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prometheus
10-21-2014, 04:20 PM
Hi folks!

Is there a polyline to polymesh/polytube plugin somewhere?

I have been experimenting with polylines by either copy edges and paste to another layer from some geometry to get polylines(fiberfx strandmaker works too) and also doing some tree and root stuff with the line mode from dpont verdure.

now I am using this to create complex skeleton (polyline structures) and I deform those in different ways with twisting or moving as I want the structure to be, also using heatshrink to wrap on deformed geometry.
I then use convert polylines to metaedges and then freezing it and reduce poly and merge triangles to get a cleaner quad mesh.

unfortunatly if I want to create a root structure to follow deformed geometry..there is no problem with heatshrink and deforming the polylines over that geometry, but when I convert to metaedges.. one always have to rezise the polylines to get the metaedges blend properly and that will screw up the proper size wrap around the geometry.

so I would really like to get my hands on some tool that can create polytubes or mesh from such polylines in a better way than metaedges does, and it needs to be able to join the mesh or tube where polylines intersect.

Michael

ivanze
10-21-2014, 04:38 PM
I am not sure if this is what you want, but the link is not working anymore to download it. It is for Modeler 32 bit.

https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/truss2/

This is the video of the tool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMLs9-tJTu8

erikals
10-21-2014, 04:44 PM
bit difficult to visualize what you are doing, but did you try the Tube Point Chain plugin ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2q3O-6s8O8


...or alternatively Truss as ivanze mentions...

gerry_g
10-21-2014, 05:05 PM
Maybe not exactly the thing but render lines with negative value as in this old LW tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fYdgZDYXE8

prometheus
10-21-2014, 05:19 PM
None of the methods you guys are showing will do it...truss do not work on polylines, and it also donīt connect the truss pieces.
render lines are out of the question..I am using polylines as some sort of zbrush modeling tool, but in lightwave with metaedges...and I want model stuff in case I want to 3d print something.
Tube point polychain I donīt think will work..since it will not join multi polychains.

why I use polylines?...well they are so easy to create either by selecting dedicated edges from geometry copy and paste to another layer and they will be polylines..if I twist them or move them I can with metaedges see how the mesh will look roughly when I move the points in the polylines in wireframe and in other shaded viewport I can see the metamesh update and blend as I move the points.

It is not only to do root stuff I want this..if the lightwave team would have developed metaedges and metaballs better, it would be similar to zbrush skinning with adaptive mesh, as it is now it works decently for organic structures where I can move or twist the polylines in some cool ways and then convert ot metaedges, freeze it to a mesh and then reduce polys and merge triīs to get a cleaner quad mesh.
If I want it to be symmetrical I could import to sculptris and activate symmetry and it will automaticly remove unzymmetrical parts.

But it would be awesome if they could work on that metaedges to be better in terms of a new way to skin it, basicly it could be some sort of interactive tool like verdure where you can edit the line skelegon and extend pointīs or move it and have another viewport update with subpatches properly, that is something you can not do though with dpont verdure...itīs only workable through the parameters and no point manual editing and you can not pick up any polylines that are premade.

If I get the time I will do a recording of the process working with polylines and metaedges to create fast meshes, the problem is there though when I want the polylines that is converted to a mesh that will wrap around background geometry...since polylines always need to be rescaled if you convert them to metaedges..by default the metaedges are always huge and initiates in a blob mess until you rescale the polylines.

working with polylines and some sort of adaptive skin and being able to also cut polylines or add points to them and extend points polylines..that would be some sort of competitor for zbrush metasphere creation tools(at least for that style of creation part)

erikals
10-21-2014, 05:23 PM
Tube point polychain I donīt think will work..since it will not join muliti polychains.
correct, after operation, one would have to use metamesh http://www.3rdpowers.com/index_store.html

prometheus
10-21-2014, 05:30 PM
correct, after operation, one would have to use metamesh http://www.3rdpowers.com/index_store.html

Yeah..I need to get me that plugin someday, really think it will help out for organic modeling definitly-
seems like some sort of underlying technique might be able to work with polyline creation so that it also creates a mesh while drawing polylines and editing them, and also fusing them together.
It is however a distraction from effective modeling workflow if one have to use metamesh afterwards, just as using metaedges and freezing and reduce polys and merge tris are.

prometheus
10-21-2014, 05:42 PM
the base modeling workflow principle is this...
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144012-Tip-of-the-day-using-linepen-edges-to-metaedges-zbrush-similar-sculptris-zymmetry

I will do a recording of it to showcase it better, this doesnīt do the idea any justice until you see it in action properly.

if you draw out a polyface with some divisions and have symmetry on and in Edge mode select left or right side polyline structure in the form of legs and body skelegons..you could create base figure shapes in a few seconds when you copy and paste edges to another layer so they converts to polylines..then convert to metaedge mesh.

