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Nicolas Jordan
10-27-2014, 11:14 AM
I've been out of the loop on video editing software for a long time. I'm looking at getting into doing some architectural animations and I'm looking for some good video editing software for cutting them together with transitions and music etc. I used After Effects many years ago for some minor editing and compositing work but I'm looking for something a bit cheaper that has all the stuff I need for basic editing. I was considering getting Corel Video Studio Pro. Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

SBowie
10-27-2014, 11:42 AM
There are (or at least, used to be - haven't looked lately) some inexpensive versions of Vegas that weren't half bad.

Ryan Roye
10-27-2014, 12:13 PM
I feel sony vegas edit is a good investment, though some may consider that moderate in the expense category but the licenses are perpetual. I got my copy for about $400.

I would not recommend Corel Visual Studio to anyone; it is only a small step above Microsoft Movie Maker and it has a LOT of workflow problems that will basically have you running into a brick wall at some point. It is not designed for production use.

Triodin
10-27-2014, 12:34 PM
I'm a big fan of Premiere Pro, I love the built-in titler. Uses a lot of the same UI as After Effects. Some people hate the whole cloud thing, but mine has paid for itself a few times over every month.

Nicolas Jordan
10-27-2014, 12:56 PM
There are (or at least, used to be - haven't looked lately) some inexpensive versions of Vegas that weren't half bad.

That's another piece of software I was considering and it might be a good alternative to Premiere or After Effects.

- - - Updated - - -


I feel sony vegas edit is a good investment, though some may consider that moderate in the expense category but the licenses are perpetual. I got my copy for about $400.

I would not recommend Corel Visual Studio to anyone; it is only a small step above Microsoft Movie Maker and it has a LOT of workflow problems that will basically have you running into a brick wall at some point. It is not designed for production use.

I consider myself to be a bit of a control freak when it comes to my work so maybe it's a good idea for me to avoid Corel Video Studio in favor of a more professional software.

Markc
10-27-2014, 01:14 PM
How about Hitfilm 2 Ultimate (Hitfilm 3 Pro has just been announced for no extra cost)
This does Editing/Compositing/Effects.
http://hitfilm.com/
$299 us

Megalodon2.0
10-27-2014, 01:17 PM
I've used Vegas Pro9 for lots of animation editing and have had no problems. Over on the Foundry forum there was some stability issues mentioned, but I've never experienced them. Then again, I'm using an older version. But for me, Vegas has been great - and it too has a built in Titler. And unlike Premiere - you can OWN the license. ;)

SBowie
10-27-2014, 01:28 PM
The pro version of Vegas is quite nice. I was referring to lesser editions as potentially being quite a bargain. I bought one as a gift for someone once ... basically to get out of doing an edit job for them for free. ;)

Megalodon2.0
10-27-2014, 01:42 PM
The pro version of Vegas is quite nice. I was referring to lesser editions as potentially being quite a bargain. I bought one as a gift for someone once ... basically to get out of doing an edit job for them for free. ;)

Wise move. :)

I don't have any experience with the "lesser versions," but I would bet they are pretty good as well.

And as Markc mentioned above, Hitfilm3 was just announced and it is looking VERY good - OpenEXR support finally. I don't know how good an editor it is - or the titling for that matter - but it is definitely something I would look into if you're not interested in the more expensive Vegas Pro version.

m.d.
10-27-2014, 02:53 PM
best bang for the buck....

Davinci....and its free....

CaptainMarlowe
10-27-2014, 03:23 PM
Yep, I would have thought of Da Vinci Resolve Light, which is quite complete for a free app.

If not, you can also give a go to Lightworks, although I have not tested it, so I don't what it's good at.
www.lwks.com

Greenlaw
10-27-2014, 03:50 PM
I currently use Vegas Pro 13...been using Vegas since version 3 or 4. It's very easy to use and powerful. I sometimes use Premiere when I'm working on a computer that doesn't have Vegas--since I'm on CC, it's convenient to install anywhere I need it...but I really like using Vegas much better and will use it instead when I can.

Since Version 9 or 10, Vegas will randomly crash on quit, which is annoying but the crash hasn't been destructive. Occasionally the build notes will report it as fixed, but I still get the crash sometimes. Apart from that, Vegas runs well and I've never had a problem with it.

The interface is very similar to their music editing program Acid, so if you use that too, learning Vegas is a snap.

And as noted above, it's a perpetual license. They release a major upgrade about every year. I skipped an upgrade once but there was no penalty when I upgraded to a later version. License is standard--you can install on one workstation and one mobile computer. You can transfer to a different machine a few times without hassle but if you do this too many times, you'll need to contact them.

G.

Danner
10-27-2014, 05:34 PM
I'd go with Vegas too, Hitfilm is very slow, Premier is fine, I have to use it a lot, but Vegas is cheaper and it has a better workflow.

No idea about Da Vinci or lightworks, being free software you never know if it's ready for serious work. I've tried some that are quite bad, but others have surprised me. Gimp for example is amazing, a very viable photoshop alternative. It's awkward if you are used to photoshop and it's missing a few useful things but overall it's amazing that it's free. Same goes for DraftSight, a free alternative to AutoCAD. and Of course Blender.

sandman300
10-27-2014, 07:15 PM
I use Grass Valley's Edius for all my editing. It's not the cheapest out there but it can handle just about any file type, has DVD authoring software embedded in it, stereoscopic editing, and there are many 3rd party plugins available for it, including RX3, and many New Blue plugins. It also is not dependent on a video card they way some others are, so it runs just as well on a laptop.

Although I've never tried it, I understand that it is certified to work under Boot Camp.

Nicolas Jordan
10-27-2014, 07:23 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions! I'm thinking "Vegas Pro 13 Edit" for $400 is probably a safe bet. I might look into Da Vinci and some of the others mentioned before I make a purchase decision. Even though I'm familiar with After Effects I think I'm going to avoid Adobe products mainly because I don't really like their plans and options.

jwiede
10-27-2014, 07:33 PM
No idea about Da Vinci or lightworks, being free software you never know if it's ready for serious work.

Well, in the case of DaVinci Resolve, because the non-free version is _widely_ used in pro video production market, it's a bit different than the Lightworks situation.

Greenlaw
10-27-2014, 11:52 PM
Good choice. IMO, I don't think you can go wrong with Vegas.

BTW, After Effects is a compositing program, not a video editor. Yes, you can sort of edit video with it but it's really not designed for that task--any video editor (Premiere, Vegas, Final Cut, etc.,) would be more preferable. Conversely, you wouldn't want to use a video editor for any serious compositing work either. :)

G.

bazsa73
10-28-2014, 01:53 AM
Well, in the case of DaVinci Resolve, because the non-free version is _widely_ used in pro video production market, it's a bit different than the Lightworks situation.

