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sukardi
11-27-2014, 05:31 PM
I just want to congratulate LW3DG for bringing us the all new 2015 manual in pdf. Lately when even The Foundry has been going the online manual route, I still find pdf manuals to be the most useful format of all.

If you haven't checked it out yet - it is only 2303 pages long. Epic work ...

wesleycorgi
11-27-2014, 05:42 PM
+1 :)

spherical
11-27-2014, 06:07 PM
Yes, having it all pulled together in one file is a great help. I'd never successfully pick which of the segments to try to search on when the question had to do with Layout. When it was a series of "what's new" files across a few versions -- based upon v10, it made finding an answer all the more difficult. Good Job.

prometheus
11-27-2014, 06:25 PM
yes..the manual is extensive, and that is a lot of work put in to that, that´s great.
However...I was under the impression that it now was accessable with the online help buttons in lightwave, with a completly new system to search etc online? maybe I was wrong..or maybe that is planned for later on?

It´s great anyway to see the overhaul of it and a good job done.

spherical
11-27-2014, 08:48 PM
It is. They Borked the as-installed location. Move the PDF from /Docs into the /Docs/Help directory. Loads right up.

prometheus
11-27-2014, 08:54 PM
It is. They Borked the as-installed location. Move the PDF from /Docs into the /Docs/Help directory. Loads right up.

yes I know I can do that, but that wasn´t Exactly what I ment, part of it maybe with regards to using the help button to acess the doc, but I know how to do that, the question was if they had implemented Online docs in html form or similar, not pdf? no biggie, I just wanted to know if there was some new type of documentation online that I wasn´t aware of.

spherical
11-27-2014, 09:35 PM
Online has its place. When your Net connection is hosed in the middle of a job and there's no projection on how long it will take to get the router hardware repaired and restarted, the local PDF is invaluable. If said PDF has all of the current data, that's all you need. Of course, it needs to have periodic updates in order to stay current. ...And I mean dedicated attention paid to fixing typos, omissions, ambiguities and the like; not only new stuff -- which is obviously very important in and of itself. This manual is a leap in the right direction. The momentum needs to be maintained.

JamesCurtis
11-27-2014, 09:46 PM
I agree that the new PDF is well done. However, I do think that a great number of the interface shots need to be updated. Many of them are from various versions of LW. The look because of this is inconsistent. But it IS a giant leap forward nonetheless.

spherical
11-27-2014, 11:01 PM
BeeVee also mentioned in another thread that perhaps it would be good to universally identify where to find all of the tools in the UI, as each tool is described in the docs. This would be VERY helpful, as some of the tools are deeply buried in submenus. However, this needs to be done for all of the menu presets. I always default to the Studio Production version, which one would think would contain all of the tools that the lesser menu types possess, plus more advanced tools; but it does not. Tools in the default menu are found in different places or are non-existent in Studio Production. So, you have to go searching for where to access them.

jeric_synergy
11-28-2014, 12:12 AM
My worry is (and has been for years) that resources will not be allocated to:


correcting errors and ommisions
examining METRICS of which part of the dox get consulted repeatedly
updating images
adding links to online content that arises after the dox are finalized (which really, should be 'never')

Which many a forum user would do FOR FREE. No matter how good a job BeeVee did, and I'm sure it's excellent, there will always be better ways to explain things, multiple ways to explain things, and new examples that could be referenced.

prometheus
11-28-2014, 01:00 AM
I like pdf´s to some degree, and great to put it in your cellular phone for viewing during busride or waiting somewhere, not sure about searching functions it it though, when it reaches thousands of pages it feels slow, not sure if it actually would be faster on html pages ..maybe not since you also have do rely on your isp provider speed and also the webhotel/page itself, and with rememberance of some very slow forum responses over here, I don´t know.
I do like the houdini online help, the thing with that page is that is more adapted to wide screen and may offer better ways to showcase images, and linking.
https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini13.0/news/12_5/fx

Michael

prometheus
11-28-2014, 01:10 AM
One thing that I miss in the pdf´s though, not sure if I have missed some, that is linking to other tools, that would of course be quite an undertaking, but some stuff should perhaps be able to link to each other, also..since the lw group has it´s youtube channel, I think it could work in unision and more effective if the help system has links to for example fracture tutorial clips.