You can actually also use skelegons in modeler to draw out main shape and then convert to metaedge mesh.

why would anyone do this..instead of using magic bevel or tweak or extending polyfaces? well...you can edit the polylines as you se fit to change the form without distorting polyfaces, you can do that when working with magic bevel or tweaking polyfaces..those are then already set and not opted to tweak further in the same way.

raw-m
10-22-2014, 06:43 AM
Would LWCADs Profiler help you out?

prometheus
10-22-2014, 09:10 AM
Would LWCADs Profiler help you out?

nope...it doesnīt work that way, try out working with polylines and metaedges and edit them and you might see what I mean, profiler curve only works on single(i think) curves and you canīt deform the curve after you have dropped the tool and at the same time see the mesh update the way it works with polylines, with polylines and metaedges you get visual feedback while working on complex skelegon structure and the mesh fuses together with metamesh..even if I have multilimbs skelegon structure..lw cad profiler canīt do that.

And as I mentioned, by copy and pasting edges, one can select complex structure or a figure structure in seconds, you canīt do that either with lw cad.
I will try and post a recording soon within some hours..got to visit my old dad first and have some chat.

Sensei
10-25-2014, 10:02 AM
EasySpline (http://www.easyspline.com)doesn't need freezing, at least until Freeze Splines.
See Extend Spline video tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnjPNl4wVSs

Imagine you will make circle (using sphere in one viewport) (it will be profile). Convert it to spline. Then extend, and spline patches will appear... And you will have long spline cage with pipe.
Similar to what you need?

raw-m
10-25-2014, 12:30 PM
EasySpline has some fantastic tools, Sensei, but find it really hard to get my heard around a lot of them. I think yours sales would benefit hugely if you were to do a spoken commentary tutorial series. Workflow is hard to follow as they currently are, which is a shame as they deserve more exposure.

prometheus
10-25-2014, 01:15 PM
EasySpline (http://www.easyspline.com)doesn't need freezing, at least until Freeze Splines.
See Extend Spline video tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnjPNl4wVSs

Imagine you will make circle (using sphere in one viewport) (it will be profile). Convert it to spline. Then extend, and spline patches will appear... And you will have long spline cage with pipe.
Similar to what you need?

No unfortunatly not sensei..easyspline seems great for other stuff, but I want to create polys from polylines in the same way as they are created with conversion to metaedges...except it shouldnīt make a mesh full of triangles and having to reduce it, it should simply make polytubes with much cleaner skin than what currently can be done with metaedges, and it also needs to fuse the tubes in the same manner metaedges blend together with points are intersecting. your tool is probably great for patching, but you canīt create a mesh from polylines the way I want it too.

This is the rough way of creating a mesh from polylines, I so wish the lightwave team to do something about metaballs and metaedges and implement a realtime adaptive skin..sort of like in zbrush, but it will be fine working on polylines as a starter..just get a realtime adaptive quad skinner so to speak, moving,dragging and extending points will help making the modeling process quite easy after that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVvHeAu90TU



Michael

Sensei
10-25-2014, 01:17 PM
I think yours sales would benefit hugely if you were to do a spoken commentary tutorial series.

I don't think so, unless everybody will learn Polish in the meantime.. ;)
You should have many girls around in London that should encourage you to do so..

Sensei
10-25-2014, 01:56 PM
No unfortunatly not sensei..easyspline seems great for other stuff, but I want to create polys from polylines in the same way as they are created with conversion to metaedges...except it shouldnīt make a mesh full of triangles and having to reduce it, it should simply make polytubes with much cleaner skin than what currently can be done with metaedges, and it also needs to fuse the tubes in the same manner metaedges blend together with points are intersecting.

I have no idea why anyone want to work with metaballs and metaedges.. It's such a crap.
Select 2 point poly, press Convert to Metaedge, it's made, then click Convert to Metaedge again (accidentally!) and it's converting AGAIN?! WTF?!

I can go on, and on, how badly they behave..



your tool is probably great for patching,

Have you seen video?

Patching is in native LW.. Have to select points, and patch, and mesh is generated... And done. Nothing can be further done.

In EasySpline you can f.e. draw curve with Sketch, select it, Extrude Spline.. or Lathe Spline.. and there is real-time patch. It's life. Flying and updating while you're moving curve, or moving points on curve.. Like you said - life skin.

