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3D Kiwi
11-25-2014, 02:48 AM
Great new release, congrats LW3DG!

One funny thing I found when looking for the changelog...

I guess that's not the one...!

125682

Edit: I love the new documentation, it's cool to still have a pdf file available for offline use.

Is the PDF something that can be shared. I registered the trial version but couldnt see where t get the help file.

Skonk
11-25-2014, 03:05 AM
Loading up the Remote Controlled Car scene and being able to actually drive it around within the scene is pretty cool.

Marander
11-25-2014, 03:07 AM
Is the PDF something that can be shared. I registered the trial version but couldnt see where t get the help file.

Yes, the pdf is there in the trial version:

125683

3D Kiwi
11-25-2014, 03:08 AM
Thanks should have looked harder.

probiner
11-25-2014, 03:09 AM
Snosrap,

Your assumption is not correct and we've never publicly announced any product called 11.7 so I'm not sure what you are basing your statement on. There are very specific and valuable new features and enhancements in the LightWave 2015 release which have existed in no other product version other than LightWave 2015.
Ermmm no but the existence of 11.7 was of public domain... Hence the rush in reporting bugs and all... Wouldn't mind a "new feature-free" version just with the fixed bugs, because I do agree that you packed some nice features and they should be paid. But you know the expectation of the bunch was a free 11.7 with fixes and not have those ported to a point upgrade, or should I say 2015. It's there on a simple forum search. Mind you, there's no feeling of entitlement in my regard, 11.x was plenty. But expectations and according actions where different, that's all.

Cheers

VirtualFM
11-25-2014, 03:18 AM
Hi again!

So, is there anyone from Europe who did the upgrade and can tell me how much is it? Or at least can look at his upgrade page and say how much does it cost? (how much would a Charter upgrade cost and a regular update cost).

I need to know if I have a battle with customer support in front of me or not. Thank you.

juanjgon
11-25-2014, 03:35 AM
Hi again!

So, is there anyone from Europe who did the upgrade and can tell me how much is it? Or at least can look at his upgrade page and say how much does it cost? (how much would a Charter upgrade cost and a regular update cost).

I need to know if I have a battle with customer support in front of me or not. Thank you.

In my account the price for a charter upgrade is 376,04 €, including the 19% VAT

-Juanjo

gordonrobb
11-25-2014, 03:37 AM
In the UK I'm £299 which is nearly then $495 price. I am a charter member. The proble is the addition of VAT to the price.

gordonrobb
11-25-2014, 03:42 AM
Rob et al, thanks for the upgrade. Can't upgrade now nut I will.

Like many however, I do feel a little cheated that the normal upgrade price is now nearly the same as my charter upgrade price. Now you can say as often as you like that you never promised this or that. However ther truth is that charter membership made it worth upgrading to a new version, even if there wasn't much in there for you, as the cost of the normal upgrade was nearly the same as 2 charter upgrades. Now, there is next to no difference, and I really feel that you have just missed a trick here. You should have made a gesture, token or otherwise to the loyal hardcore members that, let's face it, supported development when money ws needed.

Yes, you are right, you have not acted Outwith the letter of your contract. However, you should have given us something. Just my opinion as a loyal Lightwave fan.

THIBAULT
11-25-2014, 03:48 AM
376.04 € in France. Relatively little interest for me so no upgrade !

- - - Updated - - -


In the UK I'm £299 which is nearly then $495 price. I am a charter member. The proble is the addition of VAT to the price.

Same here !

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 03:51 AM
I was thinking that 1000 USD or 300 EUR is not much in western countries. How long you must work on this..
Everybody want be paid good for good work. LW3DG want earn money too.

lino.grandi
11-25-2014, 03:51 AM
anyone tested the bullet bone dynamics with bullet hard bodies? parts? and how they react if a tentacle bone will be able to smash in to a wall? and another thing I am curious about is if the bones react to bullet vortex forces and those other force fields? or is bullet bones limited to bullet deforming bodies at this state?

Michael

Now a bone can be a dynamic object (either Static, Kinematic and Rigid).
As you make a bone a rigid body, you'll be able to choose and edit the collision shape in total freedom.
Parts for their own nature can't work with the new Constraints, but a bone can take full advantage of Constraints, Motors and Forces.

Several videos are coming about Bullet, describing the scenes in the content. More will come showing how to build a remote controlled car, a ragdoll and so how bullet works with bones. ;)

vipvip242
11-25-2014, 03:52 AM
In my account the price for a charter upgrade is 376,04 €, including the 19% VAT

-Juanjo
thanks for this european info - it is good to know - but it would be unbelievable that you, Juan, would have to pay for an upgrade, as you're certainly one of the most active and talented 3rd party developper...
But perhaps Rob himself is paying his own upgrade... :D

I've another question for those who alrealdy have tested the 2015 licensed version: is Quicktime-64bits integration good and fast, with playback-videos used as textures or BG-texutres and recorded animations, even with profesionnal external alpha-codecs like avid XNdHD and cineform codecs ?

lwanmtr
11-25-2014, 03:55 AM
Ive been playing with the bullet bones...great stuff (found a rendering error too) ....alotta fun running over people....lol

Posted the error on this this thread http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144555-Realistic-Motion-Blur-Issue-LW-2015&goto=newpost

Andy Webb
11-25-2014, 03:58 AM
Is the upgrade actually available to buy yet?

If I click on Upgrade in the store it sends me to my registered products and that shows every LW I own plus the demo version of 2015,
there is no option to buy and no Charter Member price.

So how are people buying the upgrade...

Cheers

mav3rick
11-25-2014, 04:12 AM
weird... it was straight forward for me... when i pressed buy it switched to my product page where i have see buy upgrade button with special charter price ...

Andy Webb
11-25-2014, 04:16 AM
weird... it was straight forward for me... when i pressed buy it switched to my product page where i have see buy upgrade button with special charter price ...

No, nothing like that, I hope this is not the start of one of those messy upgrade problems people have had in the past :o

mav3rick
11-25-2014, 04:19 AM
Hi again!

So, is there anyone from Europe who did the upgrade and can tell me how much is it? Or at least can look at his upgrade page and say how much does it cost? (how much would a Charter upgrade cost and a regular update cost).

I need to know if I have a battle with customer support in front of me or not. Thank you.

as i am HC member and i buy license as company (excl. VAT) my price was 316 Eur



No, nothing like that, I hope this is not the start of one of those messy upgrade problems people have had in the past :o

feel sorry bro.... i was really not paying attention to all the process but i am sure if you are HC member there should be no problems.... i am pretty pleased with how easy and professional new web shop works.... try exchange few mails with support though...

kopperdrake
11-25-2014, 04:25 AM
Blimey!! If you weren't a big ugly sod, I'd kiss you for this one!

How many XFrog trees have I cried over, getting them all into their own layers - how much time spent!! No more by the looks of it!

THANK YOU!


To some this might not be a big deal, but ....

Per-Surface Clipmaps:

125671

vncnt
11-25-2014, 04:26 AM
Is the upgrade actually available to buy yet?

If I click on Upgrade in the store it sends me to my registered products and that shows every LW I own plus the demo version of 2015,
there is no option to buy and no Charter Member price.

So how are people buying the upgrade...

Cheers

On the support page: press the upgrade button below your v11 data.

khan973
11-25-2014, 04:28 AM
Several videos are coming about Bullet, describing the scenes in the content. More will come showing how to build a remote controlled car, a ragdoll and so how bullet works with bones. ;)

Sounds perfect! Looking forward!
Awesome job anyway. The content is owesome and looking good!

Andy Webb
11-25-2014, 04:34 AM
On the support page: press the upgrade button below your v11 data.

Well I never made the connection, but yes that works I suppose I'm upgrading LW11 but just didn't see it that way...

Cheers

realgray
11-25-2014, 04:40 AM
Hope to see a video of this new Morph Hud in action.

Amurrell
11-25-2014, 05:20 AM
Anyone else notice how fast it installs compared to 11.6.3? On the PC, 11.6.3 always took 1.5-2 minutes to install or uninstall for me but 2015 installs in like 20 seconds. I know it's minor but yay for either a.) a leaner program or b.) a better installer.

I noticed the intalled file size is 60MB less than 11.6. Doubt that small amount would acvount for it. Probably the installer.

lillmagnus
11-25-2014, 05:23 AM
When I click the "Buy upgrade" button i get transferred to a Japanese site...

tyrot
11-25-2014, 05:29 AM
Hope to see a video of this new Morph Hud in action.

download the demo - open modeler... make a box.... make a new morph - what you witness is morph hud...a blue line - and text at left corner - tells you that you are in the morph -----
add another morph : morph 1 ... now blue text shows morph1 -

a brilliant fix ...

Wolfgang Mildne
11-25-2014, 05:39 AM
Just to keep it fair ...

I checked my bill from my HC-membership upgrade 10.x to 11.x. Taking into account different currency exchange rates now and then, the price without VAT is pretty much the same as it was for 11.x.

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 05:55 AM
Imported to Modeler a FBX file with many layers and almost 2mln polygons 125Mb file:
11.5 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
11.6 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
2015 Discovery edition - Few surfaces (nice!), really LOW performance.

safetyman
11-25-2014, 05:56 AM
Congratulations to the entire Lightwave team. I know you guys worked hard on this release and by the looks of it, a job well done.

djwaterman
11-25-2014, 06:10 AM
Can someone confirm if this is an issue or not?

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144560-LW-2015-Edit-Edges-possible-bug

Paul_Boland
11-25-2014, 06:13 AM
No worries. Sorry to hear you've been unemployed for a long term. Good luck.

Thanks, Snosrap. No problem at all. I was just highlight that doing the upgrade is a big commitment for some people, but no problem at all :).

mav3rick
11-25-2014, 06:13 AM
Imported to Modeler a FBX file with many layers and almost 2mln polygons 125Mb file:
11.5 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
11.6 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
2015 Discovery edition - Few surfaces (nice!), really LOW performance.

check your display setting match 11.x (multitexture shaders vs GLSL) and more go under surface panel check for vertex normal map not to be selected... it is knows this slow down modeler a lott...

starbase1
11-25-2014, 06:14 AM
Personally I am VERY disappointed that Modeller has not been brought up to date.

In my view it is an inconsistent mess, with bodged piles of proper commands, scripts (that forget your previous settings), and poor stability (rounder springs to mind).

I still like Layout a lot, but the awful modeller is driving me to other products.

This is a missed opportunity, and given the typical time between major releases, i doubt i will be around even if they sort it out in the next pass.

Aww167
11-25-2014, 06:26 AM
Read of the Lightwave 2015 release yesterday for the first time with a mixture of great interest and growing dismay - excitement at the possibility of interesting new goodies to explore, and dismay at having only recently upgraded to 11.6 in the last 3 months, and wondering how I missed the announcement of an imminent new release so easily? No discounted upgrade options for those who've recently already upgraded, so far as I can see?
This will either be a highly expensive time for me then, having also just purchased an Octane licence, Quadro K5200 and with a new version of LWCAD not too far off....or an opportunity to further develop my capacity for self-restraint.....:)

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 06:29 AM
check your display setting match 11.x (multitexture shaders vs GLSL) and more go under surface panel check for vertex normal map not to be selected... it is knows this slow down modeler a lott...

Settings are the same. I checked it before. Only difference is that in 2015 surfaces settings load also glossiness value. Put them on 0% did not helped. Difference in speed is very big, 73 fps vs 7 fps in perspective window. Still looking a reason but if someone else can also test could be nice.
Sorry, it's almost 4mln faces total, not 2mln.

Andy Webb
11-25-2014, 06:35 AM
I see F3, rest on ground still only works on one layer at a time :grumpy:

VirtualFM
11-25-2014, 06:39 AM
In my account the price for a charter upgrade is 376,04 €, including the 19% VAT

-Juanjo

Thank you and "mav3rick"!

