, I would have upgraded for in viewport deselection alone, that has taken a lot of tedium out of modelling for me, or persistent fall off widgets that allow you to reopen a tool and carry on tweaking where you left off, ok so there are no really big ticket changes boo-hoo but the ones that are there are worth their weight in gold.

hrgiger
12-04-2014, 09:19 AM
Its fairly light featurewise but I'm glad to see they have finally added the constraints to Bullet, I use the subpatch wire renders a lot and will want to try out the new Genoma version 2. I would have liked to have heard more about architectural changes and speed improvements to geometry handling as LightWave Modeler is quite poor with it.

CaptainMarlowe
12-04-2014, 09:19 AM
Not yet, but just be cause I need to gather the cash, but I will.

Lewis
12-04-2014, 09:20 AM
the 33% who say not enough improvements to modeller I bet haven't tried it,

I tried it (and use it heavily every day at work and freelance) and i also think there is very little in modeler. They fixed few tools (mainly stuf fi reported what' snto workign on multipel layers now it is) and few bugs but no significant change or feature is made there (sure there is few workflow boosters liek morph maps stuff and dbl click to deselect) but so for somene who model primarely it's not worth upgrade so i full yunderstand those who think same. BUT layout upgrades are pretty nice and tema obviously wokred hard for months to bring that so i upgraded regardless of lack of modleign stuff to support them and hope next time they are realyl serious about modeling in LW :).

lino.grandi
12-04-2014, 09:36 AM
I'm not getting the difference between "yes, of course" and "yes, the upgrade is woth it".

Doesn't "yes, of course" imply that "the upgrade is worth it" already?

raw-m
12-04-2014, 09:37 AM
In, very happy with it in the whole, bit buggy in parts.

Lewis
12-04-2014, 09:42 AM
I'm not getting the difference between "yes, of course" and "yes, the upgrade is woth it".

Doesn't "yes, of course" imply that "the upgrade is worth it" already?

Not necessarily :). Some people upgrade to support you guys regardless of what they think is worth, so yeah it's OK choice in poll.

raw-m
12-04-2014, 09:44 AM
Don't worry, keeping the faith :D

lino.grandi
12-04-2014, 09:48 AM
Not necessarily :). Some people upgrade to support you guys regardless of what they think is worth, so yeah it's OK choice in poll.

So there should be something like "Not worth it, but I upgrade".

As a user happy to upgrade because I like what I see in LW2015 , I would choose the first.

kopperdrake
12-04-2014, 10:23 AM
Upgraded two licenses :)

MAUROCOR
12-04-2014, 10:30 AM
Yes, of course! I already did it! AND I think the upgrade is worth it!;)

dsol
12-04-2014, 10:51 AM
I haven't upgraded yet, but that's just because I bought the upgrade to Mocha 4 during the black friday sales. LW2015 is on my list though

erikals
12-04-2014, 11:10 AM
I'm not getting the difference between "yes, of course" and "yes, the upgrade is worth it".

Doesn't "yes, of course" imply that "the upgrade is worth it" already?

yes, the upgrade is worth it
should have been
yes, could be better, but the upgrade is worth it

mikala
12-04-2014, 11:18 AM
Nope. 2 Licenses to remain where they are at.

art
12-04-2014, 11:21 AM
We have 5 options for "no" and only 2 for "yes".
I could use one of the following
- The upgrade may or may not be worth it, but I'll upgrade anyway just to keep up to date (Lino said the more or less the same thing above)
- The upgrade may or may not be worth it, but I'll upgrade to keep my special hardcore pricing
- Not right away, but I'll upgrade to 2015 eventually

GandB
12-04-2014, 11:22 AM
Not going to upgrade (still on 9.6), as I don't have any money to toss towards anything non-bill related at this time. If I was to base my decision (assuming the cash was there, and that I was on version 11) on the improvements however, I wouldn't upgrade based on the lack of anything significant (working tweaks are nice, but not enough) in modeler. I do, however, appreciate the drop in upgrade pricing. Keep moving forward. ;)

jeric_synergy
12-04-2014, 11:38 AM
Needed a "Yes, but I'll wait 'til the bugs are ironed out".

For certain values of "ironed out"- there's always going to be SOME bugs.

--Here's a fantasy: LW5.6 released as OpenSource software-- let's see if it could EVER get all the bugs stamped out.

Anyway, I'm waiting til everybody gets a handle on the current problems.

+++++++++++
"Persistent falloff widgets" ??? AFAIK, it's always been the case that Falloff persists between tool invocations-- a fact that's bit me many a time.

+++++++++++
"We have 5 options for "no" and only 2 for "yes"."

There's probably a name for that biasing in a poll.

Greenlaw
12-04-2014, 11:41 AM
I upgraded our two Little Green Dog licenses last week, and the studio where I work now will probably be on board soon.

G.

jasonwestmas
12-04-2014, 11:44 AM
I'll wait for more videos on this upgrade, then I'll buy.

Snosrap
12-04-2014, 11:49 AM
Already upgraded 3 licenses here at work and will most likely upgrade my personal license after the holidays. Is it worth it? Kinda - kinda not. The time it took to go from 11 to 2015 is evidence of the crappy infrastructure LW is based on. Three years to go from that to this - talk about slow development! I wouldn't complain a bit if there were some evidence of foundational improvments. That being said, why do I like the software so much? I must be nuts. :) Oh! - it just came to me. Speed of creation!

Spinland
12-04-2014, 12:10 PM
Jumped on it as soon as I got the notification, and will do so for future upgrades so long as I have the money. I believe in voting with my dollars for technology I support and LW nears the top of my list. I don't need to be wooed by a big laundry list of new features; incremental progress works for me. I know all will come in due course so long as Newtek continues their current path.

I intend to be part of that journey.

3djock
12-04-2014, 12:26 PM
I will upgrade maybe after the holidays or when the bed bugs are out of it. Would like to see modeler improved as well as the particle emitter which is way behind everybody else, just my wish list..

Nicolas Jordan
12-04-2014, 12:34 PM
I downloaded the trial version and have been trying out some of the new features but I haven't decided yet if I plan on upgrading. I have always upgraded Lightwave since starting with version 6.0 only skipping out on the 7 series. I currently use both Lightwave and Modo but I'm thinking about finally sticking with upgrading just one of them regularly or maybe even alternating upgrading versions between them. It might really depend on the kind of projects I end up snagging over the next while. I think there should be a category for undecided fence sitters like me.

Skonk
12-04-2014, 12:39 PM
I have about 25 educational licenses on my account, which are likely not going to be upgraded ever due to us now being able to freely use Maya (as a college, and Maya also being free to our students too).

But I still love LW so upgraded one of the accounts out of my own pocket (was only 60 quid so why not).

Not really an option on the poll that fits my scenario :)

Kuzey
12-04-2014, 12:41 PM
I'll wait to see if some of that "under the hood modeler work" makes it way to the surface..in new tools and/or improvements.

jwiede
12-04-2014, 12:50 PM
Nope, too light for the price and much too buggy for being so light (and yes, I did try it).

fazi69
12-04-2014, 01:05 PM
Upgraded two licenses :)

And still You have only one vote in polls. It is not fair :-D

robpowers3d
12-04-2014, 01:29 PM
why do I like the software so much? Oh! - it just came to me. Speed of creation!

I liked that part so much I shared it with our internal marketing team :)

kosmodave
12-04-2014, 01:36 PM
Not convinced they will ever really work on modeller so definitely not upgrading, and anyway had enough bugs/workarounds in LW10 and not interested in having to cope with more.

Dave.

RudySchneider
12-04-2014, 02:02 PM
Yep, already did. And I'm just a hobbyist who only dabbles occasionally!

robpowers3d
12-04-2014, 02:04 PM
Not convinced they will ever really work on modeller so definitely not upgrading, and anyway had enough bugs/workarounds in LW10 and not interested in having to cope with more.

Dave.
Hi Dave,
I'm sorry that you feel that way but that is not accurate. We have been working on modeler on two different levels since I joined the company. One level is on current incremental updates like the new fracture tool in the 10.x cycle or the interactive sync mesh tools in the 11.x cycle and the other level is at a deeper architectural level to allow more significant development in future versions. I assure you that both are real and solidly our intent.

Spinland
12-04-2014, 02:05 PM
Yep, already did. And I'm just a hobbyist who only dabbles occasionally!


Heh. See, not only am a NewTek fanboy wearing Pollyanna glasses, I make my living doing this stuff and the purchase price is a tax write-off. I allocate a part of my invoice payments to a software budget, and voila.

lwanmtr
12-04-2014, 02:32 PM
I will, when I get the cash. There's enough in Layout to warrant it, I think and the new Genoma 2 is nice. Quite a few bugs still (specially the rendering bug I reported), but at least I'll be able to get the fixed version when released.

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 03:33 PM
Hi Dave,
I'm sorry that you feel that way but that is not accurate. We have been working on modeler on two different levels since I joined the company. One level is on current incremental updates like the new fracture tool in the 10.x cycle or the interactive sync mesh tools in the 11.x cycle and the other level is at a deeper architectural level to allow more significant development in future versions. I assure you that both are real and solidly our intent.
And THIS... is the kind of communication that the LW userbase NEEDS on a regular basis. If you provided us with nuggets like this every week, there would be MUCH less disappointment and apprehension concerning future development. And... you didn't even have to reveal any huge secret plan or development schedule. :)

robpowers3d
12-04-2014, 04:04 PM
And THIS... is the kind of communication that the LW userbase NEEDS on a regular basis. If you provided us with nuggets like this every week, there would be MUCH less disappointment and apprehension concerning future development. And... you didn't even have to reveal any huge secret plan or development schedule. :)

We are looking at ways to help with this.

SteveH
12-04-2014, 04:20 PM
All it takes Rob is to hit the quick reply button - easy peezy ....sorry - I couldn't resist.

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 04:29 PM
We are looking at ways to help with this.

This is good to hear.

If you can start a regular schedule of communication with the users, you WILL go a long way to eliminating the statement "the LW3DG has gone silent again" and help us to feel that we are being included as opposed to "feeling" ignored. I, personally, would much prefer to NOT see complaint threads of "why isn't LW integrated yet" or "how come LW3DG ignores us" or "where are all the videos about this new release?" :)

I am sincerely encouraged by your responses regarding development, but the typical userbase memory is short AND we need to be reminded again and again. One specific thread with regular announcements would be most welcome. I hope we see. it!

And thanks for responding!

peterpaw
12-04-2014, 04:30 PM
I voted "no, still waiting for integration", but this is not the whole truth.
Less about money, more about the rules - I really don't know nothing about direction, where the Lightwave goes...
Nothing about key things for me: future architecture and integration.
How deep will be the nodal workflow... Non-destructive modelling through modifier stack or nodes... or destructive? And so on...
Today, tools are less important for me, even physically based uber node material with almost all parameters on board (Arnold, VRay, Maxwell...) (this one is more about standarization and unification which LW badly needs in many parts)

best regards,
Peter

lardbros
12-04-2014, 04:48 PM
We are looking at ways to help with this.

