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vonpietro
11-03-2014, 04:48 PM
Hi, yet another lw 12 post.
was just wondering about newtek and how it's release for 12 is going to happen and when.
Is newtek going to tell us before it releases 12 whats going to be in 12? or are they just going to surprise us?
Is that really a good business model for them? Do they typically release around siggraph?

why again is newtek so quiet about whats going to be released or when.

is newtek reading these posts about whats wanted and whats not?


it seems to me that alot of third party developers are filling the gaps, but by the time your done buying all these plugins
lw costs as much as maya.

And what happens to the third party plugin developer if say newtek were to include say a smoke package in 12,
what would happen to turbulence fd support?
its like if a third party developed it, is it not going to show up in native lightwave, just so they newtek doesn't dry up demand for said plugin.
does that mean we can look at all the third party plug ins out there and rule out that these things are going to be native in lw 12?
look what happened to sasquach and fprime. Now we have fiber fx and vpr - and i'm not sure if worley is even making plugins for lightwave anymore. do those plugins even work with 11.6 anymore? I couldn't find sas light, when did that disappear?

instancing and vpr are really such great additions to lightwave that i'm hoping for more new awesome stuff, but what?

I'd really like to know whats coming up for lw 12.
=)

pinkmouse
11-03-2014, 04:56 PM
Here we go again...

Who knows, who knows, no, yes, no, no, paranoia, possibly, possibly, somewhat, yes, buggered, probably stopped, no, no, when people stopped buying it, who knows, wouldn't we all.

;)

tyrot
11-03-2014, 06:11 PM
HERE WE GO! STEELERS ! :) sorry still i m counting BIG BEN's touchdowns against ravens:) ok back to NT

this silence is a bit bugging dont you think? Especially after IKEDA's departure - i really do not know what to expect ....

do we have some sort of pre-8th release syndrome ?

Amurrell
11-03-2014, 06:31 PM
You have to start being comfortable with the fact that LW3DG won't tell us anything, ever. Makes me uncomfortable as an "investor", and also has encouraged me to start looking elsewhere and weighing options, but I also know they don't care about little people like me, so...

Dexter2999
11-03-2014, 07:10 PM
it seems to me that alot of third party developers are filling the gaps, but by the time your done buying all these plugins
lw costs as much as maya.

Sure it may cost as much as Maya if you buy every plug in. But, making everything native would inevitably drive up development costs and retail costs. And there are plenty of people, like me who don't NEED every plug in. Do people doing Arch-Vis really NEED Turbulence FD? Do character modelers need LW/CAD?Does everyone NEED RealFlow? I did logo work for Convention/Sales for close to seven years and never needed any plug ins.

I'm not saying I didn't WANT these things, but I didn't NEED them and never purchased them.




And what happens to the third party plugin developer if say newtek were to include say a smoke package in 12,
what would happen to turbulence fd support?
its like if a third party developed it, is it not going to show up in native lightwave, just so they newtek doesn't dry up demand for said plugin.
does that mean we can look at all the third party plug ins out there and rule out that these things are going to be native in lw 12?
look what happened to sasquach and fprime. Now we have fiber fx and vpr - and i'm not sure if worley is even making plugins for lightwave anymore. do those plugins even work with 11.6 anymore? I couldn't find sas light, when did that disappear?


And that furthers the point of the negative side of making everything native. If every time there is a plug in that fills a major need, and LW3DG undercuts them what message does that send to potential 3rd part developers?

It isn't as if it isn't tough enough with LW's struggling market share. They don't need to scare off potential developers.

But I freely acknowledge this isn't the way the majority of posters on this board appear to feel. The most common arguments are "what if they change and break my plug in?" and "what if the plug in developer goes under?" And these things are real hazards of the industry that cannot be ignored.

motivalex
11-03-2014, 07:45 PM
In the past they have shown the latest version at Siggraph, followed by a release sometime afterwards (maybe weeks or months). So if they follow that pattern, then there may not be any news on LW12 until August 2015.

jasonwestmas
11-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Nobody here knows.

erikals
11-03-2014, 10:23 PM
a one-click Cyclone generator...

click several times to randomize the Cyclone

Riff_Masteroff
11-03-2014, 10:25 PM
Nuts

erikals
11-03-2014, 10:42 PM
Nuts & Bolts i presume ?

Oedo 808
11-03-2014, 11:27 PM
Testicles, I presume.

VermilionCat
11-03-2014, 11:41 PM
He must be a poker player, I presume.

tayotain2
11-03-2014, 11:45 PM
Testicle generator would be cool. You dont se much characters with testicles from any package. :D

erikals
11-04-2014, 12:06 AM
...before this thread goes off track.... ... wait... ... .. one sec ...

prometheus
11-04-2014, 12:17 AM
Testicle generator would be cool. You dont se much characters with testicles from any package. :D

he..yeah I remember complaining about the lack of that in Daz studio, I wanted that for a weird dream sequence I had, and it was pretty moderate...just a nightmare scene of me being nude in the desert..picking the last remaining flower on earth or something, just to cover my nudity, and when I picked the flower the ground cracked beneath me and I fell in to darkness for a long time until I woke up in sweat.
Daz Ken and barbie style figures would make it pointless to render such scene.
must have been some unconsious message about how ridiculous my own vanity is, when I was all alone in the desert..and there was absolutly no need to destroy the last flower because of such silly..little thing:)

Michael

erikals
11-04-2014, 12:27 AM
Michael > Destroyer of Worlds

prometheus
11-04-2014, 01:11 AM
Michael > Destroyer of Earths

Yep..better keep my unconscious mind caged, or else some kind of x-men phoenix effect might be unleashed, I got lightwave in my hands... and bullet, and also part move at my disposal:D sometimes to build, we need to destroy:devil:

erikals
11-04-2014, 01:37 AM
hey, you got World Machine http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

get started!

jwiede
11-04-2014, 02:20 AM
hey, you got World Machine http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

get started!

