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prometheus
10-31-2014, 01:11 PM
well..there was a recent explosion on the unmanned supply rocket to ISS which was built partly? by a private company, and now I just found out that the virgin galactic space ship 2 have just crashed in mojave desert, and it seems that one pilot
died, and the other is severly injured.

Sad news for the exploration of space, but then again..it has happened before even with government controlled vehicles, hope they can track down what has gone wrong with these two accidents and make sure they can avoid
the same issues in the future.

Michael

erikals
10-31-2014, 01:56 PM
dangerous business :/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2816224/Virgin-Galactic-spaceship-flight-problem.html

spherical
10-31-2014, 08:40 PM
well..there was a recent explosion on the unmanned supply rocket to ISS which was built partly? by a private company,

With very few exceptions, all space vehicles and payloads are built by private companies. Even probes and rovers built at JPL are built by prime and sub contractors. Launch systems are the same. The locations at which launches take place are usually of one government agency or another—whether it be ESA, NASA, JAXA or others—mostly because the facilities are already built. Antares is a launch system built by Orbital Sciences; one of our long term clients. Both they and Scaled will determine the cause of their respective anomalies and continue onward. It's the nature of the endeavour when you are doing something that has never been done. The design is tested. The design evolves; mostly from tests that fail. It is a necessary procedure. You think as far into the situation as you can, make your best decisions and build upon them. Frequently enough, reality informs you that you missed a key concept or didn't give it enough weight. That is what the testing is for. It is the things that remain hidden that one worries about.

Riff_Masteroff
10-31-2014, 10:17 PM
I like to think there is a better way to propel these vehicles. Human's have put on a kind of horse blinder on themselves. All 'we' work with are equal but opposite propulsion schemes. Might as well put propellers on space ships. For sure, it takes a great effort of science & engineering on a scale, in my opinion, only governments ( currently) can provide.

We humans mumble to ourselves that there isn't enough energy, when all matter is energy ( E=MC*). And this, we humans say we have known for more than one hundred years. And we humans go on to mumble that there is not enough water, when the planet's surface is more than sixty percent water. And then we crow to ourselves as to how intelligent we are.

If we humans had a modicum of humility, we might say we know nothing. But instead, we say there is nothing to know. A recipe for disaster?

erikals
10-31-2014, 10:29 PM
wonder why the Virgin Galactic SS2 couldn't have been unmanned...

djlithium
10-31-2014, 10:31 PM
"With very few exceptions, all space vehicles and payloads are built by private companies. Even probes and rovers built at JPL are built by prime and sub contractors. Launch systems are the same. The locations at which launches take place are usually of one government agency or another—whether it be ESA, NASA, JAXA or others—mostly because the facilities are already built. Antares is a launch system built by Orbital Sciences; one of our long term clients. Both they and Scaled will determine the cause of their respective anomalies and continue onward. It's the nature of the endeavour when you are doing something that has never been done. The design is tested. The design evolves; mostly from tests that fail. It is a necessary procedure. You think as far into the situation as you can, make your best decisions and build upon them. Frequently enough, reality informs you that you missed a key concept or didn't give it enough weight. That is what the testing is for. It is the things that remain hidden that one worries about."

Quoting for agreement. There is no "government space vehicle" factory like some have suggested. People who are panicking about this and saying its the end of private spaceflight, etc etc. are being more than weird.

Megalodon2.0
10-31-2014, 10:40 PM
People who are panicking about this and saying its the end of private spaceflight, etc etc. are being more than weird.

Definitely.

shrox
10-31-2014, 11:05 PM
Risk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ErkeFA-QWk

erikals
10-31-2014, 11:12 PM
There is no "government space vehicle" factory like some have suggested.
People who are panicking about this and saying its the end of private spaceflight, etc etc. are being more than weird.
i think that's pushing it.

i'd rather say, need to read up on things than "are being more than weird"

erikals
10-31-2014, 11:37 PM
I like to think there is a better way to propel these vehicles. Human's have put on a kind of horse blinder on themselves. All 'we' work with are equal but opposite propulsion schemes. Might as well put propellers on space ships. For sure, it takes a great effort of science & engineering on a scale, in my opinion, only governments ( currently) can provide.

We humans mumble to ourselves that there isn't enough energy, when all matter is energy ( E=MC*). And this, we humans say we have known for more than one hundred years. And we humans go on to mumble that there is not enough water, when the planet's surface is more than sixty percent water. And then we crow to ourselves as to how intelligent we are.


If we humans had a modicum of humility, we might say we know nothing. But instead, we say there is nothing to know. A recipe for disaster?
no, because not all think like that... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

if you look at the last 10 years of human history there are small revolutions taking place.

take health as an example, new medicines, grown new skin, grown new hair, possible cure for Als.
yesterday i saw a video of a guy that got back his feelings in his legs, they "glued" his lost nerves.

