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View Full Version : Kinect, nevron, ipisoft the future



lightscape
10-23-2014, 11:52 AM
With the kinect one dead what is the future development for kinect based motion capture?

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/is-microsoft-abandoning-kinect-95321067124.html

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/dumping-kinect-will-give-us-better-xbox-one-games-but-is-it-too-little-too-late--1252300

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/games/Xbox_One/Kinect/Microsoft/Kinect/the-end-of-kinect-and-the-future-of-the-xbox-one/14982

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/13/5714362/without-kinect-xbox-is-just-a-console

Not a gamer but the thought of playing games(slashing sword, pointing at things) using kinects as input devices the novelty would are off sooner or later. Always thought it was a fad for games and software.

Alternatives to kinect? How does it affect development of nevron, ipisoft?

JCG
10-23-2014, 03:30 PM
On a more positive note, Microsoft just launched an adapter to make the XB1's kinect work on PCs: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsofts-new-50-adapter-makes-xbox-ones-kinect-w/1100-6423115/

lightscape
10-23-2014, 07:36 PM
50 bucks for an adapter?!
With the kinect slowly being phased out its probably not worth throwing more money in it.

erikals
10-23-2014, 08:03 PM
the technology the Kinect is using will still be available by other brands, so it's unlikely a problem.

but now there is Perception Neuron

it will be interesting to see Perception Neuron vs iPi Kinect, i have a strong feeling Perception Neuron is the way to go

it's just looks to be >
more accurate
more mobile
supports complex finger tracking
head tracking
additional objects like guns/knifes/bats/cups
supports multiple characters
supports animals > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnOMnfVD6V4#t=11m05s

bought it on KickStarter earlier on >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?143057-MoCap-Perception-Neuron



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRenpzYTndg

lightscape
10-23-2014, 08:58 PM
Wasn't the tech bought by Apple?

Greenlaw
10-23-2014, 11:26 PM
I don't think Kinect 1 or 2 for Windows is 'dead'. Microsoft's plans for the tech extends way beyond the XBox. I believe they have plans for the tech in other industries besides gaming (medical, security, biotech, aerospace, etc.) As for 3D software that use it, there are plenty out there.

iPi Mocap Studio currently supports three Kinect for Windows devices simultaneously. Triple sensors works great! I've used it for fx work on three features this past year, not to mention our own little cartoon shorts. Version 3.0 is due out at the end of this month or early November and will support Kinect 2 for Windows. (Although support for multiple Kinect 2 devices will probably come in a later update, after they add multiple computer capture.) I think by the time the original Kinect for Windows were to disappear from the shelves, Kinect 2 for Windows will be in full use by the software.

Kinect is also used for face capture (Faceshift, Brekel). And of course it was a big selling point for LW3DG's own Nevronmotion. For 3D modeling and texturing, there are a handful of programs out there that use Kinect for scanning. (I've used ReConstructMe (http://reconstructme.net/)--it's pretty neat for knocking out rough models that can be cleaned up and enhanced in 3D Coat or ZBrush.) Some of these programs are already supporting Kinect 2 for Windows, and I'm sure others will follow. I know the iPi guys are mainly waiting for further development in the SDK, which may be the case with LW3DG and Nevronmotion, so it's just a matter of time.

The Perception is a completely different mocap technology altogether, and I don't believe Apple has purchased it. What you're probably thinking of is the Carmine 1.08 (wide) and 1.09 (near mode) sensors by Primesense, the company that created the original Kinect for Microsoft. When Apple pulled the devices off the market, it was a huge disappointment. Not sure what Apple has in mind--it's been over a year and there is still no new product to replace the Carmine series.

A variation of the Kinect is the Xtion by Asus. This is based on the original Kinect tech by Primesense. It's still available but it's not as advanced as Primesense's Carmine series. It's arguably 'better' than the original Kinect for Windows but Kinect for Windows still has better drivers which are still being developed and supported by Microsoft.

Unlike the original Kinect for Windows, Kinect 2 for Windows was completely developed in-house by Microsoft. They've put a ton of development into it and I don't think they're planning on tossing it away any time soon. :)

G.

lightscape
10-23-2014, 11:41 PM
Yep I meant primesense. Didn't they own most of the patents used for kinect and now primesense is owned by apple.
Kinect from ms is now being abandoned for games. Who knows until when ms will sell kinect devices.
Kinect used in 3d applications is not enough demand for ms to continue to support it.
Btw Google is also getting its own depth technology through Project Tango which should be more practical for 3d applications.

Greenlaw
10-24-2014, 12:16 AM
I don't know...maybe.

All I can say is that Kinect for Windows is mature technology and it's available right now. I don't think there's anything else currently on the market that's as good, as easy to set up and operate, and as affordable, that I can apply in my daily work (visual fx and animation production.)