Suppose so you have mesh in bg layer. You draw couple curves on top of it. Then press Push tool to project points to that bg mesh geometry. Points are now "snapped to surface of bg layer". Then you connect end points on curves, and EasySpline is generating missing geometry (virtual for now), that's flowing like your bg layer mesh. (but that's example of retopology)



This is the rough way of creating a mesh from polylines, I so wish the lightwave team to do something about metaballs and metaedges and implement a realtime adaptive skin..

First, they should fix them ;)
In 5 minutes of play I made them to completely not working.. Have to restart Modeler..

So your main problem is quality of generated by metaballs geometry?
Why do you want to reduce points? It's XXI century. Planning to run it on mobile phone 3d real-time game?
My chess game has 1 mln poly. And it's running >30 fps on my "ancient" gfx card.. IIRC >50 mln poly per second in test rendered.
I wouldn't bother optimizing them. Figures have to look good, smooth.

prometheus
10-25-2014, 02:15 PM
I have no idea why anyone want to work with metaballs and metaedges.. It's such a crap.
Select 2 point poly, press Convert to Metaedge, it's made, then click Convert to Metaedge again (accidentally!) and it's converting AGAIN?! WTF?!

I can go on, and on, how badly they behave..




Have you seen video?

Patching is in native LW.. Have to select points, and patch, and mesh is generated... And done. Nothing can be further done.

In EasySpline you can f.e. draw curve with Sketch, select it, Extrude Spline.. or Lathe Spline.. and there is real-time patch. It's life. Flying and updating while you're moving curve, or moving points on curve.. Like you said - life skin.

Suppose so you have mesh in bg layer. You draw couple curves on top of it. Then press Push tool to project points to that bg mesh geometry. Points are now "snapped to surface of bg layer". Then you connect end points on curves, and EasySpline is generating missing geometry (virtual for now), that's flowing like your bg layer mesh. (but that's example of retopology)



First, they should fix them ;)
In 5 minutes of play I made them to completely not working.. Have to restart Modeler..


hold your horses now Sensei:)

sure it is sort of ..crap, but that is also why I asked about polylines to tubes to get a faster cleaner geometry.

I have no big issue with them like you, I just wish they were implemented better, as you can see from my video, itīs quite easy to create main shape of a figure or organic stuff, except for that you need to resize them, and freeze and reduce polys and
make them quat..and further more fix symmetry in sculptris...so yeah..why would someone work with metaedges..well you canīt edit any curve/polylines and deform it with vortex tools in any other way than doing it with metaedges..thus there are
potentional power behind it that needs to be unleashed, for some organic structure and even rocks ..this technique can work out decently.

I have seen your videos, but nothing in there resembles what I am looking for..and yes I know about spline patching in lightwave and using cm loft and usinc c_worm etc...to create stuff..but neither any of that or what you have can work with polylines as a construction skelegon for the figures where a mesh
is generated from it.

With your easy spline and other tools that goes patching, it is necessary to work with lofting style between curves...and that isnīt following the polyline skelegon structure in the process...if you can work with polines or curves
in a similar fashion as I do with metaedges and polylines..please notify me and showcase it in a video :)

Imagine working with dpont verdure in line mode and at the same time have it in subpatch mode in another layer or viewport, and fully editable with all modeling tools in lightwave and it is more like what I would want.
not just for tree but being able to draw out any line and extend or cut them and inluencing the "adaptive skin"in realtime.


Michael

prometheus
10-25-2014, 02:36 PM
In EasySpline you can f.e. draw curve with Sketch, select it, Extrude Spline.. or Lathe Spline.. and there is real-time patch. It's life. Flying and updating while you're moving curve, or moving points on curve.. Like you said - life skin.






So your main problem is quality of generated by metaballs geometry?
Why do you want to reduce points? It's XXI century. Planning to run it on mobile phone 3d real-time game?
My chess game has 1 mln poly. And it's running >30 fps on my "ancient" gfx card.. IIRC >50 mln poly per second in test rendered.
I wouldn't bother optimizing them. Figures have to look good, smooth.



your curves can not life skin in the way I want..that is to extrude along itīs spline or polylines direction, and also doing so with multicurves where a life editable skin is blending between two intersecting curves..your tools do not skin and flow along a polygon or curve skelegon topolygy in the way I am showcasing with polylines..only the other way around, yes I understand your easyspline is life and editable for skinning and they are powerful, but itīs Not similar in workflow to as working with zbrush metasphereīs...my showcase of polylines and metaedges are somewhat similar to zbrush..though quite a long way from it as it is implemented today.


why should I not opting for a cleaner mesh? (So your main problem is quality of generated by metaballs geometry?
Why do you want to reduce points? It's XXI century. Planning to run it on mobile phone 3d real-time game?) this i HAVE No understanding why you bring that up?


if I want lower mesh resolution and have that as a base to further model something..why on earth would I keep that dense triangulated mesh that comes from metaedges upon freezing?