I think I didn't see the 316€ price and was not counting on #"#$%"#$ VAT.

So this makes more sense: They made an exchange rate of 1:1.25, which is pretty accurate, so $395=316€. The other upgrade should be 396€ then (471.24€ with VAT).

I'm glad my situation is cleaned. Happy to see justice prevail!

lino.grandi
11-25-2014, 06:39 AM
Settings are the same. I checked it before. Only difference is that in 2015 surfaces settings load also glossiness value. Put them on 0% did not helped. Difference in speed is very big, 73 fps vs 7 fps in perspective window. Still looking a reason but if someone else can also test could be nice.
Sorry, it's almost 4mln faces total, not 2mln.

Can you please share the model you're using?

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 06:58 AM
125685
Can you please share the model you're using?

Sorry i can't...:( but as a proof i made print screen from 11.6 and 2015 :]

One more info, when import the same FBX but on one layer, in 11.6 and in 2015 i have 8 fps.
I have Radeon 7970.

lino.grandi
11-25-2014, 07:04 AM
You can use the bug report system. Any submitted content is covered by NDA.

Skonk
11-25-2014, 07:14 AM
125685

Sorry i can't...:( but as a proof i made print screen from 11.6 and 2015 :]

One more info, when import the same FBX but on one layer, in 11.6 and in 2015 i have 8 fps.
I have Radeon 7970.

Settings are different.

Old LW is set to SortByPolygon, new LW is set to SortByObject

JohnMarchant
11-25-2014, 07:14 AM
Well looks like a nice feature list Rob and my congratulations to you and all the team at LWG3D, please, please, please give modeler some more love as well as HV and particles. Waiting for LWCAD 5 now to see how well this works.

Also can we get more feedback in future, i understand to some degree why you guys talk to us allot less but come on we still need a bone now and again if only to tell us to shut up, its nice to see that our thoughts and aspirations mean something to you all.

scratch33
11-25-2014, 07:14 AM
Ok I'm in !!!
Cool release. Congrats newtek.
Now, where is the new manual?
Nothing in my account and nothing with F1 in lw.
Thanks

ivanze
11-25-2014, 07:21 AM
The manual is inside your Lightwave 2015 installation folder and there is a folder called Docs. There you can find it.

Hmm, the pdf file is supposed to be inside docs/help but the installer put it in docs. That's why it doesn't find it with F1.

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 07:26 AM
Settings are different.

Old LW is set to SortByPolygon, new LW is set to SortByObject

You right, my bad... it not helped.

KorbenD
11-25-2014, 07:41 AM
I may have missed it in one of the previous posts, but has it been announced what the deadline is for Charter members to buy at the reduced price?

Thanks!

OlaHaldor
11-25-2014, 07:50 AM
I believe mr. Powers said 30 days

tcoursey
11-25-2014, 08:03 AM
Over all it looks interesting, though I am massively disappointed that there has been nothing on Modeling integration with layout.

I agree, but not that they are not integrated more, I'm not huge on that aspect. But to not have any improvement in modeler's "engine" is very disappointing for a "major" release. Some neat things, but to me maybe a point-and-a-half release, not a full version. Probably will still upgrade as it's our professional tool. We can always find things we don't like or wanted, and since there are thousands of us that means there are thousands of things we didn't get in this release :)

ernpchan
11-25-2014, 08:09 AM
I see F3, rest on ground still only works on one layer at a time :grumpy:

Submit a feature request so it's in the system for the devs to look at.

tcoursey
11-25-2014, 08:47 AM
"Mouse wheel zooming in Modeler" doesn't seem to work for me.
Am I missing something?

Edit:
Found it. Display Options >> Interface.
Should be on by default imho.

And IMO they should have included Wheel Button PAN, I mean isn't that the default for many 3D app's? Nice that it zooms where your pointer is and out again...but I would have loved an inclusion of the button for PAN. Seems straight forward...maybe 2015.1

Otterman
11-25-2014, 08:49 AM
IS the content free to grab as well or is this not available to play with until you purchase the upgrade? I have the trail version but would like to see how these files work....the remote car sounds just what I need right now.

Dan_Ritchie
11-25-2014, 09:13 AM
Improved slider drawing...

I wonder what that means.

brief mention of dynamic parenting(!)

Importance sampling is a big surprise. Hope that will speed up global illumination renders.

Something about improved texture falloff? Anybody know what that's all about?

Some incredible renders in that video!

tcoursey
11-25-2014, 09:17 AM
What do you guys think about a yearly subscription based upgrade like Adobe and others, if we get a yearly update? Maybe a few options...one for LW only, another for all 3D products, and yet one more for anything LW and NT makes all together (software based anyway). Not sure the price point but one would assume around $40 or less for 3D only, giving us a bit of a discount for the cash flow they could count on... I wonder if this would help them with continued development (cash flow etc). Thoughts???

Kaptive
11-25-2014, 09:17 AM
Improved slider drawing...

I wonder what that means.



In the past I've had some funny issues with the sliders being hard to select and silly little things that don't break my scenes, but can be just a pain. So maybe they'll just be a lot more reliable, as visually I think they look the same.

Kaptive
11-25-2014, 09:27 AM
What do you guys think about a yearly subscription based upgrade like Adobe and others, if we get a yearly update? Maybe a few options...one for LW only, another for all 3D products, and yet one more for anything LW and NT makes all together (software based anyway). Not sure the price point but one would assume around $40 or less for 3D only, giving us a bit of a discount for the cash flow they could count on... I wonder if this would help them with continued development (cash flow etc). Thoughts???

A mixed offering would probably work well for everyone I suppose. Offer a subscription based path that is maybe 10-15% cheaper than how we currently do it, so that they have a guarenteed amount of money coming in (like you say)... a bit of security from those that are happy with that arrangement.
But also keep the current model running too, because some people are happy with how it all works. Options are always better than rigidity. If the subscription price offered a realistic (but not unfair) saving over the current version upgrade price, then many might migrate, and new users might actually find it an easier way of getting going in LW.

I have to say though, that if Lightwave is going to start releasing yearly, then that is a much shorter cycle than it has ever had per version, so I would hope that the upgrade pricing will reflect this once Lightwave 2016 comes around. (Either that or we see the same amount of features and updates per release in a much shorter time frame... which means they'll need more people. That kind of fast advancement, I might just pay for).

djwaterman
11-25-2014, 09:38 AM
IS the content free to grab as well or is this not available to play with until you purchase the upgrade? I have the trail version but would like to see how these files work....the remote car sounds just what I need right now.

Yes, it's available with trial version.

jeric_synergy
11-25-2014, 09:45 AM
And IMO they should have included Wheel Button PAN, I mean isn't that the default for many 3D app's? Nice that it zooms where your pointer is and out again...but I would have loved an inclusion of the button for PAN. Seems straight forward...maybe 2015.1
Since erikals implemented mouse zoom in 11.6 using AHK, perhaps it can be used to implement mouse pan-- something I am now NEEDING, damn you.

Dan_Ritchie
11-25-2014, 09:46 AM
THey're still updating the website this morning, it looks like, so be sure to check in again. BTW, the download went really fast this morning!


Textured Falloffs(!)

Falloffs in Modeler now offer Texture Editor support, allowing you to use any image, procedural or gradient to affect your modeling operations.
Per Surface Clip Maps

(! heart skips a beat !)
Clip maps were always available on a per-object basis, now in addition to object based, per-surface based clip maps are now available both in the layered Surface Editor and Node based surfacing.

cresshead
11-25-2014, 09:59 AM
John,
Your HardCORE pricing is a guaranteed pricing and as long as you maintain your HardCORE status you will be certain of never paying more for an upgrade. From my other post:

"Even if a special promotion or limited-time pricing offer matches your upgrade price now, there is no guarantee that the price of upgrades will not go up. You are only locked in at your Charter price of $395 or post-charter price of $495 while you maintain your HardCORE status."

to clarify...i'm on 10.1 with hardcore so you update to 2015 i need to buy 2 updates...upto 11 then upto 2015 which will total around $800

if i dump hardcore i pay $500 and so "save" $300 or the same as 3 years hardcore discount in effect.

is this correct?

tcoursey
11-25-2014, 09:59 AM
Since erikals implemented mouse zoom in 11.6 using AHK, perhaps it can be used to implement mouse pan-- something I am now NEEDING, damn you.

I wasn't familiar with that...can you point me to this plugin? (so I can see if they implement a PAN tool too). Thanks.

Dan_Ritchie
11-25-2014, 09:59 AM
Full texture editor in modeler. Squeals (I tell you)

souzou
11-25-2014, 10:12 AM
to clarify...i'm on 10.1 with hardcore so you update to 2015 i need to buy 2 updates...upto 11 then upto 2015 which will total around $800

if i dump hardcore i pay $500 and so "save" $300 or the same as 3 years hardcore discount in effect.

is this correct?

Yes, though don't forget to add VAT to that unless you're VAT-registered. So to stay in hardcore you're looking at £590 or just upgrade would be around £370.

MrFurious
11-25-2014, 10:16 AM
Ok.. had a chance to play around with the 2015 demo today. The new ordering options in the image editor is nicely implemented with many sorting options but it's way short of the mark in terms of globally being able to access your images quickly because..... all the drop down menus are still locked to the default 'load order'. Kindof useless as most often I'm working with drop down menus and not in the image editor. Really disappointed about this half baked addition. Come to think of it, sorting options in drop down menus should be available for objects as well as images and a scroll bar would be handy too for those long item/image lists.

As an archviz guy who uses octane there's not much, practically nothing actually to be excited about in the 2015 update and this is the first time a full update has been less interesting than a point update. There are a few useful additions but it just doesn't justify the $500.00 spend. Still the same old bugs from 11.6.3 as well, with none of my fogbugs reports being addressed. (except the image list ordering.. well kinda)

I was expecting a point release for LW11 even if it was just for bug fixes, instead I'm offered a full version update with features I don't need and with the same bugs/quirks in 11.6.3

Deep Purple
11-25-2014, 10:20 AM
Imported to Modeler a FBX file with many layers and almost 2mln polygons 125Mb file:
11.5 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
11.6 - Many surfaces (not nice), working fast
2015 Discovery edition - Few surfaces (nice!), really LOW performance.

Hi Marcus,
that may be an optimization for an upcoming patch release,
could you send us content to profile/debug and fix this performance issue?

Cheers,
David

Sanchon
11-25-2014, 10:23 AM
New features are great. LW is much faster now. Modeler can handle big objects better, even moving, rotating 2mln polys is faster. Much faster Multishift. VPR in camera mode support texture mip-maps now. But one bug that I found before is still there - sliders doesn't load from scene where is object with compound node. It would be perfect if multishift and smooth shift will support the new textured falloff's.

tyrot
11-25-2014, 10:29 AM
Ok.. had a chance to play around with the 2015 demo today. The new ordering options in the image editor is nicely implemented with many sorting options but it's way short of the mark in terms of globally being able to access your images quickly because..... all the drop down menus are still locked to the default 'load order'. Kindof useless as most often I'm working with drop down menus and not in the image editor. Really disappointed about this half baked addition. Come to think of it, sorting options in drop down menus should be available for objects as well as images and a scroll bar would be handy too for those long item/image lists.

As an archviz guy who uses octane there's not much, practically nothing actually to be excited about in the 2015 update and this is the first time a full update has been less interesting than a point update. There are a few useful additions but it just doesn't justify the $500.00 spend. Still the same old bugs from 11.6.3 as well, with none of my fogbugs reports being addressed. (except the image list ordering.. well kinda)

I was expecting a point release for LW11 even if it was just for bug fixes, instead I'm offered a full version update with features I don't need and with the same bugs/quirks in 11.6.3

totally agree... totally

jeric_synergy
11-25-2014, 10:33 AM
I wasn't familiar with that...can you point me to this plugin? (so I can see if they implement a PAN tool too). Thanks.