Even this little snippet, doesn't say what, or point at anything... But it's great for us to hear! :) I'm glad that this weakness could potentially be addressed! Go Newtek! :)

Oh... And I've already upgraded my personal license, but my work one will have to wait.

hrgiger
12-04-2014, 05:58 PM
If you can start a regular schedule of communication with the users, you WILL go a long way to eliminating the statement "the LW3DG has gone silent again" and help us to feel that we are being included as opposed to "feeling" ignored. I, personally, would much prefer to NOT see complaint threads of "why isn't LW integrated yet" or "how come LW3DG ignores us" or "where are all the videos about this new release?" :)



I don't think it has to be a regular stream of information like they have to stick to a schedule or anything, as they can't always know how busy or committed they are to other things at any given time. It also doesn't have to be them even revealing anything about future developments. It just has to be some form of dialogue that seeks to engage users and generate some interest/excitement about the future of LightWave.

robpowers3d
12-04-2014, 06:39 PM
I don't think it has to be a regular stream of information like they have to stick to a schedule or anything, as they can't always know how busy or committed they are to other things at any given time. It also doesn't have to be them even revealing anything about future developments. It just has to be some form of dialogue that seeks to engage users and generate some interest/excitement about the future of LightWave.

Point taken. We are looking into the best way to do this. We are discussing a blog type implementation and some other options....and it certainly would be patterned on a natural flow of information that makes sense not some regularly scheduled forced communication regardless of having a point.

After all, I'm sure some of you would likely not care what I think about things like the latest Star Wars Trailer, which computer tablet I use or other unrelated banter. When I've heard some technology guru with little or no actual experience creating anything with their software do this type of stuff it comes off as someone being self-indulgent and I have often thought to myself "What does this actually have to do with your software?" I've been criticized by some for sharing some of my experiences on past projects but for sure I was discussing a project on which I used LightWave heavily and I felt like that was directly relevant to the conversation.

That other type of off topic conversation seems overall to be fairly pointless in the effort to communicate the progress and exciting direction that we are moving LightWave in. The important thing is that we really do have interesting things going on and much thought and planning has been put into LightWave and the direction of the software. We simply need to determine the best way to best communicate this beyond the software releases themselves which simply can't reveal volumes about the extended future direction.

But certainly our major statement is in fact each release of our software which reveals a new chapter in the direction in which we are going.

erikals
12-04-2014, 06:44 PM
as far as how much interaction, the votes in this poll might help make a guideline
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144530-LWG-interaction-on-the-forums

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 06:52 PM
I don't think it has to be a regular stream of information like they have to stick to a schedule or anything, as they can't always know how busy or committed they are to other things at any given time. It also doesn't have to be them even revealing anything about future developments. It just has to be some form of dialogue that seeks to engage users and generate some interest/excitement about the future of LightWave.

I disagree - with the regular schedule aspect.

It SHOULD be on a regular schedule. One where EVERYONE knows that on "Monday" (or Friday or...) that when they come into the forum they immediately check the "Update Thread" to see what Rob (or anyone from LW3DG) has to say about LW. This is constantly talking to the userbase and letting everyone know that WE are being informed. Imparting a short paragraph does not take a great deal of time and suggesting that being busy or other is not being honest. As we already have seen from other developers, they can communicate effectively with their customer without hurting their development. And Rob should be able to come up with a nice list of "items" that can be divulged on a regular schedule without giving away the store. Does it HAVE to be about future development? Not always, but tidbits like Rob just mentioned are VERY much appreciated and welcome. And what Rob said didn't really divulge anything except that they ARE working on Modeler and WILL be working on Modeler. This is just what many have wanted to hear - that Modeler isn't being abandoned and forgotten.

But it cannot be sporadic communication. Being on a regular schedule will help THEM - otherwise they risk "We're busy right now... wait till next week... or the week after... or the week after" until several months have gone by and again we hear nothing. It NEEDS to be on a regular schedule.

- - - Updated - - -



as far as how much interaction, the votes in this poll might help make a guideline
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144530-LWG-interaction-on-the-forums

The reality is... the VAST majority want more interaction. But I think that Rob and company now know this without any doubt. It just remains to be seen HOW and how well they will implement this interaction.

3D Kiwi
12-04-2014, 07:06 PM
So what direction are they taking Lightwave. It’s not clear to me. Are they going to merge layout and modeller? Are they going for the vfx or archvis markets? I think some clarification on that wouldn’t be too much to ask.

hrgiger
12-04-2014, 07:26 PM
I disagree - with the regular schedule aspect.

It SHOULD be on a regular schedule. One where EVERYONE knows that on "Monday" (or Friday or...) that when they come into the forum they immediately check the "Update Thread" to see what Rob (or anyone from LW3DG) has to say about LW.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I don't know if you remember much about CORE communications but that regular communication had its problems. The problem with regular updates is that people get to a point where they feel like that information is owed to them somehow and that if anything happens where Rob or someone else from LW3DG doesn't make a regular update on time, then they're accused of breaking promises and lying to the userbase. The fact is, LW3DG does not owe us any information and they're not breaking any promises by not giving us any. The only reason I suggest that they do communicate with users is that I think it generates interest in LightWave when there is some type of communication and that benefits both parties.

And the whole time I've been arguing for LW3DG to communicate with us, its never been about giving us road maps or details about what they're working on. What I would like to see is some type of dialogue. They could propose an idea in a thread and let users discuss it and perhaps ask additional questions or make additional comments. They could ask us something like "Would feature X be useful to you and how might you like it to work. They could give us a problem and let users come up with the best tool or feature that might help solve it. Of course its always nice when they do actually talk about things that they might be working on such as Rob's comments on future modeling work, but certainly you couldn't expect them to tell us something new in that weekly update about their plans for the future?

spherical
12-04-2014, 07:38 PM
I agree with Rob and HR's take on it. Frequent is fine with me; I don't need my ego stroked every Monday. IOW, the LW3DG communication pendulum is swinging back to more interaction; which is a very good thing. Don't screw it up and sour the whole experience by beating them over the head with disgruntled demands, just when things are getting started, OK? ENOUGH!

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 07:40 PM
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I don't know if you remember much about CORE communications but that regular communication had its problems. The problem with regular updates is that people get to a point where they feel like that information is owed to them somehow and that if anything happens where Rob or someone else from LW3DG doesn't make a regular update on time, then they're accused of breaking promises and lying to the userbase. The fact is, LW3DG does not owe us any information and they're not breaking any promises by not giving us any. The only reason I suggest that they do communicate with users is that I think it generates interest in LightWave when there is some type of communication and that benefits both parties.

I remember CORE vividly. The communication during CORE is completely different to what we're talking about here. Completely. Here we're talking about what Rob said would probably amount to a blog post. There is no "question and answer session" or anything where the users can ask him/them anything directly. That can be done in another thread altogether and Rob et al can choose to elaborate or not. What happens if they don't "make the update on time"? That's the point of a schedule - and as I already said, they can have the points already listed as to what they intend to say. If you don't have a schedule, you can tend to put it off again and again. Think of it like a project - if you don't have a deadline, that "end of project" takes MUCH longer to get to. A good schedule eliminates that.


And the whole time I've been arguing for LW3DG to communicate with us, its never been about giving us road maps or details about what they're working on. What I would like to see is some type of dialogue. They could propose an idea in a thread and let users discuss it and perhaps ask additional questions or make additional comments. They could ask us something like "Would feature X be useful to you and how might you like it to work. They could give us a problem and let users come up with the best tool or feature that might help solve it. Of course its always nice when they do actually talk about things that they might be working on such as Rob's comments on future modeling work, but certainly you couldn't expect them to tell us something new in that weekly update about their plans for the future?

No one here ever said anything about roadmaps. I certainly never have. I know Rob hates that idea and I can't blame him considering the flak he and everyone got. But we already know the opposite hasn't worked either - and they KNOW that. What Rob said about Modeler is not divulging a roadmap - BUT it is saying something constructive to the userbase and need to be said. The problem is... it isn't in a thread where EVERYONE can easily find it - such as "The Update Thread" I suggested. I think what you suggested about "Would feature X be useful to you and how might you like it to work" is a great idea and one they should take to heart. Should they tell us something new EVERY week? Nope. But it should be often. Perhaps once every three weeks. And again, it does NOT have to "roadmap divulging."

While a blog is a nice idea and better than nothing, it is not something that users can count on to check in. I don't know, maybe it would work. I would prefer something more structured that we can EXPECT to hear something - even if it doesn't have a great deal of info in it.

- - - Updated - - -


I agree with Rob and HR's take on it. Frequent is fine with me; I don't need my ego stroked every Monday. IOW, the LW3DG communication pendulum is swinging back to more interaction; which is a very good thing. Don't screw it up and sour the whole experience by beating them over the head with disgruntled demands, just when things are getting started, OK? ENOUGH!

Sorry. I don't take my marching orders from anyone but myself. And really... I have as much right to say anything here as you do.

JamesCurtis
12-04-2014, 08:43 PM
I had upgraded two days after the announcement. I find it a bit buggy and crashy on my Vista 64 bit system. But I'm sure that a patch will fix the problems. I just hope it's sooner than later. In the meantime, I'll still be using 11.6.2 for production. I've found several of my client projects have problems in 2015. I'll still use the new version to try out new feeatures though.

spherical
12-04-2014, 08:50 PM
Sorry. I don't take my marching orders from anyone but myself. And really... I have as much right to say anything here as you do.

No kidding.... I know that. I just think it's a bit over the top by now. We get your point and position, as probably do everyone and their wives at LW3DG and NewTek as a whole, but then you just like to keep stirring the pot. Now, where's my killfile?

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 09:00 PM
No kidding.... I know that, I just think it's a bit over the top by now. We get your point and position, as probably do everyone and their wives at LW3DG, but then you just like to stir the pot. Where's my killfile?

Yeah I know... people like you think we should say what we want to say and then stop talking. Well... unless you decide that YOU want to keep talking.... then it's okay.

There are many people that end up NOT reading all of the posts in a given thread and don't get to "hear" another POV once something is said. Stating it several times is necessary so that everyone will see it. How many people do you think will read Robs post about Modeler? Certainly not everyone. If it was in one thread then anyone could point to it easily and let everyone know that "Rob said this here."

When you make your points... do you make it perfectly the first time? Do you say everything you want to say the first time in your first post or two? When someone states another POV do you let it slide? No, we already know the answer to that from the other thread - you keep posting too.

So please... don't pretend to be "taking the high road" now when you "believe" that LW3DG has heard enough. When more people think that some sort of scheduled communication is better, then LW3DG may realize that it is in their own best interest to do so. Letting is slide and saying nothing more is certainly not "my style." And they - like you - can choose to ignore me. And I'm quite sure that often they do. I would. ;)

And let's face it... all you have to do is agree with me and I'll end up posting less. :beerchug:

AbnRanger
12-04-2014, 09:44 PM
Point taken. We are looking into the best way to do this. We are discussing a blog type implementation and some other options....and it certainly would be patterned on a natural flow of information that makes sense not some regularly scheduled forced communication regardless of having a point.

After all, I'm sure some of you would likely not care what I think about things like the latest Star Wars Trailer, which computer tablet I use or other unrelated banter. When I've heard some technology guru with little or no actual experience creating anything with their software do this type of stuff it comes off as someone being self-indulgent and I have often thought to myself "What does this actually have to do with your software?" I've been criticized by some for sharing some of my experiences on past projects but for sure I was discussing a project on which I used LightWave heavily and I felt like that was directly relevant to the conversation.