I looked at the fracture section, but that was not much in there, just basic explanation and one image, that isn´t covering it in a good way, they could link to youtube sites, and if you ctrl click you could be sent there.

Lightwiki was promising but I think it turned into something else than a good tool wiki page? here´s fracture ..but no written coverage, just the link to Linos description, they should have Rob´s tips too in there.
http://www.lightwiki.com/tutorials/dynimacs/item/288-lightwave-11-fracture-and-bullet#.VHgsaMnTqkI

Michael

JohnMarchant
11-28-2014, 01:46 AM
BeeVee also mentioned in another thread that perhaps it would be good to universally identify where to find all of the tools in the UI, as each tool is described in the docs. This would be VERY helpful, as some of the tools are deeply buried in submenus. However, this needs to be done for all of the menu presets. I always default to the Studio Production version, which one would think would contain all of the tools that the lesser menu types possess, plus more advanced tools; but it does not. Tools in the default menu are found in different places or are non-existent in Studio Production. So, you have to go searching for where to access them.

Agreed and whilst they are at it the menu presets need updating. Do away with all the old versions. Give us 10, 11, 2015 and maybe a studio version. I cant remember how many times i selected one and found that half the plugins/scripts are not even in it. All of those presets should have all the native plugins/scrips allocated.

BeeVee
11-28-2014, 02:23 AM
Hi all,

Thanks for your comments on the documentation. It has been a long slog, but all worthwhile when I hear it is useful. Let me take your points like some kind of panel show:

Spherical mentioned having to sort through all the What's New elements between different docs and I agree it was a pain. That's why each addendum contained and replaced the last, so you'd only need to look in the 10.1 and latest addendum but even so, not ideal. 2015 has a pair of what's new pages that regroups all the elements new to 2015.

Prometheus talked about online help. In future versions there will be a wiki-based documentation that will be relevant to the button you are hovering over or clicked into (some of the work we've been doing). I probably shouldn't mention that, it might get me killed, but it's very exciting for me as a Light|Wave user and also its documenter.

James Curtis mentioned that there was a mix of different versions in the docs. Absolutely right but there are some 4000 images through the docs and I've been replacing them where I could or absolutely had to (because the tool was changed), but there are still older, brighter interface pictures. They will all go eventually, I just need a little more time.

spherical talked about universal identification. Apart from the wiki that will go straight to the docs for the button you are in, I *do* need to do more on this. For instance, you can see that Parenter is something new to 2015 in the What's new, so you go there, but the page itself doesn't say anything about where the tool is located, so I need a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) with each tool while we're still in offline PDF mode. I'm thinking hard about it and wondering if each should have a little grid under the title with this URL and the keyboard shortcut.

Jeric is always concentrated on the docs and brings up several points:
correcting errors and ommisions - has been done since the 11 docs, since first I was brought on the team (and it's "omissions" ;))
examining METRICS of which part of the dox get consulted repeatedly - this is difficult with an offline PDF but is part of the planning for the wiki along with other things...
updating images - already mentioned
adding links to online content that arises after the dox are finalized (which really, should be 'never') jeric - part of what I was trying to do with this PDF was embed YouTube videos. It can certainly be done, but there were several reasons why I chose not to do it in the end. However, the links in the PDF are live and clickable, as are the cross-references to other pages.

Prometheus mentioned LightWiki - this was actually my baby. I started it and still actually maintain the LightWave history although Steph Scott (Online Render on here) has made the site something incredible now and the wiki side of it is minor.