AHK (Auto HotKey) is a system wide (Windows) hotkey scripting language, it's amazing. If you look here on the forum in the scripting section you'll see various AHK scripts that people have created to help w/LW and LWM. I also use it in Adobe Bridge and on my desktop. Oh, and with FogBugz.

For instance, AHK intercepts the mouse wheel and feeds it to LWM as sequential "<" and ">"s to implement zoom. Works suprisingly well.

Google for resources.

MrFurious
11-25-2014, 10:37 AM
Hmm.... first test scene with 2015 and Layout crashes upon exiting

zapper1998
11-25-2014, 10:37 AM
The Hub is still crashing??????
I can not understand it, as long as I do not click on the Hub, it don't crash, I open the hub and crashola...

dang it
Fresh install, wtfrak, oh well everything else in LW2015 worky really goody..

Mike

So what about Octane and LW2015???

BeeVee
11-25-2014, 10:50 AM
Okay, read through the lot now (phew) and yes, for everyone asking where the manual is, it's in the docs folder, both on trial and full versions. I decided to make it all one volume (since hey, it's not any heavier to carry around than the LightWave 11 addendum) so that there was no having to jump between the Modeler, Layout and Surface and Render PDFs. There is a What's new in 2015 that takes the items out of the contents and puts them all in the same place and you can click on the page numbers to go to the right page. In fact, there are quite a few places where there are page references made that you can click on.

LightWave 2015 is a good leap forward in a lot of ways and I'm proud that documentation is one of them.

Lastly, and excluding Paul Boland from this since he's in a different position, if you are on 10 and are worried about losing the hardcore pricing, upgrading to 11 will give you loads of new features, like Bullet, Genoma and more and you don't *need* to upgrade to 2015 immediately, just before the next version comes out to maintain the discount.

B

juanjgon
11-25-2014, 10:51 AM
So what about Octane and LW2015???

I will release a beta build this week with the new FiberFX support, but meanwhile I think that it is safe to use the current Octane for 11.6 with LW 2015.

-Juanjo

Lito
11-25-2014, 10:53 AM
I may have missed it in one of the previous posts, but has it been announced what the deadline is for Charter members to buy at the reduced price?

Thanks!
Depends...if you upgraded already to LW 11.x then you have to buy LW2015 upgrade within 30days after the release of the next version (LW2016?). If you are still on LW 10.x then you must buy the upgrade to v11 ($395) within the next 30 days to keep your HC discount alive. You cannot skip the v11 upgrade if you want to keep your discount alive.

MarcusM
11-25-2014, 11:07 AM
Hi Marcus,
that may be an optimization for an upcoming patch release,
could you send us content to profile/debug and fix this performance issue?

Cheers,
David

Hi,

Today i landed at home now but tomorrow i will send content on bug email adress.
Hope it help :]

Ps. I reported today a small naming mistake, in fbx exporter is FBX201400, should be FBX201500 i think. I did not received mail back that why i writing it here one more time.

Emmanuel
11-25-2014, 11:08 AM
Observation: in LW 2015, objects connected to flock agents via instancing still dont do motion blur. Makes motion graphics a bit more unfun to do in LW.
A good thing: OpenGL seems improved in LW 2015, I used to have weight map render errors in the viewports, they are gone (no gfx driver update !).

Deep Purple
11-25-2014, 11:13 AM
Hmm.... first test scene with 2015 and Layout crashes upon exiting

Hi MrFurious!

FYI:
That particular issue has been identified and fixed, will be part of the next patch release.

Cheers,
David

Deep Purple
11-25-2014, 11:21 AM
Hi,

Today i landed at home now but tomorrow i will send content on bug email adress.
Hope it help :]

Ps. I reported today a small naming mistake, in fbx exporter is FBX201400, should be FBX201500 i think. I did not received mail back that why i writing it here one more time.

Thanks, Marcus! :-)

Just in case the bug reporting email address is not known, it is now:
[email protected]

About the FBX naming, the format used by the FBX 2015 SDK is 2014.1, Autodesk did not increase the file version in this release. It is a bit confusing, unfortunately not under our control.

Thanks for reporting those issues, we get them fixed as soon as possible.

Cheers,
David

zapper1998
11-25-2014, 11:21 AM
ok the LW 2015 Content is Missing a few T H I N G S ......

Tried to load a few scenes and there are a few objecto's missing here???

Body_Only_04.lwo object for one thing is missing....

Scene folder for the Genoma2 -> Mecha_Rig stuff missing

Darn it anyways Bugs Bunny did it..

Mike

bazsa73
11-25-2014, 11:23 AM
I'm rendered speechless!

ActionBob
11-25-2014, 11:25 AM
Answered own question... Disregard...

MrFurious
11-25-2014, 11:30 AM
Thanks David, reassuring to know that after the next release Lightwave will never crash ;)

I'm just winding you up.. What particular issue are you referring to? All I did was load a random object and instanced it then played around with VPR.

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 11:32 AM
You are absolutely correct that we are going to do this right. I will not speak directly about any future release and we cannot rush things any faster than makes sense to meet unrealistic expectations but I will say that under the hood work has gone into foundational modeling architecture and we are serious about innovating with our modeling tools. We have been hard at work laying the ground-work for some very interesting things as we move forward. And I am excited about sharing more with you when the time comes.

:cry: <-- tears of joy. Thank you.

Deep Purple
11-25-2014, 11:45 AM
Observation: in LW 2015, objects connected to flock agents via instancing still dont do motion blur. Makes motion graphics a bit more unfun to do in LW.
A good thing: OpenGL seems improved in LW 2015, I used to have weight map render errors in the viewports, they are gone (no gfx driver update !).

Hi Emmanuel!

Motion blur should definitely work with instances!
Could you submit some test content and a bug report to [email protected] please?

mfg,
David

jwiede
11-25-2014, 11:46 AM
totally agree... totally

I don't feel the "LW2015" upgrade offers nearly enough "meat" for the price, esp. considering that "completing Bullet" is one of its (few) major improvements. I'm quite disappointed by the scale of the "LW2015" upgrade.

Further, comparing what similar amounts of money buy in competitors' recent version upgrades, versus what LW3DG delivered during LW11.x cycle and in "LW2015" upgrade, I find the competitors offer greater improvements, larger feature additions, and are generally doing a better job of staying relevant to 3D in general for approx. the same cost. If LW3DG expects me to pay the same for less overall, then IMO at the very least they should offer absolutely impeccable customer support and quality control (adding value). Again IMO, they do not.

I had high hopes that LW12 (now "LW2015") would significantly improve Lightwave's value-for-cost. Unfortunately, I see nothing in the "LW2015" upgrade to validate or sustain those hopes, alas.

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 11:47 AM
The only prices that we have reduced are those of the full license and of the upgrade. The product price can change but your special HardCORE pricing program guarantees that you will never pay more than the price you locked in at for a total of five upgrades.

And if I see no discount when logging in even though I've been a HC member since nearly the beginning...this means...what? Have I already burned through my 5 upgrades?

edit: Never mind. Found it!

wesleycorgi
11-25-2014, 11:51 AM
Reading the docs, I am curious what makes a lot of the modeling tools have the 2015 "new/update" symbol next to it? Is it the aforementioned "under the hood" changes?

Deep Purple
11-25-2014, 11:52 AM
Thanks David, reassuring to know that after the next release Lightwave will never crash ;)

I'm just winding you up.. What particular issue are you referring to? All I did was load a random object and instanced it then played around with VPR.

What you described sounds very much like a VPR-related crash on shutdown with one of the demo scenes we discovered right on the day of release. I cannot be sure 100% if it is the same as yours, but it sure sounds like it. ;-)

Cheers,
David

Marander
11-25-2014, 11:52 AM
Great new release, congrats LW3DG!

One funny thing I found when looking for the changelog...

I guess that's not the one...!

125682

Edit: I love the new documentation, it's cool to still have a pdf file available for offline use.


To add to my previous post, unfortunately the help file is in the wrong place. When pressing F1 there is an error (see below). Tip: Move the pdf file to the help folder, then F1 works. I personally find this is a silly bug that should have been found while testing.

125689

125690

MSherak
11-25-2014, 11:54 AM
Reading the docs, I am curious what makes a lot of the modeling tools have the 2015 "new/update" symbol next to it? Is it the aforementioned "under the hood" changes?

There seems to be many changes under the hood that have sped up the software as a whole.

MrFurious
11-25-2014, 11:59 AM
What you described sounds very much like a VPR-related crash on shutdown with one of the demo scenes we discovered right on the day of release. I cannot be sure 100% if it is the same as yours, but it sure sounds like it. ;-)

Cheers,
David

Actually my initial post was extremely vague and non specific, no mention of VPR at all... you're very intuitive ;)

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 12:00 PM
Well I hope that's the case. Don't get me wrong, LW11 was a great release. And antiquated architecture could very well be the reason for the long dev cycle. But the problem is - I can't see that. What's in 2015 that would be impossible to do in 11.6? The architecture looks the same to me. :)

I understand what you're saying, but speaking as a programmer a lot of effort can go into rewriting code to make it more usable. Sometimes I inherit projects from other developers and need to update it before I can build upon it. Even though the benefits of this house cleaning are not visible, the work makes moving forward possible.

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 12:15 PM
But the biggest thanks is for keeping the licensing model!!!! I'm very happy you have perpetual licenses and didn't get succumb to evil cloud only subscriptions.


+10!

prometheus
11-25-2014, 12:20 PM
Now a bone can be a dynamic object (either Static, Kinematic and Rigid).
As you make a bone a rigid body, you'll be able to choose and edit the collision shape in total freedom.
Parts for their own nature can't work with the new Constraints, but a bone can take full advantage of Constraints, Motors and Forces.

Several videos are coming about Bullet, describing the scenes in the content. More will come showing how to build a remote controlled car, a ragdoll and so how bullet works with bones. ;)

Looking forward to see that, thanks for the info Lino.

Oedo 808
11-25-2014, 12:23 PM
I understand what you're saying, but speaking as a programmer a lot of effort can go into rewriting code to make it more usable. Sometimes I inherit projects from other developers and need to update it before I can build upon it. Even though the benefits of this house cleaning are not visible, the work makes moving forward possible.

Sometimes (often) I inherit projects from myself and need to update them before I can build upon them. :stumped:

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 12:27 PM
Sometimes (often) I inherit projects from myself and need to update them before I can build upon them. :stumped:

:caffeine: = my best friend

I'm not sure where I spend the most time: fixing someone else's code or explaining to the client why it needs to be done.

vncnt
11-25-2014, 12:30 PM
Feels like home: a crash within the first 5 minutes.

While in VPR: clicked on the background image and BOOM!

lino.grandi
11-25-2014, 12:41 PM
Feels like home: a crash within the first 5 minutes.

While in VPR: clicked on the background image and BOOM!

That's been reported and fixed already! ;)

BeeVee
11-25-2014, 12:59 PM
Reading the docs, I am curious what makes a lot of the modeling tools have the 2015 "new/update" symbol next to it? Is it the aforementioned "under the hood" changes?

Because those tools have been updated for 2015 with multi-layer capabilities, read on a bit ;)

B

MAUROCOR
11-25-2014, 01:00 PM
Feels like home: a crash within the first 5 minutes.

While in VPR: clicked on the background image and BOOM!

Not here! VPR/Radiosity/image backdrop/background image... no crashes! I am impressed indeed! Very stable to me. And fast!!!;)

jboudreau
11-25-2014, 01:10 PM
Since erikals implemented mouse zoom in 11.6 using AHK, perhaps it can be used to implement mouse pan-- something I am now NEEDING, damn you.