Not sure how that'll solve the "testicle problem". ;)

Also, of course there are sources for realistic male genitalia for Daz / Poser figures, http://www.maleposerotica.com is one example (definitely NSFW, comically so in some cases). If there's one thing you can always count on with the Internet, after all, it's the commercial availability of virtually any sexual-related content imaginable.

hrgiger
11-04-2014, 02:51 AM
Welcome to the world of complete radio silence.

Hail
11-04-2014, 04:42 AM
Welcome to the world of complete radio silence.

And that has got me looking into C4D. :(

Andy Webb
11-04-2014, 05:22 AM
You start to wonder if there will be another point release for 11 or is it straight into 12?

fazi69
11-04-2014, 05:48 AM
I would like to know what is general direction in LW3d development. That info will be helpful. For example soon I will have to spend lot of money on new hrdware and it would be nice to know if GPU power will be used in any way in LW 12/13 or it is better to spend money on CPU power. Little things.

tyrot
11-04-2014, 05:50 AM
one issue..what is the reason of this complete silence from LW3DG...one of your leading coder left... and probably there is no new hiring... so what's going on?

MarcusM
11-04-2014, 05:59 AM
Maybe they wait for Christmas... or "happy holidays" ;]

jburford
11-04-2014, 06:10 AM
And that has got me looking into C4D. :(


Why would that have you looking into C4D?? (not that C4D is bad, it's Great)


But, it is the same procedure as always for Newtek and almost all other 3D Apps.... (except Blender and 3D Coat)

So, not certain why we all have to go through this time after time, year after year, decade after decade.

Cheers

jburford
11-04-2014, 06:13 AM
I would like to know what is general direction in LW3d development. That info will be helpful. For example soon I will have to spend lot of money on new hrdware and it would be nice to know if GPU power will be used in any way in LW 12/13 or it is better to spend money on CPU power. Little things.


The cat will not be out of the bag intil it is ready.... not to even mention LW 13. And can probably almost 95% be certain it will not be GPU boosted for LW 12. As usual, get all the power you can afford today with thoughts for the future, and yes, no reason not to have a decent GPU for other Apps or the future for LW whenever it might come.

Nicolas Jordan
11-04-2014, 10:55 AM
I suspect we will know what's in LW 12 soon and it's not far around the corner since a company like this from a business perspective needs to put out a new paid upgrade release with reasonable frequently in order to keep good cash flow.

cresshead
11-04-2014, 10:58 AM
finally we'll get the "Eagle in a Barrel" plugin feature..PLEASE!

MAUROCOR
11-04-2014, 11:08 AM
Nobody here knows.

I know! ...but I canīt tell you!

tyrot
11-04-2014, 11:27 AM
lets make some noise ..till getting a word from LW3DG

SteveH
11-04-2014, 11:50 AM
lets make some noise ..till getting a word from LW3DG

OH yeah - that's proven to work so well in the past....
pffffft...... ;-(

hrgiger
11-04-2014, 11:59 AM
I dont know if its the complete reason, but part of the reason we dont hear anything from LW3DG hardly anymore is because Rob said that in the past, announcements were made and then things had to change during development, then people got angry. For instance, it was said that for the version 9 release that point editing/animation would be possible and then that didnt work out so well at that stage of development and people felt like promises were broken. And to some degree, it makes sense to not make announcements prematurely.

Unfortunately, theyve gone the complete opposite direction and now dont communicate at all with the userbase. And the net result of that is rampant speculation (both goood and bad) and generates zero interest in LightWave and encourages people to look elsewhere for other products that are actually or seemingly making progress. Which is unfortunate because its not the pace of LightWave development that has to improve, its the way they encourage people to be excited about their product along the way. What they're doing now in their current approach is only adding weight to the talk you see around the web about LightWave's future. So when you see someone say LightWave is dying a slow death (which i just saw the other day on The Foundry's forum), it might not even be true at all but it's not like you can point to anything that says otherwise at this point.

bazsa73
11-04-2014, 12:22 PM
in my new workplace where there's only one guy who knows a guy who uses LW and the rest thinks LW is an abandoned app and I have to
correct them that it's XSI and they say, yeah, sure bro, so heck, it's pretty discouraging especially seeing them prospering pretty well with other apps.
So I am that interesting circus animal who uses a strange and unknown app, feels really like I am an alien in green suit.
And on this side there's this BIG silence emanating from the Tower of Silent Treatment all shrouded in big fog and mists.

hazmat777
11-04-2014, 12:50 PM
Well, Avatar 2 is still in pre-production so maybe Rob is working that???