Ohh...and I donīt play games :)

prometheus
10-25-2014, 02:44 PM
hereīs another one...a simple box with a few divisions, used strandmaker to make them polylines in a second layer, but one can just as easy just select the box all edges in edge mode and copy and paste which turn them to polylines.

twisting to get a dna like structure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf4wM-UFaQA&list=UUDxRvcWi0V7RgW69O5Ax5Og

Greenlaw
10-25-2014, 05:10 PM
I picked up this neat trick a while back from a William Vaughan video:

125219

For polygons you enabled Render Lines in the surface and enter a negative value. For two-point polygon chains, you enter a negative value in Particle/Line Thickness. It's a render trick but the neat thing is that the 'pipes' accept lighting as if they actually had volume.

I don't have a link for the video but I'm sure it's still floating around.

G.

Greenlaw
10-25-2014, 05:13 PM
Whoops...I must have grabbed the wrong panel for the single point polygon chain. The correct value for the panel on the right should be: -0.1 m.

G.

prometheus
10-25-2014, 05:17 PM
yes I know about all that Greenlaw...but it is out of the question since I want to use this technique for modeling and further tweakings in modeler, all kinds of things..could be for printing, could be to create rock, or stalagmite pillars..I also like to inflate the model afterwards
by using point normal move to either thin the structure or inflate it, also would like to use weight map/textured pointmap to scale certain parts with a weight falloff etc.
and itīs a bit important to see the "skin" while moving and dragging points in the polylines so you can get some rough idea on how the mesh fuses together when you move a point closer to an edge.

one could of course work with zbrush, but there are modeling tools and ways in lightwave that I prefer.

I can get similar structures (not with truss since those are unconnected segments) with topmod, but you have no way of controlling it live as you can with polylines and metaedges to some degree.

Michael

prometheus
10-26-2014, 03:27 PM
After fiddling some more with metaedges, I found out that I of course need to select them in polymode or select them in numeric panel as metaedges, only then they are available for editing of the size and setting of the overall radius, previously I scaled all of the polylines to adjust the radius of the metamesh, which of course was the wrong way to go about it when I wanted the polylines to have the same size as they were when wrapped around geometry, so now when I am on the right track, this now allows for heatshrinking of curves or polylines around a mesh, tree roots or branches clinging around other brances or around stones etc and maintaining the original wrap...I will have to try it some more though.

I can either control overall metaedge size in the numeric panel, or select only certain points or polys and only edit those and with individual handles to actually also move the polyhandles or scale the end knots.

It is still .."almost crap" as sensei mentioned ...But I am not so hard to judge though:) and careful to say that, it could be a fantastic modeling tool with some enhancements as I mentioned before.




http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125223&d=1414358779


125223

Greenlaw
10-26-2014, 03:39 PM
yes I know about all that Greenlaw...

Oh, duh, I just realized that the video was already posted earlier in this thread. Nevermind. At least I have the link for it now. :p

G.

erikals
10-26-2014, 09:24 PM
most times MetaBalls are bad, but sometimes they are nice, like Prometheus shows.

one can also mix them with procedurals >


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLHxYpQG1zw

erikals
10-26-2014, 09:28 PM
forum server double-post...

spherical
10-26-2014, 09:44 PM
Yup. Between 03:15 and 03:30 UTC/GMT, you may as well just go do something else. The forum server becomes generally unresponsive every day during this time period. Throbber just sits there churning. Trying to post often results in doubles, if it goes at all. Whenever there is no response, I look up and, sure enough, go make a sandwich.

erikals
10-26-2014, 10:02 PM
go make a sandwich

hehe, was gonna get some tea... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
10-27-2014, 06:33 AM
whatīs interesting with the use of metaedges, are the ability to create fast skeletons/structures that then turns in to meshes, and at the same time before freezing you can adjust it and se how the mesh will change along with the editing.

using platonic solid tools to create icosahedrons, use strandmaker to make them polylines in another layer and then run metaedges on them and you got a similar topmod generated mesh based on those edges, in lightwave otherwise you would have to bevel..and inset out the surfaces then delete inner surface then run thickener on it, and then metaform it to get similar shapes..and it might be the first choice, but otherwise using metaedges on polylines will work better.

cool that you can either heatshrink the polylines around stones or other branches and then extract out the mesh from the polylines so it maintains its shape but at the same time flowing in the poly line direction, rather than trying to manually bend and extrude and match around another object and also with the risc of deforming the geometry in a way you donīt want too.
Or you can use dynamics in layout to let it fall on to deformed ground and then save the transformed state of the polylines and make them a mesh in modeler later which then will follow the ground like roots.

when I use twist or other deformers on polylines...it will only deform the direction of the polyline structure and the metaedges will at the same time show you how the mesh will look like without being deformed in any other way than to follow and blend according to the edge structure.

basicly metaedges or draw metaedges is a very very poor mans zbrush metasphere tool.

