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Willax
11-22-2014, 01:39 PM
I'm having a rendering issue with a scene I'm working on.
I have a house on a landscape and the house foundation extends into the landscape. I'm using a spotlight for lighting
for the soft shadows. When I render the frame/scene, it looks like the foundation of the house is above the landscape
but it isn't. I've added several cameras to check the perspective and it still renders the same. What am I missing here?
I tried to upload some images of the problem but the forum wouldn't let me upload them. When I tried to upload from computer
and select file, it just stays on the requester

125631125632125633
I'll keep trying.

spherical
11-22-2014, 02:19 PM
First thing that pops to mind is Edge Transparency or other falloff on the ground object.

Wade
11-22-2014, 03:28 PM
Check to see if the ground is plainer or triangles... A none plainer poly could cause that. Turn on double sided for the ground texture as it might be flipped or just make sure its not flipped.

Willax
11-22-2014, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. No luck. I have no shaders on the ground terrain. It is UV mapped. The terrain is subpatched also. I tried double sided but that did not change anything. I'll keep playing with settings. If you can think of anything else let me know, or if you need to get specific settings let me know.

125635

This box actually has 4 color sections. There is a red (half shown) and a blue section on the bottom. Somehow the bottom is being cut off and the remaining object appears to be floating, which it isn't. This certainly points to the Landscape object to be at fault. I also removed the UV map and made it an image map, but got the same results.

spherical
11-22-2014, 08:22 PM
What happens of you turn off the terrain object and create an infinite plane or any plane?
Try an un-subpatched version of the terrain object; just a simple box big enough to cover the area in view.

Wade
11-22-2014, 10:55 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. No luck. I have no shaders on the ground terrain. It is UV mapped. The terrain is subpatched also. I tried double sided but that did not change anything. I'll keep playing with settings. If you can think of anything else let me know, or if you need to get specific settings let me know.

125635

This box actually has 4 color sections. There is a red (half shown) and a blue section on the bottom. Somehow the bottom is being cut off and the remaining object appears to be floating, which it isn't. This certainly points to the Landscape object to be at fault. I also removed the UV map and made it an image map, but got the same results.
Try freezing your ground mess or upping the subdivision level. We

Willax
11-22-2014, 11:53 PM
I think I may have discovered the problem. My main light was a spotlight, which I liked because of the soft shadows.
I turned that light off and replaced it with a distant light at the same distance, and it seems to render ok.
I tried to insert pictures, but the forum isn't very friendly atm for adding them.

spherical
11-23-2014, 12:04 AM
That doesn't make any sense. A light shouldn't make any difference on the transparency/clipping of objects. Try a DP Light (http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/lights/Additional_Lights.html) and see if it does anything different.

djwaterman
11-23-2014, 01:05 AM
Yes, the shadow made it look that way, it was an optical illusion. You used a spotlight with the shadow map option and ramped up the fuzziness didn't you. Download the DP lights and use those, the dp spotlight and dp infinite (sun) will have soft shadow control and you can use ray trace shadows. Or if for rendering reason you want to keep using the shadow map spotlight, you have to play with the setting more for increased accuracy of soft shadows.


Shadow map with spot light. Box appears to float but is actually intersecting the floor.

125637

Willax
11-23-2014, 12:05 PM
Here's the photos to confirm the light issues. I downloaded the DP lights and will play with them.

Quick question on the plugin. Where do I put the plugin? There are a lot of folders in the plugin directory and the documentation doesn't say where to put it.

Thanks everyone for the help.

http://forums.newtek.com/image
http://forums.newtek.com/images/styles/ClanTemplate/attach/jpg.gifs/styles/ClanTemplate/attach/jpg.gif

First photo is with ground object, same issue
Second photo is with standard distant light and harsh shadows

EDIT: figured out the plugins can just have the folder added to plugin folder and not in any other folder

Marander
11-23-2014, 01:45 PM
Within the main LW plugins folder, I created a 3rdparty folder with subfolders for dpond, dplights, worley, IFW2 etc. where I unpack or copy the individual plugins to. Then add it by Edit Plugins and scanning the 3rdparty folder. Some users mention not to automatically scan at LW startup to have more control.