That other type of off topic conversation seems overall to be fairly pointless in the effort to communicate the progress and exciting direction that we are moving LightWave in. The important thing is that we really do have interesting things going on and much thought and planning has been put into LightWave and the direction of the software. We simply need to determine the best way to best communicate this beyond the software releases themselves which simply can't reveal volumes about the extended future direction.

But certainly our major statement is in fact each release of our software which reveals a new chapter in the direction in which we are going.How about compiling a list of the most common misconceptions, in the industry, about LW, and do periodic segments spoofing the "MythBusters" series? Once a month to go along with your newsletters. Use it to rebut some of those notions, and you can show off some of the newer tools in the process.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPXmPljYg0c

lwanmtr
12-04-2014, 10:10 PM
How about compiling a list of the most common misconceptions, in the industry, about LW, and do periodic segments spoofing the "MythBusters" series? Once a month to go along with your newsletters. Use it to rebut some of those notions, and you can show off some of the newer tools in the process.



That would be an awesome idea. Could even recruit us LW users and send us a myth to debunk...would be a great platform for us and save the LW3DG from having to do it all.

Megalodon2.0
12-04-2014, 10:21 PM
How about compiling a list of the most common misconceptions, in the industry, about LW, and do periodic segments spoofing the "MythBusters" series? Once a month to go along with your newsletters. Use it to rebut some of those notions, and you can show off some of the newer tools in the process.


That would be an awesome idea. Could even recruit us LW users and send us a myth to debunk...would be a great platform for us and save the LW3DG from having to do it all.

:i_agree: That really is a good idea. Not only do you show what LW can do, you also can get the users involved.

Excellent AbneRanger! :thumbsup:

ncr100
12-04-2014, 11:18 PM
How about compiling a list of the most common misconceptions, in the industry, about LW, and do periodic segments spoofing the "MythBusters" series? Once a month to go along with your newsletters. Use it to rebut some of those notions, and you can show off some of the newer tools in the process.

...

Myth busting for how easy / hard [.. or just speedy ignoring the easy/hard since workflows are being upgraded ..] it is to do something useful with various 3d apps? Every app has pro's con's - that's some hardcore marketing (no pun) effort.

sukardi
12-04-2014, 11:50 PM
Upgraded.

That surface clip map although seems like a minor tweak, eliminates one major bottleneck to my workflow.

Now that I have played with it, the rendering tweaks are also pretty nice. Importance sampling do work with brute force monte carlo ...

jeric_synergy
12-05-2014, 12:11 AM
What I would like to see is some type of dialogue. They could propose an idea in a thread and let users discuss it and perhaps ask additional questions or make additional comments. They could ask us something like "Would feature X be useful to you and how might you like it to work. They could give us a problem and let users come up with the best tool or feature that might help solve it.
THIS. To give a concrete example, the recent discussion of the TRANSFORM tool would have benefited, well, EVERYBODY.

My takeaway from that discussion is users wanted to use TRANSFORM but it failed at mm scales -- I know it did for me and at least one other user (Snosrap?). I conjecture that the test sets were mostly 100mm and larger, while 5mm and smaller objects are quite common. If the devs were testing with appropriate test sets this issue would have been avoided from the start. A dialog between users and developers would have maybe made it clear what scales users commonly work at.

If devs are moving around 1 meter boxes to test tool functionality, that's not good.

prometheus
12-05-2014, 03:21 AM
Nope, too light for the price and much too buggy for being so light (and yes, I did try it).

those words sum up what I experience pretty much too, the speed of creation is indeed Value for money to be said of lightwave still, but it doesnīt outweigh the reasons for me when deciding to not upgrade.

Hopefully I do hope for later versions which starts to bring in a little more of what I would like to see, and also perhaps a bit more stable than this is.
There are some features in 2015 that I and many others asked for..like patch boarders to speed up workflow of that, bullet dynamics is the Big one, and I also asked for multicam viewports, but It still feels a little too thin for a major upgrade, besides..I already said to my self, if these features arenīt improved on, or get implemented in this upgrade, then I would likely simply skip to upgrade...and the results are just that.

Hypervoxels, particle improvements and weight paint and display in opengl layout and sculpt brushes, and a new atmospheric volumetric sky system... are some of the stuff I decided to have that importance. (particle display enhancements made are nice though)

two of some of those features and it would have been a little more thicker in release and could have made the difference, if it also could have been more stable.

And when this release also throws so many crashes at me, then my gut feeling this time says..no ..not this time, I still have some days to test and change my mind..which is probably set at 90% certain of not upgrading, but it will take a lot to change my mind after these impressions of the demo.


Michael

Nicolas Jordan
12-05-2014, 06:23 AM
Upgraded.

That surface clip map although seems like a minor tweak, eliminates one major bottleneck to my workflow.

Now that I have played with it, the rendering tweaks are also pretty nice. Importance sampling do work with brute force monte carlo ...

Those 2 features alone are the reasons I'm considering upgrading. It would be nice to prep assets like trees with clip maps that load with the object instead of the scene. I also look forward to being able to mouse wheel zoom in modeler while having a LWCAD tool active.

lightscape
12-05-2014, 06:32 AM
Waiting for signs of integration. Nothing yet.

slv
12-05-2014, 06:51 AM
yes of course, I upgraded because Newtek need us for our support and help to continue to developed Lightwave. And of course because we need of Lightwave.

http://5500k.fr

MrFurious
12-05-2014, 07:10 AM
A few options missing from the poll:

'No, will upgrade when it resembles a full (and stable) release upgrade'
'No, was expecting a point release to address bugs, instead offered a paid upgrade with even more bugs and features I don't need'
'No, too many (ahem) -under the hood- advances and not enough actual advances'
'Upgrade?.. I thought this was an open beta?

In any case 'skipping this one' sums it up in a nutshell.

Greenlaw
12-05-2014, 07:19 AM
FWIW, I don't consider embedded clip maps a minor tweak. Almost everybody I know who uses clip maps has asked for this for about 15 years. It simplifies and makes for a cleaner workflow, especially when working with a team of artists who need to share modeling assets. Heck, with the old system, you couldn't even Save and Load your clip map settings. This is really a pretty big deal.

This is just me, but I could probably take all these 'little things' alone (search tools, double-click drop, etc.) and still see a worthwhile upgrade. (Not to dismiss the big feature improvements like the Bullet additions and enhancements, etc.,.) :)

G.

MrFurious
12-05-2014, 07:24 AM
FWIW, I don't consider embedded clip maps a minor tweak. Almost everybody I know who uses clip maps has asked for this for about 15 years....This is really a pretty big deal.

G.

The only thing which makes this a big deal is the fact it took 15 years to arrive.

Nicolas Jordan
12-05-2014, 07:39 AM
FWIW, I don't consider embedded clip maps a minor tweak. Almost everybody I know who uses clip maps has asked for this for about 15 years. It simplifies and makes for a cleaner workflow, especially when working with a team of artists who need to share modeling assets. Heck, with the old system, you couldn't even Save and Load your clip map settings. This is really a pretty big deal.

This is just me, but I could probably take all these 'little things' alone (search tools, double-click drop, etc.) and still see a worthwhile upgrade. (Not to dismiss the big feature improvements like the Bullet additions and enhancements, etc.,.) :)

G.

It makes me wonder what the reason was that clip maps weren't originally implemented this way. Would it have been any harder having clip maps on a per surface basis considering transparency, specular, bump and everything else can be applied this way. Having clip maps be applied per object never made any sense to me. I use clip maps every day in my work so for me this is a "huge" feature also! :thumbsup:

MrFurious
12-05-2014, 07:50 AM
You mean per scene rather than per object..

I mostly agree but replace the word 'huge' with 'overdue' and the word 'feature' with 'addition'

creacon
12-05-2014, 08:49 AM
If there are signs they would be in the documentation and the header files of the SDK ;-)

Greenlaw
12-05-2014, 09:18 AM
The only thing which makes this a big deal is the fact it took 15 years to arrive.

Okay, I'll buy that. :D

Greenlaw
12-05-2014, 09:24 AM
It makes me wonder what the reason was that clip maps weren't originally implemented this way. Would it have been any harder having clip maps on a per surface basis considering transparency, specular, bump and everything else can be applied this way. Having clip maps be applied per object never made any sense to me. I use clip maps every day in my work so for me this is a "huge" feature also! :thumbsup:

It's because, technically speaking, Clip Map is not a surface property at all--it's a geometry/render property and 'under the hood' it functions quite differently from Transparency maps and other surfarce properties. Of course in more practical terms, most users see it as a 'surface' property because they use it in place of or combined with Transparency to reduce raytrace calculations.

Putting Clip Map where we (the users) always felt it belonged probably goes against how the original programmer viewed this feature. Thankfully, times have changed. (Thanks LW3DG!) :)

G

Greenlaw
12-05-2014, 09:33 AM
That said, I guess a 'geometry' property probably should have been saved with, well, the geometry. I think the old guard was just hesitant about changing the .lwo format to accommodate this. I can draw a parallel with this and FiberFX which, until recently, used to save all its style settings in the scene file too. (I think that finally changed in 11.5.)

lino.grandi
12-05-2014, 09:46 AM
It makes me wonder what the reason was that clip maps weren't originally implemented this way. Would it have been any harder having clip maps on a per surface basis considering transparency, specular, bump and everything else can be applied this way. Having clip maps be applied per object never made any sense to me. I use clip maps every day in my work so for me this is a "huge" feature also! :thumbsup:

I think the main reason is because when clip mapping was implemented UV mapping was not there yet.

jeric_synergy
12-05-2014, 10:41 AM
Greenlaw makes a historic point, but also a point about the pigheaded-ness of programmers.

It's SOFTware, it's flexible, it's malleable, and this is SO freekin' obvious....... At least it's finally done.

The ugliest hack solution is preferable to no solution at all, and embedding clip maps can't have been so difficult that it was undoable once UV mapping was implemented.

This particular feature is 'climbing the charts', which is great, and a Poll would be interesting to see which feature upgraders and new users rate the highest.

Conversely, it'd be great for a poll (rather than our diffuse constant nagging) to see which hoop we're currently jumping thru that people would MOST welcome the elimination of. For instance, I really think it's RIDICULOUS that modeling BACKGROUND configs are not stored with their relevant geometry. (Instead, you are forced to load them separately, and almost always the file dialog is pointing to the wrong directory.)

I guess a "pre-poll" posting could collect candidates, and then a sampling of top-ten-ish (IIRC polls are limited to 10 items) could go up against each other.

Meanwhile, here's a script approach to the BACKGROUND issue: replace LOAD with a script that indeed loads the mesh, but also hunts for the background config in the same folder and loads that too.

Riff_Masteroff
12-05-2014, 11:54 AM
Steve Worley . . . printed G2 docs, page 49 . . . . circa 2002:

" I understand the math, I wrote the code, I determined the controls and their names. But even I don't think don't think about the meanings of each parameter any more. I just twist the dials to see what looks best. It's a great feeling! It's like how a painter doesn't have to worry about the type of screws that hold his easel together, or even the type of wood in his paintbrush. It's a huge relief to forget about the details and use your brain to think about the image, not the software internals. "

To me, words of wisdom. In my opinion: relevant to aspects of this conversation: communication between the developers and users.

jwiede
12-05-2014, 01:28 PM
You mean per scene rather than per object..