As mentioned..if they decide to work on it, I donīt think it would be impossible..they could have a tool very very similar to zbrush metasphere, the first thing would be to make it fully edititable when you extend the edges or points or use cuts or add new polylines, as it is now you have to disable metaedges and do such changes before activating it again.
and the second step would be to have better skinning with live quad skinning and preferably without the need to freeze it afterwards.

metaedges only works on polylines..not curves, so using strandmaker is a must or draw polylines with the new polyline tool or simply copy those edges you want and paste to another layer and they will turn in to polylines.

prometheus
11-06-2014, 09:49 PM
To bad..it seems that there is no polyline to mesh tool, at least no one has hinted that and that is the conclusion I can make for now.

Hereīs a sample of polyline structure I would want to convert to mesh, metaedges works, but I really would like a clean quad skinned mesh.

topmod will not work with polylines.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125361&d=1415335718

125361

prometheus
12-04-2015, 08:51 AM
Still no tool that allows for the creation of at least tubes in itīs simplest form, created based on edges/polylines?

truss was out there..think itīs gone now..but itīs not that useful if the resulting mesh isnīt joint fused.
the tool must be able to use polylines, not just creating a wireframe truss from a closed object or so.
in principle sort of like dpontīs verdure tree plugin, except it should be able to pick up any kind of polyline creation and perform the meshing, I just havenīt seen any tool or solution for this.

if this could be done..it would open up a new level to the modeling process..for some nice structure modeling pieces.


the rendering tricks is out of the question, I want it for modeling volumes.

Sensei
12-04-2015, 09:19 AM
If you have edge (2 point poly), in Layout object properties adjust Edge Size to higher value, and "virtual mesh" will appear on edges...

prometheus
12-04-2015, 09:35 AM
If you have edge (2 point poly), in Layout object properties adjust Edge Size to higher value, and "virtual mesh" will appear on edges...

how is that able to make true geometry?
I think you didnīt read my post properly and what itīs all about..

"the rendering tricks is out of the question, I want it for modeling volumes. "

JoePoe
12-04-2015, 10:45 AM
How are you making your "object". Did you get your edges from a mesh, or can you make it out of polys in the first place?
If so, Blender can make a wireframe cage for you with it's Wireframe modifier.

Edit: With your particular object you're going to run into a crowding issue towards the middle, no matter what tool is used.... unless you go with your metaballz.

jeric_synergy
12-04-2015, 11:23 AM
If your original were a solid plate, but in that configuration, could you not use Chamfer to get the lines and intersections?

EDIT: Prom, please post that sunburst pattern so we can experiment on it.

prometheus
12-04-2015, 01:48 PM
If your original were a solid plate, but in that configuration, could you not use Chamfer to get the lines and intersections?

EDIT: Prom, please post that sunburst pattern so we can experiment on it.

Not
..at home..replying from a phone...
Working from a mesh is out of question. .It defeats the workflow process..working with poly lines and line pen is essential which allows for creating figures and structures in a way you can not do by trying to extract from a poly mesh. ..ergo my stubborn experiments with metadedges. .

...will look at the sunburst later

- - - Updated - - -

Chamfer is ruled out since I want it to work on skeleton polylines

JoePoe
12-04-2015, 01:54 PM
I think chamfer will give u some issues around the perimeter.

Also, was just playing in Blender with this. There's a tick box for Relative Thickness!! so the crowding issue might not be so bad!

JoePoe
12-04-2015, 02:53 PM
Not
..at home..replying from a phone...
Working from a mesh is out of question. .It defeats the workflow process..working with poly lines and line pen is essential which allows for creating figures and structures in a way you can not do by trying to extract from a poly mesh. ..ergo my stubborn experiments with metadedges. .

...will look at the sunburst later

- - - Updated - - -

Chamfer is ruled out since I want it to work on skeleton polylines


Okay.... so once you've constructed your design, stencil it onto a poly. Then you have all these options :jam:.