Surrealist.
11-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Hi, yet another lw 12 post.
was just wondering about newtek and how it's release for 12 is going to happen and when.
Is newtek going to tell us before it releases 12 whats going to be in 12? or are they just going to surprise us?

I'd really like to know whats coming up for lw 12.
=)

You will. And with plenty of time to decide what to do. Usually they have a re-anouncement once features they will include are locked down. Then there is usually a month or more - from what I can recall anyway - before it is actually released.

Beyond that, there is no point in even asking. When they are ready they will announce and then you'll know.

HarverdGrad
11-04-2014, 02:36 PM
:lwicon: Lightwave 2015, and it will be subscription based

vonpietro
11-04-2014, 02:41 PM
You guys are really funny!! =)
well lets hope lw 12 is as awesome AS 11.6.3 is

"finally we'll get the "Eagle in a Barrel" plugin feature..PLEASE! "
would you settle for a teapot generator
is that still included with lw? hmm.. quick look i didn't see it anywhere.
anyone recall what version it was shipped with, i think it worked in 5.6 =)

jasonwestmas
11-04-2014, 03:29 PM
"well lets hope lw 12 is as awesome AS 11.6.3 is"

That'll be easy. ;)

Tranimatronic
11-04-2014, 06:36 PM
"finally we'll get the "Eagle in a Barrel" plugin feature..PLEASE! "

How many years has this feature been in development and STILL no news from Newtek ;)

eagleeyed
11-04-2014, 07:35 PM
:lwicon: Lightwave 2015, and it will be subscription based

I really, really hope not.

Adobe is the only company I find subscription software to be worth the money. $49 AU monthly ($600 a year) plus a couple of months free each year for the last couple of years has always been great value to me, you get a awful lot for that.

On the other hand, even programs that are designed to do just part of the 3D pipeline are in my opinion asking insane prices.

iPisoft has just changed to subscription, and gone from $1495 for a permanent license, to $1195 a year. I wont be upgrading any further now this has come out the bag.
Faceshift, a program that only does Kinect Facial capture, $800 a year for the base version, $1500 for pro.

Marvellous designer is a lot more reasonable, asking $360 for a annual license. I paid for the perpetual ($550) just so I actually was able to use it whenever I wanted for more than 12 months.

Autodesk 3ds Max Entertainment Creation Suite Standard: $2750 a year.

Unless the price is really competitive if they go down the subscription route, I will be sticking to 11.
I hate the thought of paying that much money for something I wont be able to use after 12 months.

On the other hand, if they did what The Foundry do where you just pay a yearly maintenance fee that would be a ton better. At least if you stop paying you can still use the software version you are paid up til.

Even better, stick with what they do now. I love what they do now.

Although the silence is deafening. I really don't want LW to cease development, however I personally am getting that impression, however true or not.

erikals
11-05-2014, 12:28 AM
Adobe is the only company I find subscription software to be worth the money. $49 AU monthly ($600 a year) plus a couple of months free each year for the last couple of years has always been great value to me, you get a awful lot for that.
for now, agree, until they increase the price.


iPisoft has just changed to subscription, and gone from $1495 for a permanent license, to $1195 a year.
thanks, that leaves out iPi Soft for me. luckily i got myself Nevron Motion, which seems better anyway.


Marvellous designer is a lot more reasonable, asking $360 for a annual license.
consider Syflex for LightWave, only $200


Autodesk 3ds Max Entertainment Creation Suite Standard: $2750 a year.
imo, not worth, by far. i do like a lot the fact that i can rent Max or Maya monthly for $300 though,
should a crisis where i absolutely must use those apps emerge.


if they did what The Foundry do where you just pay a yearly maintenance fee that would be a ton better.
isn't that how Autodesk started?... no thanks :l

talking apps, just want to add that Houdini Indie is $200 a year
www.sidefx.com/indie installation > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag29xX6FFBk


LW subscription? = no way!



Although the silence is deafening. I really don't want LW to cease development, however I personally am getting that impression, however true or not.
i don't think so, it just seems that the silent route is a new path they have chosen.
it's probably less quiet if you are in the LightWave beta program.

anyway, i've got other apps to explore, so no rush for me http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Wickedpup
11-05-2014, 12:57 AM
I have a hard time understanding why they work hard through marketing etc. to gain any momentum, just to throw it out the window by going completely dark and allow for speculation and a presumed death. Seems like a waste of marketing resources to me. But it isn't the first time they shoot themselves in the foot and from that POV I would not call it a "NEW" path..... :stumped:

erikals
11-05-2014, 01:17 AM
well, not saying i support it.

tyrot
11-05-2014, 02:13 AM
in software business public perception of silence usually pretty negative..
if there are some progress ..let people know.. ok we lost ikeda but doing this or that...we focus on that.. etc etc..

i dont know.. we are not so hard to handle anyway as a community we are pretty much faithful users..

Andy Webb
11-05-2014, 02:41 AM
I think a little communication and often from LW3DG would keep the troops happy.

