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prometheus
10-28-2014, 11:41 PM
Dax Pandhi (quad spinner) is at it with some plugins to World Machine, which seems to advance the looks of erosions a little with the adding of more chaotic erosions with the help of Geoglyph/neoflow.


Rendered results and showcase here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DMdIp6Ny0





And more detailed description and showcase here from Dax himself..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01qdLrofuMc


Dax Pandhi has also worked on the Helios plugin for vue ..which helps push the realism of clouds in vue.

erikals
10-29-2014, 08:20 AM
looks quite good, haven't used WM for some time, do you think these would work with WM version1 ?

p.s. are they free ?

prometheus
10-29-2014, 11:53 AM
looks quite good, haven't used WM for some time, do you think these would work with WM version1 ?

p.s. are they free ?

I believe they are commercial products..how they work with version1 of worldmachine?...I
have no idea since I dontīt have geoglyph, go to dax pandhiīs site (quadspinner) and contact him...or check the mail link below of contact info.
http://www.quadspinner.com/Home

currently he has 3 procucts...Helios,Geoglyph and WMtoolbox


http://www.quadspinner.com/WMToolbox
http://www.quadspinner.com/Helios/Index
http://www.quadspinner.com/GeoGlyph/Index

He has made a lot of tutorials and presets for vue and creates great images himself and has worked for some major movies and he seem to spend a lot of time learning how the real world is actually looking.
http://www.quadspinner.com/Home

Contact...
[email protected]

erikals
10-29-2014, 12:50 PM
FREE for personal and commercial work (no ads, no crapware)

sounds nice http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

need to get back to World Machine one of these days...


$70 to upgrade i see... >
http://www.world-machine.com/download.php?page=upgrade

prometheus
10-29-2014, 02:16 PM
The free for personal and commercial work is only for the WMtoolbox, and it donīt include Geoglyph which is the cool one, so Geoglyph is $300 / per seat

erikals
10-30-2014, 01:39 AM
oh...

outch... that's way too steep for me... :° :l

erikals
09-07-2017, 11:13 PM
http://www.quadspinner.com/WMToolbox
http://www.quadspinner.com/Helios/Index
http://www.quadspinner.com/GeoGlyph/Index

http://www.quadspinner.com/Home

WMToolbox + Helios are now part of GeoGlyph, at $100 for 4K resolution.
much better   :)

interestingly, Quadspinner is about to launch a new app, currently in Beta > Quadspinner TOR


https://vimeo.com/218378462

Awesome!  :king:

Marander
09-07-2017, 11:48 PM
WMToolbox + Helios are now part of GeoGlyph, at $100 for 4K resolution.
much better   :)

interestingly, Quadspinner is about to launch a new app, currently in Beta > Quadspinner TOR


https://vimeo.com/218378462

Awesome!  :king:

Uhm you got me exited there, finally an update from Quadspinner... just to see this is old news.

Geoglyph 2 is node locked and the UI a bit a mess and not very stable. The WorldMachine development pace and communication is on a LW3DG level. (WM is required for GG).

With the track record of Quadspinner / Dax Pandi and his various abadonned projects (MDK Elements, Vue metanodes, Helios, now Geoglyph) as well as missing documentation, no thanks, I'm not buying.

Marander
09-07-2017, 11:58 PM
... and as a sidenote, 4k for heightmaps is not really great except for background landscapes. I do all maps in 8k whenever possible.

So calculate the price of full Geoglyph 2 ($300 nodelocked) + WMPro ($250). Both required for 8k and higher. Quite expensive for abadonneware.

Better look at Houdini Indie which does the job even better.

Marander
09-08-2017, 12:20 AM
To elaborate WM communication and development pace:

WM3 unstable and in beta since years.

Build 3016 (minor beta update ) - July 14, 2017

Build 3015 (minor beta update) - April 15, 2017

State of the World (Machine) 2017 (explanation for long dev silence) - February 7, 2017

Undo Support (blog update) - August 13, 2015

...