Hi Jeric

Here is the code to have the following working in AHK "Auto Hot Key"

Wheel up Zooms in
Wheel Down Zooms out
Middle mouse button Pans around and rotates the model in the perspective window

SetTitleMatchMode, 2
#IfWinActive NewTek LightWave
MButton::!MButton
WheelUp:: Send, {.}
WheelDown:: Send, {,}

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Jason

Paul_Boland
11-25-2014, 01:24 PM
Lastly, and excluding Paul Boland from this since he's in a different position...

LOL!! Thanks :)!!

sadkkf
11-25-2014, 01:26 PM
Any chance with all these improvements we can get compatibility with Carbon Scatter finally?

wesleycorgi
11-25-2014, 01:36 PM
Because those tools have been updated for 2015 with multi-layer capabilities, read on a bit ;)

B

Oh, cool! The documentation looks great.

Tranimatronic
11-25-2014, 01:57 PM
I don't feel the "LW2015" upgrade offers nearly enough "meat" for the price, esp. considering that "completing Bullet" is one of its (few) major improvements. I'm quite disappointed by the scale of the "LW2015" upgrade.

Further, comparing what similar amounts of money buy in competitors' recent version upgrades, versus what LW3DG delivered during LW11.x cycle and in "LW2015" upgrade, I find the competitors offer greater improvements, larger feature additions, and are generally doing a better job of staying relevant to 3D in general for approx. the same cost. If LW3DG expects me to pay the same for less overall, then IMO at the very least they should offer absolutely impeccable customer support and quality control (adding value). Again IMO, they do not.

I had high hopes that LW12 (now "LW2015") would significantly improve Lightwave's value-for-cost. Unfortunately, I see nothing in the "LW2015" upgrade to validate or sustain those hopes, alas.

Couldnt agree more. The charter member thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Basically for this upgrade I pay $500 now to upkeep (a frankly disappointing) member status, or skip this one and pay possibly the same as everyone else next time round.
The part I DID NOT expect (especially after the 11.x cycle) was the scenario where the upgrade would be so lackluster that I would rather keep my money and see what happens next time.
I know I dont HAVE to upgrade. I know others seem happy with this release, but it seems odd a bunch of key people here think it overpriced and underpowered.

jasonwestmas
11-25-2014, 02:06 PM
Why do you guys pay $500 for your charter upgrade? I pay $395

prometheus
11-25-2014, 02:16 PM
Im about 80-90% sure I will not upgrade, I had my fears when nevron motion and chronosculpt showed up..that the work needed on that could interfere with the lightwave development,That it would take time and focus away from lightwave ...and that is the gut feeling I got when I saw this release too unfortunatly.

If the modo/foundry team would offer a crossgrade offer for us old charter members and offer modo for 495, then that is what I would jump in too, modo has developed in a way with so many new tools that is simply more towards my own requests..there´s only worries about how it performs compared to lightwave, and the fact that I still love and would prefere to work with lightwave...but if such offer arise, it´s a no brainer I think.

Meanwhile I still hope to see underlying changes really make an impact in next lightwave versions, but for that I have to wait and see.
Before final decision on to upgrade or not, I will spend the upcoming weeks to try lightwave 2015 and modo.

You just can´t please them all can you:hey: the needs of the many ...outweighs the needs of the few.

Michael

tyrot
11-25-2014, 02:16 PM
500 dollars for this upgrade? ... it is really steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep... for users before 10 -11 version it is a steal...but for 11.6.. user.....i do not know..

raw-m
11-25-2014, 02:22 PM
I would have expected to see a lot more videos hilighting the new stuff on launch of a major update, straight from release day. But disappointed there's just the one promo.

MAUROCOR
11-25-2014, 02:26 PM
Couldnt agree more. The charter member thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Basically for this upgrade I pay $500 now to upkeep (a frankly disappointing) member status, or skip this one and pay possibly the same as everyone else next time round.
The part I DID NOT expect (especially after the 11.x cycle) was the scenario where the upgrade would be so lackluster that I would rather keep my money and see what happens next time.
I know I dont HAVE to upgrade. I know others seem happy with this release, but it seems odd a bunch of key people here think it overpriced and underpowered.

Key people?!?

Nicolas Jordan
11-25-2014, 02:27 PM
Does anyone know where I can find the documentation on the Lightwave 2015 features. I installed the trial version and It doesn't appear in my account like it has with previous releases.

jboudreau
11-25-2014, 02:29 PM
500 dollars for this upgrade? ... it is really steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep... for users before 10 -11 version it is a steal...but for 11.6.. user.....i do not know..

Tyrot

Are you a charter member or a post charter member.

charter member upgrade is $395
post charter member upgrade is $495

That would mean if you upgrade now you pay either $395 or $495 depending on which charter you are in for the next five (I think) versions.

The part I don't understand is how many versions are their left in the charter post charter membership? Anybody know

Jason

jboudreau
11-25-2014, 02:30 PM
Does anyone know where I can find the documentation on the Lightwave 2015 features. I installed the trial version and It doesn't appear in my account like it has with previous releases.

It's found here on the PC

C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave_2015\docs\LightWave2015.pdf

Jason

probiner
11-25-2014, 02:36 PM
Tyrot

Are you a charter member or a post charter member.

charter member upgrade is $395
post charter member upgrade is $495

That would mean if you upgrade now you pay either $395 or $495 depending on which charter you are in for the next five (I think) versions.

The part I don't understand is how many versions are their left in the charter post charter membership? Anybody know

Jason

Since I'm also on charter membership I would like to know this too. up to which more versions is the discount true?

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 02:38 PM
Since I'm also on charter membership I would like to know this too. up to which more versions is the discount true?

LW 10 was the first in the line of discounts. LW 11 was second. LW 2015 is third. You have two more left. AFAIK that is.

Nicolas Jordan
11-25-2014, 02:39 PM
It's found here on the PC

C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave_2015\docs\LightWave2015.pdf

Jason

Thanks! I didn't realize they were installed them with Lightwave now.

probiner
11-25-2014, 02:41 PM
LW 10 was the first in the line of discounts. LW 11 was second. LW 2015 is third. You have two more left. AFAIK that is.

Thanks for the check.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the check.

I would still check with LW3DG to make sure. It could have started with LW11 and you have three more. I just know that I returned LW10 and am now out of HC.

jwiede
11-25-2014, 03:14 PM
LW 10 was the first in the line of discounts. LW 11 was second. LW 2015 is third. You have two more left. AFAIK that is.

Actually, I do not believe that is correct. HC customers received LW10 without having to pay any upgrade cost, so I don't see how LW10 could consume a discount slot. LW11 was the first paid upgrade for us, post-CORE/HC. LW2015 is the second. There should be three left (after LW2015) by that count, given five total.

Ideally someone from LW3DG will provide an official answer.

GandB
11-25-2014, 03:14 PM
Well the .FBX export improvements are very welcome, as well as many of the smaller items in the package (wheel zoom and pan, etc.). For someone like myself; it's a great deal, coming from 9.6. I've downloaded the demo and will give it a try. Buying into it is still up in the air for me, as Blender seems to cover things quite well so far; however, I will be keeping an eye on development for the next version....at which point I may bite (over Modo). Staying tuned, and nice work to all involved!

hrgiger
11-25-2014, 03:16 PM
Actually, I do not believe that is correct. HC users received LW10 without having to pay any upgrade cost, so it didn't consume a discount slot. LW11 was the first paid upgrade for us, post-CORE/HC. LW2015 is the second. There should be three left by that count.

John is right, LW 11 is the first of the discounts. We had already paid for the hardcore program when they decided to give us the discount once CORE was cancelled. LW 15 or whatever date year number that will be would be the last one.

lardbros
11-25-2014, 03:16 PM
Unfortunately there will always be bugs... I'm surprised some of those weren't caught, but then maybe they didn't exist until the final build? :)

As for bugs on release... A couple of versions of 3dsmax, we made the grave error of updating to a latest release and the 'File' button didn't work, it crashed on exit (but that was only when the little 'x' in the corner to close it, was actually working!)
Newtek still have done a great job in my eyes, and for the money it's way cheaper than any of Autodesk's offerings!
We are stuck in a subscription with Autodesk and we need their tools, BUT we hardly get any decent updates. 2015 3dsmax gave us quad chamfer... Some other badly implemented stuff and that was it! I'm sure Maya is better.

khan973
11-25-2014, 03:24 PM
Seriously guys? you're hoping to get free versions?
Even thought it's been said by another direction, people say thing and take back their promises, not because they don't want to but because they can't.
I'd rather pay for something I feel is legitimate and is worth paying for than having a dead software in my hands because they have no sense of business...
For hobbyists, I can understand the frustration, but when you do 3D for a living, it pays itself...

Just take a step back and look at what you got without needing to pay more. I think it's been more than decent.

jwiede
11-25-2014, 03:29 PM
Seriously guys? you're hoping to get free versions?

Who are asking for free versions? I'm not seeing that.

cresshead
11-25-2014, 03:30 PM
Lastly, and excluding Paul Boland from this since he's in a different position, if you are on 10 and are worried about losing the hardcore pricing, upgrading to 11 will give you loads of new features, like Bullet, Genoma and more and you don't *need* to upgrade to 2015 immediately, just before the next version comes out to maintain the discount.

B

hi..my 2 pennies.

I think it's probably the most absurd thing i've ever come across...to be pushed to a deadline (30 days) to upgrade to a OLD version of Lightwave to keep a discount on "future versions" alive...when the future version has been released!

totally nutty...honestly..nuts i tell ya!

this is VERY AUTODESK in nature...of course we're also fortunate it's only a silly "option"...we'll simply laugh it off as some drunken idea dreamt up at the water cooler at a newtek party.

come over here...right...stand still for a moment...here...try my shoes on...right heads up...okay your're in my shoes now...
okay?...come on stop laughing!...yes it's stupid...i know...see...daft idea.

would have been better to just say to 10 users..your done son...you;re off hardcore....here buy lightwave 2015
I'm certainly not in the mood to pay $395 dollars for nothing ( won't ever install/use lw11) and then another $395 dollars for the thing i'll use - lw2015.

you need to have another look, from our perspective..."we" didn't think lw11 was worth upgrading to...so don't push us into a deadline
when the next version comes along...i "get it" but it's VERY unpalatable and certainly not a newtek thing i recognise.

probiner
11-25-2014, 03:38 PM
Seriously guys? you're hoping to get free versions?

I was hoping for 11.7 with bug fixes 0 new features (Maybe stuff like Scene editor multi-selection would be reasonable), before LW12 rolled out with new features.
I don't think no one was expecting a ZBrush deal.


this is VERY AUTODESK in nature...of course we're also fortunate it's only a silly "option"...we'll simply laugh it off as some drunken idea dreamt up at the water cooler at a newtek party.

Cress, I think the discount upgrades was something useful for people that were expecting to upgrade everytime anyway as LW was relevant to them and they wanted to stay updated. If 11.x wasn't needed for you and you now want 2015, like you self said paying 500$ will be cheaper.
It's usually why people get into long term plans. Being the drawback that they lose flexibility.



Cheers

spherical
11-25-2014, 03:40 PM
I think it's probably the most absurd thing i've ever come across...to be pushed to a deadline (30 days) to upgrade to a OLD version of Lightwave to keep a discount on "future versions" alive...when the future version has been released!