Norway is working on a Thorium reactor to "save the world" from energy crisis.
new invention can remove 90% of carbon dioxide from the smoke from Coal power plants.
+hundreds of other inventions from other countries.

all-in-all i think we're on track, i'm more worried about the lack of knowledge in certain countries.
take Russia as an example, moving back to the cold war philosophy with Putin in the lead.

he also suggested to split Ukraine on the middle, 50% to Poland, 50% to Russia...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/20/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-sikorski-idUSKCN0I92A720141020

not to mention Iraq where +500.000 lost their lives. hardly worth it.

stupidity.

no, i'm not worried about alternative energy sources, human mentality however, still has a way to go.


intelligence vs social intelligence, it'll be an interesting race...

spherical
11-01-2014, 12:17 AM
I like to think there is a better way to propel these vehicles. Human's have put on a kind of horse blinder on themselves. All 'we' work with are equal but opposite propulsion schemes. Might as well put propellers on space ships. For sure, it takes a great effort of science & engineering on a scale, in my opinion, only governments ( currently) can provide.

There are a few concepts that, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the launch by controlled, directed explosion principle. Skyhooks or Space Tethers would perform this function very well. The dynamic is that a rotating, orbiting cable that essentially "walks" through the upper atmosphere as it goes around the planet; with its nearest approach to the surface being below the altitude of carrier aircraft similar to White Knight 2 that carry orbital-bound craft up to the rendezvous point with the Skyhook as it dips into the atmosphere. At this transfer point, the velocity of the hook is brought into the range of a flying aircraft; much as one's foot is "stopped" when it touches the ground while walking. As the Skyhook captures the payload, and continues its "walking" rotation, it slingshots the payload up and into orbit; releasing it at its local apogee. A very elegant solution. Expensive and currently out of reach; but advances in carbon technology just may arrive at a point where Hyperfilament is developed; making this possible. A number of forms already exist.

erikals
11-01-2014, 01:02 AM
another one, old video, not sure how far they have / will reach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAdj6vpYppA

Riff_Masteroff
11-01-2014, 09:52 AM
spherical & erikals: thankyou

from erikals posted url: " . . . . . aerospace transportation system that runs on solar energy generated in space and beamed to the vehicle in flight." I like. Sends my imagination to places no Riff has gone before.

On the other hand, I did read today's local newspaper article on the Virgin Galactic mishap. I don't like them. Lying so and so's. The good news is that Virgin Galactic lies are legal. Sometimes lying is illegal and called, in the US, perjury. What bothers me the most is that most ppl seem to admire them for it. Example: Virgin Galactic: "Space-ShipTwo has experienced an in-flight anomaly" The Washington Post goes on to say: "The spacecraft was found ripped apart, in large fragments, amid the sagebrush on the desert floor" An in-flight anomaly, huh. One itsy bitsy white lie too many. In my opinion, twisting the facts is not truth.

Another lie: Space-ShipTwo is not a space ship and was never designed to be a space ship. It is a tourist vehicle, designed to carry, maybe six LightWavers per flight to sub-orbital altitudes of 360,000 feet. Tickets will be priced at 250k usd each, so they say. Yes, that is quite high; but, in my opinion, not high enough to qualify as a space ship or reaching space.

The Wright flyer pioneered equal-but-opposite reaction propulsion systems about a hundred years ago. It was first deployed by two bicycle mechanics. In continuous development over the past century, Virgin Galactic combines a jet and rocket system with an artsy craft. Even if successful and deployed, I think it is not much. At best a footnote in a historical journal. Certainly not a step 'up' for all human kind. I would compare the craft to the great ferris wheel on the Thames in London. A wonder of wonders for about fifteen minutes.

erikals
11-01-2014, 10:40 AM
only people lie, but luckily we got politicians / chairmen / inventors keeping us safe

here's another fun one >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUnl6j89N4M

erikals
11-01-2014, 07:24 PM
reading up on Virgin, didn't know they have had so much trouble... :/

2007, Virgin Galactic explosion kills 3
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/07/27/us-airport-explosion-idUSN2625793820070727

2007, Virgin Galactic crash kills Steve Fossett
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/09/05/steve-fossett-idUKNOA52288220070905

2014, Virgin Galactic explosion kills 1
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-space-crash-virgin-idUSKBN0IK24220141031

shrox
11-01-2014, 08:01 PM
Hybrid rockets are relatively safe. Nitrous oxide is injected into a bored out tube of fuel, often just rubber or plastic. Basically just two moving parts as well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Hybrids_big.png