Latest stable release / update 2.3.7 - October 23, 2014

erikals
09-08-2017, 12:21 AM
yes, i'm going for 4K for now. (uprezing with median filter + masks)

agree that Houdini Indie is the way to go for most people.
the look i'm going for is easier to achieve in Geoglyph though.

even though anything is possible with Houdini.

erikals
09-08-2017, 12:32 AM
by the way, techniques for the ones interested >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4uej9tppsU

Marander
09-08-2017, 01:56 AM
yes, i'm going for 4K for now. (uprezing with median filter + masks)


So which version of WorldMachine do you have?

The Standard edition is too slow with its 2 core limitation for calculating 8k maps. For me 4k maps are not great to use (and uprez does not make it any better because it will still lack details). But for background mountains it can be ok. And if you have the Pro edition, the small Geoglyph edition is a setback. And $300 for a plugin (which is not very stable and will most likely not be continued in future) for a software that is not getting updates in a reasonable amount of time is too much in my opinion.

erikals
09-08-2017, 03:19 AM
So which version of WorldMachine do you have?
only World Machine 2 standard ($100) considering Geoglyph plugin ($100)

Houdini Indie for terrain is interesting, however there are Pros / Cons to each app
a nice read regarding that > https://80.lv/articles/procedural-landscape-generation-for-game-environments

planning using Houdini more in the future.

Wickedpup
09-08-2017, 03:25 AM
Looks like Geo Control is still alive....
http:// www.world-creator.com (http://www.world-creator.com)

Marander
09-08-2017, 04:27 AM
Looks like Geo Control is still alive....
http:// www.world-creator.com (http://www.world-creator.com)

Interesting, thanks!

Marander
09-08-2017, 04:31 AM
Houdini Indie for terrain is interesting, however there are Pros / Cons to each app
a nice read regarding that > https://80.lv/articles/procedural-landscape-generation-for-game-environments


Interesting read, thanks.

For me WM2.x / 3.x Beta is ok for what I need.

To access the latest 3.x Betas I would have to pay $99 maintenance which is not worth it with the current development pace.

As I mentioned, I wouldn't really recommend getting it again now, compared to Houdini Indie 16.

prometheus
09-10-2017, 08:13 AM
WMToolbox + Helios are now part of GeoGlyph, at $100 for 4K resolution.
much better   :)

interestingly, Quadspinner is about to launch a new app, currently in Beta > Quadspinner TOR


https://vimeo.com/218378462

Awesome!  :king:

I thought Helios was discontinued completly? so now what?..is he implementing that as his own atmospheric engine with his own terrain generator, and tries to make a competitive option as alternative to vue?

erikals
09-10-2017, 09:46 AM
i have no idea, i think it is terrain only though.

regarding GeoGlyph, tested textured displacement filters in LW, and it did an alright job on it.
so might skip the GeoGlyph thing... maybe.

reason > it's yet one more expense, and yet one more thing to learn, and 4K only.
could pay $240 for 8K resolution, however that'd mean a mandatory upgrade of World Machine also > $210
= $450 upgrade .... a bit much.

prometheus
09-12-2017, 11:44 AM
i have no idea, i think it is terrain only though.

regarding GeoGlyph, tested textured displacement filters in LW, and it did an alright job on it.
so might skip the GeoGlyph thing... maybe.

reason > it's yet one more expense, and yet one more thing to learn, and 4K only.
could pay $240 for 8K resolution, however that'd mean a mandatory upgrade of World Machine also > $210
= $450 upgrade .... a bit much.