The deal was that you stay current through the next 5 versions. It is very generous that they eliminated the 60-day grace period and now allow users flexibility to make good on their end of the deal by letting them upgrade when they can; throughout the current version cycle. That a person does not or cannot upgrade until the end of the current cycle (+30 days grace period after release) still requires that they purchase the next of the five consecutive builds above where they are now. In order to keep the stream going, you move up one version at a time; when it is time. Let it slide for a while, you have to make up for it. NOT doing so is jumping a version; which is not part of the deal.

cresshead
11-25-2014, 03:52 PM
The deal was that you stay current through the next 5 versions. It is very generous that they eliminated the 60-day grace period and now allow users flexibility to make good on their end of the deal by letting them upgrade when they can; throughout the current version cycle. That a person does not or cannot upgrade until the end of the current cycle (+30 days grace period after release) still requires that they purchase the next of the five consecutive builds above where they are now. In order to keep the stream going, you move up one version at a time; when it is time. Let it slide for a while, you have to make up for it. NOT doing so is jumping a version; which is not part of the deal.


not one to keep kicking a dead herbavore but the hardcore"deal" was to keep current on a next gen intergrated 3d app...once that got it's date of "demise"
we we're told...not to worry we'll be moving all that tech over to Lightwave X...I was still still ..still! waiting...hence not updating to 11.

ie: modeling tech in layout as a sign it was indeed possible...
yeh i know horrible memories people would all sooner forget, me included. (note i managed not to use that "C" word.)

I like some of the Lightwave 2015 features.
but in no way will i ever consider getting lightwave 11 I didn't when it was around, so why would i now?

sure you can disagree with my point of view and trot out all manner of arguments, yet here I am...not a happy bunny..
I'll get over it!

spherical
11-25-2014, 04:01 PM
Heh, that's the chance you take and now are out of the deal. Still, with the new lower pricing schedule, you get the new version for the Post-Charter price anyway. Just isn't necessarily going to stay at that price point through the next few builds. Again, it's the chance you take. First chance was on how the feature set improved; which you didn't like, second is on the new price; whatever that will be. Your choice.

hrgiger
11-25-2014, 04:03 PM
hi..my 2 pennies.

I think it's probably the most absurd thing i've ever come across...to be pushed to a deadline (30 days) to upgrade to a OLD version of Lightwave to keep a discount on "future versions" alive...when the future version has been released!

totally nutty...honestly..nuts i tell ya!

this is VERY AUTODESK in nature...of course we're also fortunate it's only a silly "option"...we'll simply laugh it off as some drunken idea dreamt up at the water cooler at a newtek party.

come over here...right...stand still for a moment...here...try my shoes on...right heads up...okay your're in my shoes now...
okay?...come on stop laughing!...yes it's stupid...i know...see...daft idea.

would have been better to just say to 10 users..your done son...you;re off hardcore....here buy lightwave 2015
I'm certainly not in the mood to pay $395 dollars for nothing ( won't ever install/use lw11) and then another $395 dollars for the thing i'll use - lw2015.

you need to have another look, from our perspective..."we" didn't think lw11 was worth upgrading to...so don't push us into a deadline
when the next version comes along...i "get it" but it's VERY unpalatable and certainly not a newtek thing i recognise.

Lol Steve, you've had 3 years to upgrade to LW11. The deal was you had to buy every version to keep the hardcore pricing including LW 11. I can understand it doesn't make sense at this point to upgrade to LW11 and then 2015 just to keep the pricing, but I think you might be looking at it maybe not in the right light. Overall, what other company would give you a price guarantee on 5 future versions of their software. The answer is 0 in case you're not sure.

Nicolas Jordan
11-25-2014, 04:04 PM
Maybe I don't understand this completely but say for example a user has version 10 but hasn't yet upgraded to version 11 could they not just pay the current standard upgrade price of $495 and upgrade straight to Lightwave 2015?

cresshead
11-25-2014, 04:06 PM
Heh, that's the chance you take and now are out of the deal. Still, with the new lower pricing schedule, you get the new version for the Post-Charter price anyway. Just isn't necessarily going to stay at that price point through the next few builds.

okay sit down...

"lower price"
um....well...look... there was a speeding car and well.... a bad thing happened !

okay so we've moved from a historically accurate 2-3 year life cycle to a 12 month life cycle now with the YEAR tag stapled on the end of "Lightwave"
so at $500 per year Vs $395 per release cycle (old lightwave with a number after it)

the price has doubled or tripled in reality.

man...i'm just the harbinger of doom here arn't I !!!

spherical
11-25-2014, 04:07 PM
Maybe I don't understand this completely but say for example a user has version 10 but hasn't yet upgraded to version 11 could they not just pay the current standard upgrade price of $495 and upgrade straight to Lightwave 2015?

Of course. The new $495 deal is available to everyone -- in or out of the Charter deal; which some Post-Charter members aren't too happy about. Heck, you can upgrade directly to 2015 from 5.5 or earlier for the same price.

lwanmtr
11-25-2014, 04:09 PM
Yeah, my understanding is LW10 or 9 even could upgrade for 495...decent price. It was only if you wanted to keep the $395 price you have to buy each one.

Considering too, that its been years since the last time I had to pay for an update (LW 11), $495 isnt too much...specially if you compare it to the other apps.

Snosrap
11-25-2014, 04:11 PM
Maybe I don't understand this completely but say for example a user has version 10 but hasn't yet upgraded to version 11 could they not just pay the current standard upgrade price of $495 and upgrade straight to Lightwave 2015? Yep. Just lose any price guarantee of $394 or $495 respectively on the next releases. If I had 9.6 or 10, I'd jump on 2015 in heartbeat at $495.

cresshead
11-25-2014, 04:12 PM
Maybe I don't understand this completely but say for example a user has version 10 but hasn't yet upgraded to version 11 could they not just pay the current standard upgrade price of $495 and upgrade straight to Lightwave 2015?

YES this is indeed the "sensible option"
the "stupid option" alternate option i've outlined above...

by dropping out of hardcore I'll "lose" at most $100 over 5 release cycles...BUT i'm then at the steering wheel not some drunk party animal saying..hey buddy...let's upgrade to that old version you didn't want!...whoo hoo...top me up!

bottom line i'm happy to be OFF subscription, was a silly idea any how.

jasonwestmas
11-25-2014, 04:13 PM
Maybe I don't understand this completely but say for example a user has version 10 but hasn't yet upgraded to version 11 could they not just pay the current standard upgrade price of $495 and upgrade straight to Lightwave 2015?

yes but you would loose your charter membership in that case if you didn't pay for your LW 11 upgrade. I see this has already been answered lol.

hrgiger
11-25-2014, 04:22 PM
YES this is indeed the "sensible option"
the "stupid option" alternate option i've outlined above...

by dropping out of hardcore I'll "lose" at most $100 over 5 release cycles...BUT i'm then at the steering wheel not some drunk party animal saying..hey buddy...let's upgrade to that old version you didn't want!...whoo hoo...top me up!

bottom line i'm happy to be OFF subscription, was a silly idea any how.

Well, of course that depends on what the price of LightWave changes (if it does) over the course of the next 3 upgrades. For LW11 it was $695 for non HC members so the savings was $300 for us. But this time around its only $100. Spin the wheel and hope for continued cheaper upgrades!

cresshead
11-25-2014, 04:38 PM
Okay...had my 23 pennies worth of thoughts...other than the pricing/frequency/hardbore things lightwave 2015 looking pretty cool actually from a standpoint of upgrading from lightwave 10

so main thing i'd like to see are some more detailed feature videos from newtek on lightwave 2015

amorano
11-25-2014, 04:55 PM
First off, great release, really good to see LW thinking more long term now with some of the under the hood changes.

I have to call out one thing I read in there:


While it is true that we did indeed provide amazing value to our customers throughout the 11.x cycle we are ultimately running a business and it is unrealistic to expect to get free product releases indefinitely.

While I agree that is A business model, it is not the ONLY business model.

I bought Zbrush from Siggraph 2000, version 1.23b. I have never, ever since, paid for an upgrade.

I am not advocating that you never have people pay for upgrades (where is this utopia), but, let's put it out there that in 14 years Pixologic's model of zero charge upgrades has not destroyed their company value, only increased it.

And their user base has grown immensely.

Just saying, depending on the size of that base of users, sometimes it is "ok" to pass a few off to gain their renewed loyalty versus the dissention and potential loss of customers, and it is not "unrealistic" to do so.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 04:56 PM
Well, of course that depends on what the price of LightWave changes (if it does) over the course of the next 3 upgrades. For LW11 it was $695 for non HC members so the savings was $300 for us. But this time around its only $100. Spin the wheel and hope for continued cheaper upgrades!

Considering they have named LW12 LW2015, it seems that they may be on a yearly upgrade cycle? If so, it seems highly unlikely that they will raise the price. While the development team is very good, I doubt that they can infuse enough within 12 months (or thereabouts) to make it worthy to increase the price from $495. I would also bet that they will sell more upgrades at $495 than $695. ;) And if they can do that EVERY year, they will still make far more cash and users will more than likely get less for each upgrade cycle. This most likely IS their plan to acquire more cash in less time.

wesleycorgi
11-25-2014, 05:01 PM
I will never lose my charter membership! (I've got the card to prove it somewhere around here.) If I recall correctly, post-Core Rob had mentioned that they would move to a shorter production cycle. That is why the 11 cycle was a happy surprise (to me).

So in my mind, the change of the name to 2015 is a signal: 1) They will attempt to keep an annual production cycle, B) 11 was so long because they had to figure out how to make that transition to a more modern architecture/major changes under the hood, and III) we will see the acceleration of those changes with the more regular cycle

The problem with the perceived "vanishing act" LW3DG did over the last few months is that they po'ed a bunch of loyal users. I think it was a miscalculation on a lot of levels by LW3DG. The team should have been conditioning the market, setting expectations, etc. since Siggraph. A) On the positive side, they would have drummed up some demand. ii) For those that had high expectations, they could temper those folks. 3) And all this time, the forums could have been talking about some positive stuff vs. "did Rob leave."

Personally, I don't think I will upgrade immediately (as I did with the Core membership and 11). The features aren't critical (right now), but all it will take is a project that I can leverage the new feature set. And to be honest, the Perspective stuff I could use today — so it may be sooner rather than later. Also, I may be tempted to void my membership if a killer bundle happens (I would consider an upgrade bundle that had Octane or LWCAD, now that I see that the HC charter upgrade isn't saving me all that much in the scheme of things).

I won't threaten to move to Blender (I use it for a few things, but can't stand it) or Modo (I maintain a license, but still prefer LW on a day-to-day basis). And overall, I agree with Rob that he has the team in place to do great things with the software.

Chris S. (Fez)
11-25-2014, 05:03 PM
Looks like a great release. I won't have time to buy and try until after Xmas. Can any testers please tell me: Is 2015 Modeler faster and capable of handling more geometry? Is Layout faster and capable of handling more geometry? Is VPR faster?

wesleycorgi
11-25-2014, 05:09 PM
BTW, what I have seen thus far with 2015 is all positive. Everything seems speedier in both Modeler and Layout. I do crash (but I crash on LW11). The VPR renders just seem to pop, not sure if it is the Importance Sample thing-a-ma-jig. I look forward to seeing any of the related videos for deeper dives into the features.

Sylver
11-25-2014, 05:24 PM
I will release a beta build this week with the new FiberFX support, but meanwhile I think that it is safe to use the current Octane for 11.6 with LW 2015.

-Juanjo

Juanjo, any chance to get particles/hypervoxels in LW 2015 like with FiberFX using Octane? If so, that would be a BIG motivator for me to upgrade...

adk
11-25-2014, 05:28 PM
FBX and Surface editor wise ... muchos gracias !!!
I can finally bring in a CityEngine fbx with all materials and textures intact, without having to deal with the 100's of extra surfaces.
Multi select surfaces and editing /changing them en-masse is butter smooth, probably because of having way less to deal with in the first place.
Can you please make the new surface clip maps work in modeler tho, or have I missed something ?