John Marchant mentioned Menu presets - I guess it's normal that the older menu presets don't have the latest tools in them, they are there to aid people used to an older version. That said, I don't personally see much utility in them.

Anyroadup, that's more writing than I've done in a week now that I've "finished" the docs so I'm quite puffed out :D One of the other things I'd like to point out is that the docs for 11.6 are 373 pages long and are 59.2 MB. These are 2302 pages long and not much bigger (it's why they are in the installer and it's also why the installer is so much more rapid on Windows and Mac. When we had the outdated Robohelp the installer needed to uncompress and copy thousands of little files rather than one PDF). I'm quite proud of that :D

All the best,

B

jeric_synergy
11-28-2014, 08:52 AM
correcting errors and ommisions - has been done since the 11 docs, since first I was brought on the team (and it's "omissions" ;))
That was a test. Subtle, no? ;)

( yeah, I always duff that word )

The 'online' help you mention sound very encouraging, like an internet-enhanced balloon help. I hope it's layered, with a quick 'noodge' level, followed by the more extensive wiki-type material you mentioned.

MONTHLY updates of the PDF would be grand, even if it's just the very mechanical "48 images have been updated" type of update.

If some aspect of the documentation is regularly refreshed with pointers to tutorials and discussions that illuminate the subject at hand, well, my vision of 'dynamic documentation' would be a reality.

ianr
11-28-2014, 09:54 AM
Him now renamed : Ben 'MOSES' Vost

(coming to a tablet near you soon!)



Big Up's Big-Man:thumbsup:

spherical
11-28-2014, 04:26 PM
Spherical mentioned having to sort through all the What's New elements between different docs and I agree it was a pain. That's why each addendum contained and replaced the last, so you'd only need to look in the 10.1 and latest addendum but even so, not ideal. 2015 has a pair of what's new pages that regroups all the elements new to 2015.

Now that I know that this is the case (don't remember reading anywhere that this is how it worked), I'll happily whack all of the interim ones. Do like that the new stuff is in BOLD in the Contents panel in each of the versions, including the 2015.

ncr100
11-28-2014, 07:06 PM
...
spherical talked about universal identification. Apart from the wiki that will go straight to the docs for the button you are in, I *do* need to do more on this. For instance, you can see that Parenter is something new to 2015 in the What's new, so you go there, but the page itself doesn't say anything about where the tool is located, so I need a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) with each tool while we're still in offline PDF mode. I'm thinking hard about it and wondering if each should have a little grid under the title with this URL and the keyboard shortcut.
...

Finding tools is a common enough desire for me I requested a feature for it: https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?52343_j2u5pqog This would be similar to how the new Pattern Search thingy in Surface Editor works, but in the main screen. Jeric and others cooked up some hotkey magic to do something similar here http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?143862-AHK-script-make-quot-Search-quot-key-for-LW-LWM and here http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?143588-quot-Find-Tool-quot-possible

Don't get murdered!

3dworks
11-30-2014, 04:29 AM
congrats to ben for the good work done on this - really makes our lives easier in those moments when you would need precise information in a short time and have no more nerves to use the search function in the forums... ;-)

+1 for both offline one document PDF and fast search optimized online wiki formats!

and i agree that a tool browser in modeler and layout would be awesome as well...

chers

markus

inkpen3d
11-30-2014, 11:46 AM
The huge amount of effort that's obviously gone into bringing the LW documentation up to scratch is greatly appreciated and deserves a standing ovation to all involved. It's a immensely useful resource.

Snosrap
11-30-2014, 10:02 PM
Yes the manual is pretty good, but why is there so many 8 - 9.6 screenshots? BeeVee, can it really be that hard to go through the manual and every time you see an old image replace it with one from LW 2015? :)

prometheus
11-30-2014, 11:39 PM
Yes the manual is pretty good, but why is there so many 8 - 9.6 screenshots? BeeVee, can it really be that hard to go through the manual and every time you see an old image replace it with one from LW 2015? :)

I think it´s a lot of work to do, but I agree it should perhaps be done, but I am not sure if beevee also have a completly new online system in the works, maybe a backtrack is needed anyway and put in the pdf´s and from there it will serve
as the general resources anyway?

just wanted to check particle documentation, and the image shown are an older one, in the section there is the rotation tab, but the image is so old that it doesn´t have that tab.
particle documentaion should also cover record frame step.