I'll give it a try.

erikals
10-28-2014, 02:09 AM
regarding Vegas, i like some of it, but this "add / manipulate picture" method is just clumsy... :/

anyone knows how DaVinci would go about this ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqx6johGMIc

erikals
10-28-2014, 02:37 AM
How about Hitfilm 2 Ultimate (Hitfilm 3 Pro has just been announced for no extra cost)
This does Editing/Compositing/Effects...

if you downloaded the Express version for free some time back, then you can get HitFilm 3 for $250

- new is support for OpenFX, which hopefully means we'll see RSMB, NeatVideo, Topaz plugins for it soon...
- also now supports in-to-out 16-bit OpenEXR pipeline

more info >
http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/10/fxhome-announces-hitfilm-3-pro

and >
http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/5719/announcing-hitfilm-3-pro

CaptainMarlowe
10-28-2014, 03:45 AM
The nice thing with Hitfilm pro 3 is that it ships with the AE/FCP plug-ins at the same price (instead of the previous far-fetched price of 499$ for the plug-ins alone).
But even like that, I don't see it replacing Motion + FCP.
For final grading Da Vinci Resolve is just incredibly fast and easy... and free. (I haven't tested in depth the NLE part, since I edit my videos in FCP and send them to DV for final corrections).

erikals
10-28-2014, 05:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9YvGV8WniE

tyrot
10-28-2014, 05:46 AM
i was thinking same about adobe at first.. ..but i changed my idea.. and enjoying great software with a very minimal cost. So all the way adobe here:) premiere rocks by the way.. integration with after effects plus - audition - plus - speedgrade - and photoshop .. Adobe CC is a steal imho..

erikals
10-28-2014, 05:48 AM
CC = good price, bad policy

Danner
10-28-2014, 06:23 AM
I hope they improved the speed of HitFilm, it has really good effect capabilities.

erikals
10-28-2014, 08:43 AM
@TooshkaWinConway - there has been progress made on save/load times, which obviously helps as projects get larger. I've still got that cityscape project on my computer so I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow in terms of how long it takes to load/save. I don't recall it being prohibitive.
so should be improved, though not sure how much...

Ryan Roye
10-28-2014, 08:55 AM
I'd be wary of using Hitfilm as a primary video editor as that isn't what it was designed for. You'll find simple, basic things like re-timing, transitions, audio adjustment, to be less than convenient... at least that was my experience with Hitfilm 2 Express. Use Hitfilm for what it focuses in; visual effects.

Danner
10-28-2014, 11:28 AM
The slownes I'm talking about with Hitfilm is playback. Every other editor can play a few layers of HD video on my system without needing to render the sequence out. Hitfilm stutters after one layer, totally unusable as you can't preview any changes you make, (reminds me of what it was like to edit video in the late 90s)

Ma3rk
10-28-2014, 01:03 PM
I'd like to chime in regarding Premiere Pro as well. A few years ago, I was lucky enough to win a copy of Adobe's Production Premium Suite CS5. I had to wait awhile in order to use it as I didn't have a 64-bit system. I eventually built one and made sure I had the video hardware (nVidea Quadro 4000 in my case) in order to take advantage of the Mercury Engine that it uses. I also use BlackMagic Design capture hardware. I've upgraded to CS6 (which I believe is still possible to find) but have no intention of going the CC route frankly.

About the only limitation in editing that I've had is with my own slightly arthritic fingers, not the software. Editing & playback is truly real time even with most of the common effects you might add such as transitions, color correction and even changing a clips playback rate. I've yet to encounter a codec that it didn't understand, and mixing source materials is never an issue either. HD projects slow up a little with more than 3 layers, but I'm not using an external RAID drive either. I'm just using very fast non-striped internal SATA drives. If another major project in HD comes along then I'll add the external drive but for now I've not had the need.

Just my 2 cents.

M

tyrot
10-28-2014, 02:07 PM
Ma3rk - if you edit regularly - you must update to CC - premiere pro especially is on steroids..

Megalodon2.0
10-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Ma3rk - if you edit regularly - you must update to CC - premiere pro especially is on steroids..

Yeah... and have to pay Adobe FOREVER just to open and edit your files?

I think not. Especially when there are MANY great editors and compositors out there that allow you to OWN a license.

Greenlaw
10-28-2014, 04:48 PM
Re: CC, I use it daily and think it's a great value. If you need to use more than one Adobe program regularly, the subscription can be a bargain. I routinely use Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effect Dreamweaver, Audition and InDesign, and occasionally use Premiere. Subscription costs the same regardless of how many programs you want to use. The main thing that sold me on Cloud was their licensing system. I frequently need to use the programs between my workstation at home, my laptop and an offsite location. You're only allowed two activations at a time so being able to kill an active license remotely makes it very convenient to run CC anywhere I need to. I don't know any other program that allows you to remotely deactivate a license so you can run it elsewhere. (I wish I could do the same with my third party plug-ins.)

I used to love using Premiere but several years ago, but I felt it had grown clunky and less flexible than it had once been. That's when I switched to Vegas. I'm sure Premiere has gotten better since then but I don't have any reason to switch back at this point. If Vegas were to get too expensive or otherwise fail me, I might switch then since Premiere comes as part of the subscription anyway. For now, I'm very comfortable with Vegas.

Re: HitFilm Pro, Sony included it with a recent Vegas Pro upgrade promotion. I haven't used it but I paid a little extra to also get the HitFilm AE plug-ins, which I do use, and they're terrific! Yesterday I got a notice from HitFilm that I'm getting complimentary HitFilm 3 Pro when it's released--guess I really should give it a try now. :)

G.

Megalodon2.0
10-28-2014, 05:10 PM
Re: CC, I use it daily and think it's a great value. If you need to use more than one Adobe program regularly, the subscription can be a bargain.

Absolutely. It IS a great value, but the real price is too high to pay, ultimately. Adobe wins, we lose.

The problem is RENTAL-ONLY. The year before they instituted this policy they sold CC alongside of CS6 - and no one complained. It's not a problem when you offer choice. But when you remove that choice, Adobe should not be rewarded with your cash. If LW3DG went rental-only, they would lose me as a customer as Adobe did. I personally will not reward ANY company that screws over it's customers by removing choice.

Edit. And since we have MANY other options, it's better to choose other than Adobe.

Greenlaw
10-28-2014, 06:13 PM
Not for me. Part of my move to CC is that the artists and clients I currently work with are all on CC, and we need to be able to share files.

Plus, I've been really wanting to use AE as an alternative to Fusion (which is still my primary compositing program,) because there are a lot of cool AE plugins that won't run on Fusion. (Trapcode Particulars in, um, particular--that tool alone has come through for me all summer long.) But for the longest time, it was difficult to justify getting AE since I was already vested in Fusion. When I learned that AE came with CC, the decision to join became a no-brainer to me.

But obviously each situation is different, so CC is not going to be ideal for everybody. If my situation changes where I don't think I'll be using it for a long time, I can always end my subscription and rejoin later if I need or want to.

G.

Greenlaw
10-28-2014, 06:31 PM
That said, I don't really like 'subscription only' systems. The switch to this system by certain companies has actually killed their products to me because I can't possibly afford to subscribe to everything.

For the time being, despite a few mis-steps, Adobe is delivering on what I need to get my work done at what I feel is a reasonable price, so I'll keep my CC sub for now. TBH, I really don't feel like I'm losing out here. If they stop delivering on what I need from them, I can always switch to something else. (Tip to CC subscribers: when you complete a job, be sure to save a copy of your work in a universal or pre-CC format just in case you decide to drop CC.)

G.

tyrot
10-28-2014, 07:03 PM
no no no .. adobe wins and using its software we also win ... *using same software over 3 pcs - it is just awesome and super generous if you ask me... I was SO skeptical at first...reading negative comments etc. but having all those softwares with a monthly small payment = awesome...
and last thing is direct link between softwares... great time saver ..I dont think i can work without it... for me best thing happened to me lately...is CC

Megalodon2.0
10-28-2014, 07:15 PM
no no no .. adobe wins and using its software we also win ... *using same software over 3 pcs - it is just awesome and super generous if you ask me... I was SO skeptical at first...reading negative comments etc. but having all those softwares with a monthly small payment = awesome...
and last thing is direct link between softwares... great time saver ..I dont think i can work without it... for me best thing happened to me lately...is CC

And then just wait till every software you want to use is rental-only - because companies like that continuous revenue stream.

Then see how happy you will be renting EVERYTHING because perpetual licenses will be phased out in favor of that revenue stream. If Adobe and AD wins, this WILL happen.

erikals
10-28-2014, 07:15 PM
forcing monopoly is not winning :/

Ma3rk
10-28-2014, 08:57 PM
Yeah... and have to pay Adobe FOREVER just to open and edit your files?