But no communication means that if anyone from LW3DG did come on here now, they would be bombarded with unrealistic questions and demands.

So no communication can be self defeating in that respect, a little drip feed of communication can only be helpful I would have thought,
even if it's just 'Hi we're here and things are moving along... etc., etc.' :)

sukardi
11-05-2014, 02:42 AM
I don't remember the team being this opaque before. The only reason I can think of is that they are working on an important deal that may or may not happen, so it is best not to say anything until a decision has been reached ...

jburford
11-05-2014, 02:43 AM
I have a hard time understanding why they work hard through marketing etc. to gain any momentum, just to throw it out the window by going completely dark and allow for speculation and a presumed death. Seems like a waste of marketing resources to me. But it isn't the first time they shoot themselves in the foot and from that POV I would not call it a "NEW" path..... :stumped:


People, people, Animpeople! Again, for the 20,000 time in the past 25 years. . . . This is How it is! Autodesk is No Different, Maxon is No Different, Foundry is no Different, Adobe is No Different, and so on, and so on and so on.

Again, I only know of 2 companies where this is not so..... Again, Blender and 3D Coat. Do you all magically know something that the rest of us don't know about?

Newtek is not PMG! Rob is not Fori!


In regards to Marketing, or the good ole fuzzy feeling, if you look at the continual updates on the Web Site in regards to progress or the passing on of information.

What do we see there?

1. New Lightwave Videos
2. New Lightwave 3D Magazine
3. New Official Lightwave 3D Vimeo Channel
4. Lightwave 2014 Show Real Showcase
5. New Studio Profiles
6. Newsletter

and so on and so on.

But yet, Newtek is 'in the Dark'? Presumed Dead?? Doom and Gloom, the sky is falling??

Appopo, when is the last time you called your mother(s) to check on? Are you presuming her to be dead by not doing so?

Or is she presuming automatically that you are dead because you have not called her in ages?


Get back to work or play and stop looking for stuff where there simply is nothing there.

Wickedpup
11-05-2014, 03:36 AM
Rob might not be Fori...however NT seems just as MIA as him......

You are of course entitled to your POV, but yes, presumed dead is a general perception I see more often than I like on other forums. We users could of course try to correct that perception, but how? Itīs not like I can say "they are working hard on LW 11.7" (or 12 for that matter)
As for other companies, sorry, I beg to differ, there is considerable more userbase/customer/community interaction out there......The Foundry as a good example....Brad P would have been allover a "presumed death" and putting out that bonfire at itīs birth......and if you donīt see something that obvious it is no point in continuing down that road.

tyrot
11-05-2014, 03:48 AM
when Chuck was dealing with these issues things were more transparent. Miss him on LW3DG side... And he was really handling - even nutty threads - with a super cool attitude.

It won't hurt anybody to be more open. THe ones who got pissed off with NT - and LW - and Core already left the town. We are humble LWvers here. Things can get a bit more open.

Lets say if there is a problem in coding side.. may be including some third party plugins may be next update.. At least we can share some ideas.

Or is there something big - that we do not know yet. What? Blackmagic wants to buy LW? :))

erikals
11-05-2014, 04:03 AM
i don't really care, just release LightWave 12 already... !

with a fluid Layout <> Modeler workflow of course...


it's soon Christmas for crying out loud, i need my Christmas present...! :[

Otterman
11-05-2014, 04:23 AM
Crikey I only just got round to installing 11.6.3 for christs sake. To be honest I can't afford too many updates in the mist of fast turnaround and high production workloads. Rolling out a new installation across a renderfarm, checking that plug-ins play nice and then testing...I simply don't have time for. So if a new release is indeed coming I'm happy to wait until it is right!

That said, it would be nice to know that LW is still being developed and there will be implementing new features and toolsets that I can tap into when I'm ready. It's all about My investment in the future and having faith within Newtek to deliver the product I need now and for the future. When things go quiet and the forums get twitchy, it makes me nervous and I start thinking about alternatives to my CGI pipeline.

All things said and done, current Lightwave rocks....for now!

jburford
11-05-2014, 04:23 AM
Rob might not be Fori...however NT seems just as MIA as him......




Sorry, I beg to differ....... And, yes that is my opinion. However, other than you, I could not think of anyone (ok, prove me wrong people) who seriously in the industry would even compare or think of Newtek being like PMG or Fori

NT is not just as gone as Fori or dead, again go look at the Site, and you see a lot of new information being put out there from Newtek on Lightwave. Updated regurlarly and current! Lightwave's Forum is also alive and going strong and even has occasional responses from Newtek. Has Anyone ever seen that from Fori or PMG??? Don't think so.

Heck, even the "unofficial" Site of PMG at ProjectMessiah(dot)com went silent with the ones running it over 18 months in the past, and again gone MIA now for months.

With PMG/Fori it would go for 18 months with no word or response then all of a sudden an Email with Update Now in the next 48 Hours.... this is your last chance. Give us your subscription now or this is the end. To then what, go silent after and do nothing.

Again, this has never happened with Newtek.

Yes, this is more community out there with some other Apps, as I stated multiple times here. Blender and 3D Coat are, in my eyes, two of the best for giving one a "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

But if we go back, this was not the start of this Thread, it was more about, come on give us Information as to What is in Lightwave 12, and when it is coming...... And the Sky is falling because they are not doing so!