Michael

omichon
12-01-2014, 01:52 AM
Yes, great job done on the documentation for sure. Thanks for that Ben :)
Regarding outdated pictures, you can add ClothFX to the list (with missing "T" buttons on page 877). It is not very clear (to me at least) what is the difference between using the T button or the FX dropdown menu. The picture on page 876 is also wrong (showing FX Gravity interface instead of Cloth FX).
Don't know if this thread could be the right place to report this kind of issues, though.

prometheus
12-01-2014, 01:59 AM
Yes, great job done on the documentation for sure. Thanks for that Ben :)
Regarding outdated pictures, you can add ClothFX to the list (with missing "T" buttons on page 877). It is not very clear (to me at least) what is the difference between using the T button or the FX dropdown menu. The picture on page 876 is also wrong (showing FX Gravity interface instead of Cloth FX).
Don't know if this thread could be the right place to report this kind of issues, though.

We do in fact have a special dedicated section for that....
http://forums.newtek.com/forumdisplay.php?182-LW-Documentation-Discussions

and one of us has already started one there, so this thread should actually be merged to that one or placed in that section

omichon
12-01-2014, 02:06 AM
Doh! never paid attention to it. Thanks Prometheus.

Snosrap
12-01-2014, 06:52 AM
Thanks Prometheus.

BeeVee
12-02-2014, 03:30 AM
Hi all,

A lot of the older pictures were left for the sake of time, if they still worked and were too awkward to quickly replace, but part of my ongoing work is to replace everything - just because the docs are out does not mean my work is done :) As for the addendum being updated, I could have sworn I put a thing on the cover of the addendum post 11.5, but looking now I don't see it D'Oh!

What Jeric said about community involvement is very true, and reporting bugs with the documentation formally is the best way of bringing them to my attention so I can fix. Now that we have a bug reporting mechanism available from your account page on lightwave3d.com it's more easy than it has ever been.

B

MarcusM
12-02-2014, 03:42 AM
I am curious what doing file "current.html" in LightWave_2015\support\changelog\ ? ;]

Snosrap
12-02-2014, 06:59 AM
Hi all,

A lot of the older pictures were left for the sake of time, if they still worked and were too awkward to quickly replace, but part of my ongoing work is to replace everything - just because the docs are out does not mean my work is done :) As for the addendum being updated, I could have sworn I put a thing on the cover of the addendum post 11.5, but looking now I don't see it D'Oh!

What Jeric said about community involvement is very true, and reporting bugs with the documentation formally is the best way of bringing them to my attention so I can fix. Now that we have a bug reporting mechanism available from your account page on lightwave3d.com it's more easy than it has ever been.

B

Thanks BeeVee. Other than the old pics the docs are really good. My concern about the pics is for new users as stuff like that can be a bit disorientating for a beginner, plus it looks somewhat unprofessional. :thumbsup: Thanks for being on top of it.

caustics
12-02-2014, 02:01 PM
The manual is really great! ... I copied it to my iPad from where I have access to it all the time, whereever I am.

My favourite reading at the moment.

Regards.

JamesCurtis
12-02-2014, 03:44 PM
One thing that I've had hard thing finding out was getting a 3d Nvidia setup working in LW. Not much info on line or in the manual. I have a 2 3d monitor setup and want desperately to get it working. Any additional info would be greatly appreciated. I have a 770 video card.

BeeVee
12-03-2014, 04:25 AM
if it's a Geforce you can only do full-screen 3D. If you have a Quadro you can use it windowed. There's no reason there's a difference other than NVidia wanting you to upgrade.

