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View Full Version : Interesting. My comment was deleted from Lightwave's Facebook page.



TrueSongMedia
11-27-2014, 05:08 PM
...and now I've been blocked from commenting on their Facebook page.

I had posted a comment asking if/when Rounder would be fixed any time soon. (Yes, I was nice). Rounder has been broken since (at LEAST) Lightwave 9 - random errors, etc. Not only is my comment GONE, I've been blocked from the page. Very interesting.

Newtek, how about instead of ignoring problems, you start listening to your customers! You've done this to lots of us.

EDIT: COMMENT WAS NOT DELETED. Facebook just glitched. Boy I feel like an idiot now. Ha.

Megalodon2.0
11-27-2014, 05:17 PM
Facebook glitching? Nah... That's impossible.:D

That garbage happens to me all of the time.

Pensart
11-27-2014, 06:50 PM
To be honest, its an impressive list they presented. It won't take long before i place my order. Rigging will be so much more fun to do. Those perspective helpers are very nice to have. Not to mention the other enhancements (yeah!). I'm not that disappointed of the road they have chosen to follow, adding new functionality in layout and not focusing on the modeler. I also hoped to see a lot of fixed and new modeling features but... At least they are making great progress in the layout part. You have to realise that they have to make decisions and i think they choose this route since LWcad that could fix up the gap. And if you buy a LWCad license to go with it. Then u will have a very rock solid production suite. Since LWCad is IMHO way mightier than modo or blender or whatever (at this moment). Its debatable but you have to admit LWcad look awesome! So invest in that so much more value. I don't have LWCad or even ever played with it. But if you would lookup some movies, U will be impressed. My only question at this moment is if i would upgrade lw or buy LWCad or even both at the same time? Christmas is coming up ;)

Gungho3D
11-27-2014, 09:22 PM
...

I had posted a comment asking if/when Rounder would be fixed any time soon. (Yes, I was nice). Rounder has been broken since (at LEAST) Lightwave 9 - random errors, etc.
...

Hey TrueSongMedia

I've been having success with Rounder on some fairly intense models. It has taken a while to figure out where it will fail and why, and most (I'm not saying all) issues have been resolvable.

If you are able to post an example (screen capture or model) I'm happy to have a look.

Cheers,
Gung

Lewis
11-27-2014, 11:13 PM
You have to realise that they have to make decisions and i think they choose this route since LWcad that could fix up the gap. And if you buy a LWCad license to go with it. Then u will have a very rock solid production suite. Since LWCad is IMHO way mightier than modo or blender or whatever (at this moment). Its debatable but you have to admit LWcad look awesome! So invest in that so much more value.

No LWCAd (which is great plugin) or any other plugin can solve fundamental problem of Modeler which is SLOWNESS of mesh system.

achilles
11-28-2014, 12:32 AM
No LWCAd (which is great plugin) or any other plugin can solve fundamental problem of Modeler which is SLOWNESS of mesh system.

Could anyone tell me which good polygonal modeler soft can use instead of the LW one? Without spending too much, of course.
I tryied some (blender, shade3d, silo, Exagon, NVil and others) but all of them lack in some functionality. LW modeler has, for me, too much tools that often are similar and a quite "old" and not friendly interface.
Do you think it's better to wait that NT revamp and re-design it?
I'm an hobbyst and not spend too much time with 3d graphic (my job let me only few weekly hours for my interests) so i think my opinion is not so important.
Thanks and sorry for my italian-english

gerry_g
11-28-2014, 04:06 AM
I think Lewis has put his finger on the key problem, it's the way LW Modeler databases and manages its assets internally that makes it slow and also why its never likely to be updated incrementally, my guess is a complete rewrite of modeller will have to happen before the tools get updated meaning the change will happen in one go and not in a peace meal fashion, that said 11.6 added one or two new ones and interestingly inside the application itself they reside in their own folder apart from the other tools as Core Tools so who knows. Is there a better modeller right now you can use ?, as stated before Modo is the most Lightwave friendly an compatible option out there with a good cross application workflow, but though it has the toolset it can be worse than LW on big scenes for performance, when I bought into Modo with the first release it was very fast and large objects I simply could not translate in x,y,z Lightwave moved with ease in Modo, now it is starting to be the other way round.

TrueSongMedia
11-28-2014, 08:11 AM
Hey TrueSongMedia

I've been having success with Rounder on some fairly intense models. It has taken a while to figure out where it will fail and why, and most (I'm not saying all) issues have been resolvable.

If you are able to post an example (screen capture or model) I'm happy to have a look.

Cheers,
Gung

Hey, Gung. Thanks for the offer. I made a screen capture comparing rounding a single edge in Blender, Modo, LW 11.6.3, and LW 2015. I'm also attaching all four files (.blend, .lxo, .lwo for 11, .lwo for 2015) in case anyone wants to verify on their end.