Edit: for the names of the 3rdparty subfolders you can also include the version number in the name. That way you easily see if you need to replace them later. For dpond I just use the name created from extracting the zip file.

JoePoe
11-23-2014, 01:58 PM
So was DJ correct about the soft shadow maps??
If not, and this is happening with ray tracing, I have another possible cause.

It could be that the light in question is placed just in the "right" spot to give an optical illusion effect.
Seems to me that the shadow in question is the shadow of the roof overhang. And the small side sliver of porch is still in light.
The light is shining almost straight down as evidenced by the creature's shadow.
The couple of inches of porch height could only be casting that shadow in front if the light were much lower to the horizon... and behind the house.
(and if that were the case the shadow from the house itself would be much more pronounced)

So in short.... move your light. :)

Willax
11-23-2014, 05:34 PM
Joe, actually the porch extends into the ground quite far. As shown in the image I posted with the box in front of the house, there is a definite gap under the box, which is nowhere near the roof of the house. The distant light in the same place shows no gap. I did experiment with light placement without success also.
On another note, I did some test renders with the DP lights, and some of them give the same result, showing a gap, while a few do not.
Fortunately, the frames showing that angle are very few and I can get away with leaving it as is if I want the soft shadows.

JoePoe
11-23-2014, 06:29 PM
Ahhh. Didn't see that box!!
Glad it's sort of under control.
Any interest in posting a scene with that box and behavior for crowd examination?

spherical
11-24-2014, 04:32 AM
Really.... This is just becoming stabbing in the dark.

Willax
11-24-2014, 07:57 AM
I'll see about thinning out the scene a bit. It's currently almost 500 megs worth of files, mostly image

JoePoe
11-24-2014, 08:22 AM
Okay, cool.

You could just not include the images folder when u zip it up.

Willax
11-24-2014, 08:38 AM
Ok, here we go. I was able to strip out most of the image files (they were huge) and reduced polys on the terrain, deleted a few objects, and what I have left is still showing the render issue. Play around with it and see if you can see something I have missed.
Here's the scene:

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125648&stc=1&d=1416843475

JoePoe
11-24-2014, 09:03 AM
From what I can gather.... both DJ and I were correct.

That shadow is being cast by the roof. The corner is an optical illusion because it's still being hit by some light on the edge of the porch.

You have your spot at 500M, so the innocuous looking shadow map fuzziness value of only 1 is still having a big effect after all that distance.
... and the fuzziness at that distance is completely washing out any shadow you may (or may not see at that angle) being cast from the "inch" or so of the porch itself onto the ground.

Here it is with an area light :)
(notice the teeny tiny amount of shadow cast by the porch itself at that angle.)

125651

Edit: ... and a different light position and angle. A little front of the porch to get away from the illusion.

125653

djwaterman
11-24-2014, 11:08 AM
If your going to use the spot light with a shadow map, you will have to increase the shadow map size a lot, I set it to 21699, and the fuzziness set to 4, you'll find as you increase fuzziness, you also have to increase the shadow map size for accuracy. With totally hard shadows (I moved the camera right close to the offending section) you can see there is no problem, it's just the porch shadow overhang in combination with a very shallow amount of foundation shadow that is contributing to this almost optical illusion.

125652

Add to that an inaccurate shadow map and you complete the illusion.


You are obviously using shadow maps for the render speed, so you'll have to play with the settings, otherwise use the dp infinite, I tried it on your scene and it works but of course a little render hit as well. I also got the shadow map spot light to work but that's up to your taste to play with.

Willax
11-24-2014, 03:23 PM
Thanks for solving the mystery of the floating cabin :)

Hmmm......................maybe I can work that into my story somehow, LOL

Thanks again

dwburman
11-24-2014, 11:26 PM
Another possibility for lighting is to use the dome light, but set it's Angle to a low number like 5 degrees. The default is 90 degrees. The larger the angle, the softer the shadows. An Angle of 0 should pretty much look the same as a distant light.