B

jeric_synergy
12-03-2014, 08:02 PM
Don't bother regrabbing them: just clone out that text. Wallaugh!

BeeVee
12-04-2014, 01:55 AM
Jeric you make my eyes hurt! :D It's not " Wallaugh" or "Walla" or Viola", it's "voila". If you want to be precise there's an accent grave on the a - voilà - but if you even get the right letters that will be a massive improvement... :D

B

jeric_synergy
12-04-2014, 02:04 AM
It's my thang 'n I ain't a' changin' it! :D

'Interesting' factoids: I own a viola. I've been to Walla Walla. There are Wallaugh families in PA and WA (Pennsylvania and Washington, where I live).

---Coincidence? YES!

OnlineRender
12-04-2014, 02:25 AM
Jeric you make my eyes hurt! :D It's not " Wallaugh" or "Walla" or Viola", it's "voila". If you want to be precise there's an accent grave on the a - voilà - but if you even get the right letters that will be a massive improvement... :D

B

I must blow your mind :D

BeeVee
12-04-2014, 02:30 AM
:D Hey you have two excuses - you're Scoatish and dyslexic...

B

OnlineRender
12-04-2014, 11:28 AM
:D Hey you have two excuses - you're Scoatish and dyslexic...

B

"Scoatish" :) , I would consider them both my strong points :D

ncr100
12-08-2014, 04:16 PM
ow ow ow

jbrookes
01-27-2018, 08:52 PM
Does anyone know the link to the PDF of the LightWave 2015 manual?

gar26lw
01-27-2018, 09:11 PM
Does anyone know the link to the PDF of the LightWave 2015 manual?

id imagine it would be in your user account, alongside lw exe downloads

jbrookes
01-27-2018, 10:07 PM
id imagine it would be in your user account, alongside lw exe downloads

Nope. Just the change lists.

Anyone?

scallahan1
01-27-2018, 11:16 PM
Hi,

Just read another old thread. When you install the 2015 version, look in the install directory for a "docs" directory. There's a PDF file inside. :)

Steve

jbrookes
01-28-2018, 03:42 AM
Hi,

Just read another old thread. When you install the 2015 version, look in the install directory for a "docs" directory. There's a PDF file inside. :)

Steve

Well, how awesome is that...

Thanks!

jbrookes
01-29-2018, 12:09 PM
On a somewhat related note, in the LW 2018 on-line docs, is anyone else finding that the "Found a Bug" and "Feature request" links are both not working? In my case, nothing happens when I click on either of them (on two different computers so far):

https://docs.lightwave3d.com/display/LW2018/Global+Illumination+tab

DogBoy
01-29-2018, 12:51 PM
Does it not open the LW2018 bug reporter app?

jbrookes
01-29-2018, 12:56 PM
So it works for you?

Do you have to have LW open for it to work?

jeric_synergy
01-29-2018, 01:51 PM
If you can't get it to work, I'd call that a bug in itself. Presumably you can still use the form on your account page to report it.

Snosrap
01-29-2018, 06:21 PM
Works here.

DogBoy
01-30-2018, 01:21 AM
So it works for you?

Do you have to have LW open for it to work?

No, the website should bring up a pop up asking if it can open the app

139848

BeeVee
01-30-2018, 02:11 PM
The Feedback Agent only works with a licensed version of LightWave 2018.x. It won't work in Discovery mode.

B

jeric_synergy
01-30-2018, 05:06 PM
Seems like making a notice to that effect when a 'Discoverer' tries it would be the logical path.

jwiede
01-30-2018, 10:06 PM
The Feedback Agent only works with a licensed version of LightWave 2018.x. It won't work in Discovery mode.

B

Seems like there needs to be a fallback, as some users prefer to keep their LW "stations" off the internet, and would be stuck in that case (they could still access docs from a different machine, but wouldn't be able to comment without putting LW "station" on internet). Maybe offer a form-based mail gateway option or such?