I mostly agree but replace the word 'huge' with 'overdue' and the word 'feature' with 'addition'

That's exactly why such changes should NOT be given undue weight beyond what they merit based on complexity of change (which is minimal in most of these cases). Doing otherwise just encourages LW3DG to withhold improvements longer to build demand.

Vong
12-05-2014, 08:59 PM
Will I upgrade, yes, once the cash flow allows it to happen.

However, I am disappointed that it's a paid upgrade. After having that show stopping bug (which was confirmed and squashed) back in June, I half expected another point release just to fix bugs. I was loving how easy things were working in LW for the project I was working on. Would have looked great too! Because of the bug, it made me have to use another software package and learn how to do what I was doing in LW in less than a day. Results looked half @$$ed and while the client was 'Okay' with it, I wasn't.

Not all of us are studios, but some of us do have some pretty good sized clients! :D

spherical
12-06-2014, 01:42 AM
A few options missing from the poll:

'No, will upgrade when it resembles a full (and stable) release upgrade'
'No, was expecting a point release to address bugs, instead offered a paid upgrade with even more bugs and features I don't need'
'No, too many (ahem) -under the hood- advances and not enough actual advances'
'Upgrade?.. I thought this was an open beta?

In any case 'skipping this one' sums it up in a nutshell.

I offer an option that goes the other way:

Already Upgraded.

spherical
12-06-2014, 01:45 AM
Heck, with the old system, you couldn't even Save and Load your clip map settings. This is really a pretty big deal.

I loaded the clip map into the Transparency channel to store it and just turned it off. Then, would load the image into the Clip Map for that object in whatever scene I was using it in. Clunky and repetitive but workable. That is all behind us now. WooHoo!

spherical
12-06-2014, 03:41 AM
Sorry. I just can't let this slide.


Greenlaw makes a historic point, but also a point about the pigheaded-ness of programmers.

It's SOFTware, it's flexible, it's malleable, and this is SO freekin' obvious.......

And your programming experience is?


The ugliest hack solution is preferable to no solution at all, and embedding clip maps can't have been so difficult that it was undoable once UV mapping was implemented.

Said after Lino disclosed the prerequisite one post earlier.

C'mon. Can this bashing please stop?

probiner
12-06-2014, 03:56 AM
Steve Worley . . . printed G2 docs, page 49 . . . . circa 2002:

" I understand the math, I wrote the code, I determined the controls and their names. But even I don't think don't think about the meanings of each parameter any more. I just twist the dials to see what looks best. It's a great feeling! It's like how a painter doesn't have to worry about the type of screws that hold his easel together, or even the type of wood in his paintbrush. It's a huge relief to forget about the details and use your brain to think about the image, not the software internals. "

To me, words of wisdom. In my opinion: relevant to aspects of this conversation: communication between the developers and users.

The power of compounds :)

djwaterman
12-06-2014, 03:56 AM
I'll know on the last day of my trial version whether I have the pressing need to upgrade or not, I'm not in any rush and have nothing right now that requires any of the new features, as welcome as they are.

Megalodon2.0
12-06-2014, 04:13 AM
I loaded the clip map into the Transparency channel to store it and just turned it off. Then, would load the image into the Clip Map for that object in whatever scene I was using it in. Clunky and repetitive but workable. That is all behind us now. WooHoo!
I currently load it with the object as a texture, then "slide" it over to the clip map tab and delete it from the texture. I seriously like the new implementation.

Sorry. I just can't let this slide.

Said after Lino disclosed the prerequisite one post earlier.

C'mon. Can this bashing please stop?

UV mapping wasn't available till LW6. LW6 was around 14 years ago. I'll have to agree with Jeric on this one - it should have been implemented LONG ago.

(Unless that's not what you're talking about?) ;)

vncnt
12-06-2014, 05:11 AM
Iīm happy that I can now upgrade the license at work too.
Keeping features in sync makes the experience less frustrating.

OT: just installed the free version of Fusion 7.5.
I paid for my other Fusion licenses but I do understand that a free version (without some pro-features) or a very inexpensive version really helps to attract new users that will eventually pay for the pro-features when they feel comfortable as a user and as a business person or employee.

jasonwestmas
12-06-2014, 06:48 AM
That's exactly why such changes should NOT be given undue weight beyond what they merit based on complexity of change (which is minimal in most of these cases). Doing otherwise just encourages LW3DG to withhold improvements longer to build demand.

I see what you are saying but i think the lw team is still playing the catch-up game. I really would not suggest that lw3dg is content at all with where they are Competition wise.

cresshead
12-06-2014, 08:37 AM
Waiting for signs of integration.
Not expecting modeler to arrive wholesale into layout but layout does require some tools that can access poly, verts and edges and also some basic model creation capabilities.
once this "under the hood" breaks cover and arrives so we can see it...well that will be very interesting to see.

i currently have 2 seats o lightwave, one at 10.1 and the other at 9.6

Luc_Feri
12-06-2014, 09:28 AM
As a hobbyist the upgrade makes me a fence sitter. There are some really nice additions, I agree the clip map addition is a very big deal, i have a huge library of Xfrog trees that are modo presets that I just didn't want to bother converting due to the hoops but now would be easy.

I bought my license in Sept 2012 and have been spoilt with point updates since then, so I feel like LW3DG deserve my money!! However, if there are to be yearly updates for $495 then the current version does more than I need just now so i may just wait for a sale or update next year.

I hope you guys keep up the great work. It annoys me when people say modeler recieves no love in the modo forums, even I can see since 11 to 11.6.3 there where many great little additions to the toolset.

lino.grandi
12-06-2014, 09:37 AM
As a hobbyist the upgrade makes me a fence sitter. There are some really nice additions, I agree the clip map addition is a very big deal, i have a huge library of Xfrog trees that are modo presets that I just didn't want to bother converting due to the hoops but now would be easy.

I bought my license in Sept 2012 and have been spoilt with point updates since then, so I feel like LW3DG deserve my money!! However, if there are to be yearly updates for $495 then the current version does more than I need just now so i may just wait for a sale or update next year.

I hope you guys keep up the great work. It annoys me when people say modeler recieves no love in the modo forums, even I can see since 11 to 11.6.3 there where many great little additions to the toolset.

We've done what we could about Modeler. But we're fully aware of the fact modeling side needs a lot of attention. ;)

Luc_Feri
12-06-2014, 09:46 AM
We've done what we could about Modeler. But we're fully aware of the fact modeling side needs a lot of attention. ;)

To be fair I guess it does need a refresh, but the main thing for me would be if you could get the same kind of polygonal performance as you can get inside of Chronosulpt then it's win, win!! :D

Snosrap
12-06-2014, 12:12 PM
We've done what we could about Modeler. But we're fully aware of the fact modeling side needs a lot of attention. ;)

That pretty much say's it all. Re-doing Modeler and slowly bringing layout functionality to it makes way more sense than adding modeling functions to Layout. Who would have thought that the split nature of LW would be a blessing in disguise for the developers for this type of development track. :thumbsup:

hrgiger
12-06-2014, 12:23 PM
That pretty much say's it all. Re-doing Modeler and slowly bringing layout functionality to it makes way more sense than adding modeling functions to Layout. Who would have thought that the split nature of LW would be a blessing in disguise for the developers for this type of development track. :thumbsup:

Hmm, I dont get that at all from what Lino said.

Snosrap
12-06-2014, 12:50 PM
Hmm, I dont get that at all from what Lino said.

And that's why they never say anything. :) My interpretation "Modeler is a lost cause. We've done the the little things that we could do it for these past couple cycles, but it needs re-written from scratch so that is where we are investing our time."

cresshead
12-06-2014, 12:57 PM
one things for sure Lightwave 12 isn't coming any time soon!

roll on Lightwave 2016 :)

hrgiger
12-06-2014, 01:10 PM
And that's why they never say anything. :) My interpretation "Modeler is a lost cause. We've done the the little things that we could do it for these past couple cycles, but it needs re-written from scratch so that is where we are investing our time."
Yeah I get the lost cause thing but I dont see why that would mean a whole new modeler as opposed to redoing modeling within Layout. If they were going to build a whole new modeler, then they would have just kept CORE going.

jeric_synergy
12-06-2014, 01:16 PM
That pretty much say's it all. Re-doing Modeler and slowly bringing layout functionality to it makes way more sense than adding modeling functions to Layout. Who would have thought that the split nature of LW would be a blessing in disguise for the developers for this type of development track. :thumbsup:
:stumped: While I certainly think Modeler needs re-doing, I think adding modeling functionality to LAYOUT makes more sense. Layout obviously already has at least some of the infrastructure required to create geometry. And matching plates is better done there too. :???:

Greenlaw
12-06-2014, 02:13 PM
I loaded the clip map into the Transparency channel to store it and just turned it off. Then, would load the image into the Clip Map for that object in whatever scene I was using it in. Clunky and repetitive but workable. That is all behind us now. WooHoo!
Yeah, I've done that too. It was a good workaround but the problem comes when working with a team of artists--not everybody who loads the object into a new scene is going to think of doing that before using it even if you've already explained the extra steps to them. Eventually, I began stressing that an object should always be loaded from an LFS scene (Load items From Scene), but even that instruction doesn't always get followed, especially if it's not a 'rigged' object.

But yes, with 2015 that's all behind us. Moving forward now. :)

G.

Kuzey
12-06-2014, 02:44 PM
And that's why they never say anything. :) My interpretation "Modeler is a lost cause. We've done the the little things that we could do it for these past couple cycles, but it needs re-written from scratch so that is where we are investing our time."


Yeah I get the lost cause thing but I dont see why that would mean a whole new modeler as opposed to redoing modeling within Layout. If they were going to build a whole new modeler, then they would have just kept CORE going.

It's funny isn't it :)

The impression I got was most of modeler is fixed/updated under the hood, and it's a matter of just bringing the new tools to the surface :)

Integration is a different issue..but that's just my take :)

Greenlaw
12-06-2014, 03:40 PM
That's kinda how I read it.

FWIW, I was a bit surprised earlier this year to learn that there is a button in Layout to change the Subpatch state of an object (Modeler Tools > Toggles > Toggle Subpatch). So I guess, integration has been happening...just very slowly. :)

G.

jasonwestmas
12-06-2014, 04:40 PM
That's kinda how I read it.

FWIW, I was a bit surprised earlier this year to learn that there is a button in Layout to change the Subpatch state of an object (Modeler Tools > Toggles > Toggle Subpatch). So I guess, integration has been happening...just very slowly. :)

G.


Lol, that feature is a decade old G. :)

Greenlaw
12-06-2014, 04:52 PM
Yeah, I figured as much. Duh. :)

TrueSongMedia
12-06-2014, 05:53 PM
Not unless or until Modeler is vastly improved.

Snosrap
12-06-2014, 08:09 PM
Yeah I get the lost cause thing but I dont see why that would mean a whole new modeler as opposed to redoing modeling within Layout. If they were going to build a whole new modeler, then they would have just kept CORE going. Think Chronosculpt with more modeling tools and at a later time rendering and animation. :)

prometheus
12-06-2014, 11:17 PM
That's kinda how I read it.