131332

prometheus
12-04-2015, 04:01 PM
How are you making your "object". Did you get your edges from a mesh, or can you make it out of polys in the first place?
If so, Blender can make a wireframe cage for you with it's Wireframe modifier.


Edit: With your particular object you're going to run into a crowding issue towards the middle, no matter what tool is used.... unless you go with your metaballz.


I didnīt get my edges from anything(well from samples before I did..but that isnīt related to my latest questions)..we need to split what I am asking for from what I have showcased primary before.
I now I can project and chamfer stuff, as you showcased and from my samples above with the sunburst you can do that..however, that is not the object target or purpose of my request for a polyline thicken tool.


Okay.... so once you've constructed your design, stencil it onto a poly. Then you have all these options :jam:.

131332

yes works in some cases as this, but not for creating advanced branches or creating a figure rig, there is no way around it..do not get fixed on samples above, itīs like thinking or suggesting you could run dp verdure tree in line mode, and project it to geometry or try with chamfer on it to create thickness to the tree, that you can not do.

Thereīs no way around it, the only thing close to the work process it is not metaballs ..itīs metaedges as I have shown, or use truss then merge the segments with booleans.
David Ikeda was on his way of implementing my feature request..at least for his own app, then I couldnīt find the samples anywhere.

Check the very first seconds on the skeleton in this clip,(the second part with the circular object you could go with chamfer on a poly mesh..but not the first part that looks a bit like a figure) except that I would want a clean meshing without using metaedges, as long as metaedges is active I could also tweak the skeleton as I want and the metaedges adapts,...now
that wouldnīt be absolutly necessary, it might be sufficient with just a thickening/meshing of the polylines..but the joints needs to be fused and have at least a bit more divisions...thereīs is no way you can extract or chamfer out a mesh from my sample of this skeleton here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFA65euBtEY

prometheus
12-04-2015, 05:18 PM
try to make a mesh from these polylines, I actually just made a few simply branches with line pen, copied to a second layer then send it to layout and then instanced the second layer on the first layer, used nodes for rotation variations, used python baking of instances and loaded as one object back to modeler, converted to metaedges, freezed and polyreduced and cleaned up then metaform to get better divisions.

first layer are the polylines, second layer is the result...check attached object file if you want to, try to make a mesh from that polyline structure in the first layer.

131336 131337

unfortunatly ..mesh results of metaedges are to dense overall and not very uniform, and you canīt use to complex polyline structures either, it would require an enourmous amount of metaedge/ball resolution that most machines cant deal with...that is why I want a mesh system similar to maybe houdini lsystem, or dpontīs verdure style of tree branching.
Donīt suggest me to just use verdure, thatīs a completly different thing where you can not control edges and structures exactly as you want.

jeric_synergy
12-04-2015, 06:41 PM
Okay.... so once you've constructed your design, stencil it onto a poly. Then you have all these options :jam:.
131332
That was pretty much my point. 8~ :P

JP, did you recreate the sunburst yourself? ( I don't see it above.) If so, how? And did you use Blender as implied, or was this all LWM?

Prom, I suggest you characterize the exact workflow you'd like, and commission a plugin. Pay Denis to whip it up.

prometheus
12-05-2015, 04:23 AM
That was pretty much my point. 8~ :P

JP, did you recreate the sunburst yourself? ( I don't see it above.) If so, how? And did you use Blender as implied, or was this all LWM?

Prom, I suggest you characterize the exact workflow you'd like, and commission a plugin. Pay Denis to whip it up.

Have forgotten the process of getting the sunburst structure..would have to work it again.

regarding the workflow of polylines to mesh, sure could try askin dponīt if he think it could be possible, I am a bit surprised the workflow or what I want with this seem to be hard to understand and follow though..I thought it is very clear..to me it is anyway:D
you simple can not create figure structures or branches with polythickness from polylines without inventing this, or use metaedges, using other geometry to chamfer or stencil on or simply bevel modeling it..that is not
the way to go and defeats itīs purpose of being fast and simple to model advanced limbs, branches, structures like this.

you canīt go with other tools either like topmod.

jeric_synergy
12-05-2015, 09:37 AM
Money talks.

JoePoe
12-05-2015, 10:45 AM
JP, did you recreate the sunburst yourself? ( I don't see it above.) If so, how? And did you use Blender as implied, or was this all LWM?



Yes
See below
Blender for the cage.

"Sunburst":
Sixteen sixteen sided discs rotated (22.5° each) around the origin. 131343
Combined (Merge points) and stenciled onto a big poly. 131344
Opened up the middle a bit. (can be done before or after the stencil) 131345
Off to Blender.

prometheus
12-05-2015, 10:51 AM
Money talks.