Not sure where you got the information of helios being bundled with Geoglyph? canīt find anything on that on his site, and I was confused since I know it needs vue to run, and furthermore, it was discontinued.
so GeGlyph can not be Geoglyph + Helios, Helios was only an vue addon for better clouds, so yes..it can only be terrain with Geoglyph.
or maybe he just bundled a sale with geoglyph and helios, though they really do not have anything to do with eachother as part of.
Misread or misunderstood?

erikals
09-12-2017, 01:14 PM
hm.. you know, that seemed a bit strange indeed. however now i can't find the link... i'll have to assume i misread somewhere... :l

maybe it was a bundle or something.

m.d.
09-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Might wanna hold off on all that for a bit
Been beta testing this for a while
http://daxpandhi.com/Blog/eue-2017

Marander
09-14-2017, 04:52 AM
Looks like Geo Control is still alive....
http:// www.world-creator.com (http://www.world-creator.com)

Intersting. Renders seem not on the same level as Terragen and Vue to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Great looking realtime clouds:

https://youtu.be/rGz2AW6hD7Y

prometheus
09-16-2017, 07:29 AM
Intersting. Renders seem not on the same level as Terragen and Vue to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Great looking realtime clouds:

https://youtu.be/rGz2AW6hD7Y

Have been seeing truesky some years ago, Impressive since itīs realtime, it is however still only at a 50% or so in quality and realism compared to a rendered cloud as we can see in vue or terragen, the clouds still to blocky in detail, and lacks the softness fading, and the light scattering illumination as well as shadows are not there, itīs a trade off...ideally this is something one would like to have when setting a scene up, to see it in realtime, and then a checkbox before a final render with all the improvements that is lacking in realtime.

jwiede
09-17-2017, 12:01 AM
Might wanna hold off on all that for a bit
Been beta testing this for a while
http://daxpandhi.com/Blog/eue-2017

Wow, that looks amazing. I've been a real fan of GeoGlyph, and could kind of see where they were heading, will be very interested to see Tor when released. Hopefully there will be some path for existing GeoGlyph customers to get to Tor, as GeoGlyph itself has been a bit moribund in progress.

stevecullum
10-01-2017, 05:27 AM
That TOR looks good. In the meantime, the ANT landscape generator in Blender 2.79 now has erosion options which makes the results much more realistic than before. Worth checking out for a freebie.

prometheus
10-01-2017, 09:45 AM
That TOR looks good. In the meantime, the ANT landscape generator in Blender 2.79 now has erosion options which makes the results much more realistic than before. Worth checking out for a freebie.

Thanks for the heads up on that, currently just have blender 2.78 installed, And the preview of blender 2.8 with principle shaders and evee, but the ANT lanscape yields an error when adding it in 2.8..and there isnīt any option anymore to tweak the settings..so some bug in there I suspect, cause that install feels very buggy.

stevecullum
10-01-2017, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the heads up on that, currently just have blender 2.78 installed, And the preview of blender 2.8 with principle shaders and evee, but the ANT lanscape yields an error when adding it in 2.8..and there isnīt any option anymore to tweak the settings..so some bug in there I suspect, cause that install feels very buggy.

I did check out 2.8 out of curiosity, but I couldn't keep it alive for very long - very buggy currently, but to be expected.

prometheus
10-01-2017, 01:36 PM
I did check out 2.8 out of curiosity, but I couldn't keep it alive for very long - very buggy currently, but to be expected.

exactly, I got a lot of blender just shutting down from switching in sculpting mode to object mode in evee setup, ANT not working properly, and some other stuff.
guess I have to download and install 2.79 to find out how the newer ANT and erosions works.

stevecullum
10-01-2017, 01:43 PM
It's a bit slow at higher resolutions, so I would stick to low subdivsion settings while your playing about with the terrain tools. Houdini has also added some decent terrain tools and they work much faster. I'm just using the non-commercial free version, so some of the output options are disabled. But you can still export an OBJ of the final mesh.

prometheus
10-01-2017, 03:20 PM
It's a bit slow at higher resolutions, so I would stick to low subdivsion settings while your playing about with the terrain tools. Houdini has also added some decent terrain tools and they work much faster. I'm just using the non-commercial free version, so some of the output options are disabled. But you can still export an OBJ of the final mesh.

Just installed blender 2.79...canīt recall they provided installers before.

activated the ANT landscape plugin (beats me why they do not have it on by default?)
works ok, as You say a bit too slow at higher resolutions, if you were to compare a subpatch terrain with procedurals..Lightwave is way way faster, then again it may not be proper to compare ordinary displacement..blender has that as well though I may argue if it really would be any faster that lw procedurals.

