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View Full Version : I know lighwave can do this, but is it as easy and as fast?



SonicMotion
10-21-2014, 08:32 AM
Take a look at this:

https://vimeo.com/109490964

I'm sure we can do this in lightwave, can we do it as easily and as fast?

Surrealist.
10-21-2014, 08:51 AM
I think you just have to define what it is you want to accomplish first.

LighWave does not have those tools specifically. But depending on what you want to do, yeah there are lots of ways to add either dynamic behavior or fake it using procedural displacements. There are a number of different tricks depending on the outcome.

So "as easy and as fast" is going to depend on what you want. In some ways - depending on the need - maybe easier and faster.

But that is a great looking tool.

prometheus
10-21-2014, 09:42 AM
Take a look at this:

https://vimeo.com/109490964

I'm sure we can do this in lightwave, can we do it as easily and as fast?

No you canīt do it that easy and fast in Lightwave.

Maybe the only similar fast way would be to generate with dp_verdure and copy the tree skeleton to another layer and convert to bones, in layout convert to dynamic bones with ik booster and add some wind effect maybe.

Michael

erikals
10-21-2014, 01:44 PM
not as fast, but using a MetaCage on a tree in LightWave will look better than that C4D example,
the MetaCage will calculate fast too...

bazsa73
10-21-2014, 01:59 PM
Who cares if not. Doing quality stuff means treading the dangerous, hard path not the easy one.

prometheus
10-21-2014, 02:23 PM
not as fast, but using a MetaCage on a tree in LightWave will look better than that C4D example,
the MetaCage will calculate fast too...

just curious..how come you are sure it will look better?
the cinema4d sample is wind dynamics and it looks like the branches are reacting differently according to the wind, if you were to use metacage? wouldnīt that just treat the whole tree the same way ? just curious since I donīt have that plugin.

erikals
10-21-2014, 03:05 PM
because i saw pooby did it once over at cgtalk... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=5&t=277241&page=2&pp=15

raw-m
10-21-2014, 03:39 PM
Can't DP Spline Deformer or Spline Control with bones in the tree do this, with motion on the nodes to give a similar effect?

ncr100
10-21-2014, 06:02 PM
pooby <3

adk
10-21-2014, 07:16 PM
Ahh yes ... good old pooby :)

jwiede
10-21-2014, 08:40 PM
not as fast, but using a MetaCage on a tree in LightWave will look better than that C4D example,
the MetaCage will calculate fast too...

What makes you think it will look "better"? Shouldn't the goal be "look more realistic"?

Seeing as both the C4D method and the method Pooby describes are quite similar in terms of the way the dynamics are applied to the tree limbs, they should be quite similar in appearance.

Also, I seriously doubt that ClothFx will calculate dynamics for a tree of similar complexity in branching of limbs as the example faster than C4D.

erikals
10-21-2014, 11:00 PM
What makes you think it will look "better"? Shouldn't the goal be "look more realistic"?
excuse my english http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif


Also, I seriously doubt that ClothFx will calculate dynamics for a tree of similar complexity in branching of limbs as the example faster than C4D.
i didn't say that... i said "fast"

tyrot
10-22-2014, 03:35 AM
Fi' flabby:) (not quite there but instant)

erikals
10-22-2014, 04:49 AM
one can also replicate Flabby by using a procedural displacement map, but it takes a bit longer

i guess a tree deformation also could be driven by a procedural displacement softfx metacage, haven't tested that though.
(for superfast dynamics)

prometheus
10-22-2014, 09:18 AM
I believe that using wind dynamics on a polychain structure would be fast, if the actual tree geometry is fx_metalinked properly that should be good enough, you donīt want to run a full dynamics sim on the whole body only the polychain or bone skeleton.
Lack of such tool as verdure or lsystem creation in layout and lack of procedural modeling is probably preventing lightwave from being equally fast to set things up compared to cinemaFD.