And Sorry, but I do not believe your Foundry puts out this information in advance either!

But seriously people, what kind of a response do you expect out of Newtek every time a similar Thread comes out, come on, tell is when is Version X, gonna be here? Come on Newtek tell us what will be in it? Come on Newtek, tell us if we get it for Free or not. . .

To come in and say the same thing all over again every couple of days to say the same thing???

Just my two (euro) cents.

erikals
11-05-2014, 04:27 AM
Crikey I only just got round to installing 11.6.3 for christs sake. To be honest I can't afford too many updates in the mist of fast turnaround and high production workloads. Rolling out a new installation across a renderfarm, checking that plug-ins play nice and then testing...I simply don't have time for. So if a new release is indeed coming I'm happy to wait until it is right!
in LightWave, no-one is stopping you, you can skip upgrades in LightWave, no problem.
you won't be punished like with Autodesk, Adobe, etc...

you can also wait until LightWave 12.2 is released... your choice, no problemos.

Otterman
11-05-2014, 04:39 AM
in LightWave, no-one is stopping you, you can skip upgrades in LightWave, no problem.
you won't be punished like with Autodesk, Adobe, etc...

you can also wait until LightWave 12.2 is released... your choice, no problemos.

Yeah I understand that and it is one reason why my version of Maya is out dated. That said if I feel Lightwave is not being developed fast enough or at all...eeik! I will be straight on the phone to Autodesk to try and broker an upgrade price. I've gotta remain competitive and on top of my game no matter what tool I use. I'm just hoping a new version of Lightwave or at least some communication from Newtek will give me some hope.

Thanks

prometheus
11-05-2014, 04:56 AM
Truespace is still free, and it got nurbs already:D and A lot of fancy icons...if lw fails that is.

Otterman
11-05-2014, 05:03 AM
fancy icons...

Winner!

Wickedpup
11-05-2014, 05:03 AM
However, other than you, I could not think of anyone (ok, prove me wrong people) who seriously in the industry would even compare or think of Newtek being like PMG or Fori

Maybe semantics but by saying "Newtek is not PMG! Rob is not Fori!" that is excactly what you did....a comparison.....I only followed your line of thought.


And Sorry, but I do not believe your Foundry puts out this information in advance either!
Never said they did. However, they seem to be able to interact with the community/userbase, donīt they? No need for them to go completely silent and dark, no need for them to reveal any development (assumptions could off course always be made from the game and motion graphics feedback requests they made a month or two ago). And you donīt see much doom and gloom over there. And no need for the user base to "give them a break" all the time, or look for cop-out excuses.....

jburford
11-05-2014, 06:36 AM
No need for them to go completely silent and dark,

And you donīt see much doom and gloom over there. And no need for the user base to "give them a break" all the time, or look for cop-out excuses.....


Silent and Dark?? Please go to https://www.lightwave3d.com/ and take a look for a few minutes at the front page and say that they are Silent and Dark.

Just not the case, again in my opinion.

And who really believes here that things are deep down Doom and Gloom?? Just the usual Christmas time coming up and again a bunch of users wanting to know if they are gonna have a new shiny Christmas Present or not from Newtek. Cop out excuses??? Again, Who other than Blender and 3D Coat, is putting their cards out of the table as to time tables and what will be put into which version well in advance? I know of none other, but please correct me.

And again, if Newtek or any other company does that, they know they are openning up a can of worms, if then later things do not work out in the timetable as they had thought would work out.

It's been a while since I have been over at the Luxology/Foundry Forum, but do remember vividly a few years back that there were a hell of a lot of unhappy campers at the time with pages and pages of input from the users and hardly any real comment on the matter from Luxology at that point in time.

And, if Modo is so good at communicating with it's User Base, did they let the User Base know about it's plans to be merged into the Foundry instead of after the fact and the decisions to affect the users still in the coming years that were done out in secret?

tyrot
11-05-2014, 06:39 AM
dude we are all supporting NT - LW3DG - we have no attitude issue from our side.. It is not so bad to ask what's going on... couple of progress.. this that.. is cool

erikals
11-05-2014, 07:02 AM
are people starting to take this thread seriously... ?

http://erikalstad.com/emoti/popcorn.gif

Wickedpup
11-05-2014, 07:11 AM
Silent and Dark?? Please go to https://www.lightwave3d.com/ and take a look for a few minutes at the front page and say that they are Silent and Dark.

Just not the case, again in my opinion.

And who really believes here that things are deep down Doom and Gloom?? Just the usual Christmas time coming up and again a bunch of users wanting to know if they are gonna have a new shiny Christmas Present or not from Newtek. Cop out excuses??? Again, Who other than Blender and 3D Coat, is putting their cards out of the table as to time tables and what will be put into which version well in advance? I know of none other, but please correct me.

And again, if Newtek or any other company does that, they know they are openning up a can of worms, if then later things do not work out in the timetable as they had thought would work out.

It's been a while since I have been over at the Luxology/Foundry Forum, but do remember vividly a few years back that there were a hell of a lot of unhappy campers at the time with pages and pages of input from the users and hardly any real comment on the matter from Luxology at that point in time.