I understand that Rounder works differently than some other programs, but it seems like it has some serious issues.

Here is the video http://youtu.be/yYXxpjbAUhs

And here is the zip with the four files. 125727

I know there are workarounds, but am I the only one who thinks workarounds shouldn't be necessary for such a basic function?

Thanks all,
Michael

gerry_g
11-28-2014, 10:50 AM
Rounder was put into Lightwave prior to the introduction of edge selection mode, so when Rounder offers edge as opposed to point rounding it assumes you are in polygon mode and wishing to round their mutually connected edges, the error message is due to it not understand your selection mode

Lewis
11-28-2014, 10:51 AM
I know there are workarounds, but am I the only one who thinks workarounds shouldn't be necessary for such a basic function?

Thanks all,
Michael

No, you ar ento only one, I've been reported and asked for modeler fixes (rounder among them also) many times. Why they aren't interested of fixing it (even in paying upgrades all those years since 8.x) is beyond me :(.

So if is any easier to you then YES i fully agree with you but sadly there is nothing else we can do :(.

Lewis
11-28-2014, 10:55 AM
Rounder was put into Lightwave prior to the introduction of edge selection mode, so when Rounder offers edge as opposed to point rounding it assumes you are in polygon mode and wishing to round their mutually connected edges, the error message is due to it not understand your selection mode

Nahh, not in this case (LWM don't have "true" edges anyway ;) so it's representing edge as 2 points internaly). It's just problem that Rounder don't know to work with Open edges. If you extrude edges on both sides and then select middle one then it'll work fine, you'll just end up in doing lot more work to extend edgesa nd later remove all excess parts and on top of tha tin some situations it' snot easy to do so on more intense meshes. So as OP said yes there is workarounds but that's not how it should work ;).

IMHO they should just integrate/add rounder options into Chamfer tool and delete Rounder for good sicn ethey didn't upgrade/fix it for a decade by now.

jeric_synergy
11-28-2014, 11:06 AM
My only question at this moment is if i would upgrade lw or buy LWCad or even both at the same time? Christmas is coming up ;)
Pensart, FWIW, my current strategy is to take advantage the Black Friday sale to acquire 3dCoat, with the money I would have used to upgrade to LW2015. There seems to be enough launch glitches to warrant staying out of the pool until the first patch arrives to clean up the most egregious missteps. At which point I'll happily upgrade. Meanwhile I can play with the Trial version.

The same strategy applies to LWCad: both 3dC and LWCad add significant modeling capabilities, TODAY. Depends on your needs.

Hopefully in early 2015 I'll still have the resources/cash-flow to upgrade LW.

jwiede
11-29-2014, 01:13 PM
but sadly there is nothing else we can do :(.

Sure there is: Stop buying upgrades until they address the issues you consider important. Withholding purchase is the LOUDEST message a customer can send.

Snosrap
11-29-2014, 07:19 PM
IMHO they should just integrate/add rounder options into Chamfer tool and delete Rounder for good sicn ethey didn't upgrade/fix it for a decade by now. And integrate a bunch more tools as that and and poor heavy poly performance are the main issues with Modeler. Had NT did that those two things I think it would have shown that they are serious (or even know) about Modelers' shortcomings. How hard could it be to clean up Modeler? Heck if they don't want to fix those tools at least hide them. :) The "rules" to using Rounder make pretty useless.

Snosrap
11-29-2014, 07:25 PM
Sure there is: Stop buying upgrades until they address the issues you consider important. Withholding purchase is the LOUDEST message a customer can send. But I like the upgrades. :) 2015 isn't the strongest (and the some of the content they provided indicated that it was indeed meant to be 11.7) paid upgrade, but it has been 3 years since they have had any real influx of cash so I can't blame them.

egearbox
12-02-2014, 09:49 AM
But I like the upgrades. :) 2015 isn't the strongest (and the some of the content they provided indicated that it was indeed meant to be 11.7) paid upgrade, but it has been 3 years since they have had any real influx of cash so I can't blame them.

I agree. I've been a paid user for a long time, and even though I find many things about LW frustrating it's still a helluva lot cheaper than a Maya seat ($3,675).

In real life I'm a software developer myself, and one thing I've learned is the programmers are usually NOT the reason a program sucks. It's the management making bad decisions that does the real damage. With the new management they do seem to be trying to pull out of the long slump they were in, and I'm willing to stick with them for a while to see if they can do it.

kopperdrake
12-02-2014, 10:28 AM
The way Rob hinted at Modeler love in the future (but didn't promise it in the next version) and stated they're serious about updating the modelling side of things, keeps me happy. As long as Viktor keeps pumping out LWCAD updates to prop Modeler up, it'll do us until LW can come up with something new and improved.