I think not. Especially when there are MANY great editors and compositors out there that allow you to OWN a license.


Please guys. Let's NOT turn this into yet another Adobe CC war.

I've many reasons why I won't go that route, but if it suits you that's fine. I use pretty much all of the programs in the Suite regularly, but it's not my daily work. My primary profession is motion picture & television set lighting so there are often huge gaps in time that I can even take on an editing or motion graphics project. A subscription that I might not use for months at a time doesn't make sense.

Besides, I already consider PPro as on steroids frankly. There are a couple things they've added to the CC version that might be nice upon occasion but so far nothing I can't live without, are of no interest to me, or I already have an alternate means of doing.

Snosrap
10-28-2014, 09:26 PM
I used Premier at work for some time but for home I picked up a copy of Vegas Movie Studio and have since upgraded to Vegas Pro. Im my experience the playback of the Vegas products blows Premier out of the water on the machines I use. I'd highly recommend any of the Vegas products and really the best bang for the money is one of their Movie Studio versions.

Snosrap
10-28-2014, 09:27 PM
Hit Film looks to be very interesting for what it can do. Vegas does little in FX and is pretty much just a solid video editor.

hazmat777
10-28-2014, 09:40 PM
Have to agree with the positive notes made about Vegas. Plus, Sony's training material is great.

Megalodon2.0
10-28-2014, 09:44 PM
Please guys. Let's NOT turn this into yet another Adobe CC war.

I've many reasons why I won't go that route, but if it suits you that's fine. I use pretty much all of the programs in the Suite regularly, but it's not my daily work. My primary profession is motion picture & television set lighting so there are often huge gaps in time that I can even take on an editing or motion graphics project. A subscription that I might not use for months at a time doesn't make sense.

Besides, I already consider PPro as on steroids frankly. There are a couple things they've added to the CC version that might be nice upon occasion but so far nothing I can't live without, are of no interest to me, or I already have an alternate means of doing.

This is not so much about the software, but about the FUTURE of software.

CC is a great deal, but IMO it's not worth selling your soul over. For some, it's a necessity that would create extreme problems if they could not use the software. But for MOST, it's a choice and you CAN use other software. It's very much like making a deal with the devil to be healthy and wealthy as long as you live, but then when you die you pay the price. Regarding CC, it's great now, but do you really want most of your software to be rental-only? If these corporate behemoths succeed with this rental-only plan, then that IS the way things will turn. If they fail, then software developers will think twice - "Adobe and AD failed forcing customers into a rental-only plan... I don't think we should go down that route."

How many people think of these repercussions? Or do they think "I'm only one person, it's not that big a deal."? People add up and if everyone thought that way we would be far worse off as a civilization. Yeah, it IS melodramatic, until you think "what if I had to rent most of my software."

Until Adobe returns the option to own a license, there will be an Adobe CC war. I and others won't let anyone forget it. ;)

Dexter2999
10-28-2014, 11:01 PM
The feature list of DaVinci Resolve Lite is reasonably full featured for a person who does part time editing. The stuff that is crippled is the stereoscopic features, the 4K monitoring RGB, and the media sharing. Other than that, it appears to be a fairly robust system.

CaptainMarlowe
10-28-2014, 11:57 PM
Agreed. I uses FCP X for editing, so no need to use Da Vinci Resolve other than for grading, but for a free product, it's a no-brainer, imho. Its NLE seems pretty capable.

As for Hitfilm, I tried the express version, but it didn't handled the comparison with FCP X. I didn't found it that intuitive as an NLE, but I guess it's more suited for VFX only (but for this, Motion is enough for my needs).

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 12:22 AM
The feature list of DaVinci Resolve Lite is reasonably full featured for a person who does part time editing. The stuff that is crippled is the stereoscopic features, the 4K monitoring RGB, and the media sharing. Other than that, it appears to be a fairly robust system.

I actually plan on testing Resolve before I upgrade my Vegas Pro. I've heard LOTS of good things about it and now that Fusion (which I own) is also under the same roof, it may be a good match.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 12:36 AM
What AD users think of rental-only...

http://cgpress.org/archives/autodesk-to-go-subscription-based-only.html#comment-16825

spherical
10-29-2014, 03:38 AM
What AD users think of rental-only...

http://cgpress.org/archives/autodesk-to-go-subscription-based-only.html#comment-16825

I "like" this part:

According to Anagnost, the shift in [subscription/rental-only] business model is not only the right thing for the company’s business, but also the right thing for customers.

Can you say "Bu!!Sh!t"? I knew you could.

The real telling part is:

Anagnost stated that there are still 2.9 million non-subcribers that happen to purchase perpetual licenses on an infrequent basis because they can, and that this isn’t good for the company’s ecosystem, because there is a significant number of people working with non-current releases.

Read: "ecosystem" as "shareholders" and you get the picture.

erikals
10-29-2014, 06:26 AM
one thing i really like about rental is that now i don't have to buy the full product

need "Feature X" one day but can't afford the full application ?
no problem, just rent the software for a month... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

this is great if you for example need to use nCloth in Maya
not much i would use Maya for these days honestly, but just as an example

tyrot
10-29-2014, 07:10 AM
softwares are becoming like TV channels.. i have no problem with that...

lightscape
10-29-2014, 07:57 AM
one thing i really like about rental is that now i don't have to buy the full product
[/SIZE]

Rental is good as long as its cheap and its the mainstream app everybody uses. I wouldn't rent something that's just up and coming like Corona renderer or badly managed software like Messiah.
Its cheaper than my gym plan, my tv and phone bills. None of which earns me my living.
For me the cost is actually cheaper to rent than to upgrade every two years.

tyrot
10-29-2014, 08:26 AM
Rental is good as long as its cheap and its the mainstream app everybody uses. I wouldn't rent something that's just up and coming like Corona renderer or badly managed software like Messiah.
Its cheaper than my gym plan, my tv and phone bills. None of which earns me my living.
For me the cost is actually cheaper to rent than to upgrade every two years.

+1

Ryan Roye
10-29-2014, 08:44 AM
Plus, Sony's training material is great.

I'll second this. The moment I finished watching all the videos that covered all the basics, I was pretty much up and running with video editing. The author of the content did a great job putting it together.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 09:33 AM
Rental is good as long as its cheap and its the mainstream app everybody uses. I wouldn't rent something that's just up and coming like Corona renderer or badly managed software like Messiah.
Its cheaper than my gym plan, my tv and phone bills. None of which earns me my living.
For me the cost is actually cheaper to rent than to upgrade every two years.


+1

But some people don't upgrade every two years. The "new features" aren't enough to entice them because they're not worth it. How many times have people in here said "Meh... the LWxxx new version doesn't look like it's worth it to me... I'm a modeler and there just isn't any love in Modeler these last two upgrades... I think I'll wait."? But NOW - with Adobe and soon to be AD - that CHOICE will have been removed.

And for the love of Mike... NO ONE is against rental - just rental ONLY. It's about CHOICE. If Adobe had perpetual licenses AND rental... you could still say the same things you're saying BUT we would not be complaining about CHOICE being removed. It really is THAT simple.

lightscape
10-29-2014, 10:07 AM
Well they did their math and its better for them to do rental only.
Its their business. Its their choice. It really is that simple. This is not a democracy for a presidential election.
If you think you can vote with your money then do so.
But accept that other people want rental especially if its cheap and its being provided by a company that is the market leader with software that is used a lot in production.
People who don't want to upgrade can stay with cs6 or use another software.
People who don't need the latest lightwave can stay in whatever version they want. I can't ever go back to lw 10, 9.
Those are free choices people make and you have it.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 10:34 AM
Well they did their math and its better for them to do rental only.
Its their business. Its their choice. It really is that simple. This is not a democracy for a presidential election.
If you think you can vote with your money then do so.
But accept that other people want rental especially if its cheap and its being provided by a company that is the market leader with software that is used a lot in production.
People who don't want to upgrade can stay with cs6 or use another software.
People who don't need the latest lightwave can stay in whatever version they want. I can't ever go back to lw 10, 9.
Those are free choices people make and you have it.