And, if Modo is so good at communicating with it's User Base, did they let the User Base know about it's plans to be merged into the Foundry instead of after the fact and the decisions to affect the users still in the coming years that were done out in secret?

Not sure what your problem is. People are saying they run silent, they go dark, other places in this thread and in other threads yet you seem to have a problem with it whenever I use those terms. Doom and gloom? Your own words further up the page. Second, despite what you believe, communicating with the user base is not synonym with exposing any of your plans, like I pointed out in my previous answer....however Luxology (Now the Foundry) is often used as an example of how to communicate with a community/userbase....so for you to argue otherwise tells me you have been smoking some weird stuff! :screwy:

Ztreem
11-05-2014, 07:31 AM
Communicating is not the same as reveal secret information. I remember when Rob took over after Jay, he was very active here at forums and communicating visions and so forth... Now its dead silent. I really liked Rob v.1 that communicated and had a lot of presentations and visions... Hopefully he 's as energetic and full of visons now, but who knows.

Edit: And I don't think that post different sale offers on facebook is the same as communicating to the community.

hrgiger
11-05-2014, 07:35 AM
Silent and Dark?? Please go to https://www.lightwave3d.com/ and take a look for a few minutes at the front page and say that they are Silent and Dark.

Just not the case, again in my opinion.



Well if you consider a new tutorial news about LightWave development, then yes, I completely agree they are not silent and dark. Be serious.

The thing is, the programs like The Foundry and Autodesk which you say aren't communicating have annual release schedules so its not like they go long periods of time without news or updates. Max also in the last few years has had online seminar which users are free to sign up for (and non-users because I watched a few of them) where they have discussions with the userbase about the future of the product. The Foundry, formerly Luxology developers in this case, I see fairly regularly on the forums not to mention the modcasts so case in point, they are quite different from Newtek/LW3DG.

But it goes beyond that.

Since CORE was retired a few years back, they have gone from fairly regular participation in the forums to pretty much 0. Occasionally Steve Bowie or Matt might step into a thread and when that happens, its usually an attempt to put out a fire. They changed the direction with CORE, then they changed it again when they cancelled that. And now we are left with no information as to what direction at all they might be taking the software in (if they're taking it anywhere at all). Even mentioning that there will be a LW12 isn't even capable of being talked about. In my own particular instance, I thought they were interested in modernizing the LW platform by doing a rewrite. Then Rob changed things and said they were still doing it, just in a less extreme way then a rewrite. But then...nothing. LW11 which I consider to be a good release of the software as well as great value with the free updates, shows no particular direction in closing the gap between modeler and Layout or improving handling large datasets or any of the other number of things that said would be addressed. So how are we to guage if LW is headed in a good direction? I bought LW11 because it had a few features I felt LW was desperately lacking but I also knew that real change would take time and they couldn't address the deeper LW problems by the time LW 11 rolled out so soon after LW10. But by LW12, new features alone aren't going to cut it and I dont' see a serious future for LW without tackling some of the larger legacy issues. So I just want to know if I'm wasting my time here.

brent3d
11-05-2014, 08:12 AM
Well if you consider a new tutorial news about LightWave development, then yes, I completely agree they are not silent and dark. Be serious.

The thing is, the programs like The Foundry and Autodesk which you say aren't communicating have annual release schedules so its not like they go long periods of time without news or updates. Max also in the last few years has had online seminar which users are free to sign up for (and non-users because I watched a few of them) where they have discussions with the userbase about the future of the product. The Foundry, formerly Luxology developers in this case, I see fairly regularly on the forums not to mention the modcasts so case in point, they are quite different from Newtek/LW3DG.

But it goes beyond that.

Since CORE was retired a few years back, they have gone from fairly regular participation in the forums to pretty much 0. Occasionally Steve Bowie or Matt might step into a thread and when that happens, its usually an attempt to put out a fire. They changed the direction with CORE, then they changed it again when they cancelled that. And now we are left with no information as to what direction at all they might be taking the software in (if they're taking it anywhere at all). Even mentioning that there will be a LW12 isn't even capable of being talked about. In my own particular instance, I thought they were interested in modernizing the LW platform by doing a rewrite. Then Rob changed things and said they were still doing it, just in a less extreme way then a rewrite. But then...nothing. LW11 which I consider to be a good release of the software as well as great value with the free updates, shows no particular direction in closing the gap between modeler and Layout or improving handling large datasets or any of the other number of things that said would be addressed. So how are we to guage if LW is headed in a good direction? I bought LW11 because it had a few features I felt LW was desperately lacking but I also knew that real change would take time and they couldn't address the deeper LW problems by the time LW 11 rolled out so soon after LW10. But by LW12, new features alone aren't going to cut it and I dont' see a serious future for LW without tackling some of the larger legacy issues. So I just want to know if I'm wasting my time here.