Im sure if users would be able to see this kind of plugin being possible, users would probably put some money to it as well, then again I may have to look at david ikedas modeling app for it, seems it is there ...sort of.
then again not:D his main page is gone, and I hate following facebook when you donīt got facebook, also his app would probably be more expensive with the rest of the toolset you might not want just to get this function.

Might be best to send a mail to denis, and ask if he thinks it would be possible to approach this with similar tech behind verdure and polyline mode for branching ..but write a new tool that can pick up any premade polyline or edges structure.

Michael

prometheus
12-05-2015, 10:59 AM
Yes
See below
Blender for the cage.

"Sunburst":
Sixteen sixteen sided discs rotated (22.5° each) around the origin. 131343
Combined (Merge points) and stenciled onto a big poly. 131344
Opened up the middle a bit. (can be done before or after the stencil) 131345
Off to Blender.

yes..one way to do it, you could just use a circle, use f3 rest on ground so it isnīt centered, then use spin it 45 degree. and then stencil it.
weird ....I believe I did it with a different technique, but canīt for the life of me figure it out right now...but maybe not, but I need to sleep and it will come to me in my dreams someday :)

Edit..yep, 22.5 paste and copy every degree with spin it tool does it fine.
you can select the result in edge mode and chamfer it carefully, it works too, drop the tool, change selection mode to polygons, delete those polygons and you got the wireframe ready.
it might be overlapping of edges crowding as joe mentioned before..in the center.

sample image, just chamfered and deleted polygons, no stenciling.

131346

prometheus
12-05-2015, 11:23 AM
and thickened...

131347

prometheus
12-13-2015, 09:15 AM
By the way..regarding the starburst pattern creation, except for using spin it ..another way of creating it, you could simply ..

1. create the disc and center it.
2. go to duplicate/particle clone and run it as it is on itīs layer..voila, starburst pattern...it consists of several disc though, so you would need to stencil it on to a plate...Or, use bevel and create new surface, inset it slightly and pick one poly of the newly created inset, then selection entire surface ...cut the inset surface polygons delete original and paste back the inset surface polygons, now you got the starburst frame without the need of stenciling it...you would probably like to and need to merge points in the end.

3. scale it according to your showerroom hole in the floor, print it and you got a shower-room hair strainer..if the old one is broken :)

prometheus
12-25-2015, 12:52 PM
I have found the working workflow for it now, not perfect ..since that would require it working in lightwave and interactive.

Anyway..I am not sure if someone mentioned blender skin modifier before in some other thread?..that is the tool to use, so until I have learned working with curves or draw polylines in blender, I am doing the skeleton in lightwave..with line pen, or you could copy and paste edges, the images is showing it created with line pen in lightwave, export to obj, or activate the blender lwo import functions and it will work both ways.

Once in blender, just select the object and add the skin modifier, Voila instant thickness the way I was wishing a tool for lightwave should be, the thickening will respect the point joints and the results is perfect branching, you can edit the created line skeleton in blender ...just turn of skin modifier and edit the points, swich on the skin modifier again and the mesh will be reconstructed accordingly to the edited mesh changes.


Polylines created in lightwave with line pen...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131600&d=1451072796


imported to blender..with either obj, or lwo...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131601&d=1451072856

skin modifier applied in blender...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131602&d=1451072899


and subdiv catmull clark subdiv in blender, if you do not want smoothing, use subdiv simple...

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131603&d=1451072946

prometheus
12-28-2015, 05:24 PM
Bumping this thread again...I made two short vids of this..no sound, in the tips and tricks section..the topic is overlapping so here you go...

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?149278-Lightwave-skeleton-polyline-thicken-skinning-in-blender-mini-tut-%28no-sound%29&p=1460677#post1460677

jeric_synergy
12-28-2015, 09:20 PM
Can this modifier handle more than 2 branches?

prometheus
12-28-2015, 11:41 PM
Can this modifier handle more than 2 branches?