That's right. We all have our choices to make.

Would you make the same choice KNOWING that if Adobe and AD succeed at forcing people into a rental-only system that it would be the downfall of owning software? If you knew that NOT supporting Adobe and AD by not "buying" their software you could change the outcome so that rental-only software become a CHOICE instead of mandatory, would you NOT buy into rental-only?

As I see it, there are four types of people.

1. Those who have no choice to use Adobe CC since they work with others who use CC.
2. Those who won't rent their software.
3. Those who have no idea what the ramifications of supporting Adobe will do.
4. Those who don't care at all.

tyrot
10-29-2014, 11:14 AM
mega it is THEIR product. It is like arguing against gravity. Ok i have a software - right ? right .. I can fix lotta problems right? right. It is SOLELY up to me- sell it or rent it?

Leasing, renting , selling .. are the main options for the products . Why softwares should be different ? Is it a product? well yes... So they do whatever they want - as long as they manage the risks..

I dont know Autodesk stuff - but Adobe CC is the steal of this decade.... and im writing again - not just ONE copy - 3 copies. Cloud back ups..

If i cannot manage to pay 50 bucks for Adobe CC - i should go and work in MC Donalds.. :)

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 11:32 AM
mega it is THEIR product. It is like arguing against gravity. Ok i have a software - right ? right .. I can fix lotta problems right? right. It is SOLELY up to me- sell it or rent it?

Leasing, renting , selling .. are the main options for the products . Why softwares should be different ? Is it a product? well yes... So they do whatever they want - as long as they manage the risks..

I dont know Autodesk stuff - but Adobe CC is the steal of this decade.... and im writing again - not just ONE copy - 3 copies. Cloud back ups..

If i cannot manage to pay 50 bucks for Adobe CC - i should go and work in MC Donalds.. :)

Well... let's just say that I'm glad that the people who fought for workers rights and workplace safety and everything else that was wrong and made right.... were not people such as yourself. ANYONE who simply acquiesces and rolls over without thinking is... uninformed. As I said above, there are four kinds of people in this discussion.

And by the way, arguing against gravity is a very silly analogy and very inaccurate as well. You can't change gravity by your actions (here on earth), but you CAN change how a company sells their product and deals with its customers. And if you don't comprehend that FACT, then perhaps you need to go and review Economics 101.

CaptainMarlowe
10-29-2014, 12:16 PM
Guys, would it be possible to stay on track and not starting yet another flame war about subscription only or not ? I would like to read here more about pros and cons of various NLE here.

tyrot
10-29-2014, 12:19 PM
but - Hey it is not that silly.. can THEY do it? YES - Can you STOP them? NO - Can they do it and lets say bankrupt ? YES - -- but YOU cannot stop them doing it .. .. if they lose money ...well they may stop it. BUT i like what they giving for 50 bucks. So i support them..

and stop judging my economics :)

all i am saying - I SUPPORT them - many users are also supporting them - so we will make sure that THEY wont stop their rentals.. it is an amazing value...

erikals
10-29-2014, 12:32 PM
Guys, would it be possible to stay on track and not starting yet another flame war about subscription only or not ? I would like to read here more about pros and cons of various NLE here.

if that was to happen, one side would have to stop first...

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 12:40 PM
if that was to happen, one side would have to stop first...

Okay.

Done here. :)

But... oh never mind. :D

tyrot
10-29-2014, 02:35 PM
:) ok - back to premiere pro :) this latest versions are very good :) VERY good. I've been using it since version 4.2 ( around 96) ..

CaptainMarlowe
10-30-2014, 12:02 AM
This is a good topic for me, because if as a hobbyist I'm quite happy with the Motion/FCP combo, and don't plan to change (which would mean learn new softwares), then I'm facing a dilemma at work.
I am in charge of a training center, and since we can train 3 groups simultaneously, I have three video teams (1 cameraman, 1 video editor, 1 broadcaster per team) for helping the after action reviews. We have two sites, one is equipped with online Mac Pros (the former generation, but still very powerful), the other one (sadly enough) being our main site, being offline for technical and security reasons, but also with both hardware and software starting to get slowly obsolete. Sure, we don't need to keep up to date, but at some point it becomes difficult to work with aging stuff. Typically, we renew our licences every 6-7 years, so the subscription program from adobe, and soon AD, is a problem for us. Currently we are still with CS 5.5, but it's too old and slow now. Besides, being offline is a problem for upgrading on a regular basis.
2/3 of my editors are convinced we should buy high-end iMacs with Final Cut Pro and Motion, and that it would be enough for the next 5 years - so it would cover the price of the iMacs with the FCP licensing which is a bargain. The third one was very reluctant to FCP X before (because he had worked under FCP 7 and found it too heavy) but is now changing his mind after seing what I was able to do on my MBA with it.
So we may follow the Apple road. This said, I have to convince the guys with the money before, and it's a bit difficult. In the meantime, I was thinking about Da Vinci resolve free for editing our pedagogical vids. As a free alternative, I can't see anything better than that, but I'm open to any suggestion.

As for broadcasting, it's a bit more difficult, since we buy through a third-party house. All my broadcasters want to shift to Tricasters, changing all the hardware at once with something new and functional, but the supporting house would prefer to replace all the obsolete pieces of hardware one by one (unofficially because the don't resell Newtek hardware). In the short term, it looks cheaper, but in the end, it's very expensive and above all, inefficient. So I'm waiting for the next general failure to push the Trickster option once again ;)

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 12:40 AM
My first thought would be to seriously try out the free version of Resolve before anything. Then if THAT works out, at least you know you've got that out of the way. As I said before, I'll be trying out Resolve before I decide to upgrade my Vegas Pro. Now that they also have Fusion (which we have), it may be a good move on our part.

Good Luck!

CaptainMarlowe
10-30-2014, 01:01 AM
Except that DV R is relying on CUDA, so I have to check the editing computers first. If they are compatible, it is surely a great alternative, despite a limited choice of transitions and effects. The great thing about motion and FCP X is that you can sign generic transitions and effects in Motion, and they are added automatically in your library in FCP X. It's very good.

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 03:16 PM
I had no idea about that relying on CUDA. I don't have any really good videocards - haven't updated machines in in a few years, with the exception of building three i5's a couple of years ago. I'd probably need to upgrade some hardware then. Now all I have to do is make some money. ;)

m.d.
10-30-2014, 04:20 PM
Resolve doesn't rely on CUDA....it is fully openCL so ATI or Nvidia will work.

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 04:29 PM
Resolve doesn't rely on CUDA....it is fully openCL so ATI or Nvidia will work.

Thanks for that. I've got nVidia so there should be no problems. I'll try the free version first anyway.

Chrizto
10-30-2014, 06:28 PM
Well, before you go and pay for anything I'd seriously give DaVinci Resolve Lite a chance.
Take a look at the features: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/no/products/davinciresolve/compare

If you don't need Stereoscopic, this is a PRO application. Sure, Vegas is also good, but this is a professional application on par with Final Cut and Premiere Pro, and it's free.

CaptainMarlowe
10-30-2014, 10:45 PM
OK. Thanks for the opencl clarification. I was thinking it was cuda because at launch, it required me to update my cuda drivers.

m.d.
10-30-2014, 11:57 PM
OK. Thanks for the opencl clarification. I was thinking it was cuda because at launch, it required me to update my cuda drivers.

i think it may have initially been straight CUDA....