Just as fast and easy...I donīt think so.
Imagine dpontīs verdure or some lsystem that creates the tree inside of layout, with the skelegon/line mode intact for further editing, and with auto metalinking to the treecage..then just switch on wind and bullet for the polylines or add displacements to it..and we have fast and easy creation of a tree swaying in the wind.

Michael

erikals
10-22-2014, 09:32 AM
just saying, personally i would use a metacage technique...

Surrealist.
10-22-2014, 04:03 PM
When you say metacage to you mean the meta link set up?

If so that would be very tricky on a lot of branches I think as the influence envelope is not something you can control the distance on. It would take some experimentation.

Or maybe you are referencing another plugin.

Lewis
10-22-2014, 04:52 PM
ok so what aobut when ther eis lot of trees (imagine forest with slight breeze/wind). what do you do then ? Metlaing every tree separately ? Instance that ? Woudl it still work if is instanced (wihtout baking). ?

Very interesting techniques and very easy in that video.

prometheus
10-22-2014, 05:37 PM
When you say metacage to you mean the meta link set up?

If so that would be very tricky on a lot of branches I think as the influence envelope is not something you can control the distance on. It would take some experimentation.

Or maybe you are referencing another plugin.
I think he isnīt refering to any form of metalinking, just teh metacage deformation with 3dpowers tools...I think?



ok so what aobut when ther eis lot of trees (imagine forest with slight breeze/wind). what do you do then ? Metlaing every tree separately ? Instance that ? Woudl it still work if is instanced (wihtout baking). ?

Very interesting techniques and very easy in that video.

best would be to make a couple of trees with variations, run the sim..mdd scan and instance those variations I guess.
I think it might work even if you instance a tree that is deformed on a polychain basis and deforming the tree geometry when it is metalinked, not entirely sure though, or simply mdd scan it...and then instance the trees...but as with all instances, having a forest sway naturally will be tricky...and might require dpontīs instancer instead to offset the mdd so they sway a little randomly..itīs the same issue as to get a large field of grass behave randomly when instanced and a simulated wind is to be done.

tyrot
10-22-2014, 05:58 PM
Fi's Flabby - the best way:) trust me on that.. different weight maps and lots of different noise settings....so easy... (just reminding once again:))

prometheus
10-22-2014, 06:07 PM
yepp...I tested, metalinking the tree mesh with polyline structure/skelegon and running a ripple displacement on the polylines and it works...also with instancing, so you donīt have to mdd scan it..but depending on that might be refered ..and especially if you need to offset it with dp instance.

so you could either use displacements on the polyline structure, or use wind dynamics or bullet or convert the polylines to bones and use ik booster and use bone dynamics with wind, or use old soft dynamics and the
wave functions in there maybe.

erikals
10-22-2014, 06:44 PM
I think he isnīt refering to any form of metalinking, just teh metacage deformation with 3dpowers tools...I think?
no http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif but yes, both softfx+metacage(metalink) and Cage Deformer+metacage should work

prometheus
10-22-2014, 07:47 PM
Fi's Flabby - the best way:) trust me on that.. different weight maps and lots of different noise settings....so easy... (just reminding once again:))


Thanks for the heads up on that, seem to be quite nice..have to test it more though, not quite realistic in the motions, but it might be if I learn the settings well.
it works both on the geometry as well as on polylines if you want that.
if one applies it on dp_verdure trees, I would recomend creating another weight map called wind affected, and make it linear 100% almost down to the root, using the alread made weight maps will only give motions on branches..in some cases you might only
need that for small wind ..but for heavy wind a new weightmap is probably the best to create, also lowering frequence so you donīt get wobbly rubber tentacles.

have tested both displacements on polylines, using clothf, using bullet soft body and metalinking it all to polylines, bullet deforming body made an interesting tree falling and hitting the ground quite nice, though I would like them some branches to break when hitting ground, so it might be better to use parts, but itīs tricky when you are not working on the main geometry and only on the polychain so to speak, so you would probably have to unweld or cut both the polylines as well as the main geometry.

Michael

prometheus
10-22-2014, 08:25 PM
And this is also worth following...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bliPxn5e7mM