The branch can be how complex you want I think...in my samples I only showed polylines connected as one segment..with merged points, however if you make multi branches not connected to each other, only the first will be skinned..
But if you enter edit mode of the modifier and click on mark root..then it should work with multi segment branches.

this skin modifier is nice, since you can build figures based on the simples wireframe branching you create, then add subdiv modifier, apply it.maybe a smoother and a displacement to add thicken to it, apply all modifier and remove from modifier stack in order to be able to enter sculpt mode.
just learned how to sculpt in blender a bit..and use the dynotopo sculpt with hook brush, works the same as in sculptris and adds higher detail when setting the pixels low in value..very nice, but that is another topic I think.

what I still have to learn... is to add curves and polylines in the same way I can in lightwave..think it is easier in lightwave though, you got a grease pencil you can convert to polycurves, but those I do not know how to join in branching..and you can not convert with the skin tool, only make them filled poly curves with the curve settings.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131668&d=1451371276


131668



Michael

prometheus
12-29-2015, 12:05 AM
and yep...I tried with four segments of unconnected polylines..It works too, donīt know if there is a limit.

And more..
you can for instance make a box in lightwave. subdivide it with facet once, select the edges and copy edges, switch to poly mode and kill polys, then paste edges back..that will give you only polylines of the box edges.
save out to obj format..suggested size 10meter roughly (blender takes size in account when skinning)

run the skin modifier on it..and you will get a wireframe trussing...cool, now that isnīt necessary just for creating wireframe truss from geometry, you can use the wireframe modifier wich will do that on any geometry..but if you understand how you can copy and paste edges to use as polylines to send to blender for skinning to a mesh, you may understand the power behind the workflow.

jeric_synergy
12-29-2015, 12:59 AM
IIRC, one of the options of DPVerdure is to make a 'tree' that's just a skeleton. If such a skeleton were imported into blender etc etc would it work?

Also, to get a wire of anything in LWM I just use Standmaker+mergePoints.

The examples you're showing are frustratingly simplistic. Got anything more complex?

prometheus
12-29-2015, 12:45 PM
IIRC, one of the options of DPVerdure is to make a 'tree' that's just a skeleton. If such a skeleton were imported into blender etc etc would it work?

Also, to get a wire of anything in LWM I just use Standmaker+mergePoints.

The examples you're showing are frustratingly simplistic. Got anything more complex?

Dptree might work, just did a test, didnīt make the skin complete all the way, I may have to clean up the dptree lines, or run strandmaker on it, some of the top level branches worked, but not the stem..will have to look in to that.

more complex? if you can envision every way you can draw polylines with the line pen, or copy and paste structure branches and drag snap to end points ..twist them, extend point ends, copying edges from other geometric shapes, then you should be having an idea on how complex stuff you should be able to do.

will have to make some samples more complex then and show you..depends on what you define as complex or what you envision etc?

the strandmaker tool..yes, sure, way to go..but you can not use that for extracting selective edges in a certain pattern on a geometry, for that you can only extract it by selecting edges and copy and paste back after killing geometry.
You could of course run strandmaker on geometry and then delete edges, to roughen out those edges you want left, but that is a bit counter productive instead of selecting it in the pattern you want from scratch with copy edges.
so that is why it was a good thing to have modeler able to work with copy and paste edges and have them automaticly turned in to polylines, and the line pen helps very much too.
drawing spline curves or sketching...that you would want to run the strandmaker on though.



hereīs a sample of dptree not completly working..but I think it will be able to work properly if done right..will get back on that, but to keep in mind, dp tree skins the skelegon in a better way, skin modifier in blender will only skin it uniformly with too many divisions, and not as nice branch connections as dp tree does, on the other hand, you can only work with the tree in dp tree while itīs active, and with parameter changes, if you work with polylines you can design the branch structure fully exactly as you want, and you can pick it up and reuse in lightwave for additional branching later or deleting..and also in blender you can move editd the lines to deform it..and the meshing will adapt to the line skeleton without deforming any other polys.

the mesh is just skinned here, no subdiv modifier applied.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=131674&d=1451418043
131674

prometheus
12-29-2015, 01:01 PM
yep...running strandmaker helped, I still got a few places where the branching isnīt looking good..will have to look more in to it, but it skinned all the branches and the stem too this time.

one can for instance use dptree to create a tree branch, but flatten it on the ground, and mix with other dptree branches in skeleton mode, then heatshrink on rock, or ground, or use bullet dynamics to let it adapt to terrain or other items, save transformed and send to blender for skinning, ive done that first process with polylines before..and the only other way to get a mesh from such tweaked skeletons was to use metaballs.
Shouldnīt start with those again..haha, but blender does have a bit better metaballs that yields cleaner geometry than lightwave does after freezing.

for standard trees though..I would probably recommend just using dp tree, it gives optimized geometry where needed, branch bulge smoothing in a much better way than just running the skin modifier in blender...this workflow has other areas it might suit better for.
Additional note..blender has a tree addon (AP) it seems to be nice to get realistic pine tree styled trees..will have to look in to it more though.

131675

Michael