But they new the new macPro was ATI only and they would loose a lot of the mac faithful by not including them :) I remember some posts to that regard that they were feverishly working on openCL support in time for then new mac pro's


I think this day and age, you are much better running an Nvidia device....you will always have support whether CUDA or OpenCL (turbulence and octane being prime examples)

CaptainMarlowe
10-31-2014, 12:05 AM
Well, before you go and pay for anything I'd seriously give DaVinci Resolve Lite a chance.
Take a look at the features: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/no/products/davinciresolve/compare

If you don't need Stereoscopic, this is a PRO application. Sure, Vegas is also good, but this is a professional application on par with Final Cut and Premiere Pro, and it's free.

For sure, it's a bargain, you have a very capable video editor and a incredibly powerful color correction tool for free.
This said, after trying it a bit (but maybe I'm not familiar enough yet), I wouldn't go that far as considering that for editing purposes it's on par with FCP X (I won't speak about PP which I don't know).
Da Vinci Resolve lacks a lot of small yet very useful features that I have in FCP X. I talked before about transitions, but you can also think about generators and effects. Also, Media and project management is more advanced, IMHO, in FCP X. There are also a better reading of some codecs. For instance, previews from LW11 are read natively by FCP X, but not by DVR on my computer.
Plus, FCP X will analyse every imported media, which is very useful for image stabilization, audio correction or keyboarding for better management. I would mention too that there is in FCP X a storyboarding option which has become for me a very handy tool, which isn't in DVR and would be for me a step back if I had to forget about it.
You may call these options bells and whistles, but they have improved greatly my workflow, and I haven't seen them in DVR - but again, maybe because of a lack of knowledge. OTOH, DVR is fantastic at what it's been designed for : color correction. Color correction options in FCP X are quite easy and cool, but still way behind what DVR has in this field.
Now, OFC, FCP X+Motion is 300€, and DVR is free. That is something.

CaptainMarlowe
10-31-2014, 12:08 AM
i think it may have initially been straight CUDA....

But they new the new macPro was ATI only and they would loose a lot of the mac faithful by not including them :) I remember some posts to that regard that they were feverishly working on openCL support in time for then new mac pro's


I think this day and age, you are much better running an Nvidia device....you will always have support whether CUDA or OpenCL (turbulence and octane being prime examples)


OK, I get it, I haven't figured this out (heck, I hadn't even asked myself the question, having a CUDA card). This said, as I'm strongly considering a mac pro (but waiting for rev. B and some cash to flow in), knowing that it's openCL enabled is always a very good news !

Chrizto
10-31-2014, 04:36 AM
About the CUDA / OpenCL questions, it seems as if some advanced features of the non-free versions still depends on CUDA for maximum GPU processing efficiency.
If you take a look at the "Compare" section of the Black Magic Design homepage you'll see things like:

... Real time playback and grading with spatial noise reduction using CUDA GPUs.
... High quality temporal noise reduction using CUDA GPUs.

But for the majority of functionality the application supports both CUDA and OpenCL.
(for decoding etc. it can use any GPU it seems)

erikals
10-31-2014, 04:38 AM
I'd be wary of using Hitfilm as a primary video editor as that isn't what it was designed for. You'll find simple, basic things like re-timing, transitions, audio adjustment, to be less than convenient... at least that was my experience with Hitfilm 2 Express. Use Hitfilm for what it focuses in; visual effects.

sort of,
re-timing is as "simple" as in Vegas, so not all that great...
one alternative is audio adjustment like in after effects, but you need to click "Make Composite" first
the other one is fade, in the editor, but can't get this one to work in HitFilm Express.
transitions / video transitions, these should be easy in HitFilm, but again, i found that HitFilm Express had removed this option for some reason.
(cross dissolve for example is removed in HitFilm Express, either that, or it's bugged)

you can also fade audio/video straight in the editor, which works alright...
http://hitfilm.com/reference/hitfilm-2-express/index.html?adjusting_volume_and_opacity.htm
but i hope they add a Bezier soon...

animating picture positions is ok in HitFilm, very much like After Effects, while clumsy in Vegas

HitFilm is not quite "there" yet, but hopefully it can compete with After Effects in not too long,
maybe even work as a video editor too...

though for a video editor, nothing seems to beat DaVinci Resolve, which is free (!) :]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtNt8qL6P5g

Nicolas Jordan
10-31-2014, 12:31 PM
Well, before you go and pay for anything I'd seriously give DaVinci Resolve Lite a chance.
Take a look at the features: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/no/products/davinciresolve/compare

If you don't need Stereoscopic, this is a PRO application. Sure, Vegas is also good, but this is a professional application on par with Final Cut and Premiere Pro, and it's free.

I downloaded DaVinci Resolve Lite but I can't figure out how or if I can import an image sequence.

m.d.
10-31-2014, 01:14 PM
definitely not a question of 'IF'

lightscape
10-31-2014, 10:18 PM
sort of,
re-timing is as "simple" as in Vegas, so not all that great...
one alternative is audio adjustment like in after effects, but you need to click "Make Composite" first
the other one is fade, in the editor, but can't get this one to work in HitFilm Express.
transitions / video transitions, these should be easy in HitFilm, but again, i found that HitFilm Express had removed this option for some reason.
(cross dissolve for example is removed in HitFilm Express, either that, or it's bugged)

you can also fade audio/video straight in the editor, which works alright...
http://hitfilm.com/reference/hitfilm-2-express/index.html?adjusting_volume_and_opacity.htm
but i hope they add a Bezier soon...

animating picture positions is ok in HitFilm, very much like After Effects, while clumsy in Vegas

HitFilm is not quite "there" yet, but hopefully it can compete with After Effects in not too long,
maybe even work as a video editor too...

though for a video editor, nothing seems to beat DaVinci Resolve, which is free (!) :]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtNt8qL6P5g

I checked out hitfilm. It looks like it has something like Aftereffects built in besides the nle editor. So its two apps in one at a very good price. I'm tempted to pre order.

erikals
11-01-2014, 01:28 AM
yep, looks like i'll be going HitFilm3 myself, and i assume the launch of future HitFilm4 should make things more smooth.

best news in HF3

Curves / New Effects / New Tracking
OpenFX means we'll see RSMB, NeatVideo, Topaz plugins soon...
16-bit OpenEXR, good, but they need to add multi-layered EXR, they stated they would do this in the future


imo, for a generalist, HitFilm + Resolve seems to be the best bet.

do note, HitFilm needs a fast GPU, much ram, and an SSD is convenient

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 02:34 AM
imo, for a generalist, HitFilm + Resolve seems to be the best bet.




On a PC, it may be the case, I don't know.
I'll give another go at Hitfilm 3 if they release a demo version, but for now, on Mac, I would recommend Motion+FCP X rather than Hitfilm for a roughly equivalent price tag.

Edit : this said, the HF3 plugins for FCP/Motion is delivered with HF3, for 299$ instead of 499$. Most of what they do can be done in Motion, but they can prove to be a time saver. At 499$, they were too expensive, but at 299$ it can be interesting.

tyrot
11-01-2014, 05:23 AM
if you wanna stay with editing+ vfx ... and pay less i totally agree with erikals. although i support cc route because of many other apps and proven workflow....i guess resolve deserves a close look. hitfilm 3 .. well lets see.
but still if you wanna get a total package ... try 30 days adobe cc..

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 06:30 AM
Not for me. Whatever the value added, I'm opposed to the subscription idea. So my choice goes to softwares that are free or offering normal licensing.