EDIT - as in make them visible and work as expected - ala transparency channel. I realise this is legacy modeler / openGL related but as it stands we still need to copy the settings to transparency to have any visual feedback. Cheers.

jeric_synergy
11-25-2014, 05:36 PM
To add to my previous post, unfortunately the help file is in the wrong place. When pressing F1 there is an error (see below). Tip: Move the pdf file to the help folder, then F1 works. I personally find this is a silly bug that should have been found while testing.

125689

125690
FogBug it.

jeric_synergy
11-25-2014, 05:41 PM
Cresshead, achh, never mind.

sukardi
11-25-2014, 05:49 PM
On the face of it, this looks like an underwhelming release. BUT ...

1. Further development of bullet and genoma - what they should have done with ikbooster and hypervoxel. So, I am loving this direction ..
2. Surface clip map. This should have been done a long time ago but for me, this alone could be worth the price of upgrade...
3. Importance sampling. Add significant value to an already versatile renderer.
4. FiberFX in Octane. Not in itself a deal breaker but I like the direction where this is going. Excited to see what Kray will come up with.

In the end at the day, this does not look like a definitive 2015 release yet. It seems that by calling it LW2015, they need to release something before 2015. I am expecting a big feature release for Siggraph 2015. (finger crossed)

Specifically, I am hoping for at least micropolygon displacement within the 2015 cycle.

Will I upgrade? Definitely but probably waiting the LW3DG to throw in some freebies for the Xmas offer or something like that ...

Cageman
11-25-2014, 06:21 PM
you need to have another look, from our perspective..."we" didn't think lw11 was worth upgrading to...so don't push us into a deadline
when the next version comes along...i "get it" but it's VERY unpalatable and certainly not a newtek thing i recognise.

LW11 is the best cycle of LW so far. I'm not sure who you refer to when you say "we" in that sentence. Maybe you should say "I"?

tyrot
11-25-2014, 06:29 PM
1- ikbooster original coder left NT years ago - so no love in that end..Hypervoxel - lets not talk about it.. really depressing..(Bullet is basically an implementation .. and genoma will be fine)
2- surface clip map was a must have years ago - octane does not need it.. so i do not need it...Native renderer users may enjoy it.
3- Importance sampling if you render something with LW's native renderer matters.. Octaners do not care..
4- That is the only area for an Octane user - say "wow" ..lets see what s gonna happen..

Single camera -perspective is good for if you do just still frame rendering...I do not know but ..C4D has its own 3d motion tracker.. i do not know where we are right now... by the way... we do not even have camera view for modeler ...
FBX export looks pretty promising.. I did not try it out with Motionbuilder's blenshapes .. i hope it does export morph animations right now..

cresshead
11-25-2014, 06:40 PM
LW11 is the best cycle of LW so far. I'm not sure who you refer to when you say "we" in that sentence. Maybe you should say "I"?

"we" refers to the users currently on 10 that didn't find anything compelling to upgrade to 11 and unless you have the actual user numbers and "I" am the only person on planet earth still with lightwave 10.

...yeh you asked...

:)

anyhow

let's see some feature videos from lightsnack 2015

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 06:47 PM
LW11 is the best cycle of LW so far. I'm not sure who you refer to when you say "we" in that sentence. Maybe you should say "I"?
Well, for me personally, the LW9.x development cycle was better than 11. And there was virtually no LW10.x development cycle at all - which is why I don't have LW10 any more.

jasonwestmas
11-25-2014, 06:50 PM
Well, for me personally, the LW9.x development cycle was better than 11.

Adding in the node editor was HUGE. Bigger than the whole VPR thing. I would agree in that respect. I'm hoping for something just as big as the node editor to be added some day.

Cageman
11-25-2014, 06:55 PM
Well, for me personally, the LW9.x development cycle was better than 11. And there was virtually no LW10.x development cycle at all - which is why I don't have LW10 any more.

I agree with you on parts, that LW9.x was better. Overall, though, regarding functionality, LW11 series refined a lot that LW9.x stood for, and, on top of that, added many features that were needed.

It is also very easy to forget that renderengines, such as Arnold and Octane, were a lot harder to implement in LW9.x compared to LW11.x. And now with 2015, FiberFX can be used in Octane (and soon Arnold). Changes that are not so important to the enduser, as in a feature, makes things like that possible (SDK stuff... coder stuff).

Something to have in mind when evaluating a software as well. :)

- - - Updated - - -


Adding in the node editor what HUGE. Bigger than the whole VPR thing. I would agree in that respect. I'm hoping for something just as big as the node editor to be added some day.

I'm quite sure things will move forward... ;)

spherical
11-25-2014, 06:55 PM
Okay...had my 23 pennies worth of thoughts...other than the pricing/frequency/hardbore things lightwave 2015 looking pretty cool actually from a standpoint of upgrading from lightwave 10

so main thing i'd like to see are some more detailed feature videos from newtek on lightwave 2015

Lino addressed this: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144545-Lightwave-2015-revealed!&p=1410070&viewfull=1#post1410070

Snosrap
11-25-2014, 06:58 PM
Edit menus has a cool search now. But they ought to put the word "Search" in faint letters in the box! Also the on screen mouse rotate icon, pan icon and zoom icon - match the the little screen widgets icons in the upper right corners of your views.
125693

jasonwestmas
11-25-2014, 07:45 PM
I'm quite sure things will move forward... ;)

Yes, but will it be huge?

erikals
11-25-2014, 07:53 PM
i like LightWave 2015

but it feels a bit like 65%
basically no new Modeler tools

hope to see some more Modeler improvements this year,

Siggraph 2015 ?

Cageman
11-25-2014, 08:02 PM
jasonwestmas: Clean up your inbox... ;)

lwanmtr
11-25-2014, 08:02 PM
One thing I miss from the 9.x days is the open beta...alotta bugs got squished in quick time during that..I think partly because we had a dedicated forum we could post issues and verify if they were bugs or not before filing reports.

jasonwestmas
11-25-2014, 08:04 PM
jasonwestmas: Clean up your inbox... ;)

lol, what this isn't gmail? Cleaned.

Greenlaw
11-25-2014, 08:05 PM
I don't want to get into a fight here but my feeling is that 11 was vastly superior to 10, at least with regards to what I needed to do my work. If it hadn't been, I probably would have switched to something else by now. (I had almost given up on LW during the 9.x - CORE cycles.)

10 kinda got things back on track for me, but the things I found most valuable in 11 and use nearly every day was (in no particular order):


Better and faster render quality
Bullet - both for rigid and deforming bodies
Improved FBX support
Flocking
Instances, now with motion vector output support)
FiberFX that actually works, also with motion vector output support)
GoZ
Send To AE
MDD Multi-Loader
MD Multi-Baker
Various New Modeling Tools


If the 2015 cycle takes off like 11 did, it should be an exciting ride. IMO, it's already off to a good start.

G.

jwiede
11-25-2014, 08:08 PM
In the end at the day, this does not look like a definitive 2015 release yet. It seems that by calling it LW2015, they need to release something before 2015. I am expecting a big feature release for Siggraph 2015. (finger crossed)

Specifically, I am hoping for at least micropolygon displacement within the 2015 cycle.

Your proposed scenario would require them to produce both a multiple-new-feature-bearing mid-2015-cycle release _and_ then also produce a LW2016 version release (also with multiple new features) both within CY2015. That doesn't seem particularly realistic, considering the scale of recent LW3DG releases and the work durations involved.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 08:09 PM
If the 2015 cycle takes off like 11 did, it should be an exciting ride. IMO, it's already off to a good start.
If I were betting, I'd bet against this. Simply going by the title of the software - LW 2015 - seems to indicate a release EVERY year or so. You can't have development like that in LW11.x with only about 12 months of development. IMO of course. ;)

wesleycorgi
11-25-2014, 08:12 PM
Looks like a great release. I won't have time to buy and try until after Xmas. Can any testers please tell me: Is 2015 Modeler faster and capable of handling more geometry? Is Layout faster and capable of handling more geometry? Is VPR faster?

This doesn't answer your question, but it will give you some info: loading a 16million poly object in Modeler2015 took 2min 20sec, and Modeler11.6.3 3min 50sec. There is still a bit of lag in screen render when rotating/panning/zooming in Modeler2015, but in Wireframe mode it wasn't too bad and was much snappier than v11.6.3.

Loading the same object in Layout2015 took 39sec, while 80sec in Layout11.6.3. VPR2015 render of the object within seconds, while VPR11.6.3 took tens of seconds to resolve.

I tried to do the Marble benchmark, but got bored. Will probably try later.

Nicolas Jordan
11-25-2014, 08:23 PM
If I were betting, I'd bet against this. Simply going by the title of the software - LW 2015 - seems to indicate a release EVERY year or so. You can't have development like that in LW11.x with only about 12 months of development. IMO of course. ;)

Yes I think the only updates we will probably get between yearly releases now will be a few bug fixes.

Sylver
11-25-2014, 08:47 PM
Yes I think the only updates we will probably get between yearly releases now will be a few bug fixes.

That's my fear as well... and hopefully not to the tune of $495 each year. $295 a year for a modest feature enhancement and bug-squashing is acceptable, otherwise I'll likely consider Modo.

I love LW, but Modo has a similar feel and much better... wait for it... MODELER.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 08:52 PM
Yes I think the only updates we will probably get between yearly releases now will be a few bug fixes.


That's my fear as well... and hopefully not to the tune of $495 each year. $295 a year for a modest feature enhancement and bug-squashing is acceptable, otherwise I'll likely consider Modo.

I love LW, but Modo has a similar feel and much better... wait for it... MODELER.

Considering their replies about the HardCORE membership pricing - no additional discount there - I have a feeling that this is the LW3DG's way of increasing revenue. This is their version of "subscription." IMO - if they were wise - the next update should be NO MORE than $395 (if a yearly release schedule is the plan) and give HC members a larger discount. Of course if they plan on skipping LW2016 and going to LW2017 with a longer development cycle, no change in pricing is really warranted.

Sylver
11-25-2014, 09:37 PM
Considering their replies about the HardCORE membership pricing - no additional discount there - I have a feeling that this is the LW3DG's way of increasing revenue. This is their version of "subscription." IMO - if they were wise - the next update should be NO MORE than $395 (if a yearly release schedule is the plan) and give HC members a larger discount. Of course if they plan on skipping LW2016 and going to LW2017 with a longer development cycle, no change in pricing is really warranted.

But if LW2015 is all we get until 2017? =(

GraphXs
11-25-2014, 09:41 PM
I dont think they will release it yearly, i hope its about a 2yr cycle for full releases.I also hope they do a 2015.5 w/some minor new features and bug squashing!

spherical
11-25-2014, 10:00 PM
That's what I put my money on. Just because a product is labeled with a year number does not necessarily mean that it is anything other than the model-year when it is released. Hanging on the year as a justification that it will now become a 12 month cycle isn't really sound.

Kaptive
11-25-2014, 10:07 PM
Yes I think the only updates we will probably get between yearly releases now will be a few bug fixes.

I think ...or certainly hope that your thoughts are eventually proved as pessimistic. It would be out of keeping for how they do things imho. Some of the best features have come out of the point releases. I don't think this cycle will be any different.. maybe shorter.

Snosrap
11-25-2014, 10:08 PM
My guess is that with going to the 2015 moniker NT will just give us service packs. i.e. 2015 SP1, 2015 SP2 etc. etc.. No no features just fixes. 2016, 2017 etc. etc. would have new features.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 10:17 PM
My guess is that with going to the 2015 moniker NT will just give us service packs. i.e. 2015 SP1, 2015 SP2 etc. etc.. No no features just fixes. 2016, 2017 etc. etc. would have new features.