If something better comes along in a few years, I might possibly 'trade up' but my current client base can't wait that long. :)

G.

jwiede
10-24-2014, 07:17 PM
50 bucks for an adapter?!
With the kinect slowly being phased out its probably not worth throwing more money in it.

Please cite an official announcement by Microsoft that Kinect is being phased out? As opposed to rumors and FUD.

jwiede
10-24-2014, 07:21 PM
Yep I meant primesense. Didn't they own most of the patents used for kinect

No, they did not "own most of the patents used for Kinect".


Kinect from ms is now being abandoned for games. Who knows until when ms will sell kinect devices.
Kinect used in 3d applications is not enough demand for ms to continue to support it.

Please cite where Microsoft has indicated Kinect is being abandoned for games?

Greenlaw
10-24-2014, 07:49 PM
The only thing I'm aware of is that a few weeks (months?) ago, Microsoft announced that they were unbundling the Kinect One (the new Kinect for XBox One) from the XBox One package and making it optional. I'm not aware of any news about it being phased out for console gaming.

The PC version, Kinect for Windows 2, has been in limited release as the SDK is still in development. This is the probably the reason you haven't see it adopted by many programs yet. It'll come to more programs eventually though.

The recently announced adapter allows you to use the XBox One version of the device with a PC. I'm not sure there are any advantages or disadvantages to using the XBox One version with a PC. There is no cost advantage since the cost of the adapter brings it up to the same cost as the PC version.

The original Kinect for Windows had a few feature advantages over the original Kinect for XBox but, AFAIK, the XBox One Kinect may be the same as the Kinect for Windows 2, just with a different connector. I guess if you plan to use it for both the XBox One and a PC, it might be worth getting the XBox One version with the adapter.

BTW, if you use iPi Mocap Studio, here's some more info about the upcoming release. Based on fragments of info released by the devs, the first release of version 3 will support only a single Kinect for Windows 2 (but it will still support up to three original Kinect for Windows.) They say support for multiple Kinect for Windows 2 will come later--apparently, they're waiting on a more complete SDK from MS. (There's a lot more cool stuff hinted at for this version, like support for using multiple computers for capture, fully customizeable proportions for the tracking actor, feet locking, improved editing tools, etc. )

With regards to iPi Mocap Studio, I'm told that there won't be a huge quality difference between the original Kinect for Windows and Kinect for Windows 2. This has more to do with how their software works, which operates quite differently from how other software use the Kinect for motion capture. Generally speaking, the higher definition will give you slightly smoother data for Mocap Studio but that doesn't necessarily translate to greater accuracy to the program. And because the new sensor's range is about the same as the old sensor's range, the capture area is not increased. What this probably means is that if you already have multiple original Kinect for Windows, there's probably little reason to upgrade your devices. However, if you don't have any Kinects, by all means, get the new ones (when the software is supporting it, I mean.) There will certainly be advantages to using the new devices if you intend to use the devices with other programs (i.e., for 3D scanning, face capture, etc.)

If you intend to use a Kinect with another low cost mocap systems, I would sit tight until they start supporting the Kinect for Windows 2. Many of these programs (like Nevronmotion) rely much more heavily on the Microsoft Kinect SDK, and they will probably benefit the most from the newer devices.

G.

P.S. All that said, I should repeat, if you need something right now, today, see my previous post on the subject.

Davewriter
10-24-2014, 07:51 PM
Maybe not direct from MS, but if the developers feel they've be left out in the cold... and there is no product coming requiring the unit... doesn't bode well for the Kinect.
Which is too bad. I like the dang little thing.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/15/devs-respond-to-microsofts-new-kinect-less-xbox-one

lightscape
10-24-2014, 08:14 PM
Please cite an official announcement by Microsoft that Kinect is being phased out? As opposed to rumors and FUD.


This kind of announcement would not happen officially obviously. Common sense.....

Read the links above. Poor support, poor roadmap plans for kinect one. Since its being removed from the bundle which ms previously said that kinect is the future and the xbox can't exist without the kinect. Doesn't seem so now.

Btw why does a microsoft device guy need to use lightwave, modo, c4d, and a whole bunch of other 3d appz? I'm really curious. :devil:

Greenlaw
10-25-2014, 12:16 AM
Btw why does a microsoft device guy need to use lightwave, modo, c4d, and a whole bunch of other 3d appz? I'm really curious. :devil:
It's like I said, gaming isn't the only thing on MS's mind for this tech. Primesense originally developed the Kinect technology for the security industry--applying the tech to gaming was just an obvious way to make a lot of money from their investment very quickly.