FWIW, I was a bit surprised earlier this year to learn that there is a button in Layout to change the Subpatch state of an object (Modeler Tools > Toggles > Toggle Subpatch). So I guess, integration has been happening...just very slowly. :)

G.

think that has been around for quite some time, the fracture tool, and the basic geometry creation tools are perhaps more of a witness to that change.

jeric_synergy
12-06-2014, 11:48 PM
Yeah, I figured as much. Duh. :)
Hey, I was surprised too. Nobody was trumpeting that fact, that's fer shurrrr.

hrgiger
12-07-2014, 03:05 AM
Think Chronosculpt with more modeling tools and at a later time rendering and animation. :)


Well it would have to be quite a few more modeling tools as Chronosculpt has 0 right now. Reshaping vertices in animation yes, but 0 actual mesh creation functions.

MarcusM
12-07-2014, 03:31 AM
Well it would have to be quite a few more modeling tools as Chronosculpt has 0 right now. Reshaping vertices in animation yes, but 0 actual mesh creation functions.

Chornosculpt shows up some time ago. If it was created in 5 months it's could be possible that in future we will see new Modeler (on new engine). This can be good direction :)
From David Ikeda linkedin "...full development of ChronoSculpt...The software went from most basic prototype to shipped product in 5 months with ports to 3 separate platforms..."

MrFurious
12-07-2014, 03:52 AM
Is it possible to re-cast my vote, now that this option has been added: "no, but maybe if we get a point upgrade "?

prometheus
12-07-2014, 04:13 AM
I have previously mentioned that the stock value of me buying in to the upgrade isnīt that much, at current state I said it was around 90% of not upgrading.

I have just tested some stuff with bullet motors((car content), and mixing with ragdoll content...and I really like this stuff, It looks quite realistic in the dynamics and behavior, and it is very easy to start going ..at least with the content provided..so
that stuff means I am increasing the stock values of me upgrading...by decreasing my not upgrade percentage, to 80%...though I need further testing, and it needs to go down to at least 50%, and then it becomes a purely economical decision..and perhaps also a question on what I can see...or what the lw group can share of whats next on the roadmap.

bobakabob
12-07-2014, 04:42 AM
Definitely upgrading as soon as the motion blur bug is fixed. Otherwise can't use LW2015 :(

Re: LW3D communication, there should be a more distinct forum with graphics and thumbnails.

Also, a reprise of William's LW Evangelist role would create a buzz on the forums and be good for publicity, showing what you can do with the software, highlighting features with tutorials. Much more of a creative response as LW3DG have understandably said they can't give too much away about future developments.

prometheus
12-07-2014, 06:04 AM
Well it would have to be quite a few more modeling tools as Chronosculpt has 0 right now. Reshaping vertices in animation yes, but 0 actual mesh creation functions.

My vote is to drop chronosculpt and bring that tech inside of lightwave itself, sculpting yes, fixing of dynamics yes, and no going back and forth between apps...just my vote, but I guess my vote is not technically valid ..nor
economical market valid as it stands now..and as it was planned for use with other software.

If technically possible, hell ...go for it.
If the market model works right now with the sales of chronosculpt? I have no Idea, sure would be interesting to know though, just to speculate if it wouldnīt have been better to implement it inside of lightwave instead to
give Lightwave itself an extra boost in market sales, that is if it would be technically possible?
Just my thoughts on it... if it were technically possible, but I donīt know anything about it, so it is merely just speculative thoughts.

Michael

seghier
12-07-2014, 11:15 AM
No because i fill lightwave team cheating when they sell lightwave 11.6 by 695$ and than they quickly launch v 2015 with lower price; now lightwave is like autodesk softwares with 1 year license
every year new version
and why lightwave team don't reduce upgrade price ?

jasonwestmas
12-07-2014, 11:34 AM
No because i fill lightwave team cheating when they sell lightwave 11.6 by 695$ and than they quickly launch v 2015 with lower price; now lightwave is like autodesk softwares with 1 year license
every year new version
and why lightwave team don't reduce upgrade price ?

?? The upgrade price is lower at $495. It used to be $695. The price of LW11 was $1495 at one time I believe, now it is $995. Autodesk products are going up in price, not down.

jeric_synergy
12-07-2014, 11:49 AM
Also, 'quickly'?

Chris S. (Fez)
12-07-2014, 12:50 PM
The modeling updates are a bit anticlimactic but incredibly practical. Overall this is an awesome upgrade for an awesome price. I'll update after the holidays. No time to play with new toys until the new year.

brent3d
12-07-2014, 01:30 PM
No because i fill lightwave team cheating when they sell lightwave 11.6 by 695$ and than they quickly launch v 2015 with lower price; now lightwave is like autodesk softwares with 1 year license
every year new version
and why lightwave team don't reduce upgrade price ?

Lightwaves 2015 Lic expires in 1 year?

hrgiger
12-07-2014, 01:52 PM
I don't see these being annual releases or something despite the new naming convention.

Bytehawk
12-08-2014, 09:48 AM
Not going to upgrade because the upgrade price for me is about 579 dollars and not the 395 $ I paid for the previous upgrade. Last time I paid directly in the US, now I 'm forced to use a german company instead of the US one??????

Greenlaw
12-08-2014, 01:27 PM
AFAIK, LW3DG is still selling perpetual licenses, not annual subscriptions.

I agree with hrgiger--the new naming doesn't necessarily mean there will be a 'major upgrade' release every year. But we'll see.

G.

medicalart
12-08-2014, 02:15 PM
Is there a list of specific feature upgrades? (I looked on the site but don't see anything.) I have 11.6.3 and wonder about the benefit of upgrade hassle.

Megalodon2.0
12-08-2014, 02:58 PM
AFAIK, LW3DG is still selling perpetual licenses, not annual subscriptions.

I agree with hrgiger--the new naming doesn't necessarily mean there will be a 'major upgrade' release every year. But we'll see.

G.
I bet we will - at least I believe that that's their goal. But as you say... we'll see. ;)

spherical
12-08-2014, 07:20 PM
Is there a list of specific feature upgrades? (I looked on the site but don't see anything.) I have 11.6.3 and wonder about the benefit of upgrade hassle.

Right there on the lightwave3d.com main page. Two tiles on the left side with "Features" somewhere in the title. The lower one leads to the video, dedicated panels on the major stuff and complete feature update list.

prometheus
12-09-2014, 04:06 AM
Right there on the lightwave3d.com main page. Two tiles on the left side with "Features" somewhere in the title. The lower one leads to the video, dedicated panels on the major stuff and complete feature update list.

Not completly coverage..maybe the most and important stuff is there though, the manual located in the 2015 install directory also has a blue 2015 marking on all features that are improved or new to 2015, However ..not even that covers it I think.

I found out the the OpenGl particle display is much better now, they have adapted smaller point display, which actually helps showcasing it better in terms of seeing the whole particle density as it will look like more closely to if you use very fine particle size with hvīs, so I like that one..I think it has adapted the same nicer display that modo and houdini has, though we could use an interface control for it, so if we by any chance would like to have larger particle points in open gl, you could set that, I also would like to have openGL display without the particles showin velocity stretching..which they always do in the open GL.

This improvement I havenīt seen described anywhere in manual or feature lists...and I wouldnīt be surprised if there are more hidden tools or improvements.

Scoobistorm
12-09-2014, 06:12 AM
i'm trying to upgrade to 2015 from lw 10 but i'm a still charter member from the old hardcore days and it seems to be insisting i buy 11.6 first - i'm not interested in upgrading twice in 1 day at extra cost - anyone know a way around this rather idiotic setup?

lardbros
12-09-2014, 06:44 AM
i'm trying to upgrade to 2015 from lw 10 but i'm a still charter member from the old hardcore days and it seems to be insisting i buy 11.6 first - i'm not interested in upgrading twice in 1 day at extra cost - anyone know a way around this rather idiotic setup?

Get in touch with support, they usually get back really fast!

hrgiger
12-09-2014, 07:51 AM
i'm trying to upgrade to 2015 from lw 10 but i'm a still charter member from the old hardcore days and it seems to be insisting i buy 11.6 first - i'm not interested in upgrading twice in 1 day at extra cost - anyone know a way around this rather idiotic setup?
Here's the deal. If you want to keep your hardcore price guarantee, you have to buy both 11 and 2015. If you want to upgrade straight to 2015, you can do that without upgrading to 11 first, but you will lose your hardcore pricing guarantee. Those are your 2 choices. No need to contact support. The hardcore pricing only stays in effect if you buy each of the 5 upgrades.

Scoobistorm
12-09-2014, 08:03 AM
i dont want my hardcore pricing i just wanna go straight to 2015 but it wont let me when i select upgrade from my account it automatically puts the 11.6 upgrade into the basket and no way to make it put 2015 in as far as i can see - so i have contacted customer support see how that goes

bbuxton
12-09-2014, 08:57 AM
I get confused by the hardcore pricing. Although I had the hardcore membership and have not missed any upgrades my account says post charter and the upgrade seems to be the same as the regular price.

erikals
12-09-2014, 09:02 AM
i'd contact LW support... they'll help you out

Oedo 808
12-09-2014, 09:31 AM
I'm really not sure what I'll do, so haven't chosen an answer as yet. As far as HardCore pricing goes, I wish they'd get rid of that condition that you need to get each upgrade because if they do raise the price significantly it's going to be WWIII on these forums. A part of me can't help but wonder if the $495 price is to tempt people who didn't upgrade to 11 to forfeit their charter membership before a price rise, and if isn't, just drop the damn condition already. (lol, I sound 'murican, though a Canadian influence is likely the cause).

Even though I support focusing on a new modeller, I don't think they should ignore the current one in its entirety. I don't mean to be mean but quite frankly, though Lino and company may have taken Modeler "as far as they can", there is quite clearly a gulf between what the LightWave Group's capabilities with Modeler are and that of other plugin developers such as Viktor, Sensei and various others on the plugin database. While talk of employing a commercial dev to bolster their efforts might be unrealistic, I'd like to see someone like Art (http://forums.newtek.com/member.php?6572-art) recruited to plump up ye olde Modeler a bit. Ahh, just think of Bezier Bridge with multiple bridges and all the options of Extrude+...

Snosrap
12-09-2014, 11:51 AM
Even though I support focusing on a new modeller, I don't think they should ignore the current one in its entirety. I don't mean to be mean but quite frankly, though Lino and company may have taken Modeler "as far as they can", there is quite clearly a gulf between what the LightWave Group's capabilities with Modeler are and that of other plugin developers such as Viktor, Sensei and various others on the plugin database. While talk of employing a commercial dev to bolster their efforts might be unrealistic, I'd like to see someone like Art (http://forums.newtek.com/member.php?6572-art) recruited to plump up ye olde Modeler a bit. Ahh, just think of Bezier Bridge with multiple bridges and all the options of Extrude+... The key to a better Modeler is either an improvement to the existing toolkit or going with something like QT. Neither of which we have seen clues as to taking place. UntilOnce we as users see simple things like renaming layers within the Layers panel, we can rest assured that we are still dealing with the older infrastructure.

hrgiger
12-09-2014, 12:41 PM
I get confused by the hardcore pricing. Although I had the hardcore membership and have not missed any upgrades my account says post charter and the upgrade seems to be the same as the regular price.

