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View Full Version : Camera Selector, very unstable with changing resolutions.



quilmequick
12-03-2014, 04:33 AM
Hello all,

We have been using camera selector (both versions CS and UCS) at work for years and most of the time it works well but with scenes where the camera resolution changes between camera, it is almost guaranteed to crash on render, with no work around.

We use a lot of shift and advanced cameras, sometimes 100s, and it seems to be that the resolution switching or frame size makes LW crash.

We have had the issue on and off since v9 and are now running v11.6x with no improvement. It doesn't always crash with the the first resolution change but will crash at a random later frame with a res change. It's unpredictable which frame it will crash on before the render, but it will always crash again on the same frame, when re-rendered.

There are a few solutions that can be used to switch the cameras automatically but none of them (that I know of) allow for resolution changes.

Has anyone else had these issues and does anyone have a quick to set up workaround or fix?

Thanks

Quil

bobakabob
12-03-2014, 12:21 PM
Have you reported this to LW3DG as a bug in your Newtek account? I'm curious as to why you would want to change camera resolution in this way? The software shouldn't crash of course, but it does seem a very unusual step which the bug fixers may have missed as few users would have discovered it. Hope you get this resolved soon.

Sanchon
12-05-2014, 01:24 AM
This is a known bug from many years. Another problem is when camera have different zoom factor and the same resolution that previous camera - zoom factor will be locked to the first camera.

Sensei
12-05-2014, 03:19 AM
LW renderer probably allocates image buffer using initial camera resolution from start frame. And then doesn't allocate new one.
Try using as the biggest camera resolution in that frame to see whether it helps.

BTW, I have made Camera Selector Baker plugin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NbzvJUye9A
See video tutorial and read description.

quilmequick
12-05-2014, 07:43 AM
Have you reported this to LW3DG as a bug in your Newtek account? I'm curious as to why you would want to change camera resolution in this way? The software shouldn't crash of course, but it does seem a very unusual step which the bug fixers may have missed as few users would have discovered it. Hope you get this resolved soon.

Hi bobakabob

We do a lot of planning views in London, where there is a mixture of panoramic camera matches, which all end up different resolutions when stitched. There are also a mixture of landscape and portrait shift matches and standard lens matches with the panoramas. We also use older plates that were shot on 5dmkii and newer ones that are shot on the 5mkiii. Also mixtures of cameras that are subcontracted out at random resolutions. Some of our plates/jobs are 5+ years old but still in use with newer plates. We have over 5000 cameras that we have matched in London alone. So as you can imagine over the years, it would be impossible to keep them all the same resolution.

Thanks.

quilmequick
12-05-2014, 07:45 AM
This is a known bug from many years. Another problem is when camera have different zoom factor and the same resolution that previous camera - zoom factor will be locked to the first camera.

Yeah, we've always suffered with it, but as we are trying to automate more and more, it is becoming more of a gripe in our, otherwise smooth workflow.

quilmequick
12-05-2014, 07:48 AM
LW renderer probably allocates image buffer using initial camera resolution from start frame. And then doesn't allocate new one.
Try using as the biggest camera resolution in that frame to see whether it helps.

BTW, I have made Camera Selector Baker plugin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NbzvJUye9A


See video tutorial and read description.

Hi Sensei,

Yeah we found your script, and I've put it forward to our management, so we'll see what happens. I mentioned your work around in my bug report, so hopefully your on the right track, it sounds very plausible. I will test your workaround next week and let you know if it works.

Thanks for your help.

Sensei
12-05-2014, 12:48 PM
I will test your workaround next week and let you know if it works.

I tried making 640x480 camera first, second in sequence 1920x1080, instant crash.
Reversed them, the same crash.
It works only when they have the same width and height.

So baking them is the only way to be able to render, I can see..
But this way, you will have them all the same size. You know.

Jarno
12-05-2014, 06:15 PM
Switching resolution during an animation is not supported. I can't even imagine how that would have to be handled when, for example, rendering to an AVI. Although people have managed to find ways around it, it has never been the intention for LightWave to support camera switching.

---JvdL---

ernpchan
12-05-2014, 07:07 PM
If we could have render globals per camera that would address this.

3dworks
12-06-2014, 03:15 AM
yes please fix this script, it is vital for us archviz people if we render multiple stills form a scene. using render-q for this purpose has always been much less straightforward.

to make ALL camera parameters animatable from within layout could help as well. but then still some third party cameras maybe would not be usable in this situation and there would be no way to mix different camera types.

Sensei
12-06-2014, 04:20 AM
If we could have render globals per camera that would address this.