In my case, I have five Kinect sensors, three PS Moves and six PS Eye Cameras but guess how many compatible game consoles I own? None. I use these controller devices for work, not play.

And as mentioned above, there are other applications for this technology unrelated to the entertainment industries. Gaming isn't everything.

G.

jburford
10-25-2014, 02:58 PM
This kind of announcement would not happen officially obviously. Common sense.....

Read the links above. Poor support, poor roadmap plans for kinect one. Since its being removed from the bundle which ms previously said that kinect is the future and the xbox can't exist without the kinect. Doesn't seem so now.

Btw why does a microsoft device guy need to use lightwave, modo, c4d, and a whole bunch of other 3d appz? I'm really curious. :devil:


Read the links above? Yeah, had a real good laugh. Since it's removed from the bundle, which is exactly what the users and customers have been asking for! Hmnn, such a thing, responding to customer demands giving them the Xbox One without forcing the Kinect on them, lowering the base price for those not wanting it. This was a point where the consumers and industry was previously bashing MS over the head about. And now, it is a bad thing to do??

Who cares why a Microsoft Device guy uses LW, Modo, C4D as well as other Apps? You got a problem with it? Probably most users have at least 3 Apps. Heck, if you try to use the Lightwave Products as needed, that is what?

About 4 Apps itself or so? Modeler, Layout, Hub, Chronosculpt, Nevronmotion with the users still needed to add LWCad to do proper Archviz and higher leveled modelling, and other CA Tools (Rhigget Pro, Messiah) to do Character Animation.

jwiede
10-26-2014, 03:11 AM
Who cares why a Microsoft Device guy uses LW, Modo, C4D as well as other Apps? You got a problem with it?

Exactly so. I have zero interest in answering rude inquiries from someone I don't know in the least.

CaptainMarlowe
10-26-2014, 03:38 AM
Exactly so. I have zero interest in answering rude inquiries from someone I don't know in the least.

When the real question should be : how come a Microsoft Device guy uses a Mac Pro to run Lightwave ?
Just kiddin' of course.

spherical
10-26-2014, 04:34 PM
Who cares why a Microsoft Device guy uses LW, Modo, C4D as well as other Apps? You got a problem with it? Probably most users have at least 3 Apps.

Just did a count of both 32-bit and 64-bit, eliminating apps that have both and multiple versions of an app, and my 3D application directory trees number 63.

Greenlaw
10-27-2014, 01:38 AM
Yeah, it's nuts here too. My primary programs in day-to-day operations is Lightwave, Photoshop, Fusion, After Effects, iPi Mocap Studio, Motion Builder, Anime Studio Pro, Vegas, 3D Coat, Shadermap, Storyboard Pro, and Procreate (on iPad). And that's just covers vfx and animation production. After that, I wouldn't know where to stop counting--the list of programs I actually use for work grows weekly. I have some apps I haven't touched in years and then suddenly they become absolute lifesavers on a job.

G.

lightscape
11-06-2014, 09:10 PM
Exactly so. I have zero interest in answering rude inquiries from someone I don't know in the least.

Its not a rude question. Its a serious question because you're very opinionated of lightwave negatively I might add. You have nothing good to say about lightwave in most of your posts. But you have nothing to show for it and nothing on google either about your 3d work. So your negative opinions about lightwave come from thin air.




Death of kinect, soon death of Ipi.

http://forum.ipisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9196&start=10

jburford
11-09-2014, 03:44 PM
Interesting, from your link in regards to Death of Kinect, I do not read anywhere showing that MicroSoft has EOL'd Kinect v2. And, have not found any posts anywhere from MicroSoft or linking to or through showing that Kinect is EOL or has been killed by MicroSoft. I believe that most assumed that it would be EOL'd when MicroSoft stopped forcing the Bundle with the Xbox One.

Could you please show the MicroSoft Press Release or pages/information backing up that the Kinect V2 is EOL?

The only thing I could actually get close to is the following link where Prime Sense is talking about their Life after MicroSoft. Since MS went with other developments with the Kinect 2 as opposed to going with Prime Sense.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/21/life-after-kinect-primesense-post-microsoft/


Even odder, if MicroSoft killed the Kinect, why would they have Hosted this Event through Computer Visionaries for the Kinect? (July 2014)

Computer Vision - Dallas presents Computer Visionaries 2014, a Kinect Hack-a-thon sponsored by Microsoft.

Don't have a Kinect? No problem! Kinects will be provided. Do you have a burning desire to shape the future of computing? Are you into bleeding edge technologies? Will you dedicate two days to build world changing technology, here in Dallas? If the answer is yes... you or your team could win up to $1,500 in cash and prizes including Kinect v2 Sensors!

http://www.computervisionaries.org/


So, please back up your claim with facts!

Cheers