Hereīs the odd thing...Lightwave procedurals are non destructive in layout, while the ANT landscape generation in blender is destructive, once you enter erode..you canīt go back and change the landscape settings, so that is a bit off the chart that you simply can not raise subdiv level on it...If you find that is what needed for detailed erosions....if this terrain generator could evolve a bit with non destructive workflow and a bit faster..it would be really sweet.

erosions works, but it needs quite high divisions, so not sure if itīs worth it...itīs not very tweaking friendly, though if you know exactly what you do to get a certain look..then it works, but...three things, the ANT generator gives you..
1. more adapted fractals specially for terrain.
2. instant zero edges, no messing with masks or gradients to get zero edges.
3. erosions
4. all for no cost at all
Lightwave provides none of that...so letīs hope someday, or maybe I should predict 4 years from now?
Oh..I forgot, I can sculpt on it as well where I need overhang..In scene context.

prometheus
10-01-2017, 05:42 PM
Played a bit more in blender 2,79 and ANT...
this time around leaving erosions out..since it takes too long to work with, might use them once I get customed with the rest, but...I found that this enhanced ANT is much better with much more preset settings, And I found that it also may be non destructive since I found the settings also in the transform tab, which can be refreshed and rechanged.
apart from many more presets..(you also got planet mode for round stuff, and easy to tweak to an asteroid) we also got more effects with various filters such as lunar or rock and many more, so you can go a long way before entering erosion, I will have to check if I can sculpt and then use erosion to get a good flow around that.

using viewport ambient occlusion is also great to help accenuate cavity areas.

prometheus
10-01-2017, 06:01 PM
Played a bit more in blender 2,79 and ANT...
this time around leaving erosions out..since it takes too long to work with, might use them once I get customed with the rest, but...I found that this enhanced ANT is much better with much more preset settings, And I found that it also may be non destructive since I found the settings also in the transform tab, which can be refreshed and rechanged.
apart from many more presets..(you also got planet mode for round stuff, and easy to tweak to an asteroid) we also got more effects with various filters such as lunar or rock and many more, so you can go a long way before entering erosion, I will have to check if I can sculpt and then use erosion to get a good flow around that.

Edited..

Nope...sculpting works on top of a terrain in blender, and you can acess the erode button, but it will not work..got error messages unfortunately.

stevecullum
10-02-2017, 12:39 PM
Seems like you are finding your way around the new ANT tools ok. Shame you can’t sculpt and then erode, but I guess sculpt is a modifier and would be sat on top of anything you did with the ANT tools. I hope the devs make it into a modifier - would be faster and more flexible!

Marander
11-23-2017, 01:58 AM
Wow, that looks amazing. I've been a real fan of GeoGlyph, and could kind of see where they were heading, will be very interested to see Tor when released. Hopefully there will be some path for existing GeoGlyph customers to get to Tor, as GeoGlyph itself has been a bit moribund in progress.

Hey John, just to infom you (in case you haven't seen), there is progress in the GG2 development:

GeoGlyph 2.0 Update on Cyber Monday
- Support for World Machine 3.0.17
- New smart installer
- Build engine enhancements
- 50+ updates and bugfixes

I just got Geoglyph 2 Professional with a discount of 40% ($144 instead of $240).

MichaelT
11-23-2017, 02:58 AM
@Marander: Nice tool :) Didn't know about that one.

I also had a look at TOR, but this is rather exactly what L3DT does (I mean quite literally) Nice to see some competition there. That being said.. the L3DT developer isn't an artist. And never shown what the tool actually is capable of. To his detriment I might add.

Marander
11-23-2017, 03:03 AM
@Marander: Nice tool :) Didn't know about that one.

Yeah it's great (have been playing with the GG2 Community Edition so far).

Please note, even though it replaces and enhances large parts of the WM interface, it's an addon for World Machine (not a standalone product).