Post charter means you bought into hardcore past the March 31st deadline which means you have a guaranteed price of $495 which currently is the same price as a LW regular upgrade. I bought in before March 31st so my price is $395 for example sake. Some people were confused because they think their price should be lower the the regular LW upgrade. But as Rob has explained it, hardcore pricing is not a discount, its a price lock so you wont pay more then that price even if the LW upgrade price goes up (like for LW 11, upgrade price was $695).

hrgiger
12-09-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm really not sure what I'll do, so haven't chosen an answer as yet. As far as HardCore pricing goes, I wish they'd get rid of that condition that you need to get each upgrade because if they do raise the price significantly it's going to be WWIII on these forums. A part of me can't help but wonder if the $495 price is to tempt people who didn't upgrade to 11 to forfeit their charter membership before a price rise, and if isn't, just drop the damn condition already. (lol, I sound 'murican, though a Canadian influence is likely the cause).

Even though I support focusing on a new modeller, I don't think they should ignore the current one in its entirety. I don't mean to be mean but quite frankly, though Lino and company may have taken Modeler "as far as they can", there is quite clearly a gulf between what the LightWave Group's capabilities with Modeler are and that of other plugin developers such as Viktor, Sensei and various others on the plugin database. While talk of employing a commercial dev to bolster their efforts might be unrealistic, I'd like to see someone like Art (http://forums.newtek.com/member.php?6572-art) recruited to plump up ye olde Modeler a bit. Ahh, just think of Bezier Bridge with multiple bridges and all the options of Extrude+...


As far as modeler goes...

if it were just new tools we were tlking about I would agree with you but it goes deeper then that. Its the whole system and certainly a new geometry engine is needed. And that cant be just added to Modeler, it hs to be a core part of the system, then every single tool would have to be rewritten to use it. The new modeling tools that were added in 11.5 werent added inside of modeler, they were sort of pushed in beside it.

And its good you mentioned LWCAD becaause again, its not that Viktor has extended modelers toolset.. its more like he built a modeler inside of modeler. He built his own system of on screen widgets and even added his own edge support since modeler doesnt actually support true edges (which is why when you use edges on something like LWCAD's mass round tool, you select edges as a part of the tool, not select edges using LW edge mode).

bobakabob
12-09-2014, 12:57 PM
Too many people underestimate Modeler (possibly even Newtek) when you look at the innovatory *genius* of plugin creators such as Viktor (LWCAD) and 3rd Powers - the potential is considerable. You can create loads of things impossible even in Zbrush (which is positioning itself as no1 organic and hard modelling app) like challenging low poly sub d booleans (even Maya has trouble in this dept). OK Modeler slows when you have millions of polys but then so in my experience do Maya and Max.

Maybe Newtek have finally twigged there's life in the old Modeler yet. Hopefully the Hydra tech will result in something far more advanced in poly handling. Modeler really does need to grow and keep pace with competitive technology.

But right now Modeler + LWCad + 3rd Powers plugins combined with Z Brush is surely most modellers need (short of dare I say it, imagination)?

If Modeller is being rebuilt LW3DG could look at consolidating the toolset. Although Maya is still IMHO limited by comparison, it's new polygonal toolkit only comprises a few basic tools but they are very powerful.

Looking forward to upgrading - but only once there's confirmation the bugs are fixed (esp the Motion Blur issue in Layout).

bbuxton
12-09-2014, 01:54 PM
Post charter means you bought into hardcore past the March 31st deadline which means you have a guaranteed price of $495 which currently is the same price as a LW regular upgrade. I bought in before March 31st so my price is $395 for example sake. Some people were confused because they think their price should be lower the the regular LW upgrade. But as Rob has explained it, hardcore pricing is not a discount, its a price lock so you wont pay more then that price even if the LW upgrade price goes up (like for LW 11, upgrade price was $695).

Thanks for making it a bit clearer. I'm pretty sure I bought into the hardcore as soon as there was a Mac version. I'll check through my invoices for an exact date. I'm not complaining about the price which is good value in any light. :D

Oedo 808
12-10-2014, 08:43 AM
As far as modeler goes...

if it were just new tools we were tlking about I would agree with you but it goes deeper then that. Its the whole system and certainly a new geometry engine is needed. And that cant be just added to Modeler, it hs to be a core part of the system, then every single tool would have to be rewritten to use it. The new modeling tools that were added in 11.5 werent added inside of modeler, they were sort of pushed in beside it.

It's safe to assume I agree with this, though I know it can be hard to keep track of who said what. But I am talking just about new tools.


And its good you mentioned LWCAD becaause again, its not that Viktor has extended modelers toolset.. its more like he built a modeler inside of modeler. He built his own system of on screen widgets and even added his own edge support since modeler doesnt actually support true edges (which is why when you use edges on something like LWCAD's mass round tool, you select edges as a part of the tool, not select edges using LW edge mode).

I fail to believe that every tool is built on his own modeller, but that doesn't matter, it doesn't explain what appears from a search through plugins with the like of Pictrix et al. I did say that I supported focussing on architectural changes, but I also feel that doing barely anything in existing modeler isn't something I'm entirely happy with.

While I understand that asking for things like a history stack and such are beyond what is realistic, I just don't believe that there's nothing that could be done that wouldn't be a herculean effort, in that it would take too long to do or that it would have no usefulness once the architectural changes were there. That's why I said I would like to see someone such as Art on the team that could maybe polish and add things to the depth of the tools he has made, as I felt that more realistic than asking for deep rooted changes or the usual calls of "Hire Viktor!" etc..

With "no, way too few Modeler improvements" and "no, but maybe if we get a point upgrade" making up nigh on 20% of the respondents combined, I don't think it would be too outlandish to have something given to Modeler in one of the point release. I know that Modeler has its limitations but even without Viktor's contribution, the old "We've done all we can" is beginning to feel a little bit like telling teacher "The dog ate my homework" for the umpteenth time.

Maybe it was a poor choice of words, it could have been "We've done all we are going to do." Which is different to the age old story of "We've done all we can do." in regards to Modeler. But I just don't feel that because of the need to modernize the architecture that LightWave is beyond benefiting from new additions to Modeler, and I'm sorry but seeing what has been achieved by others when I look through my plugin folder, I just don't believe it would be too difficult. I might have been content thus far, not any longer, but that's me.

hrgiger
12-10-2014, 09:36 AM
Im sure that if they say "we've done all we can with modeler", its likely more akin to 'its more trouble then its worth and we're investing our time in more fruitful modeling gains' rather then 'we're physically unable to fix or add to modeler as is'. Either way, as usual, its out of our hand so we will just have to see what they have in store when the time comes.

Oedo 808
12-10-2014, 10:14 AM
Yeah I get that, and even though I've said that there is obviously room for development inside Modeler as it is, I was ok for even that to be forsaken prior to the advent of 2015, though I really hate to utter the forbidden word, the same could have been applied with Core, that it would have been better to ignore LightWave in its entirety and just work on that.

But given the tools that people come out with, commercial or otherwise, and sometimes following a request by someone in the community, developing for Modeler is quite obviously not the dark art that those who's actual job it is to make tools appear would have us believe. And while Rob thought that he couldn't forsake Layout and release nothing while they worked on Core, maybe for too many here forsaking anything to do with Modeler to work on the architecture is just as bad.

And yes, I probably have overreacted to the phrase because it's been used in the past when it was quite obviously bull****.

But as you say, nothing we can do (aside from look to an alternative) we just gotta wait.

ncr100
12-10-2014, 02:55 PM
We've done what we could about Modeler. But we're fully aware of the fact modeling side needs a lot of attention. ;)

The Wink of A Thousand Words™

Current and ongoing improvements are welcome, while keeping it simple is an art! :thumbsup:

Oedo 808
12-10-2014, 03:19 PM
If they keep it any more simple, they'll have to rename it to LightWave: Forrest Gump Edition.

lwanmtr
12-10-2014, 03:21 PM
As long as it runs fast and gets the hob done, thats fine :)

Oedo 808
12-10-2014, 03:24 PM
As long as it runs fast and gets the hob done, thats fine :)

I'm sure it'll run fast. I'm not so sure about keeping the kitchen clean.

hazmat777
12-10-2014, 04:28 PM
If they keep it any more simple, they'll have to rename it to LightWave: Forrest Gump Edition.

shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. :)

If LW3DG can get all that in Modeler, it will be a miracle. :D

Oedo 808
12-10-2014, 04:42 PM
If LW3DG can get all that in Modeler, it will be a miracle. :D

That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.

Except to say that a shrimp-kabobs.p could possibly placate me.

hazmat777
12-10-2014, 04:56 PM
That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.

Except to say that a shrimp-kabobs.p could possibly placate me.

Just kidding around and you are right, though I'd prefer the pineapple-shrimp.p myself.

jasonwestmas
12-10-2014, 09:08 PM
That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.


Might be interesting to see how many people rely fully on lightwave modeler these days when they need some modeling done.

lwanmtr
12-10-2014, 09:57 PM
I do all my modeling in Lightwave Modeler. I know how to make it do what I need. Just because it's a little behind and doesnt handle millions of polys like zbrush doesn't mean its a bad application.

Zbrush is the only other app i use for some things, though generally I make the base model in modeler.

That being said, I hope that the LW3DG do give Modeler the attention it deserves and needs. Because there are things I'd like to see and tool fixes

medicalart
12-12-2014, 06:29 PM
Not convinced they will ever really work on modeller so definitely not upgrading, and anyway had enough bugs/workarounds in LW10 and not interested in having to cope with more.

Dave.

Yes, 10 was buggy for me, too, but version 11.6 was not. 2015 looks to be a smooth transition from 11.6 so if you do upgrade you probably won't notice bugs.

jeric_synergy
12-12-2014, 06:47 PM
Let's just say that if the New Feature set doesn't move you, by all means hold off, but knowing you'll lose the slight advantage of HC membership.

Greenlaw
12-12-2014, 06:55 PM
Lightwave 10 had a lot of improvements over 9.6 but, yeah, it could be pretty buggy. I was a good step forward though.

Everything got so much better throughout 11's three year cycle though, which I felt was the best Lightwave ever. The initial release of 2015 has already addressed and improved long standing workflow issues, and I'm certain 2015 will continue to do so in future sp's.

Re: Lightwave Modeler. It's still my primary modeling app but I don't rely on it 100%. Sometimes I use 3D Coat or ZBrush, and occasionally I tap into Modo. Plus, I have maybe a half dozen smaller programs I use to support these tools. TBH, I don't think I can rely 100% on any of these programs but who says I have to?

G.

jeric_synergy
12-12-2014, 07:02 PM
Every LWer can afford Blender. So, there's an inconvenient way of getting good text into LW.

A compilation (prollly been done) of recommended free modeling additions would be useful.