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 06:57 AM
Besides, after checking on adobe website, renting AE+PP would cost me at best (annual subscription) 580€, or renting all the suite would be 780€ (but I really don't need anything else than en editor and a composting package) each year. Motion+FCP cost me only 315€ for perpetual licences more than two years ago, and the development cycle of FCP X 10.1 is at its beginning. So even on a financial point of view, and as long as FCP+Motion fulfills my needs, the CC option is not interesting at all.
Once again for me, I understand that other users would have another approach or needs.

Greenlaw
11-01-2014, 12:51 PM
OpenFX is pretty neat. I routinely use a couple of Re:Vision OFX plugins in Fusion. The plugins themselves are great but what I also like about them is that the license keys are tied to a generic USB ethernet dongle so I can move the plugins to any other computer and use them with other OpenFX compatible programs (like Vegas for example.) I don't use HitFilm yet (even though I've had a license for some time now,) but will definitely be trying it out for work in the coming months--glad to hear they're adding OFX support too. I wish I could use these plugins in AfterFX too but it doesn't sound like OFX support will happen there any time soon.

You really can't have too many tools in your toolbox--this has been especially true for me with the variety of work I've been doing this past year.

G.

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 01:08 PM
BTW Natron is OpenFX compatible also (and free).
I wish I had more time to dig into these softwares...

jeric_synergy
11-01-2014, 01:18 PM
JFC, in the time I've been reading this thread, two PAGES have been added. I hope it's about features, and not g.d. subscription models.

Greenlaw
11-01-2014, 01:48 PM
...I really don't need anything else than en editor and a composting package) each year....

Yeah, that's what I meant. CC is an excellent deal if you need to use several of their apps and you use them regularly (like I do.) If you need only one or two Adobe applications occasionally, it's not such a good value over the long run. As they say, to each, his own.

IMO, if you routinely use at least Premiere, and Photoshop and After Effects, it starts to become worthwhile. In my case, I don't use Premiere very much but I do use Illustrator, Dreamweaver, InDesign, Audition and a few smaller apps, in addition to PS and AE. And, as noted previously, I frequently work with clients and other artists who use the same suite, so overall it's been an ideal package deal for me.

All that said, I still prefer Fusion for compositing and Vegas for editing. :p

As for AD going subscription-only, I do feel quite differently there. I find some of AD's tools essential to my work--I use Motion Builder and occasionally Maya to address certain shortcomings in Lightwave--but it sounds like their subscription rates are just going to be too expensive for me to maintain because I don't use their tools regularly enough. I'm sure their thinking is that by going subscription-only, I'll want to use more of their tools more often, which is what happened for me and CC, but the difference is that Adobe's offerings cover a much wider range of daily usefulness. (For me anyway.) I just don't see that happening with me and the AD line of products. For now, I'll continue using my aging perpetual license of MB and Maya, but in the meantime, I'm looking for affordable modern alternatives to these two. (Current candidates are Ikinema Webanimate and maybe Blender.)

Hmm, that sounds familiar doesn't it? Different software but same situation. :)

I guess that's all I really have to say about that. Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

G.

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 02:01 PM
I do agree completely with your point of view. Of course, your case is different from mine, as I am an "enlightened hobbyist" as I like to say, not a professional, so I have to find the best value for the price tag, even if, at some point this mean compromise (less functionalities for a lower price). (As for subscription, I don't like it, but I could reconsider it if I hadn't the choice, but as I have alternatives that fulfill my needs, I don't even have to ask myself the question).

Megalodon2.0
11-01-2014, 02:06 PM
BTW Natron is OpenFX compatible also (and free).
I wish I had more time to dig into these softwares...

I agree. The plus side is... for many of us who don't want rental-only software, there is a wide selection of other useful software AND Open Source. Now if only most of that other software would run on Linux (and I learn more about Linux) things would be MUCH better. Still... gonna have to give Natron a whirl too. :thumbsup:

CaptainMarlowe
11-01-2014, 02:12 PM
Natron runs on Linux, so do Lightworks and Da Vince Resolve. Clarisse iFX also and AppleseedHQ... I wish Allegorithmic would adapt its substance suite for Linux... And of course Lightwave !! Then, I could even reconsider stopping using a Mac (despite FCP X and Motion) I've been using Linux a lot on y previous laptops; I especially like Linux Mint.

lightscape
11-01-2014, 08:16 PM
yep, looks like i'll be going HitFilm3 myself, and i assume the launch of future HitFilm4 should make things more smooth.

best news in HF3

Curves / New Effects / New Tracking
OpenFX means we'll see RSMB, NeatVideo, Topaz plugins soon...
16-bit OpenEXR, good, but they need to add multi-layered EXR, they stated they would do this in the future


One thing I thought was missing are alpha and luma mattes which is something I always use in ae. Its there in hf2. So I will definitely buy into this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETKqzaaAkZk&list=UUjuBJZ7REps-JP01lvfB6yg

motivalex
11-02-2014, 04:37 AM
Natron runs on Linux, so do Lightworks and Da Vince Resolve. Clarisse iFX also and AppleseedHQ... I wish Allegorithmic would adapt its substance suite for Linux... And of course Lightwave !! Then, I could even reconsider stopping using a Mac (despite FCP X and Motion) I've been using Linux a lot on y previous laptops; I especially like Linux Mint.

I agree and with Linux Mint being one of the best distributions. I hope LW12 is successful as a major update and with that a much more positive industry reputation, so they can have the resources and incentive to develop a Linux based version.

We use Adobe CC and have found it good value with decent frequent updates. I make use of most of the applications so for me it works out financially sound.

Lightworks and the new Da Vince Resolve are good alternative options. For motion graphics After Effects is still king, though I'm interested in seeing where Black Magic take Fusion which does have good mo-graph capabilties.

inkpen3d
11-02-2014, 10:05 AM
I downloaded DaVinci Resolve Lite but I can't figure out how or if I can import an image sequence.

This had me foxed the first time I tried out DaVinci Resolve Lite a couple of days ago!

What you appear to need to do is to first add the drive where your image sequence files are held using the DaVinci Resolve=>Preferences=>Media Storage drop-down menu and resulting pop-up panel. Click on the "+" to add the drive and then restart Resolve for the changes to take effect (tedious, you'd think there would be a better way to do this!).

When you've restarted Resolve the drive should be listed in the library panel of the Media workspace and, when you select that drive, it's contents listed in the adjacent panel along. You will then be able navigate to the folder containing your sequence of images. Assuming that the images are sequentially numbered, they should be listed in the panel as an image sequence (e.g. <filename>[1-100].png). Select that entry and right-click and then select the menu option "Add into Media Pool".

If you then go to the Edit workspace and then click on the Media Pool tab you should see the image sequence listed. Select it and right-click and from the pop-up menu select "Create Timeline Using Selected Clips". Your image sequence will then appear in a new video track on the timeline.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Peter

inkpen3d
11-02-2014, 11:17 AM
Might just have found a possible [serious] limitation with DaVinci Resolve 11 Lite: It appears, on the face of it, that you can't use a single still image as a background over multiple frames (i.e. upon which to composit foreground frames/clip with alpha). The still image is always limited to a length of 1 frame and can't be stretched out to match the length of the foreground clip. In Sony Vegas Pro, for example, you just select the RHS of the given still image in your background track and drag it out and snap it to the length of the overlaying clip.

Anyone found a workaround for this?

Cheers,
Peter

Areyos Alektor
11-02-2014, 07:07 PM
"DaVinci Resolve" uses "CUDA" natively. "OpenCL" has been added with the V10 because we which use "AMD" cards are still many (and have claimed :D).

"Resolve" is the ideal companion to video cameras from "Blackmagic Design". This is probably the most successful software for Color Grading. But in terms of video editing my favorite it's "Sony Vegas Pro". Especially for the Stereography : it's comprehensive, simple and effective.