Good points hr, but I think what can't be missed is that LW exists now in a market with much larger companies with larger marketing budgets. We see this with Autodesk and now the Foundry which can skew the perception towards the limited activities of a small company. It's like being in a sea of sharks now, one false move and you will be gobbled right up. My studio chooses LW because it still does the full range of 3D production at half the price of Max or Maya which as a licensed user of those apps as well I can tell you they go long periods without a substantial jump in tech, outside of stripping stuff from XSi. Marketing dollars keeps the hype going and the fans excited, but it doesn't represent the relevance or quality of the actual product. Are you wasting time with LW? Well I do know your saving money in the short and long run.

ianr
11-05-2014, 08:30 AM
Breaking News from the Deep Archives: We found him,Mr.Powers that is.

(Apologies to the Bayeux Tapestry)

brent3d
11-05-2014, 08:34 AM
Not sure what your problem is. People are saying they run silent, they go dark, other places in this thread and in other threads yet you seem to have a problem with it whenever I use those terms. Doom and gloom? Your own words further up the page. Second, despite what you believe, communicating with the user base is not synonym with exposing any of your plans, like I pointed out in my previous answer....however Luxology (Now the Foundry) is often used as an example of how to communicate with a community/userbase....so for you to argue otherwise tells me you have been smoking some weird stuff! :screwy:

Chill you guys.. as soon as people start comparing the Foundry to the activities of the LW3D Group that's when I know things have gone south. It's like comparing a $1395 software to a $3695 software with an annual subscription of $495, it just isn't logical. By the way the Luxology forums were quite similar to LW's prior to being purchased by the Foundry, just that they had and have the dynamic presence of Brad Peebler driving it similar to how he stoked the fires at Newtek. Now the Foundry has inherited that momentum and are capitalizing on it. But they do have a great communication pipeline going and should be emulated, that though will take time and finding the right angle. But we know the LW3D Group formed for this reason and caught LW before it slipped of the cliff, so we should believe that they have something in mind to stay competitive and wait to see what they're are up to.

- - - Updated - - -



are people starting to take this thread seriously... ?

http://erikalstad.com/emoti/popcorn.gif

Sadly I think so.

GandB
11-05-2014, 09:36 AM
It's been a while since I have been over at the Luxology/Foundry Forum, but do remember vividly a few years back that there were a hell of a lot of unhappy campers at the time with pages and pages of input from the users and hardly any real comment on the matter from Luxology at that point in time.

You might want to check back in there then. It's nothing like that now. LW3DG could indeed learn something about communicating with it's community, from Brad and Co.

As far as the subject matter; I've pretty much given up. I see most everyone else moving forward, in a visible way (watch out, Blender's starting to catch up); not so here. They'll have to do something pretty significant, especially in game dev, to lure me back. They have their work cut out for them. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. For many; that ship has already sailed. Less users, means less money for dev; before you spout the usual "go somewhere else if you aren't happy" line.

This is a tiring argument; and it's just not worth the time and energy anymore. Rob and Crew get a big "0", for communicating effectively with the LW userbase (there is absolutely NOTHING shown, concerning future plans/development; on the website, so stop using that as an example). That's it, and that's all. Anything else is just arguing semantics.

jwiede
11-05-2014, 12:52 PM
We see this with Autodesk and now the Foundry...

Are you suggesting Autodesk and The Foundry are roughly the same scale in company size? And that both are much, much larger than Newtek / LW3DG?

hazmat777
11-05-2014, 01:20 PM
Are you suggesting Autodesk and The Foundry are roughly the same scale in company size? And that both are much, much larger than Newtek / LW3DG?

I was just going to ask something similar. So has NewTek cut off funding for LW 3DG now that it's been split off from the rest of the cash cow (TriCaster) ???

Megalodon2.0
11-05-2014, 01:49 PM
:lwicon: Lightwave 2015, and it will be subscription based

Well at least if they went that route, they would have made my decision easy - BLENDER.

Megalodon2.0
11-05-2014, 01:54 PM
Not sure what your problem is. People are saying they run silent, they go dark, other places in this thread and in other threads yet you seem to have a problem with it whenever I use those terms. Doom and gloom? Your own words further up the page. Second, despite what you believe, communicating with the user base is not synonym with exposing any of your plans, like I pointed out in my previous answer....however Luxology (Now the Foundry) is often used as an example of how to communicate with a community/userbase....so for you to argue otherwise tells me you have been smoking some weird stuff! :screwy:

Quoted for agreement. Luxology, now The Foundry, apparently ALWAYS communicates with its userbase. They may not reveal plans, but they certainly do not go dark and stop communications ON THEIR FORUMS.

tyrot
11-05-2014, 03:35 PM
matt????? everything is OK there :)

eagleeyed
11-05-2014, 07:36 PM
I see a fair few users highlighting that lightwave3d.com has been updated with tutorials and other items recently, which is great.
However, newtek.com concerns me.

Not one mention of Lightwave, except for the very bottom of their product lists and the solutions lists.

All five banner sections on the home page all relate to Tricaster. Their own primary website is hiding Lightwave in my opinion.

I really love Lightwave, its the one program that gets me and my workflow. That and its a lot more affordable than most.
I want to be incorrect, but I am seeing it pushed off into the shadows.

Even in the forums, its been pushed down below even forum subsections for a new product that does not even have any posts in it.

Snosrap
11-05-2014, 10:12 PM
I see a fair few users highlighting that lightwave3d.com has been updated with tutorials and other items recently, which is great.
However, newtek.com concerns me.