I agree with this for the most part. I do think that they will have a few small surprises during the year, but I do exect a yearly release now AND it will be a paid release every year. No facts, just speculation.

Oedo 808
11-25-2014, 10:28 PM
LightWave 2015 is so called because they knew LightWave 13 was coming up and wanted to avoid it as everyone would be too scared to buy it.

spherical
11-25-2014, 10:52 PM
I'll align with that.

vncnt
11-25-2014, 11:46 PM
[ok, edit]

In my experience some features need a lot of preparations/development and some features are almost for free if the designer can make a connection between the modules that are available at that moment.

That second type of feature is glamorous but the foundation for the first type of feature is the hard work.
Results are never born in a linear fashion.

My reasons to upgrade to LW2015 is not only driven by results per euro but by confidence too.

Megalodon2.0
11-25-2014, 11:53 PM
Yes you can.

In my experience some features need a lot of preparations/development and some features are almost for free if the designer can make a connection between the modules that are available at that moment.

That second type of feature is glamorous but the foundation for the first type of feature is the hard work.
Results are never born in a linear fashion.

My reasons to upgrade to LW2015 is not only driven by results per euro but by confidence too.

I don't quite understand your point. I agree with everything you've said.

Shloime
11-26-2014, 12:24 AM
Just because a product is labeled with a year number does not necessarily mean that it is anything other than the model-year when it is released. Hanging on the year as a justification that it will now become a 12 month cycle isn't really sound.

I still remember the versions of Windows 96, 97 and 99... They sucked. :)

jeric_synergy
11-26-2014, 12:47 AM
My guess is ....
A guess.

prometheus
11-26-2014, 01:08 AM
here´s a lightwave 2015 bullet ragdoll bone sample showcase...looks cool, I wonder if I could use that and let a guy fall down in my earthquake crack I am fiddling with.
From RyanRoye....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5XnZl1jrlk

MarcusM
11-26-2014, 02:19 AM
I tried send mail with 51Mb file and got return.

<[email protected]>: message size 75892491 exceeds size limit 26214400 of server mail.lightwave3d.com[54.243.145.73]

BeeVee
11-26-2014, 02:26 AM
I wouldn't ever send mail with more than 2 MB of attachment if I could help it. Send a link to a URL instead, where you've put the file.

B

walfridson
11-26-2014, 02:28 AM
Some people have mentioned improvements to fbx export.
What are these? (other than 2015 format support)

Doesn't say much on the official page other than bumping the version.
Which was on http://www.vfxplatform.com/ for 2014 btw ;)

lino.grandi
11-26-2014, 02:45 AM
All I can say now, considering how LightWave2015 has been welcomed by the users in general (thank you, thank you, thank you!), is that the future never looked brighter.

You're giving us a lot of strength, and be sure we'll be using it to take LightWave to the edge every year!

pinkmouse
11-26-2014, 02:54 AM
...every year!

I think that answers that question. :D

Look forward to downloading the demo and having a play. Got to finish building a "real world" stage set first though.

HenrikSkoglund
11-26-2014, 03:13 AM
Thank you Rob and the LW3DG Team for what seems like a nice release! ;)

Is there any info on exactly how different Genoma 2 is vs the first iteration? Can't find any specifics...

BeeVee
11-26-2014, 03:23 AM
Genoma 2 is more of a Rigging Development Kit than just a set of pre-made parts to put together. It coexists with Genoma 1 so that users at different levels can use what suits them best, but best if Lino gives you a fuller explanation.

B

Otterman
11-26-2014, 03:27 AM
Where are these files, I have the Mac trial version but nothing I can find in the sub folders resembles the content files. Anyone?

EDIT: Oops quote didnt carry over.......IM LOOKING FOR THE CONTENT FILES! I wanna play with em see.

Cheers

motivalex
11-26-2014, 03:48 AM
As well as the upcoming revamped modeler (as hinted by Rob), can we expect a future release of Lightwave to have a more streamlined interface? All the windows and dialogue boxes I have to go through drives me nuts. Dual monitor does help with scene editor and graph editor somewhat, but a serious modernisation of the UI is needed. It's all looking positive so far for Lightwave.

probiner
11-26-2014, 03:53 AM
A guess.

At least it wasn't a wrong assumption about the architecture. Or an annoying type formatting. :D

We can only guess because LWG are not being open about this 2015 thing. We know there was a 11.7. Now a 2015 comes out, but they aren't saying there will be a 2016... So all we can do is speculate...

raw-m
11-26-2014, 03:55 AM
Looking forward to those Genoma tute updates, Lino - definitely need someone to throw me a bone (haha!) on some of those new property boxes :D

50one
11-26-2014, 04:12 AM
Just updated, looking forward to playing with it.

Emmanuel
11-26-2014, 04:13 AM
(picking up breadcrumbs) Lino, what do You mean *every year* ? Isnt LW gonna be updated more often than once a year ?

Andy Webb
11-26-2014, 04:21 AM
Well I welcome the new release and well done LW3DG.

But like a few people on here I am disappointed that nothing of any real significance has been done with modeller :grumpy:

There may well be important "under the hood changes", but without seeing this in real world tools it seems a disappointment.

It might also be worth noting that I loaded a LW11.6.2 scene file into LW2015 and re-saved it, loaded it back into LW11 and the instances had changed position.

Now I realise this is asking for trouble, but I thought it was worth a warning while people are playing with the demo version, not to save anything out of LW2015
that they are likely to need to use in LW11.

Lets keep hoping for some modeller love very soon :D:thumbsup:

willin
11-26-2014, 04:23 AM
If I were betting, I'd bet against this. Simply going by the title of the software - LW 2015 - seems to indicate a release EVERY year or so. You can't have development like that in LW11.x with only about 12 months of development. IMO of course. ;)

There are a lot of software out there that have the year naming convention that don't put out an upgrade every year simply because it is almost impossible to put out a worthwhile upgrade every year. Only companies that are out for a money grab and don't care about the quality of the upgrade put out an upgrade every year regardless of whether there are reasonable improvements and bug kills to the software or not. I personally don't care about the naming convention and I wouldn't put too much thought into whats behind it. In a way it would have been nice to have started out with that naming convention from the beginning. I started using lightwave in 1994 and right know if someone told me that they were going to give me a million dollar to tell them what version of lightwave i first used, i would not be able to tell them. With this naming convention it would be simple, "Lightwave 1994".

OlaHaldor
11-26-2014, 04:30 AM
2015 haven't even begun yet, and we have NO idea what's coming the next 13 months. For all we know, the release of LW3D 2015 was done now to make it clear that they ARE working on something, so the crowd that's been shouting, kicking and screaming and begging for information from the silent crowd at LW3DG would calm down and enjoy the ride.

The fact is that it's been released. Whether you like the tools and updates that came with it now, doesn't render the entire cycle of 2015 bad. Let's see what's coming around the corner. I'm pretty sure they won't turn the back to us now until LW3D 2016 arrives.

willin
11-26-2014, 04:36 AM
At least it wasn't a wrong assumption about the architecture. Or an annoying type formatting. :D

We can only guess because LWG are not being open about this 2015 thing. We know there was a 11.7. Now a 2015 comes out, but they aren't saying there will be a 2016... So all we can do is speculate...

Or we can get to work with the tools we have now and see if they work for us and if they don't find a software package that will get us to where we want to go. For sure speculation and guessing is not going to get our work done.

MarcusM
11-26-2014, 04:37 AM
In Layout 2015 Demo i not see icon for saving image from VPR.

I send also mail on bug adress with drop box link. New bug adress sending back a confirmation?

50one
11-26-2014, 04:42 AM
Boom!

Can anyone checkout this scene from the content for me please?

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50676316/snake-oh-snaaaake.jpg

MAUROCOR
11-26-2014, 04:46 AM
2015 haven't even begun yet, and we have NO idea what's coming the next 13 months. For all we know, the release of LW3D 2015 was done now to make it clear that they ARE working on something, so the crowd that's been shouting, kicking and screaming and begging for information from the silent crowd at LW3DG would calm down and enjoy the ride.

The fact is that it's been released. Whether you like the tools and updates that came with it now, doesn't render the entire cycle of 2015 bad. Let's see what's coming around the corner. I'm pretty sure they won't turn the back to us now until LW3D 2016 arrives.

Bravo!!!!

adk
11-26-2014, 04:47 AM
Boom!

Can anyone checkout this scene from the content for me please?



Works fine here 50one ... win7, 64 bit, stock standard install

lwanmtr
11-26-2014, 04:47 AM
I just loaded that scene...loaded ok..

50one
11-26-2014, 04:51 AM
Works fine here 50one ... win7, 64 bit, stock standard install

cheers adk & lwanmtr, oddly enough restarted machine and re-loaded scene, abused the timeline, keys, material editor, VPR and no crash so far!:thumbsup:

adk
11-26-2014, 04:57 AM
No problem. My only crash with 2015 was with modeler, just plain old crashed while loading itself up :) go figure.
So far it's all been pretty solid and snappy.

Hieron
11-26-2014, 05:29 AM
The fact is that it's been released. Whether you like the tools and updates that came with it now, doesn't render the entire cycle of 2015 bad. Let's see what's coming around the corner. I'm pretty sure they won't turn the back to us now until LW3D 2016 arrives.

Don't be surprised if this is it besides bug fixes, and see fancy new features in a paid 2016/2017 version.
That's what would make sense imho and I thought it was mentioned by Rob that they weren't planning on doing features in point upgrades?

The long 11 cycle did spoil us a bit.. and was great (excessive?) value

Still, the choice at hand: 400 euro ex VAT price (half of full license) for a jump from 11.6.3 to 2015 is no amazing value. I guess I'll upgrade regardless in the end, but that is more as support to LW3DG than a dire need of features included.

Sylver
11-26-2014, 05:32 AM
Where are these files, I have the Mac trial version but nothing I can find in the sub folders resembles the content files. Anyone?

EDIT: Oops quote didnt carry over.......IM LOOKING FOR THE CONTENT FILES! I wanna play with em see.

Cheers

Check your Newtek account page, it's listed there for download just under the LW 2015 section as "LightWave 2015 Content"

achilles
11-26-2014, 05:34 AM
Hallo to you all. I'm a Charter member and would post two questions. The answers are important to make me decide if upgrade or not.
1 If i don't buy LW 2015 UPGRADE will go out from Charter membership?
2 Is there any probbility during 2015 version to see new and improved Modeler?
Thanks.
Achille

50one
11-26-2014, 05:51 AM
....Where the docs though??

Sylver
11-26-2014, 06:07 AM
....Where the docs though??

C:\Program Files\NewTek\LightWave_2015\docs\LightWave2015.pdf

Default location on the PC...

50one
11-26-2014, 06:12 AM
thanks! always downloaded them....

anyway, checkout the "spring_train" scene from the Bullet folder - edit the damping factor as described - change it to 25 - play the anim(it stops immediately), then change to 26(it just keeps bouncing like for 40/50/60/100 almost no difference in bounciness)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50676316/wonky-bullet.jpg

Wondering if it's wonky bullet or wonky implementation:)

raw-m
11-26-2014, 06:12 AM
Been working with it all morning and it's been a pleasure, on a Mac, too! Layout feels a lot more snappy and stable and noticing little workflow additions that are good to see. Even forces in Bullet have a little bit of visual feedback, esp when working with gradients (still needs a bit of work, though).

All in all, very pleased so far. Well done LWG!

Otterman
11-26-2014, 06:13 AM
Check your Newtek account page, it's listed there for download just under the LW 2015 section as "LightWave 2015 Content"

Nope still cant see it. That said I have yet to register the trial version for the 30 day licence key. Perhaps it will appear then.