MichaelT
11-23-2017, 03:12 AM
Yeah it's great (have been playing with the GG2 Community Edition so far).

Please note, even though it replaces and enhances large parts of the WM interface, it's an addon for World Machine (not a standalone product).

Yeah, I noted that :) Still.. don't know how far along that TOR tool is.. I am much more keen on that one. Since being able to have proper destruction of a terrain, is pretty much the only reason I still keep L3DT around.

erikals
03-01-2018, 04:11 PM
QuadSpinner Gaea

Indie  $99
Professional  $199
Enterprise  $299


https://vimeo.com/255947817

http://quadspinner.com/gaea/order

FAQ - https://medium.com/quadspinner/gaea-faq-8211c17f6b01

prometheus
03-02-2018, 03:40 PM
QuadSpinner Gaea

Indie  $99
Professional  $199
Enterprise  $299


https://vimeo.com/255947817

http://quadspinner.com/gaea/order

FAQ - https://medium.com/quadspinner/gaea-faq-8211c17f6b01

Thatīs nice erikals, do you know if it would be possible to sculpt that with overhangs.. normals bulging over and such?
or is it still limited to only height variations?

erikals
03-02-2018, 06:53 PM
yes, neat realtime update for sure, i already have World Machine so will be sticking to that for now.
for others QuadSpinner Gaea is certainly something to consider. if i didn't have WM i'd probably go with Gaea.


sculpt that with overhangs

good question, i think not (?) haven't seen any features covering it.
so the only way to fix that would be to export from Gaea, make poly version with normal map (in Application X). then manually create the overhang in LW.
should work, even though that's a bit limited...

prometheus
03-03-2018, 05:36 AM
yes, neat realtime update for sure, i already have World Machine so will be sticking to that for now.
for others QuadSpinner Gaea is certainly something to consider. if i didn't have WM i'd probably go with Gaea.



good question, i think not (?) haven't seen any features covering it.
so the only way to fix that would be to export from Gaea, make poly version with normal map (in Application X). then manually create the overhang in LW.
should work, even though that's a bit limited...

oh..I would use blender for sculpting overhangs...previously I did some test with sculptris with sculpted overhangs and exporting out a heightmap from that, made erosions on that with worldmachine, but it would only place itself on areas around the overhang and naturally miss the area the overhang is covering over the ground.

So a tool that could paint brush in erosions on either pre-made overhangs or overhangs directly in the software would be nice, otherwise it would be sculpt patterns only based on a texture or procedural texture in blender, but not a true erosion, crack natural brush.

erikals
03-03-2018, 07:05 AM
yes, apps with sculpt features are sometimes the best for this,
overhang seems to be something World Machine / Terragen / Gaea puts on hold.

rock modeling is also something i feel gets left behind

mixing Terrain generators and Sculpt apps seems to be the way to go,
or sometimes, like you say, just simply go for one, or the other.

prometheus
03-03-2018, 09:09 AM
yes, apps with sculpt features are sometimes the best for this,
overhang seems to be something World Machine / Terragen / Gaea puts on hold.

rock modeling is also something i feel gets left behind

mixing Terrain generators and Sculpt apps seems to be the way to go,
or sometimes, like you say, just simply go for one, or the other.

Vue actually does overhangs, and normal displace sculpting, and then yo can add erosion brushes, though those arenīt as good as you see in world maching or geoglyph tools, or world creator.
World creator I do not know if can do that.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155885-World-Creator-Awesome

erikals
03-03-2018, 10:42 AM
oh,...   :)

i didn't know, that's cool! hoping others will follow   :)


World Creator, forgot about that one...  (Professional  $199)

prometheus
03-03-2018, 02:46 PM
oh,...   :)

i didn't know, that's cool! hoping others will follow   :)


World Creator, forgot about that one...  (Professional  $199)

if you donīt need erosions, and just want cliffs rocks...I would go blender, personally I used a lot of fractals on normal displacements in lightwave before, but I hardly do that now, it has it uses but is undoubtly bound the to fractals you use, and you really have a hard time localize it where you need it..with blender sculpts you can use any texture and draw as a anchored brush, including itīs own procedurals.