Not one mention of Lightwave, except for the very bottom of their product lists and the solutions lists.

All five banner sections on the home page all relate to Tricaster. Their own primary website is hiding Lightwave in my opinion.

I really love Lightwave, its the one program that gets me and my workflow. That and its a lot more affordable than most.
I want to be incorrect, but I am seeing it pushed off into the shadows.

Even in the forums, its been pushed down below even forum subsections for a new product that does not even have any posts in it.

I think Newtek/LW3DG is slowly weaning us off the Newtek site, so I wouldn't worry too much about not much info about LW on the Newtek site. I think Chuck or Steve even stated that the eventual goal is for lightwave3d.com to have it's own forum section, which makes sense because the activity that is there as well as the Facebook site.

Kaptive
11-05-2014, 10:25 PM
I see a fair few users highlighting that lightwave3d.com has been updated with tutorials and other items recently, which is great.
However, newtek.com concerns me.

Not one mention of Lightwave, except for the very bottom of their product lists and the solutions lists.

All five banner sections on the home page all relate to Tricaster. Their own primary website is hiding Lightwave in my opinion.

I really love Lightwave, its the one program that gets me and my workflow. That and its a lot more affordable than most.
I want to be incorrect, but I am seeing it pushed off into the shadows.

Even in the forums, its been pushed down below even forum subsections for a new product that does not even have any posts in it.

I think it is more to do with focus. How many Lightwave users have any other Newtek products? Not that there isn't some cross over, but non directly. So to customers of Tri-Caster, seeing 3D software on Newteks site might be a little confusing/distracting (even though Lightwave can create the virtual sets for the green screening... but it isn't something that a Tri Caster user would create themselves).

It doesn't mean that those at the head of Newtek don't care for the 3d arm, just that it is a different thing. The only bit that they need to somehow fix is seperating the forums, so Lightwave has its own place. But it's possible that the numbers of frequent visitors to the forums makes it lower on the priorities. Personally, I think they should just start a new forum for Lightwave (and their other 3D products) while linking back to this forum for historical posts. I imagine it is the wealth of knowledge in the historicals that makes them reluctant to start fresh.

But when marketing is key, and market share is high on the priorities then a well chosen forum platform, with a great gallery and features could build a strong community again. Well, those are my thoughts anyway. But regarding newtek.com, I think it is all about focus. After all, Samsung make mobile phones and weapon systems, but you don't find them crossing over. Less extreme, but the exact same thing in my view.

Megalodon2.0
11-06-2014, 12:14 AM
I think Newtek/LW3DG is slowly weaning us off the Newtek site, so I wouldn't worry too much about not much info about LW on the Newtek site. I think Chuck or Steve even stated that the eventual goal is for lightwave3d.com to have it's own forum section, which makes sense because the activity that is there as well as the Facebook site.
It's not a matter of "weaning us off the Newtek site" - it's as simple as MOVING the LW sections over to Lightwave3d.com and telling everyone that the forum us now HERE at lightwave3d.com and not over at Newtek any more. There is no weaning involved. Move it and then tell us. Plain and simple.

tyrot
11-06-2014, 12:42 AM
It's not a matter of "weaning us off the Newtek site" - it's as simple as MOVING the LW sections over to Lightwave3d.com and telling everyone that the forum us now HERE at lightwave3d.com and not over at Newtek any more. There is no weaning involved. Move it and then tell us. Plain and simple.

Yeah ... +1 ... Do it and we are all fine :)

Paul_Boland
11-06-2014, 07:04 PM
I think LW3DG is run my politicians. They have a company name (LW3DG) but all they do is rake in a wage and do no work! Bahaha!! I don't think the company knows what the future of Lightwave is any more than we the users know. I'm NOT impressed with LW3DG at all.

jasonwestmas
11-06-2014, 07:40 PM
I'm merely bored with LW3DG.

Surrealist.
11-06-2014, 08:58 PM
Or with these threads?

lightscape
11-06-2014, 09:12 PM
We saw a folder of lightwave 12 in one of the videos from Lino. That's it. :D

jasonwestmas
11-07-2014, 07:12 AM
Or with these threads?

If the threads are about LW3DG then yes. :)

Kaptive
11-07-2014, 08:27 AM
I'm merely bored with LW3DG.

Oh my god! LW3DG have released full details of LW12! HERE!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)


:)

Of course, to continue the conversation, you'll need to get on THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAcnDevkTnc)

Sorry.

tyrot
11-07-2014, 08:43 AM
kaptive...you are a dead man. !

fazi69
11-07-2014, 08:49 AM
I have strange feeling that we will see something Arnold related and it will not be Terminator 5.

Kaptive
11-07-2014, 12:19 PM
kaptive...you are a dead man. !

i.. I... I... :)

OnlineRender
11-08-2014, 07:46 AM
I have strange feeling that we will see something Arnold related and it will not be Terminator 5.

agreed https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10341692_904622546228758_5995041393340199003_n.jpg ?oh=6a36db2443370ab88886b584969361c6&oe=54E14858&__gda__=1425016288_528baa548cf917b03437fc07a4b760b a