Stopgaps are better than non-stopping gaps. :sigh:

Nicolas Jordan
12-14-2014, 09:02 AM
I mainly do arch-viz work and after some considerable time spent testing the trial version of 2015 with some of my projects I have decided to put off upgrading until some of the bugs in 2015 are worked out. I sent in a bug report on one crash I narrowed down and was able to reproduce. I experienced some unpredictable crashes with some scenes that I was not able to reproduce. 11.6.3 is very solid and stable so I will be sticking with using it for now. Hopefully after a couple service packs 2015 will be as solid and stable as 11.6.3.

brent3d
12-14-2014, 11:02 AM
I mainly do arch-viz work and after some considerable time spent testing the trial version of 2015 with some of my projects I have decided to put off upgrading until some of the bugs in 2015 are worked out. I sent in a bug report on one crash I narrowed down and was able to reproduce. I experienced some unpredictable crashes with some scenes that I was not able to reproduce. 11.6.3 is very solid and stable so I will be sticking with using it for now. Hopefully after a couple service packs 2015 will be as solid and stable as 11.6.3.

Bugs are part any form of software development, no matter how much you test before initial release. it's just up to the user to know if their needs are"cutting edge" or "bleeding edge". For those of us "cutting edge" who want/need the latest tools will use what's been released and deal with the updates. Those who are "bleeding edge" can wait a couple of months til things get sorted out. It's no big deal... if it was no one would ever by an iPhone..lol

djwaterman
12-14-2014, 12:06 PM
Yes, LW 11.6.2 is still able to load and render big scenes of mine that the 2015 trial just keeps crashing over, also those scenes saved on 2015 when opened in 11.6.2 are broken, luckily I saved them under a different name, so despite some of the cool stuff in there I will put off upgrading till it's been patched. Also the unusual behavior of Edit Edges in Modeler means I can't use Modeler at all until that's resolved, so I can't justify paying for something I'm not using immediately.

THIBAULT
12-14-2014, 12:55 PM
I had many problems with the trial version. The final version is much more stable even though I find it a little more" feverish". No problem here with architectural project ( just 19M Poly). Problem with instances when i need return to 11.6.3 version (Farm render doesn't upload LW2015) for the rest, it's all right.

Greenlaw
12-14-2014, 12:59 PM
Just curious but in what way is regressing versions breaking for you?

For the most part, I've been able to go back and forth when I need to. So far, and not surprisingly, where it breaks for me is Instances (distribution is completely different,) so I just stay in 2015 for that. Bullet will probably break if you're using the new constraints, but I always bake to MDD before breaking out a scene or if I need to use an older version. I'm guessing using any of the new render features is not going to translate to 11.x since those features didn't exist before 2015.

G.

Greenlaw
12-14-2014, 01:02 PM
Regarding network rendering, it's working for us at the studio where I'm freelancing at the moment. We're using Deadline as our render controller. At my own studio we're using BNR 5, but I haven't had time to set it up for 2015 yet. Will try to do that this week.

G.

djwaterman
12-14-2014, 04:38 PM
Just curious but in what way is regressing versions breaking for you?

For the most part, I've been able to go back and forth when I need to. So far, and not surprisingly, where it breaks for me is Instances (distribution is completely different,) so I just stay in 2015 for that. Bullet will probably break if you're using the new constraints, but I always bake to MDD before breaking out a scene or if I need to use an older version. I'm guessing using any of the new render features is not going to translate to 11.x since those features didn't exist before 2015.

G.

The scene had a bunch of instances so that is probably it.

lightscape
12-14-2014, 10:01 PM
I will probably upgrade later on I think after seeing some vids. Its still a year of development so hopefully more stuff coming in.
They are offering the lightwave upgrade at a very low price but with just enough features.
It seems more like a paid update which is fine.
So the way I see it instead of groundbreaking features for a hefty price tag, they are incrementally improving lightwave for a lower cost.

erikals
12-14-2014, 10:14 PM
well, the votes as for how many that will upgrade have been declining, so it looks like it might hit 50%

50% will upgrade
50% will not, or wait

could be better... then again, could be worse too...

spherical
12-14-2014, 10:40 PM
Could be raining.

erikals
12-14-2014, 10:57 PM
it did, just an hour ago... :° :)

CaptainMarlowe
12-14-2014, 11:02 PM
It IS raining, at least where I live :)

Greenlaw
12-14-2014, 11:06 PM
I just look back to where 11 started and where it wound up. The evolution of the 11 cycle is really quite remarkable. Of course there's no guarantee that LW3DG will sustain that momentum but I personally feel pretty good about it--to me, 2015 has already taken off to a great start. But that's just my opinion. :)

G.

Greenlaw
12-14-2014, 11:08 PM
Raining would be good news here. Well, unless you live on or at the bottom of a hill anyway.

G.

djwaterman
12-15-2014, 12:50 AM
Well there isn't a 'Yes but not right now' option in that poll so I couldn't vote.

lightscape
12-15-2014, 12:57 AM
'Yes but not right now'
That would be my vote.

erikals
12-15-2014, 04:59 AM
if so, that would be "yes, of course"

Oedo 808
12-15-2014, 05:15 AM
Was just about to say, the poll is for "Will you upgrade?", I think it safe to say if you upgraded before you came across the poll you can still put in a yes.



well, the votes as for how many that will upgrade have been declining, so it looks like it might hit 50%

50% will upgrade
50% will not, or wait

could be better... then again, could be worse too...

Well it might not be entirely representative, let's hope not. If it is, I had previously had the thought that if they needed more time to get a release out where changes were more apparent, there was going to be trouble from not having engaged with the community. Maybe if 2015 has a respectable .5 or such, Rob can plan to try and inject a little optimism around the same time.

jwiede
12-15-2014, 11:48 AM
Well it might not be entirely representative, let's hope not. If it is, I had previously had the thought that if they needed more time to get a release out where changes were more apparent, there was going to be trouble from not having engaged with the community. Maybe if 2015 has a respectable .5 or such, Rob can plan to try and inject a little optimism around the same time.

The results are implicitly biased towards "yes" results, because the segment of customers who've completely moved on aren't around to enter "no" votes -- it's an unavoidable structural bias in such polls. If you look into polling and survey practices, there's info on how to estimate the impact of such structural biases.

Oedo 808
12-15-2014, 12:37 PM
Certainly in the context of those who have as you say completely moved on from LightWave over a larger timeframe, no we won't get their input, though I think as they saw fit to move on before now and presently close to half of the current forum userbase are a "no", we can assume there would be a lot more "no" votes. I was wondering more about how much of the current userbase would have voted. As far as the forumites go, those who were around prior to the release of 2015 and decided against upgrading, I can't see the majority not having looked in a few times at least, but I could be wrong on that.

MarcusM
12-15-2014, 01:35 PM
If LightWave come from Russia it would cost now half price ;] That could be occasion.

hrgiger
12-15-2014, 01:42 PM
The results are implicitly biased towards "yes" results, because the segment of customers who've completely moved on aren't around to enter "no" votes -- it's an unavoidable structural bias in such polls. If you look into polling and survey practices, there's info on how to estimate the impact of such structural biases.

Well, a while back you said that NT lost you as a customer, yet here you are so all evidence to the contrary. :p

gerry_g
12-15-2014, 01:51 PM
If LightWave come from Russia it would cost now half price ;] That could be occasion.

And with a free Russian girlfriend too no doubt, all you have to do is give them your credit card number to log in for the download

MarcusM
12-15-2014, 01:54 PM
And with a free Russian girlfriend too no doubt, all you have to do is give them your credit card number to log in for the download

No, that's weird.

Oedo 808
12-15-2014, 01:56 PM
Well, a while back you said that NT lost you as a customer, yet here you are so all evidence to the contrary. :p

http://i.imgur.com/LoPIaMm.jpg

Lito
12-15-2014, 02:16 PM
I am going to upgrade for sure, just not sure when. Most likely not till 2015 after the holidays so I don't have the family gift buys along with the LW2015 upgrade. Don't want to say, here is your brand new spanking piece of coal, because I really wanted to upgrade to LW2015 ;).

Wickedpup
12-15-2014, 02:54 PM
Well, a while back you said that NT lost you as a customer, yet here you are so all evidence to the contrary. :p
I always thought there was a distinction between customer and user. Guess not. :stumped:

Oedo 808
12-15-2014, 03:11 PM
I always thought there was a distinction between customer and user. Guess not. :stumped:

There is, pointless semantics.

Although there is the possibility he meant that they lost his custom because he was so pleased with what they had released, he need never purchase any software ever again.

jwiede
12-15-2014, 10:07 PM
Well, a while back you said that NT lost you as a customer, yet here you are so all evidence to the contrary. :p

I'm still here because these are (still) the support forums for the products I already purchased from Newtek / LW3DG, obviously.

alexos
12-16-2014, 02:10 AM
The results are implicitly biased towards "yes" results, because the segment of customers who've completely moved on aren't around to enter "no" votes --

Err... Yeah? This reminds me of the following exchange:

Nobby Nobbs: There's a lot going on that we know nothing about, Sarge.
Fred Colon: Really? Name me one thing that's going on that you don't know about. See?! You can't, can you?

ADP.

prometheus
12-16-2014, 07:03 AM
Itīs great to see new lightwave clips showcasing the new features, thatīs all good.
I think however that in the future, the lightwave group should take in consideration to actually work out those before the release, I think it will attract people more and also get up and running to understand what is in the package, and also easier to test by them self within a proper trial period etc.

I understand that they were probably quite eager to get the release out as soon as possible, and also with regards to the demands of the community, but I would suggest this to the lightwave group, to make sure those "vids" are out before/at the same time the actual release of software..of course itīs a matter of time, but suspending the release a little longer...like a month or so to secure some good documentation and showcase clips..I think that can only be a good thing.

A reason to wait until after release could of course be that the lightwave group needs a little feedback first from us customer on what they want to see, but generally I believe it would be wise to do some stuff and release it at the same time as the software.

Lino just needs extra doses of free coffe, and then some extended vacation.:)

Michael

lwanmtr
12-16-2014, 02:20 PM
Yeah, Its good to be seeing the vids now...But I agree, having some at released would be better..specially for those who use the trial version...I've been plugging around in the dark basically with some of the new stuff.

Has there been a new release with some of the bigger bugs fixed? Maybe a slight trial license extension for those of us who grabbed it on day one, given that its been a wild buggy ride? hehe

jeric_synergy
12-16-2014, 10:31 PM
I'm not sure how much the people making the vids also have any coding/delivery tasks, but it seems a little much to want EVERYTHING all at once.

One thing I think would be do-able would be extremely basic videos "at delivery": drop the production values with a nod towards "yeah, pretty basic, but we're making this quickly so you users can get to it".

spherical
12-17-2014, 12:37 AM
Yeah, well, I happen to agree with Michael and Rob. If you're going to make a major move by releasing a new version, not a bug-fix, then it needs to be done at least with some attention paid to the hype/marketing part of it all; both to tout what is new and to showcase for prospective purchasers why this is a Good Thing to get into. When the release announcement hits is the time to have the major ducks in a row, as far as information about the new product goes.

Here it is.
Here's how it works.
Here's why it's a good thing for you.

Rolling out the latter two of those, days/weeks/months after the fact has little to zero effect; compared to having it all front and center on release day.... even a week or two prior. Nothing better than whetting the appetite. Tease everyone. At this point, so close to release, it isn't a Big Security Risk on the "What We Need To Keep Under Paranoid Close-Lipped Wraps" front. Too late for any competitors to react and develop any knockout punches at that point. Let fire and own the arena for the time. It will be fleeting, yes, but better fleeting than not at all.

ianr
12-17-2014, 05:18 AM
Yeah Spherical I couldn't agree better! Why don't you send this 2 Mr.Powers
with a soft covering E mail comment,like please could he pin it on the wall.