For compositing there is "MambaFX" :
http://www.sgo.es/mambafx/

To me it adds what is missing between "LightWave" and "Vegas Pro". Especially since they have made available the V2 (free for the holders of a licence, otherwise the price remained at € 239).

For 3D tracking I uses "PFHoe Pro" and "PFMatchit" (both from "The Pixel Farm").

I use "Creative Cloud" from "Adobe". Without wanting to get too much in the debate I just think that "Photoshop" remains the graphics editor the most versatile and "After Effects" ideal tool for Motion Graphics. I love "Lightroom" for photo. As said by Greenlaw we access to all their creative tools and it's convenient. But if we focus on the video it's not really the best choice.

Nicolas Jordan
11-02-2014, 07:39 PM
I completely forgot about Blender having some basic video editing functionality and was reminded when I opened it up recently. I'm playing around with it right now to see what it's limitations are.

Dexter2999
11-02-2014, 11:22 PM
For editing (not compositing), I also just remembered RedCine X is available, I think for free. Never really used it so I can't attest to the usability.
http://www.red.com/products/redcine-x

erikals
11-02-2014, 11:56 PM
maybe, used to have high hardware requirements from what i read,
now recently GPU acceleration got possible.
http://nofilmschool.com/2013/08/3rd-party-gpu-acceleration-coming-redcine-x-pro
not sure about the app itself...

Danner
11-03-2014, 02:20 AM
Red Cine X is for Red One camera footage only, it cannot load any other kind of files.

inkpen3d
11-03-2014, 03:22 AM
Might just have found a possible [serious] limitation with DaVinci Resolve 11 Lite: It appears, on the face of it, that you can't use a single still image as a background over multiple frames (i.e. upon which to composit foreground frames/clip with alpha). The still image is always limited to a length of 1 frame and can't be stretched out to match the length of the foreground clip. In Sony Vegas Pro, for example, you just select the RHS of the given still image in your background track and drag it out and snap it to the length of the overlaying clip.

Anyone found a workaround for this?

Cheers,
Peter

At the risk of this turning into a DaVinci Resolve Q&A thread: FYI, I've cracked the problem I was having using stills as BG images for compositing. I was starting off in the editor workspace using the still image I wanted to use as the BG to create a new timeline, what I should have done at this stage was untick the "Use Selected MarkIn/Out" option in the pop-up panel - this subsequently allows you to drag out the duration of the image in the timeline to match the overlay clip.

Hope that helps someone.

Cheers,
Peter

cagey5
11-03-2014, 09:21 AM
Unfortunately DaVinci Resolve Lite (The free version) doesn't run on Linux. I'll stick with Lightworks for now.

Rayek
11-06-2014, 09:08 AM
I completely forgot about Blender having some basic video editing functionality and was reminded when I opened it up recently. I'm playing around with it right now to see what it's limitations are.

True - while the built-in NLE is rather spartan (but functional), Blender does have a pretty good compositor, and delivers some rather good visual effects - just look at what they did with it in Tears of Steel.

There's full nodal compositing, multi-layered EXR, easy keying (simple key node with spill controls, and more), vector masks, 2d/3d camera and object tracking, and a range of effects. Combine that with the 3d side of Blender (plus smoke and fluids!), plus the very good non-destructive text tools (even linked text boxes for columnar text are supported), and it is rather amazing what the user gets for... free.

There are some good tutorials that cover Blender's compositing and vfx sides:

https://cloud.blender.org/news/track-match-blend-2-now-available
http://cgcookie.com/blender/cgc-courses/transformer-vfx/
http://cgcookie.com/blender/category/tutorials/compositing/

I've combined Blender with DaVinci to replace 99% of what I did before in Premiere and Afx. And Photoline completely replaced Photoshop for me (and supports multi-layered EXR files out of the box, unlike Photoshop).

lightscape
11-06-2014, 08:57 PM
The more I use hitfilm, the more I think Adobe should be copying the way it has an editing mode like premiere with a nested comp shot mode like aftereffects. I can't wait to see this software grow.

erikals
11-11-2014, 01:01 AM
Fusion > Free http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/11/blackmagic-design-releases-fusion-7-for-free/

Rayek
11-11-2014, 01:13 AM
Fusion > Free http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/11/blackmagic-design-releases-fusion-7-for-free/

Whot!!!! I sort-of expected a move like this on BM's part, seeing their track record with Resolve, but this is brilliant - Downloading now!

With this and Resolve/Blender, I really do not see any point in using anything else at this point.

inkpen3d
11-11-2014, 01:19 AM
Fusion > Free http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/11/blackmagic-design-releases-fusion-7-for-free/

Grrrr! And I just renewed my annual subscription! No hint from the sales team that this was about to happen so $495 down the proverbial. :(

Megalodon2.0
11-11-2014, 02:36 AM
Grrrr! And I just renewed my annual subscription! No hint from the sales team that this was about to happen so $495 down the proverbial. :(

I believe that you get the $995 Studio version free - check with Black Magic.

raymondtrace
11-11-2014, 06:49 AM
The early mention of Lightworks in this discussion hinted that it was not quite capable because it was free. Lightworks has a solid professional history. The only significant limitation of the free version is 720p/h.264 output. If you want more resolution and codecs, you pay. Otherwise, a program that runs on Win/Lin/Mac is a real gem. I've previously used FCP/Premiere/Avid/kdenlive but the alternate Lightworks interface only took an hour or two to learn.

Lightwolf
11-11-2014, 07:05 AM
I believe that you get the $995 Studio version free - check with Black Magic.

You do, straight from the horse's mouth*:
--- snip ---
Hi Michael

It is nice to here from you.

With the new release of Fusion from Blackmagic Design, any existing users who have a current and active subscription for Fusion, will be eligible to receive an upgrade to the new version.

We are currently collecting the details of active subscribers, and we will be in touch shortly regarding how to receive the upgrade.
--- snip ---

Cheers,
Mike

*yes, including the spelling. ;)

m.d.
11-11-2014, 09:09 AM
my subscription expired 2 weeks ago...

JamesCurtis
11-14-2014, 08:55 PM
my subscription expired 2 weeks ago...

You may want to follow up and contact them anyway.

m.d.
11-14-2014, 09:00 PM
i did...very politely

it is under consideration while they figure out what to do with fusion studio...not actually available yet

Greenlaw
11-14-2014, 10:57 PM
We started using Fusion back with 3 or 4. We were subscribers for a few years but I let our two Fusion subscriptions lapse over a year ago, and decided to stay with 6.4 until we saw some significant development going on with Fusion again.

Naturally, the recent news with Black Magic renewed our interest. This morning I emailed Blackmagic to see if there was an upgrade path to 7 for 'non-active' users. (That's an odd phrase considering we never actually stopped using Fusion--as a freelancer, I use it nearly every day for work.) Still waiting to hear from them. I hope they have an upgrade option for us because we'd really like to continue our relationship with the product. :)

G.

inkpen3d
11-15-2014, 04:41 AM
I believe that you get the $995 Studio version free - check with Black Magic.

I've had some email exchanges with Joanne Dicaire who used to be in sales and marketing at Eyeon (she's moving on to another role now that Fusion has been subsumed by BlackMagic) and she stated that current subscribers are indeed eligible for a free upgrade to Fusion 7 Studio and that this will include Dimension and Generation. FYI, Dimension provides "advanced camera matching, stereo alignment, convergence, spatialization tools, plus advanced optical flow algorithms to generate motion vectors so you can fix shots, retime, steady and morph images", whilst Generation provides a "collaboration tool that helps you manage and track versions of every shot in your studio". All of which will be nice to have - that is, once BlackMagic have got themselves sorted out and provided an upgrade route for subscribers.