But I think I have mentioned that a lot before, I tried houdinis landscape tools briefly, but I think it is sluggish, and to much of jumping between the nodes and tools, I think I can be more productive with simple blender sculpts, and it would also probably render faster than houdinis tools, or lightwave procedurals which would require freezing time before it renders.

the issue I may have with blender ..that is that I do not have that much of procedural textures to choose from as I have in lightwave, though some of the voronoi procedurals in blender is nice once youknow them, and another issue is basic texturing, where it was just a matter of adding the image, set it to cubic mapping and scale it in lightwave standard layer (I do not like the node approach)
While in blender for texturing, you need to add texture coordinate node and a mapping node.

Advantages in blender when scaling textures since you can select all axis at once and scale uniformly, which is a 3 times operation every god darn time for any change you do in Lighwave unfortunately, and sculpting they tried in core, but so far zippo (Mark said they need to implement some stuff there first for multi change of value sliders)

Ztreem
03-03-2018, 03:36 PM
if you donīt need erosions, and just want cliffs rocks...I would go blender, personally I used a lot of fractals on normal displacements in lightwave before, but I hardly do that now, it has it uses but is undoubtly bound the to fractals you use, and you really have a hard time localize it where you need it..with blender sculpts you can use any texture and draw as a anchored brush, including itīs own procedurals.

But I think I have mentioned that a lot before, I tried houdinis landscape tools briefly, but I think it is sluggish, and to much of jumping between the nodes and tools, I think I can be more productive with simple blender sculpts, and it would also probably render faster than houdinis tools, or lightwave procedurals which would require freezing time before it renders.

the issue I may have with blender ..that is that I do not have that much of procedural textures to choose from as I have in lightwave, though some of the voronoi procedurals in blender is nice once youknow them, and another issue is basic texturing, where it was just a matter of adding the image, set it to cubic mapping and scale it in lightwave standard layer (I do not like the node approach)
While in blender for texturing, you need to add texture coordinate node and a mapping node.

Advantages in blender when scaling textures since you can select all axis at once and scale uniformly, which is a 3 times operation every god darn time for any change you do in Lighwave unfortunately, and sculpting they tried in core, but so far zippo (Mark said they need to implement some stuff there first for multi change of value sliders)

First I didn’t like the blender interface so much but now when I learned it more. I think it is really nice and it has a lot of fast workflows that I now miss in LW.
Have you looked into blender gurus essential rock pack? He has a package with rock textures for sculpting that looks really good, maybe that is something for you?

prometheus
03-03-2018, 04:08 PM
First I didn’t like the blender interface so much but now when I learned it more. I think it is really nice and it has a lot of fast workflows that I now miss in LW.
Have you looked into blender gurus essential rock pack? He has a package with rock textures for sculpting that looks really good, maybe that is something for you?

I didnīt like blender UI either, but I have started to become more acquainted with it and itīs more acceptable to use now.
also constantly learning the sculpting tools, to get exactly what I want in the brushes.

Yes...I know about that, itīs additional cost..and itīs photogrammetry/ real life scans of rocks, converted to displacement, and sculpt brushes, definitely interesting, but it comes at a cost of course..three packs where one (the essential rock pack) is only the brushes.

Not sure though, you can do wonderful things with the fractal noises alone, but it requires a good eye, and various layers of scaling etc.

Will have to record that some more, I also have made my own ANT preset landscape presets, so I can load in anytime and also re-tweak the landscape in various ways and save again to another presets, there are some small secrets of using the exact rigth noise to get what is needed..I will show that someday.
after I make the initial landscape, I often use dynotopo constant detail and flood fill it to even out the resolution all over, which helps in cavities to avoid distortions, after that I go to sculpting with these brushes ..the free IK blender brush set I also use and retweak some settings in voronoi texture to get what I want.

Maybe I can get a recording session tomorrow if time permits between washing and cleaning.