Thanks buddy

alexs3d
11-26-2014, 06:24 AM
i am also playing with the trial version, it feels fast and stable.

i like the new features a lot, the match perspective tool makes fun and it is great to have this tool inside of lw.
clipmaps for textures are awesome for trees and is a long wanted feature.
the parenter is super easy, love it, but it could be in the menubar, had a hard time finding this feature :) also in the docs stands nothing where it is located.

i also like the texture falloff in modeler and the bullet constraints are fun to play.

its a pitty that modeler did not get much attention, but i am confident that we see some cool things in the future from the LWG.

THANKS for the great update LWG

DNA87
11-26-2014, 06:37 AM
I'm a little disappointed with this release. Theres some cool rigging stuff and Ocatane additions but double click to deselect as a selling feature says this is a bit short on ground breaking additions. UV'ing tools are far from complete and more comprehensive normal map compatibility other than Screen Space would be more crucial additions.

On the plus side genoma 2 and new bullet additions are looking good so im looking forward to checking that out.

Nicolas Jordan
11-26-2014, 06:45 AM
While I was playing around with the trial version I noticed a nice little change to something that has annoyed me for years. You can now collapse the dope sheet in the scene editor and it remembers and keeps the dope sheet closed the next time you open it. I always close the side with the dope sheet when I'm not using it in order to save space. A nice little tweak to the UI!

hrgiger
11-26-2014, 07:06 AM
Honestly the Bullet improvements are probably what will make me upgrade eventually. I know some people see the update overall as a little light but considering all the free feature updates we got with LightWave 11, I still see LightWave as a good value. With this update, the comingLWCAD 5 release as well as the free Zbrush 4R7 update coming soon, should keep me satisfied for a little while.

Spinland
11-26-2014, 07:51 AM
I know that everyone has total right to their opinion; my take on the economics of this upgrade is just different from many of the commenters.

Lightwave is an important tool in how I make my living, and the cost of the upgrade to 2015 I already made up in just yesterday's work. I'm excited to explore Genoma 2 (I've come to rely on Genoma for rapid rigging prototyping, and can easily forgive the occasional need to tweak the resulting skeleton), and the new Bullet stuff looks great. I'm sure other new tools will pop up to please me over time, but those are two of the big deals in what I do.

As I see it, Lightwave continuing to be economically viable for NewTek is critical to my not needing to start over from nearly square one with some other modeling/animating tool and, if by keeping current on the upgrades (that pay for themselves) I can help keep them afloat, I am on board for the long haul.

lino.grandi
11-26-2014, 08:01 AM
thanks! always downloaded them....

anyway, checkout the "spring_train" scene from the Bullet folder - edit the damping factor as described - change it to 25 - play the anim(it stops immediately), then change to 26(it just keeps bouncing like for 40/50/60/100 almost no difference in bounciness)



Wondering if it's wonky bullet or wonky implementation:)

Please use the damping options of the rigid body! ;)

erikals
11-26-2014, 08:24 AM
any guarantee that we would see a few more Modeler updates in 2015 ?

Andy Webb
11-26-2014, 08:37 AM
any guarantee that we would see a few more Modeler updates in 2015 ?

+1

GandB
11-26-2014, 08:42 AM
For anyone interested; reactions at CGTalk: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1236255&utm_medium=plugblock&utm_source=cgtalk

50one
11-26-2014, 09:07 AM
Please use the damping options of the rigid body! ;)

That's what I'm doing - actually increasing the number (200 / 400/ 600/ 800) is giving the results I was after - shortening the damping cycle.

jasonwestmas
11-26-2014, 09:14 AM
With this update, the comingLWCAD 5 release as well as the free Zbrush 4R7 update coming soon, should keep me satisfied for a little while.

I'm not an archviz person so I can see myself doing all my modeling in zbrush really soon. Then tweaking things in front of the camera in my rendering app.

jeric_synergy
11-26-2014, 09:22 AM
At least it wasn't a wrong assumption about the architecture. Or an annoying type formatting. :D
Annoying? GOAL ACHIEVED.

AND: I'm not proven wrong about the architecture, just unconfirmed.

Shouldn't you be exploring the new features?

djlithium
11-26-2014, 09:24 AM
any guarantee that we would see a few more Modeler updates in 2015 ?

There absolutely should be - I can't imagine it having to suck for much longer. My understanding is that James is taking the reigns since the departure of Ikeda and that should translate into progress. They do need more people working on modeler though in general. I think the LWG needs like 6 more people at least. 3 working on Modeler alone.

snsmoore
11-26-2014, 09:36 AM
LWG, Big thanks for putting intersecting edges into this update! Almost made it worth the upgrade price for me! I was working on a scene last night where I dropped a "toon" tree into the scene and just "planted" it into the ground and thought, "I should set intersecting edges", so I did. It created a nice outline where the ground intersects with the trees.

Ah, the simple things like this are truly appreciated!

Dan_Ritchie
11-26-2014, 09:43 AM
True it doesn't feel like a huge update, but it has a whole lot of stuff in it. I mean, it's not something you're going to go on the newsgroups and say, "Look what LW can do now!" But it is something you're going to appreciate more and more as you use it every day.
The subpatch rendering stuff does look really cool though, as does the springs and hinges. That mushroom thing is adorable.

ernesttx
11-26-2014, 09:45 AM
Where do we send feature requests to? and see what is already there, so we don't duplicate requests. Thanks.

tyrot
11-26-2014, 09:56 AM
kat - how about - just Victor - give the modeler to him... that is it :)

madno
11-26-2014, 10:19 AM
I didn't want to do it. Really, this time I didn't want to do it. Believe me! I wanted to wait and see. How does it work? Do the pros complain about bugs? Do they like the new stuff? You know, I didn't needed to do it. No one is pressing me with deadlines or wants fancy bullet animations from me. I have a job, that has nothing do to with Lightwave. What I have works for me (ok Modeler somehow and this mainly because of LWCad).

That said, I should not have loaded a hdr and switch on importance sampling. Damn! This Paypal button took away my self-control so easily again. What a weak personality I have. Bad for me (money is gone), good for LW3DG (money arrived).

:-)

JohnMarchant
11-26-2014, 10:25 AM
I use LWCad probably every day and most not for ArchViz, LWCad has saved me so much time in the past.

ernpchan
11-26-2014, 10:27 AM
Where do we send feature requests to? and see what is already there, so we don't duplicate requests. Thanks.

If your account page on the ride side there should be links to "Submit New Report".

jeric_synergy
11-26-2014, 10:30 AM
If your account page on the ride side there should be links to "Submit New Report".

Ooooo, that's new-ish, I think. I just use FobBugz, which has a 'feature request' category.

wesleycorgi
11-26-2014, 10:38 AM
I didn't want to do it. Really, this time I didn't want to do it. Believe me! I wanted to wait and see. How does it work? Do the pros complain about bugs? Do they like the new stuff? You know, I didn't needed to do it. No one is pressing me with deadlines or wants fancy bullet animations from me. I have a job, that has nothing do to with Lightwave. What I have works for me (ok Modeler somehow and this mainly because of LWCad).

That said, I should not have loaded a hdr and switch on importance sampling. Damn! This Paypal button took away my self-control so easily again. What a weak personality I have. Bad for me (money is gone), good for LW3DG (money arrived).

:-)
Yes, I was almost tempted after seeing importance sampling.

ernpchan
11-26-2014, 10:56 AM
Ooooo, that's new-ish, I think. I just use FobBugz, which has a 'feature request' category.

Yes, much easier setup to use now.

Greenlaw
11-26-2014, 11:10 AM
I use LWCAD probably every day and most not for ArchViz, LWCad has saved me so much time in the past.

Mostly same here. I don't use LWCAD all the time but when I need it, I'm so glad to have it. Here's an example of where it was incredibly useful to me:

Skip to about 0:55 to where the goldfish and the 'palace of cards' begins. I was expected to spend a few days designing and building that model but LWCAD's fully interactive cloning tools helped me fast track the task in about a day. (There are other segments not shown in the demo reel with winding corridors and such--it was a fairly large and complicated set for as little time I spent creating it.)

G.

DuneBoy
11-26-2014, 11:17 AM
Yes, much easier setup to use now. You should also be able to search other tickets based on keyword.

That's not a public feature.

ernpchan
11-26-2014, 11:20 AM
That's not a public feature.

D'oh.

erikals
11-26-2014, 11:22 AM
dangit, did sound nice! :/

ernesttx
11-26-2014, 11:25 AM
Thanks Ernest hehe

djlithium
11-26-2014, 11:52 AM
kat - how about - just Victor - give the modeler to him... that is it :)

That would be really awesome for future features for sure.

Greenlaw
11-26-2014, 12:30 PM
Here's a really cool new feature for VPR in 2015: it can now output an alpha channel along with the RGB frames. To enable it, you need to disable Draft Mode. I can think of many situations where this will come in handy.

G.

hrgiger
11-26-2014, 12:40 PM
If LW3DG could hire Viktor for their modeling engineer, then Modeler would be the best polygon modeler out there hands down. Its just not likey unfortunately.

Paul Brunson
11-26-2014, 12:47 PM
Long time lightwave user since Toaster days and "charter" member. I love using Lightwave and I'm excited about LW2015, the importance sampling, and match perspective tools are the high value items for me. I can't afford an upgrade right now but I'll be trying to pull the money together.

I do have to echo what some others have said though. I am really disappointed with the lack of improvements in modeler. The big killer for me is the CC subdivision edge weighting that breaks whenever you use other tools on the model. Its been broken for how many years now?

I've been working with models that are organic but require hard edges. Having to put all those extra edge loops in to get the sharp edges creates a nightmare if you have to tweak the model a lot to refine the shape. I have to admit that on my todo list for this coming year is learning how to use modo and its "pixar subdivisions" with point and edge weighting. I'll still use Lightwave whenever possible because its what I know and gets the job done. But the stagnation on modeler development is forcing me to look elsewhere at this point.

None the less congrats to the LW3D group for a solid release, my fingers are crossed that modeler will receive the attention it needs sooner than later.

robertoortiz
11-26-2014, 01:39 PM
For anyone interested; reactions at CGTalk: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1236255&utm_medium=plugblock&utm_source=cgtalk
I am amazed how some people cannot see all the hard work that went into this update. It almost reads like someone complaining about their ex wife 6 years after the divorce.

ernpchan
11-26-2014, 01:42 PM
I am amazed how some people cannot see all the hard work that went into this update. It almost reads like someone complaining about their ex wife 6 years after the divorce.

That's cuz deep down they still miss and love her, haha.

spherical
11-26-2014, 01:55 PM
any guarantee that we would see a few more Modeler updates in 2015 ?

"Guarantee"? Funny. :) What is it about: "We are not going to talk about future developments before they are released." that people don't get? :D

spherical
11-26-2014, 02:00 PM
Where do we send feature requests to? and see what is already there, so we don't duplicate requests. Thanks.

There is a Feature Requests (http://forums.newtek.com/forumdisplay.php?27-LW-Feature-Requests) forum and there is FogBugz (https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp). Duplication isn't a bad thing. It is one more vote for what people want.

spherical
11-26-2014, 02:02 PM
I didn't want to do it. Really, this time I didn't want to do it. Believe me! I wanted to wait and see. How does it work? Do the pros complain about bugs? Do they like the new stuff? You know, I didn't needed to do it. No one is pressing me with deadlines or wants fancy bullet animations from me. I have a job, that has nothing do to with Lightwave. What I have works for me (ok Modeler somehow and this mainly because of LWCad).

That said, I should not have loaded a hdr and switch on importance sampling. Damn! This Paypal button took away my self-control so easily again. What a weak personality I have. Bad for me (money is gone), good for LW3DG (money arrived).

:-)

Made my day! :)

Greenlaw
11-26-2014, 02:07 PM
That's cuz deep down they still miss and love her, haha.

:)