That has nothing to do with that..

quilmequick
12-09-2014, 02:53 AM
Switching resolution during an animation is not supported. I can't even imagine how that would have to be handled when, for example, rendering to an AVI. Although people have managed to find ways around it, it has never been the intention for LightWave to support camera switching.

---JvdL---

I suppose thinking about it in term of animation instead of single frames being outputted it makes sense that it may not work. It's a real shame that it doesn't work because it is actually a really really powerful tool that no other software offers with such ease of set up.

From a layman's perspective it doesn't actually sound like it would be that hard to implement. You would need a warning if writing to a video format. Or a dialogue that warns of resolution changes within the sequence.

It really is a useful tool that makes LW invaluable in Arch Viz and Planning analysis.

Sensei
12-09-2014, 05:15 AM
I suppose thinking about it in term of animation instead of single frames being outputted it makes sense that it may not work. It's a real shame that it doesn't work because it is actually a really really powerful tool that no other software offers with such ease of set up.

From a layman's perspective it doesn't actually sound like it would be that hard to implement. You would need a warning if writing to a video format. Or a dialogue that warns of resolution changes within the sequence.

It really is a useful tool that makes LW invaluable in Arch Viz and Planning analysis.

The thing is that frame buffer is allocated once, while starting rendering.
Then previously allocated frame buffer is just reused.
Another thing is that just too many things depends on resolution.
Like for instance GI cache (min-max spacing is in pixels).

The only sensible solution I proposed in Private Message to you.

Nicolas Jordan
01-08-2015, 10:03 PM
I'm running into this issue right now on a large arch-viz project that is due soon where I have to render 10 stills at various resolutions and zooms. I have done scenes like this in Modo before with no problems since you can keyframe the camera resolution in Modo as well as many other settings that you can't in Lightwave so Modo has no need for a hack type of plugin like "Camera Selector" for switching between cameras. It would be nice if these camera settings could be key framed in Lightwave.

Sanchon
01-09-2015, 01:02 AM
Modo has nice features but the most crucial for my work are still much better in Lightwave. If you working with large arch-viz scene it probably will not be able to perform in Modo because Modo has problems with such types of scenes. This is not only my opinion but many people from Modo forum.

It shader tree is terrible when scene has big amount of objects and replicators. Modo can be really slow, unstable and it's realtime previewer sluggish like hell. It has very limited instance-replicator system in the terms of placement and editing possibility, viewing, viewport handling compared to LightWave.

I bought Modo 801 5 months ago and now I'm selling it back.

Nicolas Jordan
01-09-2015, 07:52 AM
Modo has nice features but the most crucial for my work are still much better in Lightwave. If you working with large arch-viz scene it probably will not be able to perform in Modo because Modo has problems with such types of scenes. This is not only my opinion but many people from Modo forum.

It shader tree is terrible when scene has big amount of objects and replicators. Modo can be really slow, unstable and it's realtime previewer sluggish like hell. It has very limited instance-replicator system in the terms of placement and editing possibility, viewing, viewport handling compared to LightWave.

I bought Modo 801 5 months ago and now I'm selling it back.

I have done many large projects in Modo in the past and I will have to make a decision soon if I'm going to take this one back into Modo for final rendering. You are right about the shader tree, it can be a nightmare to work in especially with large scenes that have lots of surfaces. The shader tree requires constant organization over the course of a project otherwise things can get out of hand quickly and unwanted rendering problems can occur. It has taken me many years to understand and control the shader tree effectively for large complex projects. This is one of the reasons I decided to do the current project I'm working on in Lightwave.

Well it looks like I will be taking this project back into Modo to finish it so I can set the stills to render overnight without having to worry about crashes and baby sitting it all night having to F9 each render manually. My Lightwave adventure is over for now.

Sanchon
01-09-2015, 11:57 AM
Well it looks like I will be taking this project back into Modo to finish it so I can set the stills to render overnight without having to worry about crashes and baby sitting it all night having to F9 each render manually. My Lightwave adventure is over for now.

Maybe scenes queue, Render-Q will help ? One scene = one camera = one frame.

Nicolas Jordan
01-10-2015, 09:25 AM
Maybe scenes queue, Render-Q will help ? One scene = one camera = one frame.

I thought about splitting camera views up into different scenes but I'm going to go with what I know for sure works for now to get this project finished quickly. I already wasted to much time trying to figure out some of these issues and cannot afford to dedicate more time to them with a deadline looming. When I have more time I will explore other options like the one that you have mentioned and maybe come up with a workflow that I can rely on for production.