I have an idea ,i think with the exception of Ben's mighty work on the
Manual. I shall call LW2015......The Fireman's Edition.

hrgiger
02-18-2015, 03:16 PM
Finally got a chance to upgrade to LW 2015 today.

sudac20
02-18-2015, 04:25 PM
Finally got a chance to upgrade to LW 2015 today.

What do you think? It looks like a minimal upgrade.

erikals
02-18-2015, 04:49 PM
waiting for Siggraph... \ : )

hrgiger
02-18-2015, 05:07 PM
No, it's not the most significant LightWave upgrade I've seen but if you use bullet dynamics a lot, having the constraints makes that particular upgrade worthwhile. Genoma 2 is an improvement over the first version and with the addition of a better dynamic parenter and adding dynamics to bones adds some good new tools for animators. As a lot of my work is modeling right now, being able to render subdivision wireframes directly inside of LightWave instead of resorting to a plug-in is a welcome addition and it's nice being able to see the results directly in VPR. There were some good workflow enhancements added, a few of my favorite being the new morph HUD, double click deselect in modeler, and mouse wheel zoom in modeler. I had heard also that GoZ now supports sending multiple subtools but I haven't tried that yet.

I'm a bit disappointed that LW2015 seemed a bit unexpected and not any mention or hint of long awaited deeper changes inside of LightWave but I suppose we'll just have to continue to wait for those. You're right, compared to some other upgrades, LW 2015 appears to be a minimal upgrade but at the same time, we can't always expect them to give away eternal free upgrades. I upgraded because I want to keep my $395 charter pricing and I feel like I got more then my money's worth for the LW11 series so I would like to continue to support them, especially since they will probably be one of the few holdouts who doesn't go to a rental only scheme.

Greenlaw
02-18-2015, 06:08 PM
I think I posted my initial thoughts a while back but since then I've had a bit of time use 2015 on a few jobs, so...

I really like 2015. It's hard to explain just how nice this upgrade is to work with because many of the improvements have to do with workflow--that's a big deal when you use Lightwave nearly everyday for a living. That said, I do love some of the headliner features like the new Bullet Constraints. I'm sure other 2015 users have their own favorite features and improvements but here are some of mine:

Workflow improvements I like:

Double-clicking anywhere in Modeler's viewport may seem small but I recently had to go back to not having it, and it makes me nuts. Funny how quickly you get used to these things. The blue box that appears when you're editing morphs is really handy too...I'm so less likely ot mess up endomorphs now. I also like the new search filter that appears in many list windows now--makes it so much easier to find and select what I'm looking for. (Did find a bug in one though--guess I should report that.)

Fixes I like:

FiberFX has working motion vectors again! Yay! It also now works with multi-sample lights. Double-yay!

New features:

The new Bullet Constraints are fantastic. I recently used them to animate a long rope dangling form an vehicle and it looked very convincing. One issue I had was that it didn't work properly when attached to the vehicle animated on a spline, so I had to bake a path and then attach the rope to it. Worked perfectly after that. There are a few issues I need to report about it (cloth attached to the rope had issues, so I had to back a point on the end of the rope to make that work,) but for being so new, it really saved me a ton of time on that job.

I used the new Camera Perspective Match tool on a couple of jobs and that worked great too. This tool is meant for lock-offs only but it's still a huge timesaver. (You still need a tracker for moving camera footage.)

I like the new edge renderer features too. I don't have an immediate need for it yet but after playing around with it for a bit I'm already thinking about how to use it in a project later this year.

Clip Maps in the object file is a huge one for me. I use clip maps all the time and having them in the surfaces is much nicer to manage. This is another feature I had to do without not long ago, and it was painful. How quickly I get spoiled. :p

Camera Overscan came in useful recently too. I don't often need to do this but I've always had to whip out a calculator to figure out the values. Now it's just a couple of mouse clicks in the Camera panel.

VPR with Alpha has been really useful for putting together previs and animatics, especially when on the go without a render farm.

Maybe this first release of 2015 isn't the upgrade some users have been waiting for but, for me, it's been a worthwhile upgrade so far--just go back to 11.6.x after a few weeks of using 2015, and you'll know what I mean. And, yeah, this has been only the first release! (Remember where 11.0 started and where it ended?)

So what are the features other 2015 users really like?

G.

gerry_g
02-19-2015, 02:56 AM
the click in viewport to deselect as you have already mentioned, can't stress enough how much of a productivity boost that is, other modeller improvement I like more then I initially thought is the way the last set up for any given falloff you are using is saved in the panel, meaning that if you close it and then have second thoughts you can open it right back up again and the widget is still there where you left it and you carry on tweaking. Apart from that all of the above.

bazsa73
02-19-2015, 04:44 AM
let's deselect!

Greenlaw
02-19-2015, 07:00 AM
....other modeller improvement I like more then I initially thought is the way the last set up for any given falloff you are using is saved in the panel, meaning that if you close it and then have second thoughts you can open it right back up again and the widget is still there where you left it and you carry on tweaking. Apart from that all of the above.

Oh, yeah that one is hugely productive too. Funny, this feature initially made me nuts--I think it was maybe the Magnet tool. I wanted the falloff to reset like it did in the old version because I needed to drag out new single-axis ranges in different viewports and the new behavior just wasn't working for me. Then Deuce at LW3DG kindly pointed out to me that all I needed to do was right-click once (no drag) in a viewport to reset it. Much more efficient than what I had been doing so all happy now. (Thanks Deuce.) :)

G.

Marander
02-19-2015, 08:07 AM
What about VPR improvements? What drives me crazy sometimes in LW11.6.x is the white screen that appears before rendering the viewport. Can't this be fixed for LW 11.x? I'm not sure but I think I didn't notice it again in 2015 trial? Is VPR much faster? What about handling millions of polys? This should be taken care of within the 'under the hood changes' or not?

erikals
02-19-2015, 08:12 AM
What about handling millions of polys? This should be taken care of within the 'under the hood changes' or not?
no, it's some other under-the-hood changes afaik... haven't heard LightWave 2015 being faster...

Lewis
02-19-2015, 08:36 AM
What about handling millions of polys? This should be taken care of within the 'under the hood changes' or not?

Define "handling" :)?

Marander
02-19-2015, 08:48 AM
I mean the sluggish ui response in Modeler and Layout when a certain amount amount of polys is reached, even if there's enough RAM. For example multishift on a large model in subd. OpenGL is still fast enough to smoothly turn the object but editing the geometry is slow. In Layout simple operations like modifying light or camera properties with many objects, again independently from OpenGL or VPR.

Lewis
02-19-2015, 09:03 AM
Ahh that, well yes thats still "same".

hrgiger
02-19-2015, 10:16 AM
Ahh that, well yes thats still "same".

Disappointingly so!

Marander
02-20-2015, 04:33 AM
Disappointingly so!

Yes that's a bit disappointing but thanks for the answers.

Nevertheless I found (now in demo mode) that VPR in 2015 is reacting faster and the white screen flash only appeared once very quickly. When restarting 2015 and switching to VPR I didn't notice a white screen anymore. Anyway tested without geometry. But in 11.6.x the white screen always appears before building the VPR review which is annoying in a dark room.

Snosrap
02-20-2015, 10:20 AM
I was going to upgrade this weekend too, but I just got an e-mail from Sony on a sweet upgrade to Vegas Pro 13 Suite that includes Hitfilm 3 Pro so I'm going to jump on that instead. Maybe next month I'll get on board with 2015. I've been using it at work since it's release and I must say it's real solid. I think this was the workflow enhancement upgrade, as there really isn't much new in the package, but the enhancements are welcome. I made great use of the Match Perspective tool the first week I had it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci4_ar0S7mk&list=UUdW2Z6_JwrAbCwC806s0tJg

With the final result here: http://www.sauderboutique.com/Home.aspx

Nicolas Jordan
02-21-2015, 11:06 AM
I mean the sluggish ui response in Modeler and Layout when a certain amount amount of polys is reached, even if there's enough RAM. For example multishift on a large model in subd. OpenGL is still fast enough to smoothly turn the object but editing the geometry is slow. In Layout simple operations like modifying light or camera properties with many objects, again independently from OpenGL or VPR.

Based on my experience this is even worse with large projects in other programs including Modo. I worked on a project in Modo recently where I had time to take a couple sips of coffee waiting for the program to respond after clicking to select an item.

erikals
02-21-2015, 11:23 AM
some LW speed hint videos here, no solution, but could help at times...
https://www.youtube.com/user/erikalst/search?query=speed

jeric_synergy
02-21-2015, 02:38 PM
Based on my experience this is even worse with large projects in other programs including Modo. I worked on a project in Modo recently where I had time to take a couple sips of coffee waiting for the program to respond after clicking to select an item.
It's "the grass is greener" syndrome.

Nicolas Jordan
02-22-2015, 09:58 AM
I finally decided to upgrade to 2015. I plan on doing 90% of my work in Lightwave again. I've never missed a Lightwave upgrade and look forward to rendering in Lightwave again especially now that it has the per surface clip maps and environment importance sampling.

jasonwestmas
02-23-2015, 01:10 AM
I finally decided to upgrade to 2015. I plan on doing 90% of my work in Lightwave again. I've never missed a Lightwave upgrade and look forward to rendering in Lightwave again especially now that it has the per surface clip maps and environment importance sampling.

I missed LW 1-6 :( ;)

erikals
02-23-2015, 01:29 AM
I missed LW 1-6    :( ;)

hah! me too... !    http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/biggrin.gif http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

Triodin
02-23-2015, 01:36 AM
With the final result here: http://www.sauderboutique.com/Home.aspx

BTW - That is awesome!

lwanmtr
02-23-2015, 02:10 PM
Started on Modeler3D/Videoscape3D, then 2.0, the only one I missed was 10

lightscape
02-25-2015, 05:22 PM
Double click deselect? Didn't like it. Modelling fast and using that will have RSI, and with lightwave having no undo for selection its double wammy.
I've had deselect mapped to "q" since lw 9.

Lewis
02-25-2015, 05:35 PM
Double click deselect? Didn't like it. Modelling fast and using that will have RSI, and with lightwave having no undo for selection its double wammy.
I've had deselect mapped to "q" since lw 9.

LW 2015.2 now has Dobleclick deselect as menu option (On/Off checkmark) and it has new drop/restore selection tool (way of selection undo) so all that is covered/fixed now and flexible :).

erikals
02-25-2015, 06:02 PM
that's good, using a Wacom i think i'm unlikely to use the double-click feature,
think i'll stick to the middle-click option i currently use...

that said, the 2015 deselect method might be a very nice option when using a mouse... \ : )

Snosrap
02-25-2015, 09:58 PM
BTW - That is awesome!
Thanks!

gerry_g
02-26-2015, 03:10 AM
Most Wacom users have their rocker button set to Control at the back and Double Click at the front by default, over the years this is the commonest set of options I've seen advocated on forums for most efficient use, so the option to double click to deselect executed as an air click as opposed to just tapping (a single click) to execute a deselection seems relatively free from the possibility of RSI injury to me

VermilionCat
02-26-2015, 03:59 AM
Schematic view acquired performance boost? It feels smoother to me. But text looks blurry... Any thought?