Here's a link to the general information page: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion
And this page provides a comparison between the free and the paid versions of the application: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion/compare

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Peter

LW_Will
11-21-2014, 06:49 PM
Wow, I still have my old fusion that was sold with Lightwave... I want to say, LW9? Can't remember.

Wonder if that license could be activated? :-)

Oedo 808
11-21-2014, 08:52 PM
I like Hitfilm, I just don't have much confidence that they actually think that people wanting 32bit multi-channel EXR handling and linear color workflow is of any importance. In an old thread they kept talking like this was some super high-end workflow. True that they have 16bit at least in the new Hitfilm, but only for colour and alpha if I read rightly and I kind of get the feeling it was more of a "very well, if we must" than a first step with more to come. I understand that these things can take time, I'm just not sure it's something they are concerned with adding for quite some time regardless.

inkpen3d
11-22-2014, 08:27 AM
Wow, I still have my old fusion that was sold with Lightwave... I want to say, LW9? Can't remember.

Wonder if that license could be activated? :-)

A couple of years ago I upgraded my old Fusion 4 license ( which, like you I got thrown in with LW) to the new (at the time) Fusion 6 for just $590, which included the cost of the (required) hardware dongle and its shipment (the basic cost of the upgrade was $495). If you contact support (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/family/fusion) at Blackmagic Design they might be able to provide you with a similar offer - worth a shot if you can get Fusion 7 with Dimension and Generation for a similar price!

Regards,
Peter

Danner
11-22-2014, 09:04 AM
What I still have from that lightwave + DF3 bundle are two huge manuals, most of what they contain applies to the now free Fusion 7, I just wish I could find them...

Greenlaw
11-22-2014, 12:04 PM
A lot more capability has been added over the years but, yeah, the general workflow hasn't changed for as long as I've been using it. (Since version 3 I think.)

For me, a significant feature is how Fusion handles EXR files. Assuming you embedded the auxiliary channels with proper 'Fusion friendly' names, the channels are immediately recognized. For example, need motion blur? If you rendered with embedded motion vectors, just add a Vector Blur node. Fusion automatically reads the vector channel and adds proper motion blur to your Lightwave renders.

G.

jeric_synergy
11-22-2014, 12:58 PM
For me, a significant feature is how Fusion handles EXR files. Assuming you embedded the auxiliary channels with proper 'Fusion friendly' names, the channels are immediately recognized. For example, need motion blur? If you rendered with embedded motion vectors, just add a Vector Blur node. Fusion automatically reads the vector channel and adds proper motion blur to your Lightwave renders.

G.
I'd like that: my hobby level experiments w/LW+AE+EXRTrader have been... inadequate. Probably due to operator incompetence, but still.

Megalodon2.0
11-22-2014, 03:16 PM
A couple of years ago I upgraded my old Fusion 4 license ( which, like you I got thrown in with LW) to the new (at the time) Fusion 6 for just $590, which included the cost of the (required) hardware dongle and its shipment (the basic cost of the upgrade was $495). If you contact support (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/family/fusion) at Blackmagic Design they might be able to provide you with a similar offer - worth a shot if you can get Fusion 7 with Dimension and Generation for a similar price!

I doubt BM will do anything here. They won't - at least not yet - allow discounts (AFAIK) to upgrade to the pro version for anyone with a full license of Fusion and not on maintenance. A DF4 license mean essentially nothing to them and the free version would be what they would suggest. I've got Fusion 6 - but not on maintenance - and I will have to pay $995 to get the pro version. So no discount even for me who paid lots more over the years.

inkpen3d
11-22-2014, 04:01 PM
I doubt BM will do anything here. They won't - at least not yet - allow discounts (AFAIK) to upgrade to the pro version for anyone with a full license of Fusion and not on maintenance. A DF4 license mean essentially nothing to them and the free version would be what they would suggest. I've got Fusion 6 - but not on maintenance - and I will have to pay $995 to get the pro version. So no discount even for me who paid lots more over the years.

Yes, but at the time I upgraded to F6 I was not paying a yearly a maintenance fee and yet Eyeon still let me upgrade for $495 (+ the fee for the dongle/delivery). And, being so impressed by the quality of the product, I subsequently have been paying a yearly maintenance fee in order to get maintenance upgrades and new releases, so Eyeon's "loss leader" in letting me have the cheap upgrade paid off in the long term as far as Eyeon were concerned.

So, if BM follow the same reasoning as Eyeon did, they may indeed allow someone to upgrade from Fusion 3/4 to Fusion 7 for ~$495 knowing that there's a significant chance that they'll be able to reap a yearly maintenance fees of $495 from that customer. If it turns out that the customer doesn't opt for paying a yearly maintenance fee then BM have only lost out to the tune of $500.

It's well worth a quick email or phone call to BM support - nothing ventured, nothing gained!

Megalodon2.0
11-22-2014, 04:33 PM
Yes, but at the time I upgraded to F6 I was not paying a yearly a maintenance fee and yet Eyeon still let me upgrade for $495 (+ the fee for the dongle/delivery). And, being so impressed by the quality of the product, I subsequently have been paying a yearly maintenance fee in order to get maintenance upgrades and new releases, so Eyeon's "loss leader" in letting me have the cheap upgrade paid off in the long term as far as Eyeon were concerned.

So, if BM follow the same reasoning as Eyeon did, they may indeed allow someone to upgrade from Fusion 3/4 to Fusion 7 for ~$495 knowing that there's a significant chance that they'll be able to reap a yearly maintenance fees of $495 from that customer. If it turns out that the customer doesn't opt for paying a yearly maintenance fee then BM have only lost out to the tune of $500.

It's well worth a quick email or phone call to BM support - nothing ventured, nothing gained!

I would tend to agree. But if they aren't going to give a discount to people like myself who have the full version of Fusion 6, why would they give any discounts to someone on the stripped down version of DF4+ that they got free with LW? And will there be a maintenance fee? I hadn't seen anything about that, but then I haven't delved too deeply into it yet.

Danner
11-24-2014, 02:01 AM
..... Assuming you embedded the auxiliary channels with proper 'Fusion friendly' names, the channels are immediately recognized. For example, need motion blur? If you rendered with embedded motion vectors, just add a Vector Blur node. Fusion automatically reads the vector channel and adds proper motion blur to your Lightwave renders.

G.

Any good reference on what the "fusion friendly" names are? or where to look for a mini tut on this? I could google it, and experiment as usual, but figured you might have it handy. =)

Greenlaw
11-24-2014, 02:22 AM
Any good reference on what the "fusion friendly" names are? or where to look for a mini tut on this? I could google it, and experiment as usual, but figured you might have it handy. =)
I think it's in the Fusion manual, probably under auxiliary channels or EXR or something like that. It's probably in the exrTrader manual too. I'll see if I can track down the full list.

G.

Lightwolf
11-24-2014, 03:26 AM
Any good reference on what the "fusion friendly" names are? or where to look for a mini tut on this? I could google it, and experiment as usual, but figured you might have it handy. =)
The simplest way is to look at the EXR saver in Fusion, since it uses the expected channel names as a default.

I'll include a preset with the supported channels with the next release of exrTrader as well.

Cheers,
Mike

Greenlaw
11-24-2014, 03:35 AM
Oh, duh. Yeah, that works too. :)

Thanks Mike. It's really late here so the obvious isn't so obvious to me at the moment.

G.

Lightwolf
11-24-2014, 03:47 AM
Oh, duh. Yeah, that works too. :)

Thanks Mike. It's really late here so the obvious isn't so obvious to me at the moment.

G.
Hehe, I had an unfair advantage: Early morning plus caffeine - even though I suspect it's mainly due to the later. ;)

Cheers,,
Mike

octopus2000
01-30-2015, 04:56 PM
videopad looks pretty good, it's easy to learn.